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PoikenzYes, it's not like the region hasn't been in conflict since the canaanite's. If you want to argue current conflict, the real trigger would ultimately fall on the Balfour declaration, but blame those who were kicked off their land by those who had been previously kicked off their land ad nauseum.
Absolutely the conflicts have been going on for ages, but people weren’t in a major uproar until the most recent battles. Once Israel fully assaulted all of Gaza. The current extreme crisis was caused by 1 event. The unprovoked attack of Israel by hamas on Oct 7 where they committed complete genocide as well as taking hostages back into palestine. That’s an undeniable fact. Let’s not pretend otherwise.
prior to that both sides were doing things that were wrong and causing the anger to rise. Israel was not in the right nor was Palestine. Palestinians voting in Hamas inflamed things even more. The current Israel administration is absolutely pro war and looking for a reason to do what they’ve now done. Prior to Oct 7 I was not supportive of one side vs the other. They both were bad actors period.
Let’s not pretend that if Mexico came across our boarder and committed the acts that Hamas did we wouldn’t be bombing their asses back to the Stone Age too.
PartyBullshiitThat’s cool that people “you’ve met” say they don’t support them But polls of actual Palestinians living in Palestine show they absolutely still support them with majority of the population still in support. Majority also still support the unprovoked Oct 7 attack on Israel which is why we ended up with the crisis we have currently. Let’s not forget majority of Palestinians voted in hamas as their party leaders. They chose them. Simple as that. They also still support the continued holding of Israeli hostages which is why Israel is still turning Gaza into bedrock. You don’t get to walk up to someone, punch them in the face then cry victim when they turn around and beat your ass. Here’s a crazy throught, give back the hostages, stop having citizens hide hostages in their houses for hamas.
Dog you said majority and those numbers literally show around 50% support, and that's of people polled in an active warzone area controlled by Hamas who will punsih people that speak against them. You really think that's an accurate representation?
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 2:26:45pm
JuviticusDog you said majority and those numbers literally show around 50% support, and that's of people polled in an active warzone. You really think that's an accurate representation?
Overall support is 57%. Dog that’s called the majority. Ok let’s assume because it’s an active war zone they can’t poll everyone. June of 24 the support was at 75% when more of the population was available to poll. Hamas was literally voted into power. There is absolutely no doubt what so ever the country supports them.
PartyBullshiitOverall support is 57%. Dog that’s called the majority. Ok let’s assume because it’s an active war zone they can’t poll everyone. June of 24 the support was at 75% when more of the population was available to poll. Hamas was literally voted into power. There is absolutely no doubt what so ever the country supports them.
The other numbers were under 50% and that's BARELY a majority. And okay so what? We should just let Israel use all of Americans military technology to kill everyone? The Oct 7th attack was probably the absolute most Hamas was militarily capable of and Israel's reaction has been supremely disproportionate.
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 2:48:29pm
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 2:49:51pm
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 2:50:27pm
JuviticusThe other numbers were under 50% and that's BARELY a majority. And okay so what? We should just let Israel use all of Americans military technology to kill everyone? The Oct 7th attack was probably the absolute most Hamas was militarily capable of and Israel's reaction has been supremely disproportionate
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 2:48:29pm
Overall support is still 57% currently. Which means the majority. “We” don’t get to let anything happen. Our administration is going to do what they’re going to do. That’s not saying it’s right or wrong.
you have your opinion on thinking it’s disproportional to what Hamas did and that’s completely fine. I put myself in the shoes of the Israeli families.
If Cuba invaded Florida (since they’re closest essentially) and slaughtered my friends and family killing 1200 people unprovoked as well as taking over 300 hostages and still at almost 2 years later still holding around 50 people hostage, I’d have zero issues bombing their country back to the Stone Age and using any means necessary to get the hostages home. Period.
At the end of the day Hamas was voted into power in Palestine by the people. The majority of the people have supported them ( 75%) a year ago and now still 57% currently which as pointed out is likely still higher since polling the population at this point is extremely hard.
if you and your family went through what the Israel’s did and are still dealing with on Oct 7 and you’re ok with no retaliation that’s your right to feel that was. Agree to disagree. Im
not here to convince you otherwise.
it’s just time to stop pretending Israel caused the current situation in Gaza. They didn’t. If Oct 7th never happened Gaza wouldn’t be a pile a ruble currently. That’s just an undeniable fact.
PartyBullshiitOverall support is still 57% currently. Which means the majority. “We” don’t get to let anything happen. Our administration is going to do what they’re going to do. That’s not saying it’s right or wrong.
you have your opinion on thinking it’s disproportional to what Hamas did and that’s completely fine. I put myself in the shoes of the Israeli families.
If Cuba invaded Florida (since they’re closest essentially) and slaughtered my friends and family killing 1200 people unprovoked as well as taking over 300 hostages and still at almost 2 years later still holding around 50 people hostage, I’d have zero issues bombing their country back to the Stone Age and using any means necessary to get the hostages home. Period.
At the end of the day Hamas was voted into power in Palestine by the people. The majority of the people have supported them ( 75%) a year ago and now still 57% currently which as pointed out is likely still higher since polling the population at this point is extremely hard.
if you and your family went through what the Israel’s did and are still dealing with on Oct 7 and you’re ok with no retaliation that’s your right to feel that was. Agree to disagree. Im
not here to convince you otherwise.
it’s just time to stop pretending Israel caused the current situation in Gaza. They didn’t. If Oct 7th never happened Gaza wouldn’t be a pile a ruble currently. That’s just an undeniable fact.
You comparison with Cuba doesn't work because American doesn't control the borders, food, water, and electricity supplies of Cuba. A condition which existed in Palestine before the October 7th attack. Also I never said Israel shouldn't respond, I said their response was supremely disproportionate.
You choose to stand with Israeli families? Cool, I stand with them too but more so with the significantly more Palestinian families that this war has now disproportionately effected
JuviticusYou comparison with Cuba doesn't work because American doesn't control the borders, food, water, and electricity supplies of Cuba. A condition which existed in Palestine before the October 7th attack. Also I never said Israel shouldn't respond, I said their response was supremely disproportionate.
You choose to stand with Israeli families? Cool, I stand with them too but more so with the significantly more Palestinian families that this war has now disproportionately effected
Ok forget Cuba. If I lived in Israel on Oct 7, I’d still feel the same. Like I said I’m not here to convince you. Agree to disagree. I just don’t have the same sympathy as you do for Palestinians.
the stated goal of Hamas has always been the destruction of Israel and the killing of all Jewish people. Nothing about that is new and yet Palestinians still chose to vote them into power as their political leaders knowing exactly that what they wanted because they support it. As I said before you don’t get to punch someone in the face unprovoked then cry victim when they turn around and beat your ass.
if Hamas surrendered and wasn’t still holding hostages maybe there would be a conversation to have about Israel doing things that are disproportionate. That’s not the case though.
PartyBullshiitAbsolutely the conflicts have been going on for ages, but people weren’t in a major uproar until the most recent battles. Once Israel fully assaulted all of Gaza. The current extreme crisis was caused by 1 event. The unprovoked attack of Israel by hamas on Oct 7 where they committed complete genocide as well as taking hostages back into palestine. That’s an undeniable fact. Let’s not pretend otherwise.
You seem to think that it was an uncharacteristic move, but they've been pulling off attacks exactly like this for the past 20 years. Calling the attack unprovoked is a little disingenuous given just the past 3 years of conflict, let alone century.
PoikenzYou seem to think that it was an uncharacteristic move, but they've been pulling off attacks exactly like this for the past 20 years. Calling the attack unprovoked is a little disingenuous given just the past 3 years of conflict, let alone century.
Both sides have been consistently attacking each other. Prior to Hamas it was suicide bombings regularly occurring in Israel. Once Hamas took power it became constant rocket attacks across the boarder. That’s why I said both sides were in the wrong over the years but there was nothing ever to the level of oct 7th which was unprecedented up until that point.
so yes that level of genocide was absolutely unprovoked. Which is why Israel responded with the force they have. That’s why I’ve only been commenting on what’s happened post Oct 7th. Prior to that it was a shit show on both sides with neither country being in the right. Palestinians hated Jews and Jews hated Palestinians and round and round we went.
PartyBullshiitThat’s because Israel is the only Jewish state in the world. Where as there are many Muslim countries. So Israel being considered the home of the Jewish people allow fellow Jews to return there and become citizens. That is why it’s so important for Israel to have the right of being a Jewish state.
Land grabbing is an entirely different subject completely. When you have Muslims and Palestinians chanting from the river to see and talking about wiping out the Jewish people I completely understand why Jews would want to move those people out.
Thats the difference. Iranians and Palestinians want to wipe Jews and Israel off of map. It’s their stated goal.
I like how people are always on the defensive. Israel is getting attacked. People are coming aftet Israel. What about all the war crimes Israel has and continues to commit?
Idk, just kind of over these bs "but look at what someone is saying" and more into the honest thing looking at what Israel is actually doing.
They're a few war crimes past being the victim here.
PartyBullshiitSupporting terrorist who are still holding innocent people hostage really shows what kind of person is on Palestine's side
I don't support Hamas I already said that. And despite what the Zionist propaganda tell you, Hamas doesn't represent all Palestinians.
Hamas was elected back in 2006 (almost 20 years ago and the median age in Palestine is 18, so most living there now weren't even alive) and they weren't even fully elected, they were supposed to joint govern with Fatah but then they went against their agreement and started killing Fatah members and took over. Definitely not what they had promised the voters, and definitely creates an environment where people are afraid to speak out against them.
As for the current support, most of the people living there grew up with both the threat against their safety for speaking against Hamas, and then also being fed Hamas propaganda all their lives. Knowing that and considering only 57% support on a poll I definitely don't believe Hamas represents all people in Gaza
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 3:49:03pm
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 3:52:30pm
PartyBullshiitBoth sides have been consistently attacking each other. Prior to Hamas it was suicide bombings regularly occurring in Israel. Once Hamas took power it became constant rocket attacks across the boarder. That’s why I said both sides were in the wrong over the years but there was nothing ever to the level of oct 7th which was unprecedented up until that point.
so yes that level of genocide was absolutely unprovoked. Which is why Israel responded with the force they have. That’s why I’ve only been commenting on what’s happened post Oct 7th. Prior to that it was a shit show on both sides with neither country being in the right. Palestinians hated Jews and Jews hated Palestinians and round and round we went.
theabortionatorI like how people are always on the defensive. Israel is getting attacked. People are coming aftet Israel. What about all the war crimes Israel has and continues to commit?
Idk, just kind of over these bs "but look at what someone is saying" and more into the honest thing looking at what Israel is actually doing.
They're a few war crimes past being the victim here.
No one is talking about Israel always being attacked. We are specifically talking about Oct 7th and post that.
I love how people say “oh well just get over it” deal with terrorist who invaded the country and committed mass genocide living at your door step.
show me 1 time Israel went into Palestine and murdered 1200 people and took over 300 people hostage in a single day.
don’t worry I’ll wait.
just kind of over the bs of people defending terrorist.
JuviticusI don't support Hamas I already said that. And despite what the Zionist propaganda tell you, Hamas doesn't represent all Palestinians.
Hamas was elected back in 2006 (almost 20 years ago and the median age in Palestine is 18, so most living there now weren't even alive) and they weren't even fully elected, they were supposed to joint govern with Fatah but then they went against their agreement and started killing Fatah members and took over. Definitely not what they had promised the voters, and definitely creates an environment where people are afraid to speak out against them.
As for the current support, most of the people living there grew up with both the threat against their safety for speaking against Hamas, and then also being fed Hamas propaganda all their lives. Knowing that and considering only 57% support on a poll I definitely don't believe Hamas represents all people in Gaza
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 3:49:03pm
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 3:52:30pm
Alright dude. Not going in circles with you. You’re more than welcome to pretend the majority of the population doesn’t support Hamas, scream fake polls whatever you want. Keep eating up that Hamas propaganda.
PartyBullshiitAlright dude. Not going in circles with you. You’re more than welcome to pretend the majority of the population doesn’t support Hamas, scream fake polls whatever you want. Keep eating up that Hamas propaganda.
Bro I never said fake poll can you read? Also good job ignoring everything else I pointed out there
You support collective punishment man, I can sleep well with the moral high ground from that alone
Also the first president to drop the F bomb on live TV without a hot Mic present.
How does he get a third term when his name literally won't be allowed on the ballot? Even his supporters know he's saying it to drive people nuts. seems to work well.
JuviticusThis is true but he did litterally say "there are ways" to get a third term and refused to say he won't try to get a third term when asked.
Obviously he's more than likely just trolling/ragebaitng but like how are we supposed to know the difference anymore? I feel like I should be able to trust the word of the "leader of the free world" you know? And God forbid he wasn't joking and actually wants a third term, by the time everyone clocks that y'all might be too cooked
JuviticusBro I never said fake poll can you read? Also good job ignoring everything else I pointed out there
You support collective punishment man, I can sleep well with the moral high ground from that alone
You literally said you don’t believe the polls. That would imply fake polls. I’m reading exactly what you said.
The reality is Hamas has always stated their goal is to wipe Israel and the Jews from the earth. The Palestinians knew all this from the get go and they voted them into power. The population has continued to support them till this day. You can give your opinion on why or why not that is but facts are facts and the polls show continued support for Hamas and their agenda.
I support brining the innocent hostages that are still being held by Hamas in Palestine home by any means necessary. So I can sleep well with the moral high ground from that alone.
if Hamas surrendered and turned over the hostages id have a very different view of Israel if they continued doing what they’re currently doing to Palestine.
gotta give FL man a very based take on this. Almost all Israeli Arabs admit they're happy to be citizens of Israel. Pretty hard to argue against that point.
Feel bad for the Palestinian people because Hamas has made their lives much worse rather than any better.
PartyBullshiitYou literally said you don’t believe the polls. That would imply fake polls. I’m reading exactly what you said.
The reality is Hamas has always stated their goal is to wipe Israel and the Jews from the earth. The Palestinians knew all this from the get go and they voted them into power. The population has continued to support them till this day. You can give your opinion on why or why not that is but facts are facts and the polls show continued support for Hamas and their agenda.
I support brining the innocent hostages that are still being held by Hamas in Palestine home by any means necessary. So I can sleep well with the moral high ground from that alone.
if Hamas surrendered and turned over the hostages id have a very different view of Israel if they continued doing what they’re currently doing to Palestine.
PartyBullshiitYou literally said you don’t believe the polls. That would imply fake polls. I’m reading exactly what you said.
The reality is Hamas has always stated their goal is to wipe Israel and the Jews from the earth. The Palestinians knew all this from the get go and they voted them into power. The population has continued to support them till this day. You can give your opinion on why or why not that is but facts are facts and the polls show continued support for Hamas and their agenda.
I support brining the innocent hostages that are still being held by Hamas in Palestine home by any means necessary. So I can sleep well with the moral high ground from that alone.
if Hamas surrendered and turned over the hostages id have a very different view of Israel if they continued doing what they’re currently doing to Palestine.
I didn't say I don't believe the polls omg you actually can't read lmao. I miss one comma and this guy is incapable of seeing the sentence structure.
"any means necessary" it's collective punishment you can just say that
VTshredder69Also the first president to drop the F bomb on live TV without a hot Mic present.
How does he get a third term when his name literally won't be allowed on the ballot? Even his supporters know he's saying it to drive people nuts. seems to work well.
The working theory is that he'd run as Vances vice president which he can do and then just get Vance to step down. Technically there's nothing saying he can't do that but obviously I doubt he's being serious
The F bomb drop was hard won't lie
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 4:32:30pm
JuviticusI didn't say I don't believe the polls omg you actually can't read lmao. I miss one comma and this guy is incapable of seeing the sentence structure.
"any means necessary" it's collective punishment you can just say that
Any means necessary means exactly that. Whatever it takes to bring home the innocent hostages that Hamas is still holding in Palestine. It’s all good if you’re cool with them continuing to hold innocent civilians but don’t be upset when Israel is doing whatever it takes to bring them home.
if your family had been slaughtered, raped, burned alive as well as others being held hostage going on two years and you wouldn’t want your country to bring them home by any means necessary that’s your right. Don’t get upset that others don’t agree with you. I’d want my family returned period. I don’t care what it takes to make that happen. My family comes first end of story.
PartyBullshiitAny means necessary means exactly that. Whatever it takes to bring home the innocent hostages that Hamas is still holding in Palestine. It’s all good if you’re cool with them continuing to hold innocent civilians but don’t be upset when Israel is doing whatever it takes to bring them home.
if your family had been slaughtered, raped, burned alive as well as others being held hostage going on two years and you wouldn’t want your country to bring them home by any means necessary that’s your right. Don’t get upset that others don’t agree with you. I’d want my family returned period. I don’t care what it takes to make that happen. My family comes first end of story.
The IDF is doing all those things to Palestinians too man. I don't expect you believe that but even if you did I doubt you'd care about it based on your morals
Don't dance around it, just say you support collective punishment. I believe in you
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 4:42:26pm
JuviticusThe IDF is doing all those things to Palestinians too man. I don't expect you believe that but even if you did I doubt you'd care about it based on your morals
Don't dance around it, just say you support collective punishment. I believe in you
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 4:42:26pm
You can keep throwing words around all you want but they don’t mean what you think they do. here let’s spell it out for your smooth brain.
I support the right of Israel to bring home the innocent hostages that were kidnapped by a terrorist group on Oct 7 unprovoked and taken into Palestine. Israel has every right to have their citizens brought home safely. Doing so by whatever means is not collective punishment no matter how many times you parrot the word.
now if Hamas surrendered and returned the hostages and ended this conflict (which they won’t because they don’t want to and don’t care how many Palestinians die as a result) but assuming they did, and Israel continued to have military engagement in Palestine and I supported that (which i don’t) then that would be supporting collective punishment. That would be punishing the Palestinian people after the fact because of what Hamas had done even though the conflict itself was over.
i fully believe Israel should stop the current military engagements and remove all troops from the areas if the hostages were returned. I wouldn’t support any type of military punishment after that point. Which is exactly why I don’t support collective punishment.
now you supporting Hamas continuing to hold innocent victims in Palestine and continuing to allow innocent Palestinians to die as a result of that is a completely different story.
PartyBullshiitLet’s not pretend that if Mexico came across our boarder and committed the acts that Hamas did we wouldn’t be bombing their asses back to the Stone Age too.
let's not pretend that if mexico (ukraine) joined a communist alliance (NATO) we (russia) wouldn't be attacking them
at least be consistent with your logic
btw, what even happened to that? i dont care that trump didn't finish the war on day 1 but i feel like whatever deadline would have been realistic has passed. frick that boi
PartyBullshiitYou can keep throwing words around all you want but they don’t mean what you think they do. here let’s spell it out for your smooth brain.
I support the right of Israel to bring home the innocent hostages that were kidnapped by a terrorist group on Oct 7 unprovoked and taken into Palestine. Israel has every right to have their citizens brought home safely. Doing so by whatever means is not collective punishment no matter how many times you parrot the word.
now if Hamas surrendered and returned the hostages and ended this conflict (which they won’t because they don’t want to and don’t care how many Palestinians die as a result) but assuming they did, and Israel continued to have military engagement in Palestine and I supported that (which i don’t) then that would be supporting collective punishment. That would be punishing the Palestinian people after the fact because of what Hamas had done even though the conflict itself was over.
i fully believe Israel should stop the current military engagements and remove all troops from the areas if the hostages were returned. I wouldn’t support any type of military punishment after that point. Which is exactly why I don’t support collective punishment.
now you supporting Hamas continuing to hold innocent victims in Palestine and continuing to allow innocent Palestinians to die as a result of that is a completely different story.
Doing if doing so by any means envolves collective punishment, than you support collective punishment. It doesn't stop being collective punishment because you deem it justified.
Parrot enough for ya?
Also I like how you keep saying I support Hamas, further evidence you can't read because I explicitly stated I don't
SteezyYeeterlet's not pretend that if mexico (ukraine) joined a communist alliance (NATO) we (russia) wouldn't be attacking them
at least be consistent with your logic
btw, what even happened to that? i dont care that trump didn't finish the war on day 1 but i feel like whatever deadline would have been realistic has passed. frick that boi
Apples to oranges. Russia Ukraine is a democratic vs communist issue. Palestine Israel is a religious issue. Russia wants Ukraine back under their control and for the Ukraine citizens to once again be Russian citizens.
Palestine wants Israel to be destroyed as a country period and all Jews to be murdered
If Mexico joined Russia suddenly no we wouldn’t be just attacking them. If Mexico invaded Texas in this scenario and slaughtered 1200 people and kidnapped over 300 then yea we would absolutely be attacking them.
as far as Trump goes with Ukraine Russia idk why any expected anything different than what’s currently going on. Trump was never going to end the war on day one or any day after that. He’s on Putins dick. Russia will not back down unless Ukraine gives up control of the occupied regions which is never going to happen. Ukraine won’t back down until Russia stops invading their sovereign nation which isn’t going to happen.
JuviticusDoing if doing so by any means envolves collective punishment, than you support collective punishment. It doesn't stop being collective punishment because you deem it justified.
Parrot enough for ya?
Also I like how you keep saying I support Hamas, further evidence you can't read because I explicitly stated I don't
Having an active military offensive to return innocent hostages isn’t punishment. It’s a course of action to return innocent civilians that were kidnapped by a terrorist group and are actively being held in a neighboring foreign country against their will. again you can keep parroting nonsense but it doesn’t change anything. I laid it out for you clear as day. I do not support any punishment if the hostages are returned. End of story full stop.
I say you support Hamas because you keep trying to blame Israel for trying to return their citizens that are being held by Hamas in Palestine. It’s really simply. Return the hostages and surrender and the military offensive stops and innocent Palestinians stop dying in mass. You keep trying to blame Israel for getting their people home. You haven’t once said anything to the contrary
PartyBullshiitBoth sides have been consistently attacking each other. Prior to Hamas it was suicide bombings regularly occurring in Israel. Once Hamas took power it became constant rocket attacks across the boarder. That’s why I said both sides were in the wrong over the years but there was nothing ever to the level of oct 7th which was unprecedented up until that point.
so yes that level of genocide was absolutely unprovoked. Which is why Israel responded with the force they have. That’s why I’ve only been commenting on what’s happened post Oct 7th. Prior to that it was a shit show on both sides with neither country being in the right. Palestinians hated Jews and Jews hated Palestinians and round and round we went.
I wouldn't say that genocide is the appropriate term here. If you want to compare numbers, in the last 2 years roughly 2000 Israelis and over 75000 Palestinians/ hamas have been killed, that’s 35:1. Israel's active military personnel out number hamas 3 to 1.
To claim it s unprovoked or overkill for the situation and that hamas should just take it laying down is a little ignorant to the situation pre and post Oct 7.
JuviticusDoing if doing so by any means envolves collective punishment, than you support collective punishment. It doesn't stop being collective punishment because you deem it justified.
Parrot enough for ya?
Also I like how you keep saying I support Hamas, further evidence you can't read because I explicitly stated I don't
PoikenzI wouldn't say that genocide is the appropriate term here. If you want to compare numbers, in the last 2 years roughly 2000 Israelis and over 75000 Palestinians/ hamas have been killed, that’s 35:1. Israel's active military personnel out number hamas 3 to 1.
To claim it s unprovoked or overkill for the situation and that hamas should just take it laying down is a little ignorant to the situation pre and post Oct 7.
Killing 1200 in a single day majority being innocent civilians is absolutely genocide. Please show me 1 instance where Israel did anything even remotely close to the proportions in a single day. As I’ve said to others don’t worry I’ll wait.
compared to any event that’s taken place prior to Oct 7 on a single day it was absolutely unprovoked and overkill by every measure.
I’ve stated multiple times Israel by no means is innocent in things they’ve done pre Oct 7th. Up until that point it’s was back and forth by both sides. Hamas just decided to take it to a whole other level by which no conflict was ever even comparable. They’re dealing with the consequences now.
PartyBullshiitKilling 1200 in a single day majority being innocent civilians is absolutely genocide. Please show me 1 instance where Israel did anything even remotely close to the proportions in a single day. As I’ve said to others don’t worry I’ll wait.
compared to any event that’s taken place prior to Oct 7 on a single day it was absolutely unprovoked and overkill by every measure.
I’ve stated multiple times Israel by no means is innocent in things they’ve done pre Oct 7th. Up until that point it’s was back and forth by both sides. Hamas just decided to take it to a whole other level by which no conflict was ever even comparable. They’re dealing with the consequences now.
What difference does a single day make though? Why does that even matter when the numbers over time clearly put Palestinians having the greatest loss of life?
JuviticusWhat difference does a single day make though? Why does that even matter when the numbers over time clearly put Palestinians having the greatest loss of life?
Because that single day is why we have the situation we do. Let’s stop pretending otherwise. The massive loss of life of Palestinians was a direct result of the attacks on Oct 7.
simply look at the numbers killed yearly prior to Oct 7. A quick google searched showed about 234 where killed by idf strikes the year before Oct 7. Still too many there is no argument there.
now do a search for the amount who have died since Oct 7. Numbers range but most have it around 50k.
so is Oct 7 didn’t occur you’re talking about around 47k Palestinians that likely wouldn’t have died. Cause and effect. One doesn’t hasn’t without the other.
PartyBullshiitBecause that single day is why we have the situation we do. Let’s stop pretending otherwise. The massive loss of life of Palestinians was a direct result of the attacks on Oct 7.
simply look at the numbers killed yearly prior to Oct 7. A quick google searched showed about 234 where killed by idf strikes the year before Oct 7. Still too many there is no argument there.
now do a search for the amount who have died since Oct 7. Numbers range but most have it around 50k.
so is Oct 7 didn’t occur you’re talking about around 47k Palestinians that likely wouldn’t have died. Cause and effect. One doesn’t hasn’t without the other.
I feel like I should address that I totally agree with you that if Oct 7th didn't happen, Gaza wouldn't be in the situation it's currently in. And that's all down to the actions of Hamas who did commit war crimes that day no doubt. But Hamas is a terrorist organization and Israel is a democracy that has the ability and responsibility to not commit war crimes on civilians, yet that's what it's doing to the people in Gaza. Regardless of who "started it" or what was the main trigger, I just cannot support the level of indiscriminate violence and war crimes that Israel is subjecting Palestine to every single day for the last year plus
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 6:10:39pm
JuviticusI feel like I should address that I totally agree with you that if Oct 7th didn't happen, Gaza wouldn't be in the situation it's currently in. And that's all down to the actions of Hamas who did commit war crimes that day no doubt. But Hamas is a terrorist organization and Israel is a democracy that has the ability and responsibility to not commit war crimes on civilians, yet that's what it's doing to the people in Gaza. Regardless of who "started it" or what was the main trigger, I just cannot support the level of indiscriminate violence and war crimes that Israel is subjecting Palestine to every single day for the last year plus
**This post was edited on Jun 28th 2025 at 6:10:39pm
And I’ll say that’s a completely respectable and responsible take.
PartyBullshiitKilling 1200 in a single day majority being innocent civilians is absolutely genocide. Please show me 1 instance where Israel did anything even remotely close to the proportions in a single day. As I’ve said to others don’t worry I’ll wait.
compared to any event that’s taken place prior to Oct 7 on a single day it was absolutely unprovoked and overkill by every measure.
I’ve stated multiple times Israel by no means is innocent in things they’ve done pre Oct 7th. Up until that point it’s was back and forth by both sides. Hamas just decided to take it to a whole other level by which no conflict was ever even comparable. They’re dealing with the consequences now.
You are right, it is the largest amount of casualties in a single day. If you feel that Israel blocking aid to Gaza during the cease fire (which they promised not to do), killing an average of 250 people a day in the Gaza strip over the past 1.5 years, killing roughly 20000 children in that same span, or displacing nearly 2 million Palestinians doesn't deserve some form of retaliation or consequences as well, right or wrong, then there is nothing more to say.
PartyBullshiitHaving an active military offensive to return innocent hostages isn’t punishment. It’s a course of action to return innocent civilians that were kidnapped by a terrorist group and are actively being held in a neighboring foreign country against their will. again you can keep parroting nonsense but it doesn’t change anything. I laid it out for you clear as day. I do not support any punishment if the hostages are returned. End of story full stop.
I say you support Hamas because you keep trying to blame Israel for trying to return their citizens that are being held by Hamas in Palestine. It’s really simply. Return the hostages and surrender and the military offensive stops and innocent Palestinians stop dying in mass. You keep trying to blame Israel for getting their people home. You haven’t once said anything to the contrary
Wouldn't you think a better course of action would be to have a more precise response with less civilian casualties. Killing civilians just radicalizes more civilians and will keep this bullshit going on forever with no hope of it ever ending.
If Israel was doing that and stopped all expansion of their borders id have no problem supporting them.
Do you think if the hostages were returned Israel would keep their end of the bargain and pull out of Gaza like they claimed?
Israel is aggressive at the least and they want to show they're in control through force which is definitely questionable.
he West Bank of Palestine / Israel used to be a major conflict zone during the 2000's - intifada. Not to get preachy but 've been there twice in the past 10 years and it's starting to flourish. It's certainly not a first world country yet but with some cooperation and less aggression there is some legit industry and tourism ramping up.
West Bank Palestine has by far the best food. They have historical sites like Bethlehem and Jericho and they're realizing they can create an industry around that where the locals and government can capitalize on it. The less aggression (from both sides) creates the best economy.
a few decades ago all the war was in the Western Bank of Israel/Palestine. But with tourists feeling more and more comfortable the money starts to trickle in slowly and until Oct 7 it was regular. People feel comfortable visiting the modern day Palestine that remains.
Cairo was similar. They went through a revolution in 2010-2011 and since then it's been safer and tourism has flourished. Tourism flourishing creates economic opportunities for everyone.
There's a saying that stuck with me when I was over there: "same same, but different"
Everyone wants to provide for their families, nobody wants to feel oppressed, and the more money that comes in the better everyone is.
I could go on and on about backpacking through the middleeast and taking a van from Aqaba through Israel, the Sinai to Cairo.
TLDR;
People in the Middleeast are the kindest and hardest working people I've met anywhere. They make the best tasting food and they are true to their traditions and religions. Shit you see on TV in America is 95% bullshit.
TOAST.Wouldn't you think a better course of action would be to have a more precise response with less civilian casualties. Killing civilians just radicalizes more civilians and will keep this bullshit going on forever with no hope of it ever ending.
If Israel was doing that and stopped all expansion of their borders id have no problem supporting them.
VTshredder69Do you think if the hostages were returned Israel would keep their end of the bargain and pull out of Gaza like they claimed?
Israel is aggressive at the least and they want to show they're in control through force which is definitely questionable.
he West Bank of Palestine / Israel used to be a major conflict zone during the 2000's - intifada. Not to get preachy but 've been there twice in the past 10 years and it's starting to flourish. It's certainly not a first world country yet but with some cooperation and less aggression there is some legit industry and tourism ramping up.
West Bank Palestine has by far the best food. They have historical sites like Bethlehem and Jericho and they're realizing they can create an industry around that where the locals and government can capitalize on it. The less aggression (from both sides) creates the best economy.
a few decades ago all the war was in the Western Bank of Israel/Palestine. But with tourists feeling more and more comfortable the money starts to trickle in slowly and until Oct 7 it was regular. People feel comfortable visiting the modern day Palestine that remains.
Cairo was similar. They went through a revolution in 2010-2011 and since then it's been safer and tourism has flourished. Tourism flourishing creates economic opportunities for everyone.
There's a saying that stuck with me when I was over there: "same same, but different"
Everyone wants to provide for their families, nobody wants to feel oppressed, and the more money that comes in the better everyone is.
I could go on and on about backpacking through the middleeast and taking a van from Aqaba through Israel, the Sinai to Cairo.
TLDR;
People in the Middleeast are the kindest and hardest working people I've met anywhere. They make the best tasting food and they are true to their traditions and religions. Shit you see on TV in America is 95% bullshit.
If the hostages were returned and nothing else Israel would absolutely stop their current military campaign, but they would 100% not stop full military action as they would use the continued aggression and potential growth of Hamas as their excuse to keep a military presence in the country.
if the hostages were returned and Hamas surrendered (never going to happen) then I could see a very high chance of Israel pulling out fully and committing to a full cease fire.
I was raised Jewish because my mother is Jewish, I’ve been to Israel 6 times across my life. Did my birthright trip, went with my mother a second time, my mother and my grandmother a third time, then with my best friend 3 times to stay with his family as he’s an Israeli living in the states but still has roots in Israel. I haven’t been in 10 years at this point as when the conflicts really started to pick up again especially with the rocket attacks I decided rather stay home and safe.
the climate has changed dramatically population wise and threat wise. Like you mentioned there has been a large influx of capital which has helped a lot of things but at the same time made things worse. It’s causes tension with some money being funneled to Palestinians upsetting Israeli populations (not saying that’s right)
like you said Palestinians and Arabs living in Israel are actually very thankful and happy to be living there. Even with the rise of discrimination (absolutely not ok) it’s still the place they want to be over the alternatives
PartyBullshiitIf the hostages were returned and nothing else Israel would absolutely stop their current military campaign, but they would 100% not stop full military action as they would use the continued aggression and potential growth of Hamas as their excuse to keep a military presence in the country.
if the hostages were returned and Hamas surrendered (never going to happen) then I could see a very high chance of Israel pulling out fully and committing to a full cease fire.
I was raised Jewish because my mother is Jewish, I’ve been to Israel 6 times across my life. Did my birthright trip, went with my mother a second time, my mother and my grandmother a third time, then with my best friend 3 times to stay with his family as he’s an Israeli living in the states but still has roots in Israel. I haven’t been in 10 years at this point as when the conflicts really started to pick up again especially with the rocket attacks I decided rather stay home and safe.
the climate has changed dramatically population wise and threat wise. Like you mentioned there has been a large influx of capital which has helped a lot of things but at the same time made things worse. It’s causes tension with some money being funneled to Palestinians upsetting Israeli populations (not saying that’s right)
like you said Palestinians and Arabs living in Israel are actually very thankful and happy to be living there. Even with the rise of discrimination (absolutely not ok) it’s still the place they want to be over the alternatives
Hell ya man. My neighbors growing up were Israeli and I dated the coolest girl who brought me there in 2006. I'm not Jewish which is why I think her dad eventually cut me off but we're still friends. Coolest family. I became friends with two of her brothers who served in IDF and now are in reserves. One just left Gaza. After my first trip with her (she lives in CO now) I had to go back three more times on my own to visit her family and to attend her younger sisters wedding.
Her family is in Oranit, Herzliya and Tel Aviv and i just hopped from house to house to stay for a few weeks - nicest people in the world.
Hope this shit ends because i'd like to see Jerusalem again and get into Egypt to check out Memphis and Luxor next.
I'm raised Christian but never fully bought into it but I just read a book about the City of David that is being excavated that correlates almost entirely with the old testament. Shit is fascinating AF.
No issues with Islam at all... but when you admit to being an Abrahamic religion and hating the only state for Jewish people something doesn't sound right to me.
I think it boils down to government and shitty reporting - and that definitely includes America.
SteezyYeeterI wonder why - Israel's been nothing but nice to them! (Definitely haven't done that exact thing)
Because Muslims believe their religion is the only true religion and anyone who doesn’t follow the prophet Mohamed should be killed. Including death to America. Jews are the closest non Muslim state to them. After Jews its death to America. I know you’re young and dumb but try being not so dumb.
PartyBullshiitBecause Muslims believe their religion is the only true religion and anyone who doesn’t follow the prophet Mohamed should be killed. Including death to America. Jews are the closest non Muslim state to them. After Jews its death to America. I know you’re young and dumb but try being not so dumb.
The jews aren't too found of the gentiles either let's be real here.
PartyBullshiitYou seem to forget what caused the current crisis. it was hamas coming into Israel from Palestine and committing mass genocide. Taking hostages and dragging them through the streets of Palestine while the “average person” cheered and Changed death to the Jews from the river to the sea
this was the average Palestine.
let’s stop pretending like Israel just start destroying Palestine for absolutely no reason. You’re over simplifying things.
To be honest, I think our understanding of this situation is very different and based on different sources, so we're probably not gonna see eye to eye on it. I agree with what @Juviticus has been saying, so might be best to agree to disagree on this one.
BiffbarfThe jews aren't too found of the gentiles either let's be real here.
As someone who was raised in a Jewish household with a very Jewish family, Jews don’t think gentiles should be put death for not following the Jewish faith like Muslims do. Jews just think you’re lower class trash for not following the Jewish religion. Muslims thing anyone who doesn’t follow the prophet Mohamed should die. Huge difference