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VTshredder69Last time I checked the president can't pass laws on his own. That would be done by the House and Senate. You've personally let Trump into your head and that's no ones fault but your own.
what a stupid response.
Sure, the president can’t unilaterally pass laws, no one’s arguing that. But to pretend the presidency isn’t incredibly powerful is just willful ignorance. Executive orders, foreign policy, Supreme Court appointments, federal agency leadership, national emergencies. These all of these have massive, lasting impacts. If you think it's irrational to care about who's in that position, you're not paying attention.
i say things that piss you off on purpose. You say stupid things but want to be taken seriously. I'm amused
ParkingLotPisswhat a stupid response.
Sure, the president can’t unilaterally pass laws, no one’s arguing that. But to pretend the presidency isn’t incredibly powerful is just willful ignorance. Executive orders, foreign policy, Supreme Court appointments, federal agency leadership, national emergencies. These all of these have massive, lasting impacts. If you think it's irrational to care about who's in that position, you're not paying attention.
VTshredder69Must be working then because you reply to every one of my posts lmao. I'm the unintelligent one though according to you.
Well yeah, you try to be provocative, but I assume that what you say is rooted in your beliefs (if it isn’t, that’s just a depressing waste of your time). So although you may embellish or exaggerate a bit, you're still wildly misinformed about geopolitical relations, economics, civil rights, general empathy, critical thinking, democratic systems, etc.
I guess I'm a bit of a sucker, but I just can’t help pointing out these flaws. I don’t really think I’m going to convince you of everything (given the whole poor critical thinking skills thing), but I think it’s telling that every little exchange we have follows the same pattern:
You say something based on misinformation or without actually thinking through the full implications.
I point it out.
You either change the subject or resort to personal attacks.
You’ve decided on a set of beliefs without thinking them through, and now you're vaguely aware that your thinking was flawed but you can’t swallow your pride and admit it, so you say stuff like “I’m just trying to make you mad.”
BiffbarfWack. Idk why so many places are so interested in enabling illegal immigration.
I mean first off, these are human lives, let's not forget that. Yes they illegally entered the country or overstayed a visa but they are still humans who have more than likely been through some shit and trying to make a better life for there families.
Since these people are in communities already, it is safer for everyone if these people can trust local officials and can go to them with issues.
Not only that but when you start using local resources to round people up you are going to almost certainly lose trust of some legal immigrants.
I think most people are down with deporting illegal immigrants that have committed non immigration related crimes, but start to lose people when it starts to affect otherwise lawabiding people.
Our country has turned a blind eye and used these people as a source of cheap labor for decades, both legally and illegally. In my opinion try to get a handle on new immigrants coming in but get the ones that have been here for years or brought here as children a path to citizenship.
TOAST.I mean first off, these are human lives, let's not forget that. Yes they illegally entered the country or overstayed a visa but they are still humans who have more than likely been through some shit and trying to make a better life for there families.
Since these people are in communities already, it is safer for everyone if these people can trust local officials and can go to them with issues.
Not only that but when you start using local resources to round people up you are going to almost certainly lose trust of some legal immigrants.
I think most people are down with deporting illegal immigrants that have committed non immigration related crimes, but start to lose people when it starts to affect otherwise lawabiding people.
Our country has turned a blind eye and used these people as a source of cheap labor for decades, both legally and illegally. In my opinion try to get a handle on new immigrants coming in but get the ones that have been here for years or brought here as children a path to citizenship.
It's not the fact that we are kicking out illegal immigrants that bothers me so much.
It's how we are treating children that didn't decide to come here in the first place that is truly terrible.
This also isn't a Trump specific thing, it happened under other presidents. People celebrating the abuse of these children is new though. Imagine being happy that a 9 year old was in chains.
It's just as bad as people that claim all the kids in Gaza should die. It's the same as people claiming that the Israeli kids being murdered is ok.
What the fuck is wrong with people? You can kick out every illegal in this country without treating children worse than cattle.
If you were like, "yea man its fucked those kids are treated like that, but it's good we are controlling illegal immigration" then I could find a way to stomach it, but really?
You're legitimately a bad person if you think children should be in chains, should be abused, or are ok with them dying.
who the fuck said we're putting children in chains abusing them or killing them lmfao.
Are you just assuming that's what happens in their country? Insanely and incorrectly judgmental.
abjectwoeI'm actually astounded by this response still.
If you were like, "yea man its fucked those kids are treated like that, but it's good we are controlling illegal immigration" then I could find a way to stomach it, but really?
You're legitimately a bad person if you think children should be in chains, should be abused, or are ok with them dying.
abjectwoeI'm actually astounded by this response still.
If you were like, "yea man its fucked those kids are treated like that, but it's good we are controlling illegal immigration" then I could find a way to stomach it, but really?
You're legitimately a bad person if you think children should be in chains, should be abused, or are ok with them dying.
Don't fucking tell me you are a pro-life person.
You're making an incredible amount of assumptions. I just decided not to acknowledge your particular appeal to emotion that was irrelevant whattaboutism to what I said in the first place.
'why do places tolerate illegal immigration'
'wHaTtAbOuT Da ChIlDrEn'
BiffbarfYou're making an incredible amount of assumptions. I just decided not to acknowledge your particular appeal to emotion that was irrelevant whattaboutism to what I said in the first place.
'why do places tolerate illegal immigration'
'wHaTtAbOuT Da ChIlDrEn'
Spare me
While he did make assumptions, you are lying about not wanting to acknowledge his point, otherwise you wouldn't quote him or make a post about it. But here we are, just ask the dude out already and you won't have to dismissively gesture all by your lonesome.
PoikenzWhile he did make assumptions, you are lying about not wanting to acknowledge his point, otherwise you wouldn't quote him or make a post about it. But here we are, just ask the dude out already and you won't have to dismissively gesture all by your lonesome.
When did I say I wanted to? I said 'i decided not to'
Y'all mf's need to read what I said and not what you want me to have said.
BiffbarfYou're making an incredible amount of assumptions. I just decided not to acknowledge your particular appeal to emotion that was irrelevant whattaboutism to what I said in the first place.
'why do places tolerate illegal immigration'
'wHaTtAbOuT Da ChIlDrEn'
Spare me
A big reason that places tolerate illegal immigration IS because people care about humans as a whole, not just those born in the US. So you can't really have this conversation without emotion.
The other would be as I previously mentioned is that having a population that trusts law enforcement is more likely to go to them with issues rather than dealing with it on their own and increasing the amount of crime in the community.
BiffbarfWhen did I say I wanted to? I said 'i decided not to'
Y'all mf's need to read what I said and not what you want me to have said.
He wrote a single sentence, a single complete thought as a reply to you.
You quoted that post and replied to it with a thought of your own.
To say that you decided not to acknowledge his point is contradictory to your response. The simple fact that you responded means that you acknowledged it.
Maybe you need to understand what you are saying before you say it.
I think overall, people need to think about illegal immigration with a bit more nuance. It's not as simple as "they came here illegally, kick them out." The truth is, American society relies on illegal immigrants. Estimates vary, but something like 20 to 40 percent of agricultural labor is done by undocumented immigrants.
The common response is that this is an example of "illegal immigrants taking jobs from American citizens," but that is not true. First off, I don't think you want to go pick strawberries in the California heat for 12 hours a day. Secondly, a lot of these workers are exploited by their employers because they are not here legally. They often get paid less than minimum wage and work in unsafe conditions. So the job they are doing is one that citizens are not eligible for in practice, because citizens have access to the justice system and nothing can be held over them.
It's true that there is a relationship between illegal immigration and crime. However, this goes back to the conservative notion that criminals are just morally corrupt people. In reality, nobody wants to be a criminal, but people turn to crime when they cannot find a way to put food on the table or a roof over their heads. I could write a whole essay about how capitalism drives crime, but just google countries with the lowest crime rates and countries with the most social programs, and you will find a lot of overlap.
The fact of the matter is, like it or not, illegal immigrants contribute significantly to the American economy. The solution is complicated, and it is definitely not as simple as deporting everyone.
We need a way to allow existing undocumented immigrants to gain citizenship. We need them, and without legal protection, their labor will continue to be exploited, which should not happen in the so-called land of the free. We also clearly need to make it easier for immigrants to gain citizenship legally. Above all else, we need equality so that people are not forced into crime to survive.
I have no patience for people who oppose social programs, public services, and public infrastructure. Countries that invest in those things have happier, healthier, and more educated people. It really is that simple.
VTshredder69who the fuck said we're putting children in chains abusing them or killing them lmfao. Insanely and incorrectly judgmental.
Fuck you.
"Between 2014 and 2018, over 4,500 cases of sexual abuse against unaccompanied detained migrant children were reported, many from facilities operated by private contractors."
"A 2014 complaint documented instances where children were reportedly shackled, subjected to inhumane detention conditions, and faced verbal, sexual, and physical abuse while in CBP custody."
"Whistleblowers and experts testified about the exploitation of unaccompanied children due to inadequate vetting of sponsors, leading to cases of forced labor and trafficking."
BiffbarfYou're making an incredible amount of assumptions. I just decided not to acknowledge your particular appeal to emotion that was irrelevant whattaboutism to what I said in the first place.
It's not whataboutism though.
If you were talking about illegal immigration and I said, "Well what about how Trump handles Israel/Palenstine?" that'd be deflecting from the topic of conversation.
I'm not saying that we don't fix US immigration. I'm saying that we need to immediately stop treating innocent kids like shit. They are being sexual assaulted, abused, tortured, and killed in some cases.
Just because their parents came here illegally doesn't mean we get to treat children in this fashion. What is it retribution? What the fuck did the kids do wrong exactly?
definitely sad. Can't imagine what horrors go on in their journey just to get to the border.
abjectwoeFuck you.
"Between 2014 and 2018, over 4,500 cases of sexual abuse against unaccompanied detained migrant children were reported, many from facilities operated by private contractors."
"A 2014 complaint documented instances where children were reportedly shackled, subjected to inhumane detention conditions, and faced verbal, sexual, and physical abuse while in CBP custody."
"Whistleblowers and experts testified about the exploitation of unaccompanied children due to inadequate vetting of sponsors, leading to cases of forced labor and trafficking."
The kids did nothing wrong. But Why are we more mad at the USA for mistreating a small percentage of kids and not more mad at the countries they're fleeing that mistreats and exploits pretty much all of them?
abjectwoeIt's not whataboutism though.
If you were talking about illegal immigration and I said, "Well what about how Trump handles Israel/Palenstine?" that'd be deflecting from the topic of conversation.
I'm not saying that we don't fix US immigration. I'm saying that we need to immediately stop treating innocent kids like shit. They are being sexual assaulted, abused, tortured, and killed in some cases.
Just because their parents came here illegally doesn't mean we get to treat children in this fashion. What is it retribution? What the fuck did the kids do wrong exactly?
VTshredder69The kids did nothing wrong. But Why are we more mad at the USA for mistreating a small percentage of kids and not more mad at the countries they're fleeing that mistreats and exploits pretty much all of them?
God you are fucking stpuid. its painful to read the things you say.
Because, we have a lot more controle over how they are treated here then how they are treated in other countires.
ParkingLotPissGod you are fucking stpuid. its painful to read the things you say.
Because, we have a lot more controle over how they are treated here then how they are treated in other countires.
And we have a history of destabilizing governments in these countries.
It's like telling black people to get over racism when equal rights have only been around for 50-60 years. When my grandmother was born segregation was legal.
How can we really tell these people not to come here when our government is partially responsible for their countries being on fire?
Look at Honduras, Nica, and Venezuela. Tons of illegal immigrants come from these countries, but in the past 20 years we've been interfering in their politics and we've only made the situations worse.
I fucking love the USA. My family is a military family. But come on.
Well this is exactly what i mean. We're not making their country any better. But remember I'm so fucking stupid.
abjectwoeAnd we have a history of destabilizing governments in these countries.
It's like telling black people to get over racism when equal rights have only been around for 50-60 years. When my grandmother was born segregation was legal.
How can we really tell these people not to come here when our government is partially responsible for their countries being on fire?
Look at Honduras, Nica, and Venezuela. Tons of illegal immigrants come from these countries, but in the past 20 years we've been interfering in their politics and we've only made the situations worse.
I fucking love the USA. My family is a military family. But come on.
I’m in the Netherlands right now and just saw on the news about the flamethrowing dude in Boulder, not far from my house. Dude was trying to fight for human rights and decided to light like 8 people on fire
He was also here and overstayed his visa making him an illegal. But yea lets keep using my tax dollars for these people.
Rock_InhabitantI’m in the Netherlands right now and just saw on the news about the flamethrowing dude in Boulder, not far from my house. Dude was trying to fight for human rights and decided to light like 8 people on fire
Rock_InhabitantI’m in the Netherlands right now and just saw on the news about the flamethrowing dude in Boulder, not far from my house. Dude was trying to fight for human rights and decided to light like 8 people on fire
VTshredder69Well this is exactly what i mean. We're not making their country any better. But remember I'm so fucking stupid.
there's actually no way you read what he said and some how still couldnt understand his point. YES, you are stupid.
Im gonna spell it out for you real slow (like you) and feel free you ask for further clarifications.
The U.S. is supposed to be the “good guy”, a rich, free country that says it cares about human rights. So when people come here desperate for safety and are thrown in cages or treated badly, it feels extra wrong. On top of that, the U.S. has helped cause some of the problems these people are running from by messing around in their countries through wars, coups, and unfair deals. So it’s not just that the U.S. is being cruel, it’s also being cruel to people it helped put in a bad situation in the first place. And since all this is done by politicians we vote for, it makes people feel responsible and even more upset.
Conservatives often use illegal immigrants as scapegoats to distract from real problems like low wages or housing costs. Blaming immigrants is easier than fixing tough issues or holding the wealthy accountable. It creates fear, divides people, and helps politicians gain support without offering real solutions. The same thing applies to trans people, and to gay and Black people to varying degrees throughout history. But know that when politicians try to pin any problem on a group of people, they are diverting the blame from the powerful people who are benefiting from these issues.
you mean like the dude who lit people on fire in CO? Illegal immigrant.
So now you're agreeing that people should be lit on fire?
And I thought you liberals were supposed to hate violence. But now you're supporting lighting people on fire. That's just great man.
Oh yea man drone striking people in the middleeast is really trying to help people!
ParkingLotPissthere's actually no way you read what he said and some how still couldnt understand his point. YES, you are stupid.
Im gonna spell it out for you real slow (like you) and feel free you ask for further clarifications.
The U.S. is supposed to be the “good guy”, a rich, free country that says it cares about human rights. So when people come here desperate for safety and are thrown in cages or treated badly, it feels extra wrong. On top of that, the U.S. has helped cause some of the problems these people are running from by messing around in their countries through wars, coups, and unfair deals. So it’s not just that the U.S. is being cruel, it’s also being cruel to people it helped put in a bad situation in the first place. And since all this is done by politicians we vote for, it makes people feel responsible and even more upset.
Conservatives often use illegal immigrants as scapegoats to distract from real problems like low wages or housing costs. Blaming immigrants is easier than fixing tough issues or holding the wealthy accountable. It creates fear, divides people, and helps politicians gain support without offering real solutions. The same thing applies to trans people, and to gay and Black people to varying degrees throughout history. But know that when politicians try to pin any problem on a group of people, they are diverting the blame from the powerful people who are benefiting from these issues.
My opinion is that climate change may or may not be real, as i have no way to prove it myself but to listen to scientific papers that have questionable funders and backers, but even if it is, it's unrealistic and overly idealistic to think that individual actions can make a significant difference. Even if the entire Western world united to fight climate change, countries in Africa and Asia are still going to contribute large amounts of pollution. So in the grand scheme of things, sacrificing your personal standard of living for a goal that seems unachievable doesn't make much sense.
fabbeMy opinion is that climate change may or may not be real, as i have no way to prove it myself but to listen to scientific papers that have questionable funders and backers, but even if it is, it's unrealistic and overly idealistic to think that individual actions can make a significant difference. Even if the entire Western world united to fight climate change, countries in Africa and Asia are still going to contribute large amounts of pollution. So in the grand scheme of things, sacrificing your personal standard of living for a goal that seems unachievable doesn't make much sense.
Speaking of tropes...
Conservative dweeb reads a source without actually reading the source. Turns out the source says the exact opposite of what they're claiming. Once again, more painful idiocy
“While the recent snowfall has temporarily offset these losses, they haven’t stopped, so it’s not expected this is a long-term change in Antarctica’s behaviour.”
“This isn’t a sign that global warming and climate change have miraculously reversed.”
fabbeMy opinion is that climate change may or may not be real, as i have no way to prove it myself but to listen to scientific papers that have questionable funders and backers, but even if it is, it's unrealistic and overly idealistic to think that individual actions can make a significant difference. Even if the entire Western world united to fight climate change, countries in Africa and Asia are still going to contribute large amounts of pollution. So in the grand scheme of things, sacrificing your personal standard of living for a goal that seems unachievable doesn't make much sense.
There’s no “may or may not.” Scientists around the world agree. Every study says it is very real, even the ones funded by oil and gas companies (that’s how they knew to start pushing misinformation to fool idiots like you).
It’s true that individual contributions are basically pointless compared to those of corporations and governments, but whose job is it to push these bodies to change? That’s where individuals come in. You can be a hopeless, whining baby or you can grow up and push for change.
Being a climate change denier or someone who doesn’t care makes you a spineless coward whose will is easily broken.
I'm genuinely curious for the people who are staunch Trump immigration policy supporters.
How would you approach the visa overstayer "problem"?
Visa overstayers, for those who do not know, are those who travel to the US legally (through approved visas) and then overstay. They are estimated to account for ~40% of all illegal immigration to this country and obviously are very tricky to track down.
Some of these individuals come for pleasure (travel), other's come for temporary work, some come for education. Regardless, they're not as simple to track as those who come over the southern (or northern) borders.
The reason I ask is the horrific tragedy in Boulder was caused by someone who came to this country legally but then overstayed his visa. He had applied for asylum but given the backlog and ineptitude of the US government's immigration system did not receive a hearing in time despite his temporary work visa expiring.
.MASSHOLE.I'm genuinely curious for the people who are staunch Trump immigration policy supporters.
How would you approach the visa overstayer "problem"?
Visa overstayers, for those who do not know, are those who travel to the US legally (through approved visas) and then overstay. They are estimated to account for ~40% of all illegal immigration to this country and obviously are very tricky to track down.
Some of these individuals come for pleasure (travel), other's come for temporary work, some come for education. Regardless, they're not as simple to track as those who come over the southern (or northern) borders.
The reason I ask is the horrific tragedy in Boulder was caused by someone who came to this country legally but then overstayed his visa. He had applied for asylum but given the backlog and ineptitude of the US government's immigration system did not receive a hearing in time despite his temporary work visa expiring.
Most of those 40% are people that cross the southern border on a tourist visa with no intention of leaving in 90 or 180 days when the visa expires.
The government should be keeping track of visas expiring and deport people who refuse to leave on their own. Mohammed Soliman should have been immediately deported and not been allowed to stay, pending his (bogus) assylum claims.
Additionally, most countries do not allow you to apply for a new type of visa, assylum, etc. from within the country, and for good reason. E.G. if you have a tourist visa to the UK, but want to get a work visa, you have to leave the country and apply at a British embassy, that way if they deny you, they don't have to go through the trouble of tracking you down and the legal battles to deport you.
