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Christian_BaleTo be honest, I think our understanding of this situation is very different and based on different sources, so we're probably not gonna see eye to eye on it. I agree with what @Juviticus has been saying, so might be best to agree to disagree on this one.
Well you’ve already admitted you’re not super up and up on the situation so maybe your understanding is different or not fully based on the facts or the history of the conflict. Which is fine. I’m much older than you and have been well versed on the conflict for most of my life. I know and understand the history. As I’ve said to others I’m not here to convince you of thinking one way or the other and have been fine with agreeing to disagree.
PartyBullshiitAs someone who was raised in a Jewish household with a very Jewish family, Jews don’t think gentiles should be put death for not following the Jewish faith like Muslims do. Jews just think you’re lower class trash for not following the Jewish religion. Muslims thing anyone who doesn’t follow the prophet Mohamed should die. Huge difference
Right so either be killed by one or treated as subhuman subjects by the other, what an endearing tale of good vs evil
TOAST.Wouldn't you think a better course of action would be to have a more precise response with less civilian casualties. Killing civilians just radicalizes more civilians and will keep this bullshit going on forever with no hope of it ever ending.
If Israel was doing that and stopped all expansion of their borders id have no problem supporting them.
Their response has been about as precise as they can posdibly get. I'll criticize Israel for their russia-style expansion into the West Bank to no end, but their methods in Gaza have been largely justified. Using guided munitions, knocks on the roof (over the past decade), and targeted raids have cost them significantly in dollars and casualties. But Hamas wants Gazans (the majority of whom are kids) in the crossfire to continually inflame tensions and continue Iranian/Qarari donations so there's really nothing Israel can do about that without putting significantly more of their soldiers at risk. The only way Israel can reduce the Gazan casualties without increasing their own is by taking their partial win and withdrawing. But that just invites another attack by the kids of the Al Asqa martyrs et al. 5-10 years from now. That is an untenable solution to most Israelis so they can not leave until Hamas is eradicated
BiffbarfRight so either be killed by one or treated as subhuman subjects by the other, what an endearing tale of good vs evil
I’d rather be treated subhuman than killed. To be clear I don’t think either view is right. While I was raised Jewish by my mother, my father was Roman catholic. So I’ve had more than my share of both religions. I personally think all religion is full of shit and used as a way of controlling masses. I do not Believe in god and cannot take anyone serious who does or any prophet for that matter. If you think there is a magically space god controlling your life I cannot respect your intelligence or anything you say. My opinion of course.
SlushSeasonTheir response has been about as precise as they can posdibly get. I'll criticize Israel for their russia-style expansion into the West Bank to no end, but their methods in Gaza have been largely justified. Using guided munitions, knocks on the roof (over the past decade), and targeted raids have cost them significantly in dollars and casualties. But Hamas wants Gazans (the majority of whom are kids) in the crossfire to continually inflame tensions and continue Iranian/Qarari donations so there's really nothing Israel can do about that without putting significantly more of their soldiers at risk. The only way Israel can reduce the Gazan casualties without increasing their own is by taking their partial win and withdrawing. But that just invites another attack by the kids of the Al Asqa martyrs et al. 5-10 years from now. That is an untenable solution to most Israelis so they can not leave until Hamas is eradicated
PartyBullshiitAs someone who was raised in a Jewish household with a very Jewish family, Jews don’t think gentiles should be put death for not following the Jewish faith like Muslims do. Jews just think you’re lower class trash for not following the Jewish religion. Muslims thing anyone who doesn’t follow the prophet Mohamed should die. Huge difference
dude, you're so stupid that you've got me wanting to defend Islam. that's crazy work lol
SteezyYeeterdude, you're so stupid that you've got me wanting to defend Islam. that's crazy work lol
You’re more than welcome to defend a religion that promotes death to non believers, marring child brides and treating women as property. Just tells us everything we need to know about you.
PartyBullshiitYou’re more than welcome to defend a religion that promotes death to non believers, marring child brides and treating women as property. Just tells us everything we need to know about you.
Are you fucking stupid? I've got on multi-paragraph rants on this forum before about how Islam is evil. How do you not understand the concept of nuance and that there is no good side?
SteezyYeeterAll religion is fucking stupid? I've got on multi-paragraph rants on this forum before about how all are evil. How do you not understand the concept of nuance and that there is no good side to any of them?
Fixed for you.
**This post was edited on Jun 29th 2025 at 1:48:35pm
This is the 2024 USA presidential thread. Not the Goat fucking suicide bombing thread.
TRUMP IS YOUR PRESIDENT.
OK Carry on.
It is impossible to reason with people who are so entrenched in their views. They have grown up under the strictest of neo-liberal middle-class conditions.
PartyBullshiitNo one is talking about Israel always being attacked. We are specifically talking about Oct 7th and post that.
I love how people say “oh well just get over it” deal with terrorist who invaded the country and committed mass genocide living at your door step.
show me 1 time Israel went into Palestine and murdered 1200 people and took over 300 people hostage in a single day.
don’t worry I’ll wait.
just kind of over the bs of people defending terrorist.
No use trying to convince you dude. You talk about propaganda but are eating it up. Israel has done plenty of war crimes. Believe what ever you want. I don't support terrorists. But we have a weird way of only framing certain people as terrorists. If they weren't Israel we would 100% be calling some of these war crimes terrorism.
Also I condemn all the fucked up war crimes the US is done. I don't hate Americans or america. Weird how criticizing Isreals is considered antisemitism?!? Also our tax dollars are funding this shit. Im ok with pissing people off and being on the right side of history on this. Blindly supporting Israel is wild honestly.
I love my Jewish friends but you are going down a wild road dude.
It feels like the Italian people losing their minds about not celebrating Columbus day. Italian people are awesome, columbus was a piece of shit. History needs to be able to make distinctions like that. Jewish people are awesome. War crimes and killing civilians are not.
I don't really care how you grew up but you need to figure that out. Hating war crimes is not hating Jewish people. War crimes are fucking war crimes? Lets not rally for them?!?
SlushSeasonTheir response has been about as precise as they can posdibly get. I'll criticize Israel for their russia-style expansion into the West Bank to no end, but their methods in Gaza have been largely justified. Using guided munitions, knocks on the roof (over the past decade), and targeted raids have cost them significantly in dollars and casualties. But Hamas wants Gazans (the majority of whom are kids) in the crossfire to continually inflame tensions and continue Iranian/Qarari donations so there's really nothing Israel can do about that without putting significantly more of their soldiers at risk. The only way Israel can reduce the Gazan casualties without increasing their own is by taking their partial win and withdrawing. But that just invites another attack by the kids of the Al Asqa martyrs et al. 5-10 years from now. That is an untenable solution to most Israelis so they can not leave until Hamas is eradicated
With their current approach I think you are going to see future attacks with or without Hamas. Israel is taking the path that will cost the least amount of their soldiers lives (understandable) but will just keep repeating the current cycles unless they completely eliminate the existence of Palestine.
theabortionatorNo use trying to convince you dude. You talk about propaganda but are eating it up. Israel has done plenty of war crimes. Believe what ever you want. I don't support terrorists. But we have a weird way of only framing certain people as terrorists. If they weren't Israel we would 100% be calling some of these war crimes terrorism.
Also I condemn all the fucked up war crimes the US is done. I don't hate Americans or america. Weird how criticizing Isreals is considered antisemitism?!? Also our tax dollars are funding this shit. Im ok with pissing people off and being on the right side of history on this. Blindly supporting Israel is wild honestly.
I love my Jewish friends but you are going down a wild road dude.
War crimes are typically committed by individuals during a war. When you say things like “war crimes committed by the US” you’re kind of showing that you don’t know what a war crime actually is.
labubu-crazeIt is impossible to reason with people who are so entrenched in their views. They have grown up under the strictest of neo-liberal middle-class conditions.
TOAST.With their current approach I think you are going to see future attacks with or without Hamas. Israel is taking the path that will cost the least amount of their soldiers lives (understandable) but will just keep repeating the current cycles unless they completely eliminate the existence of Palestine.
Unfortunately that's probably true. I think the best solution would be to remove all Jewish "settlers" from the west bank and move all Gazans to the west bank. Set up a real Palestinian state in the west bank (not including jerusalem) that can actually support itself. It would cause a lot of chaos in the short term but in the long term they'd have more stability and end the permanent Palestinian "refugee" crisis.
Gaza can not continue to exist as an entity separate from Israel and Egypt. It can't supply its own food, water, and power. It has no competetive advantage in any field (except producing lots of kids) so it will continue to be reliant on Israeli and Arab aid for as long as it exists.
Been traveling and haven’t kept up with the news so I don’t know much about this guy in New York outside of him doing well with young folks and having some out there socialist policy’s…
but I just saw today that the admin/some congressmen that is open to/wants to investigate him to try and denaturalize and deport him after he won the primary…over a rap video?
Shit's wild dude. Even the democrats are scared of somebody standing up for the voters winning. I hope the party can be salvaged but who knows. All the establishment dems and $$$ coming down against him. This is an important space...
**This post was edited on Jul 1st 2025 at 11:22:23am
LonelyBeen traveling and haven’t kept up with the news so I don’t know much about this guy in New York outside of him doing well with young folks and having some out there socialist policy’s…
but I just saw today that the admin/some congressmen that is open to/wants to investigate him to try and denaturalize and deport him after he won the primary…over a rap video?
It's because he wants to tax income over $1 mill an extra 2% to fund housing projects, state owned grocery stores, and subsidized childcare. Of course, these are extremely dangerous ideas, so they are throwing everything at thim to wane support.
Granby_killdozerWar crimes are typically committed by individuals during a war. When you say things like “war crimes committed by the US” you’re kind of showing that you don’t know what a war crime actually is.
War crimes are many times committed by a government as were the ones I mentioned. So sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about. Again, handle checks out. Idk, wild that hating on war crimes is somehow revolutionary these days. Really doesn't make sense to me but the "don't tread on me" folks always felt like a weird political circle jerk. Checks out more these days?
theabortionatorWar crimes are many times committed by a government as were the ones I mentioned. So sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about. Again, handle checks out. Idk, wild that hating on war crimes is somehow revolutionary these days. Really doesn't make sense to me but the "don't tread on me" folks always felt like a weird political circle jerk. Checks out more these days?
Has the US military ever adopted a policy that is in violation of the Geneva Conventions? No? Then “The US” has never committed war crimes. Individuals within the armed services have and they are often punished for them. But war crimes have a specific definition, it’s not just anything that you and your favorite news outlet find morally objectionable.
LonelyBeen traveling and haven’t kept up with the news so I don’t know much about this guy in New York outside of him doing well with young folks and having some out there socialist policy’s…
but I just saw today that the admin/some congressmen that is open to/wants to investigate him to try and denaturalize and deport him after he won the primary…over a rap video?
Shit's wild dude. Even the democrats are scared of somebody standing up for the voters winning. I hope the party can be salvaged but who knows. All the establishment dems and $$$ coming down against him. This is an important space...
**This post was edited on Jul 1st 2025 at 11:22:23am
Remember folks, AOC grew up in Yorktown, not the Bronx
I am agreeing with you - just giving an example of the exaggerations that establishment dems will do so others can see that they are not above destroying the credibility of Mamdani
VTshredder69So does a minimum wage increase or decrease jobs?
dont deflect. have some balls. stay on topic.
Taxing the top 1% wouldn’t cause job loss because job creation is driven by consumer demand, not by the wealth of the rich. The wealthy tend to save or invest much of their income. The portion they reinvest into their own businesses may lead to more jobs, but that’s also how they grow their profits. If taxes were increased, rich people wouldn’t stop reinvesting in their businesses. Taxes on them can be redirected into public services and infrastructure, which create jobs directly. Historical data shows that high taxes on the rich have coexisted with strong economies and low unemployment. Ultimately, hiring depends on business needs, not on whether billionaires keep more of their money.
I honestly think taxing the rich is a band-aid solution to the larger problem, which is capitalism.
The current economic system is built around the idea that the "goal" is to accumulate wealth, and the more wealth you have, the more influence and power you gain. In this system, accumulating wealth becomes easier the more of it you already have, so the inevitable outcome is that a small portion of people effectively hold all the wealth and, in turn, all the power. That’s an oligarchy.
ParkingLotPissdont deflect. have some balls. stay on topic.
Taxing the top 1% wouldn’t cause job loss because job creation is driven by consumer demand, not by the wealth of the rich. The wealthy tend to save or invest much of their income. The portion they reinvest into their own businesses may lead to more jobs, but that’s also how they grow their profits. If taxes were increased, rich people wouldn’t stop reinvesting in their businesses. Taxes on them can be redirected into public services and infrastructure, which create jobs directly. Historical data shows that high taxes on the rich have coexisted with strong economies and low unemployment. Ultimately, hiring depends on business needs, not on whether billionaires keep more of their money.
I honestly think taxing the rich is a band-aid solution to the larger problem, which is capitalism.
The current economic system is built around the idea that the "goal" is to accumulate wealth, and the more wealth you have, the more influence and power you gain. In this system, accumulating wealth becomes easier the more of it you already have, so the inevitable outcome is that a small portion of people effectively hold all the wealth and, in turn, all the power. That’s an oligarchy.
Capitalism is the biggest scam in history.
Lol@ thinking the pareto distribution doesn't occur outside of 'capitalism'
BiffbarfLol@ thinking the pareto distribution doesn't occur outside of 'capitalism'
I assume you're saying that concentrations of power can happen under any system. This is true, but if you have a system that is designed to create economic equality, this outcome is a failure of the system. With capitalism, this outcome is built into the system's structure.
ParkingLotPissI assume you're saying that concentrations of power can happen under any system. This is true, but if you have a system that is designed to create economic equality, this outcome is a failure of the system. With capitalism, this outcome is built into the system's structure.
'built into the structure' like capitalism is some sort of construct lol
Granby_killdozerHas the US military ever adopted a policy that is in violation of the Geneva Conventions? No? Then “The US” has never committed war crimes. Individuals within the armed services have and they are often punished for them. But war crimes have a specific definition, it’s not just anything that you and your favorite news outlet find morally objectionable.
Bro. I won't even get into the horrible shit we've done around the world. There isn't enough time. A good starting point is henry Kissenger and all hos horrible ideas that not only got a lot of people killed, but mever seemed to pan out.
He was like the business owner that keeps failing not because its hard, but because he was useless. And we gave him a nobel peace prize.
Im sure you don't care and your opinions are made up so why bother. But the places we've destabilizes including Iran all come back to us and the CIA. It's one thing to do horrible things around the world, another when they basically all backfire.
America the land of the free but we've toppled democracies for capitalism and let dictators ruin countries several times.
Yet we're taught America is and has always been the good guy. I love America but that's some bullshit. But yeah have fun with your friends on the 4th with your flags and trump merch.
America's getting shittier and it's going to impact you. Good luck! Hyped to gtfo for a while
theabortionatorBro. I won't even get into the horrible shit we've done around the world. There isn't enough time. A good starting point is henry Kissenger and all hos horrible ideas that not only got a lot of people killed, but mever seemed to pan out.
He was like the business owner that keeps failing not because its hard, but because he was useless. And we gave him a nobel peace prize.
Im sure you don't care and your opinions are made up so why bother. But the places we've destabilizes including Iran all come back to us and the CIA. It's one thing to do horrible things around the world, another when they basically all backfire.
America the land of the free but we've toppled democracies for capitalism and let dictators ruin countries several times.
Yet we're taught America is and has always been the good guy. I love America but that's some bullshit. But yeah have fun with your friends on the 4th with your flags and trump merch.
America's getting shittier and it's going to impact you. Good luck! Hyped to gtfo for a while
Bro please do get into the horrible shit we’ve done because you’ve clearly been spoon fed a bunch of bs and haven’t actually looked into things yourself. What war crimes did Henry Kissinger commit? You understand that both sides have to have signed treaties like The Hague and Geneva Conventions in order for them to be enforceable right? The viet cong, al qaeda, and the taliban were not protected by them.
ParkingLotPissdont deflect. have some balls. stay on topic.
Taxing the top 1% wouldn’t cause job loss because job creation is driven by consumer demand, not by the wealth of the rich. The wealthy tend to save or invest much of their income. The portion they reinvest into their own businesses may lead to more jobs, but that’s also how they grow their profits. If taxes were increased, rich people wouldn’t stop reinvesting in their businesses. Taxes on them can be redirected into public services and infrastructure, which create jobs directly. Historical data shows that high taxes on the rich have coexisted with strong economies and low unemployment. Ultimately, hiring depends on business needs, not on whether billionaires keep more of their money.
I honestly think taxing the rich is a band-aid solution to the larger problem, which is capitalism.
The current economic system is built around the idea that the "goal" is to accumulate wealth, and the more wealth you have, the more influence and power you gain. In this system, accumulating wealth becomes easier the more of it you already have, so the inevitable outcome is that a small portion of people effectively hold all the wealth and, in turn, all the power. That’s an oligarchy.
Biffbarf'built into the structure' like capitalism is some sort of construct lol
Capitalism is objectively a construct.
Explain why I'm wrong. I want to be wrong, but I don't see how capitalism can lead to anything but oligarchy. The only thing stopping that from happening is the rich and powerful choosing not to use their wealth to gain even more power. And we all know that's not going to happen
You won't do it because your political ideology is not rooted in reality, it's rooted in emotions and propaganda.
You can't explain why I'm wrong about anything in the same way you can't explain why you are right about anything, because you don't know why you believe the things you do.
And I'm not talking about conservatism or right-wing political ideas in general. I'm specifically talking about capitalism and the fact that it inevitably creates small, strong concentrations of wealth and power while leaving huge deficits for the rest of the population.
ParkingLotPissI assume you're saying that concentrations of power can happen under any system. This is true, but if you have a system that is designed to create economic equality, this outcome is a failure of the system. With capitalism, this outcome is built into the system's structure.
The question I ask you is this: how do you go about rewarding the work of others under a different system? How do we treat those that drive innovation vs. those that don't? Or do you rely on another country to do that for you?
Capitalism is inherently a reward structure that encourages fairness - which does need to be regulated to keep it fair. I don't think you generally hate capitalism, what you do hate is cronyism.
If you have a different reward structure, where does power then concentrate? It concentrates around whichever person or group hands out the rewards for work. This, as we have seen, is easily corruptible. Reward = to value of work provided is the fairest system.
ParkingLotPissCapitalism is objectively a construct.
Explain why I'm wrong. I want to be wrong, but I don't see how capitalism can lead to anything but oligarchy. The only thing stopping that from happening is the rich and powerful choosing not to use their wealth to gain even more power. And we all know that's not going to happen
Nomatter the system, oligarchy will happen. In the systems most designed to prevent oligarchy, capitalism occurs in the black markets. Individual ownership of production is natural to humans, everything else requires threat of external violence to comply.
ParkingLotPissCapitalism is objectively a construct.
Explain why I'm wrong. I want to be wrong, but I don't see how capitalism can lead to anything but oligarchy. The only thing stopping that from happening is the rich and powerful choosing not to use their wealth to gain even more power. And we all know that's not going to happen
A strong and robust regulatory framework and a justice system that punishes crime fairly and equally, and a democratically elected governments with proper checks and balances is what stops wealthy people from gaining more power.
Since I have roots in Africa, I have a keen interest in the goings-on on that continent. I'm going to use two countries on that continent to demonstrate to you how it's not capitalism that is at fault, it's those that take the reins of governance that are at fault.
Botswana got its independence from Britain in 1966 and has been one of the longest continuing democracies on the continent. While not one of the richest countries in Africa - it has the highest income per capita, equalling that of Mexico. It is a country that ranks high for ease of doing business and has historically maintained a capitalist framework in contrast to many other African nations that implemented socialist policies. It is also one of the safest countries in Africa due to its stable democracy.
In contrast, Zimbabwe is a clusterfuck. Robert Mugabe, who was a former revolutionary fighter against the state of Rhodesia and became the first secretary for Zimbabwe African National Union, was democratically elected as president of Zimbabwe in 1980. While initially friendly to private enterprise, his socialist reforms (particularly land redistribution as a form of wealth distribution, which funnily enough was given to his staunchest supporters) completely guttered the country and led what was considered the breadbasket of Africa into economic collapse. How is a staunch socialist able to have an estimated 1 billion dollars of net worth before his death while his country starved and his daughter lives in Paris in an apartment on one the most affluent streets in the city? His control over key institutions and political repression destroyed the lives of millions.
So, there you have it - two very different systems and from what I can see, the capitalist system is clearly the better one.
I am a product of capitalism. I am middle class and work in Finance.
I make six figures but i'm not rich. I'm rewarded for working hard with a good salary.
Please tell me a better structure instead of broad generic statements about how capitalism concentrates weatlth and power?
Capitalism works, you saying it's worthless and yet not offering a better solution just shows you're 12 years old.
ParkingLotPissYou won't do it because your political ideology is not rooted in reality, it's rooted in emotions and propaganda.
You can't explain why I'm wrong about anything in the same way you can't explain why you are right about anything, because you don't know why you believe the things you do.
And I'm not talking about conservatism or right-wing political ideas in general. I'm specifically talking about capitalism and the fact that it inevitably creates small, strong concentrations of wealth and power while leaving huge deficits for the rest of the population.
