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labubu-crazeAnd once again you completely miss my point - all people want is for you (I mean "you" who actively engage in the climate discourse on the side of the commonly accepted science) to acknowledge that perhaps our whole climate system is so complex that there is a chance that you could be wrong and that there is a 'small' possibility that climate science isn't as easy as 'your lifestyle is bad, therefore you need to uproot your entire life because 'Isay so'". You talk about anti-intellectualism? What seems anti-intellectual is not accepting that there are counter-arguments that could be valid
Get people on board with keeping their own backyards tidy and their neighbourhoods and you'll see a difference.
The counter arguments could be valid, but to take it as truth over what is generally accepted over nothing more than your own common sense or feelings takes away from people who are way more knowledgeable than you or I and what they believe to know. I'd trust them over some crack pot shit I read on the internet.
I pick up litter almost everyday on my commute home, I don't boast about it. I'd be cool with moving away from our current system. I'm down with green spaces, but let's not kid ourselves, a few extra parks aren't going to curb wildfires, prevent drought, or other natural disasters from occurring.
My go to argument on climate change is simply that it is a threat to national security. The us military has a 111 page document on the subject and they are probably the most right leaning branch of the government. So true or not in terms of causation, there are individuals and countries that will need the resources of north america. Why not do everything you can to prevent a potential war from breaking out? And the worst war on top of that, a war based on desperation.
labubu-crazeAnd once again you completely miss my point - all people want is for you (I mean "you" who actively engage in the climate discourse on the side of the commonly accepted science) to acknowledge that perhaps our whole climate system is so complex that there is a chance that you could be wrong and that there is a 'small' possibility that climate science isn't as easy as 'your lifestyle is bad, therefore you need to uproot your entire life because 'Isay so'". You talk about anti-intellectualism? What seems anti-intellectual is not accepting that there are counter-arguments that could be valid and you refuse to accept it under the guise of 'well he must be a quack, awe his feelings are hurt'. Thats why so many people go on about "Medieval Warm Period" or the "Little Ice Age".
I am 100% on bored with environmentalism - have you ever done an end of season lift walk to clean up the crap people drop from chairlifts? I think cleaning up pollution and opening more public greenspaces and greenscaping our cities is more important than the endless arguments about gasses when we don't even fully understand how our own Suns changing temperatures, or our planets position in orbit could affect climate.
Get people on board with keeping their own backyards tidy and their neighbourhoods and you'll see a difference.
I already explained this but although there's absolutely a chance that we are wrong about climate change and that our understanding of climate science is inherently flawed, that doesn’t mean we can rely on that small chance. And someone else said this, but regardless of climate change, we should be trying to clean up the air, water, and soil of our planet. So although there are counterarguments that might be true, the science says they probably aren’t. Better safe than sorry.
Nobody is arguing that the solution to climate change is strictly individuals completely changing their lifestyles, but changes made by individuals are part of the solution. This is an issue that will only be solved by collective effort, technological advance, and mostly by strong legislation and hard deadlines. That being said, I think it's valuable for individuals to be conscious of their personal environmental impacts, more so in terms of physical waste rather than CO2 emissions. But consumerism and our desire for convenience are a primary driver of the climate crisis.
I know this kind of goes back on what I said, but the fact is that part of the responsibility is on normal people to try and have a small environmental impact and to actively push for action from corporations and governments.
The more I think about it the more I realize that the only way we'll get anywhere is by large-scale change to consumption and lifestyle practices. For example, about 15 percent of emissions come from road-based passenger transportation. The solution to this is for normal people to push for better green public transport, better bike infrastructure, and to make an active effort to drive less and to drive vehicles that pollute less. Governments are not going to do anything unless the population pushes really hard, especially given the huge corporate power of the automotive industry.
Sorry for the rant and that wasn’t super well written but the point is that although no one is individually responsible for the issues as a whole, everyone is responsible for solving the issues because that is the only solution.
hell ya. At this point i'm just saying shit to make PARKINGLOTPISS kid mad and now it's too easy and no longer fun.
I'm tired of people only believing one point and any other point is wrong or false.
Don't forget about the Younger Dryas period as well. Mother Earth does what she wants.
labubu-crazeAnd once again you completely miss my point - all people want is for you (I mean "you" who actively engage in the climate discourse on the side of the commonly accepted science) to acknowledge that perhaps our whole climate system is so complex that there is a chance that you could be wrong and that there is a 'small' possibility that climate science isn't as easy as 'your lifestyle is bad, therefore you need to uproot your entire life because 'Isay so'". You talk about anti-intellectualism? What seems anti-intellectual is not accepting that there are counter-arguments that could be valid and you refuse to accept it under the guise of 'well he must be a quack, awe his feelings are hurt'. Thats why so many people go on about "Medieval Warm Period" or the "Little Ice Age".
I am 100% on bored with environmentalism - have you ever done an end of season lift walk to clean up the crap people drop from chairlifts? I think cleaning up pollution and opening more public greenspaces and greenscaping our cities is more important than the endless arguments about gasses when we don't even fully understand how our own Suns changing temperatures, or our planets position in orbit could affect climate.
Get people on board with keeping their own backyards tidy and their neighbourhoods and you'll see a difference.
VTshredder69hell ya. At this point i'm just saying shit to make PARKINGLOTPISS kid mad and now it's too easy and no longer fun.
I'm tired of people only believing one point and any other point is wrong or false.
Don't forget about the Younger Dryas period as well. Mother Earth does what she wants.
"I'm tired of people acting like only one perspective can ever be right, and anything else is automatically false."[/b]
But here’s the thing, if one side of an argument is backed by virtually every scientist and all available research, and the other side is just people denying it without any evidence, I’m not[/i] going to treat those sides as equally valid.
We should always acknowledge the possibility[/i] that widely accepted ideas could one day be proven wrong, that’s part of good science. But in the meantime, we should trust the experts and the evidence. That’s what critical thinking actually looks like.
500 years ago we thought the earth revolved around the earth. 600 years ago we thought the earth was flat. Now scientists are telling me i can't take a plane for vacation.
Trust the science. I heard that a lot in 2020. I think i'll use my own critical thinking instead.
ParkingLotPiss"I'm tired of people acting like only one perspective can ever be right, and anything else is automatically false."
But here’s the thing, if one side of an argument is backed by virtually every scientist and all available research, and the other side is just people denying it without any evidence, I’m not going to treat those sides as equally valid.
We should always acknowledge the possibility that widely accepted ideas could one day be proven wrong, that’s part of good science. But in the meantime, we should trust the experts and the evidence. That’s what critical thinking actually looks like.
**This post was edited on Jun 5th 2025 at 10:02:53pm
VTshredder69500 years ago we thought the earth revolved around the earth. 600 years ago we thought the earth was flat. Now scientists are telling me i can't take a plane for vacation.
**This post was edited on Jun 5th 2025 at 10:02:53pm
What's the point if China and India don't give a fuck about it though? USA can't do this alone.
ParkingLotPissSorry for the rant and that wasn’t super well written but the point is that although no one is individually responsible for the issues as a whole, everyone is responsible for solving the issues because that is the only solution.
abjectwoeIt's good to see that ICE kidnapped a 4th grader and they are holding him without providing an y information to his family or school.
I don't know how we would all survive if that criminal was left on the streets.
It's so fucked how ICE is doing this practice of asking for dismissal of a case, only to arrest people moments later in the fucking court (that just let them off) so that they can pursue expedited deportations. It is beyond unethical. Then their processes are not in place to adequately track and allow communication with those detained. There are clear moral, ethical and human rights violations occurring and history will not show this in a positive light.
Christian_BaleI think what you leave out here is the degree of consolidation that exists for a bunch of industries to the point where most people can't really make meaningful choices about who to buy from. Now I agree with personal responsibility, and I think it's to silly to solely blame corporations without examining lifestyle choices and whatnot. But look at the small amount companies in tech, agriculture, airlines, oil and gas, etc that dominate those markets.
Oh for sure. That's where the lobbying part of my comment comes into play, which facilitates achieving and maintaining that dominance. There's a reason they continue to get laws passed in their favor, projects approved, grants awarded, and mergers unquestioned for antitrust. Just look at Elon Musk. Bro literally contributed a quarter bil to get Trump elected for personal interests (more than doge saved 😭) and it worked because generally the candidate with the most funds wins (exception is Trump 2016).
The good news is ESG and CSR are gaining traction but it's gonna be a decade or two before we actually are all in on those ideas. The Maga movement is definitely putting a wrench into implementing those concepts by making them uncool and giving confidence to companies that not doing it is the better choice.
TOAST.Musk and Trump feud getting interesting, and by interesting I pretty much mean embarrassing.
It's bad, but no more embarrassing than shit they've been doing on a daily for the last decade. Of all the things going on in this nation and world right now, a quarrel between two immature "leaders" doesn't even make the top 10. Personally I'm happy Musk is at least speaking out about the hypocrisy in this atrocious bill. Far too many leaders with influence and power in this nation are too afraid to speak up about what is going on. They're complacent and don't want risk their fortunes, companies, or coveted executive leadership positions. What Musk did with doge was criminal but at least now he can try and speak out to fix some of this shit he helped set into motion.
I'm happy Harvard had some balls. I'm happy that one law firm had some balls. And now I'm happy Musk is returning to reality and also showing he isn't gonna get on his knees and suck Trump's chode.
VTshredder69500 years ago we thought the earth revolved around the earth. 600 years ago we thought the earth was flat. Now scientists are telling me i can't take a plane for vacation.
Trust the science. I heard that a lot in 2020. I think i'll use my own critical thinking instead.
**This post was edited on Jun 5th 2025 at 10:02:53pm
Why is your stupidity so annoying. It's almost impossible to not take the bait.
iH8powWhen do we kill this thread and start a thread just called TRUMP!! Election was a year ago
I do enjoy seeing Trump on his morning TV briefings. You hear nothing but constant Trump criticisms from friends and news which is deserved but I just like hearing words uncut from his mouth. He’s always good for a few laughs (20 mins ago he called Min Gov Tim Walz a pathetic little puppy lol). But at the same time he is actively threatening JPow to lower interest rates he still blames Biden for inflation. And he just took credit for the largest enlistment of military and police ever—it’s not patriotism, you ruined the economy. Funny how conservatives have been complaining about government spending and deep state but when they get the chance to make government bug to build their army of military and police they’re all for it
**This post was edited on Jun 5th 2025 at 12:23:46pm
Can just do it now and post a link lol. Or OP can change the name if they want
VTshredder69I'm glad Trump & musk are feuding. they shouldn't have been together in the first place.
Without Musk, Trump would have lost and congress would have been democrat led. People believed Musk was a super genius, grassroots billionaire. The very second he endorsed Trump, people swung right at elections.
Its the reason why fascist parties tend to fail: they think their way is best, until you flesh you the details. They find out their self interests are the most important and cant move forward due to internal rifts.
Meanwhile in the opposition party, crickets can be heard.
VTshredder69500 years ago we thought the earth revolved around the earth. 600 years ago we thought the earth was flat. Now scientists are telling me i can't take a plane for vacation.
Trust the science. I heard that a lot in 2020. I think i'll use my own critical thinking instead.
**This post was edited on Jun 5th 2025 at 10:02:53pm
Yeah we thought thoese things until scientist took a closer look and realized that wasnt the case. 100 years ago we thought we could thunderfuck the enviroemtn and it would majicaly self regualte and then scientist took a closer look and realized that was not the case.
I don't have the energy to get into a debate about the pandemic with someone like you. If you're not a medical professional, shut the fuck up. But I hope you know that countries that had more stringent prevention measures had lower death rates.
Then why did America have the highest deaths per capita and the most widely available vaccinations? You're clownin bro.
ParkingLotPissYeah we thought thoese things until scientist took a closer look and realized that wasnt the case. 100 years ago we thought we could thunderfuck the enviroemtn and it would majicaly self regualte and then scientist took a closer look and realized that was not the case.
I don't have the energy to get into a debate about the pandemic with someone like you. If you're not a medical professional, shut the fuck up. But I hope you know that countries that had more stringent prevention measures had lower death rates.
VTshredder69What's the point if China and India don't give a fuck about it though? USA can't do this alone.
This is just straight misinformation. Holy shit, use google, you fucking moron. It's so fucking easy, but you have all these preconceived notions in your tiny ass brain and don’t even stop to think if they're based in facts.
First off, China takes climate change very seriously. They are the biggest polluter in the world, which makes sense since they have the second largest population. But they are investing heavily in renewable energy and other green technology. They are global leaders in new green tech. China has a commitment to be completely carbon neutral by 2060, which probably isn’t soon enough, but I don’t know how it would happen any sooner given how much infrastructure they have to build or modify.
Secondly, India has a similar commitment to be net zero by 2070. India is one of the countries that would see the biggest effects of climate change, and they know it.
VTshredder69500 years ago we thought the earth revolved around the earth. 600 years ago we thought the earth was flat.
I agree with your point that the scientific consensus changes over time. But an interesting historical note: the Greeks were fully aware that the Earth was round over two thousand years ago, although most of them did think the Sun revolved around the Earth. Even in Medieval Europe most people thought it was round but there was a fringe minority who believed it was flat based on a certain passage in the old testament. I know it's not really relevant to this thread but it's interesting to me that even in the dark ages scholars did have access to classical texts and weren't as ignorant as most people probably think they were.
VTshredder69Then why did America have the highest deaths per capita and the most widely available vaccinations? You're clownin bro.
Holy shit. you are so stupid. Peru had the most deaths per capita ( USA was 14th). Also what do you mean highest avalbility. there were lots of countires where everyone could get vaccinated. But like i said statistiacly countires with more stigent measures (lockdowns, social distancing, altered buisness hours, etc) had fewer deaths.
look up oxford covid-19 government response tracker
I will say that in some cases countires with stricketer measures also saw greater ecomomic losses but i dont give shit, capitalism has trained us to measure succes with money and not longevity, health and happines.
ParkingLotPissHoly shit. you are so stupid. Peru had the most deaths per capita ( USA was 14th). Also what do you mean highest avalbility. there were lots of countires where everyone could get vaccinated. But like i said statistiacly countires with more stigent measures (lockdowns, social distancing, altered buisness hours, etc) had fewer deaths.
look up oxford covid-19 government response tracker
I will say that in some cases countires with stricketer measures also saw greater ecomomic losses but i dont give shit, capitalism has trained us to measure succes with money and not longevity, health and happines.
Pretty fucking pathetic for a first world country IMO. The fact that you're mentioning bolivia a third world country and comparing it to america doesn't tell you something?
abjectwoeHighest confirmed Covid-19 deaths != highest death rate per capita.
We were 18th globally in covid deaths per capita.
For context we had 303 per 100,000. Bolivia had 735.
And according to right-wingers hospitals were calling every death a covid death to get $$$.
So according to that logic, the 303 number is even lower.
Not saying Sweden's way to handle was bad when compared to the whole world, but looking at deaths it was the worst from the 4 comparable Countries (Nordic welfare states).
FakeKalmarNot saying Sweden's way to handle was bad when compared to the whole world, but looking at deaths it was the worst from the 4 comparable Countries (Nordic welfare states).
Actually fuck that graph. Countries calculated the deaths in different ways. Who da fuck makes a graph like that.
You're right, Sweden did alright despite having no lockdowns. That being said, in Sweden (and Scandinavia as a whole), people voluntarily stayed home when sick, practiced social distancing, and took precautions. They did not think COVID was not a big deal. Rather, they were able to trust their citizens to act responsibly.
It is worth noting that Sweden's death rate was about double that of Finland and Denmark, and about four times that of Norway. These countries implemented lockdowns and also have similar cultures of social responsibility and collective effort. Also, if we are just talking about death rates, it is worth mentioning that Sweden has an exceptional healthcare system.
I could just as easily point to a country with a high death rate and minimal safety measures. But across the board, on average, countries that took stronger precautions saw fewer deaths. Here's a study that backs this up. It was published in Nature, one of the world's most reputable and prestigious scientific journals. It has been rigorously peer reviewed:
VTshredder69Then why did America have the highest deaths per capita and the most widely available vaccinations? You're clownin bro.
Because of people like you. Misinformation breeding lack of trust and division and resistance against public health officials implicated their ability to effectively combat the virus. Also the US has one of the highest obesity rates in the world, which is a huge risk factor for dying from covid. The majority of covid deaths were in people either with risk factors and/or those unvaccinated. Come on man, let's not go back down this road again. I don't have the energy.
So healthy people who didn't get vaccinated were the cause? Covid was a 2 day cold for me but somehow i'm the bad guy for eating well and exercising?
I'll keep eating well and exercising and if I need big pharma i'll let you know
Crazy how our healthcare system shuns the people who are actually the healthy ones.
I'd rather not go down this road either. We just see things differently and that is what makes America.
HypeBeastBecause of people like you. Misinformation breeding lack of trust and division and resistance against public health officials implicated their ability to effectively combat the virus. Also the US has one of the highest obesity rates in the world, which is a huge risk factor for dying from covid. The majority of covid deaths were in people either with risk factors and/or those unvaccinated. Come on man, let's not go back down this road again. I don't have the energy.
VTshredder69So healthy people who didn't get vaccinated were the cause? Covid was a 2 day cold for me but somehow i'm the bad guy for eating well and exercising?
I'll keep eating well and exercising and if I need big pharma i'll let you know
Crazy how our healthcare system shuns the people who are actually the healthy ones.
I'd rather not go down this road either. We just see things differently and that is what makes America.
Prime example of Republican argument style: twist what the other person said and victimize yourself
VTshredder69So healthy people who didn't get vaccinated were the cause? Covid was a 2 day cold for me but somehow i'm the bad guy for eating well and exercising?
I'll keep eating well and exercising and if I need big pharma i'll let you know
Crazy how our healthcare system shuns the people who are actually the healthy ones.
I'd rather not go down this road either. We just see things differently and that is what makes America.
No the misinformation campaign that you're still propagating is the main point
