So These Fast Food Crusaders Might Actually Get Their $15 An Hour?

mirozHypothetical situation - I'm not economist, but these are my thoughts.
An employer currently needs M people on the job to adequately meet customer demand. He pays them minimum wage. If the minimum wage was to increase but customer demand was to remain the same, he would still need M people. The employer is now faced with added labor cost. The employer could increase his prices, but this would result in one of two things: 1) the customer demand stays the same even with higher prices, and so M employees are still required at any one time to meet that demand, or 2) the customer demand decreases due to increased prices, and the employer may choose to decrease the number of employees in order continue making the same profit.

The only reason that the employer would decrease the number of employees on the floor at any given time would be if customer demand dropped. The reason customer demand would drop would be from increased prices. Would a business (fast food franchise, ski shop, or otherwise) raise its prices if faced with a new minimum wage? Would that actually decrease customer demand? I'd expect that the extent to which a fast food restaurant would have to raise prices would be small relative to the amount required to deter people from eating there. For ski shops and local businesses, I'd expect most people understand the cost of good service and are willing to pay it. For (a cherrypicked) example, the ski shop at which I used to work once added $10-20 dollars to the cost of binding mounts and tunes. As far as I know, they performed no fewer mounts/tunes after making those adjustments.

Thoughts? Am I missing something?

There is no definite answer to what would happen, rather only hypothesis. You have listed one, but then you have also missed a key aspect of economics: efficiency. Businesses will operate in the most efficient manner possible.

For instance, lets take a look at the manufacturing process for skis. By increasing the minimum wage there will be a domino effect. The labor used to gather the wood cores and other materials to produce the skis is now increased, the labor used to make the skis subsequently is increased, and the labor to transport those skis must follow suit. You now have increased almost every input into creating these skis. Using human labor may not longer be the most profitable manner in which to make skis. An alternative is automation which is becoming increasingly popular in the manufacturing industry.

If the cost of using X workers to do Y amount of work at $15/hr is only marginally more cost efficient than the cost of automizing the process, then the wage increase will have minimal effect. But if it is not, then you will see these workers being laid off and being replaced by a more cost-efficient process.

Basically, in simple economics terms, you could see a shift in the marginal product of labor curve.

S.J.WWhat people that work at ski shops, bike shops, etc,etc are trying to support their family? Personally I think with this wage increase that a family trying to put food on their table is more important than little joey waxing skis so he can afford alcohol and new skis.

See my post above. The effect of this wage increase is felt by everyone and can result in companies and supply chains becoming more efficient by changing human labor amounts.

.MASSHOLE.There is no definite answer to what would happen, rather only hypothesis. You have listed one, but then you have also missed a key aspect of economics: efficiency. Businesses will operate in the most efficient manner possible.

For instance, lets take a look at the manufacturing process for skis. By increasing the minimum wage there will be a domino effect. The labor used to gather the wood cores and other materials to produce the skis is now increased, the labor used to make the skis subsequently is increased, and the labor to transport those skis must follow suit. You now have increased almost every input into creating these skis. Using human labor may not longer be the most profitable manner in which to make skis. An alternative is automation which is becoming increasingly popular in the manufacturing industry.

If the cost of using X workers to do Y amount of work at $15/hr is only marginally more cost efficient than the cost of automizing the process, then the wage increase will have minimal effect. But if it is not, then you will see these workers being laid off and being replaced by a more cost-efficient process.

Basically, in simple economics terms, you could see a shift in the marginal product of labor curve.

Certainly only hypotheses - hence why I posed a hypothetical situation. Economics is a highly inexact study. Nonetheless, your counter example is good and is certainly relevant at the low-skill jobs where minimum wage tends to be paid. For smaller, local businesses, I might expect that automation is out of the question. I would expect that automation comes at a large initial cost, but the iterations thereafter are probably very cheap. When you have a huge network of franchises like McDonalds, you can spread the cost of automation. A local store might not be able to do that now.

Regardless, because I'm pretty uninformed, I don't know very many alternatives. Let me ask you this: What, if anything, should be done to help those working minimum wage and trying to support themselves and/or their families? If they're poor, they're already in a very low tax bracket - tax cuts won't really help them because they don't make much money in the first place. If nothing is done and the current situation is maintained, then they continue living in squalor and their population likely increases.

The following two questions should be addressed by those advocating for a minimum wage.

1. Is it the responsibility of the US tax payer to pull people out of poverty or is it reasonable to expect people to use their own initiative to do so?

2. If it is the responsibility of the US population to pull people out of poverty, is a higher minimum wage the best way to do so? What are the long term and short term effects of legally forcing employers to pay more for the same work?


I think I have mixed opinions on the responsibility of poverty, but strongly believe a higher minimum wage is a poor way to address it.

mirozCertainly only hypotheses - hence why I posed a hypothetical situation. Economics is a highly inexact study. Nonetheless, your counter example is good and is certainly relevant at the low-skill jobs where minimum wage tends to be paid. For smaller, local businesses, I might expect that automation is out of the question. I would expect that automation comes at a large initial cost, but the iterations thereafter are probably very cheap. When you have a huge network of franchises like McDonalds, you can spread the cost of automation. A local store might not be able to do that now.

Regardless, because I'm pretty uninformed, I don't know very many alternatives. Let me ask you this: What, if anything, should be done to help those working minimum wage and trying to support themselves and/or their families? If they're poor, they're already in a very low tax bracket - tax cuts won't really help them because they don't make much money in the first place. If nothing is done and the current situation is maintained, then they continue living in squalor and their population likely increases.

Exactly, it is a very inexact social science but people seem to expect it to generate the results people predict. It rarely ever does to be honest.

It certainly won't affect local businesses directly but it could through the supply chain or other parts of the economy. Thats what is worrisome for a lot of local businesses, whether or not they can scale at the same rate. It is similar to Obamacare, it has generated good for many but there are those who have fallen through the cracks, seen their business affected, and caused more strife than good.

Honestly, I don't have an answer to that, nor does anyone else, people can only hypothesize. I haven't really come across a singular theory I truly like that does not have its downfalls. It will most likely have to be a combination of raising the minimum wage, taxation, incentives to return jobs to the US, and social support systems. But again the question that pervades every policymaker's mind rises; how much?

mirozCertainly only hypotheses - hence why I posed a hypothetical situation. Economics is a highly inexact study. Nonetheless, your counter example is good and is certainly relevant at the low-skill jobs where minimum wage tends to be paid. For smaller, local businesses, I might expect that automation is out of the question. I would expect that automation comes at a large initial cost, but the iterations thereafter are probably very cheap. When you have a huge network of franchises like McDonalds, you can spread the cost of automation. A local store might not be able to do that now.

Regardless, because I'm pretty uninformed, I don't know very many alternatives. Let me ask you this: What, if anything, should be done to help those working minimum wage and trying to support themselves and/or their families? If they're poor, they're already in a very low tax bracket - tax cuts won't really help them because they don't make much money in the first place. If nothing is done and the current situation is maintained, then they continue living in squalor and their population likely increases.

This is a great article from the NYT about the potential raise in wage rate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/27/business/economy/scale-of-minimum-wage-rise-has-experts-guessing-at-effect.html

Why are people so mean on here to those beneath them in society?

Its shameful that the haters in this thread who for the most part earn around 15 an hour are jealous of people they deem inferior employees making that amount. If you weren't a joke you'd see those people getting 15 an hour as a sign that you would be getting 20.


Im not really that nice of a person either remember from the previous attacks in this thread Im the professional ticket scalper who skis close to 100 days a year sympathizing with these poor bastards Im not really one of capitalism's losers looking for a pay bump. How can the majority of newschoolers honestly be against this its terrifying?

.MASSHOLE.This is a great article from the NYT about the potential raise in wage rate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/27/business/economy/scale-of-minimum-wage-rise-has-experts-guessing-at-effect.html

Great article indeed, thank you! And leave it to the NYT to have a mostly sensible comments section. One of the ideas in there that seemed interesting to me was the following:

"The issue is productivity has risen dramatically, but the gains are not shared with employees, only top executives. This is easily fixed, simply create a legal ratio that cannot be exceeded between the highest paid and lowest paid employees of any organization. For example, the top earner in any company can only make 25x more than the lowest earner ($1M for CEO : $40k minimum for employee).

Benefits:

- Rewards all employees who are contributing to a firms’ success
- Does not cost a firm anything (simply a different distribution of profits)
- An economic driver, since lower wage earners spend a higher percentage of their earnings

Fixing income inequality is the key to driving economic growth. As has been proven by the last few decades, the market will never “self-correct” this inequality, its going to require policy leadership."

cobra_commanderThe following two questions should be addressed by those advocating for a minimum wage.

1. Is it the responsibility of the US tax payer to pull people out of poverty or is it reasonable to expect people to use their own initiative to do so?

2. If it is the responsibility of the US population to pull people out of poverty, is a higher minimum wage the best way to do so? What are the long term and short term effects of legally forcing employers to pay more for the same work?


I think I have mixed opinions on the responsibility of poverty, but strongly believe a higher minimum wage is a poor way to address it.

With the current system of welfare in the US. It does not pull people out of poverty, but rathter give them a very low level of life to where they can't invest in education, etc because they need to work 2 or 3 jobs to put a roof over their head. So I wouldn't put it on the taxpayer to pull them out of poverty but rather just raise the minium wage so they don't need to work 2 or 3 jobs and they can invest in education to pull themselves out of poverty.

You can't just throw money to the poor and think that they will magically become educated and have a set of skills in demand. What you can do however is make education free and a higher mininium wage so that barrier of "well my tuition will be 40 grand and I make 7:45 an hour can I really afford that" is gone. And there is no barrier to education and imporving your life.

I'd just like to say fuck all the politicians who are swayed by cash. Those politicians are the ones who really ruin my good ol' usa.

$15 an hour for lemonade stands, mowing lawns, delivering newspapers, and everything else.

Everybody deserves a living wage for every job. The fact that you could probably live on any of those doesn't even matter, it's all about first world problems. At some points, people actually fucking struggled today, their are so many safety nets, so many alternatives, it's kind of a joke.


Seriously though. Maybe your kid is 5 so you think earning 2 bucks an hour maybe is okay, but what if somebody is doing that while trying to raise a family?

Minimum wage, every job! Because we care and stuff!

cobra_commanderThe following two questions should be addressed by those advocating for a minimum wage.

1. Is it the responsibility of the US tax payer to pull people out of poverty or is it reasonable to expect people to use their own initiative to do so?

2. If it is the responsibility of the US population to pull people out of poverty, is a higher minimum wage the best way to do so? What are the long term and short term effects of legally forcing employers to pay more for the same work?


I think I have mixed opinions on the responsibility of poverty, but strongly believe a higher minimum wage is a poor way to address it.

1. Considering that there are people who are born into straight up poverty, and don't have access to the same tools available to those more fortunate (or white) in order to use their own initiative to pull them out of the doldrums, then yes... it is the responsibility of all of us to help those in need to be able to achieve as much as possible. To reverse the question, is it fair to expect one who was born into nothing, and born non-white (again, lets just be honest about white priv. here because it's definitely a thing) to be able to bootstrap it with the same initiative and hard work in order to just put food on the table as one who was born with a trust-fund might in order to start some amazing business with millions of dollars of capital to start with?

2. I don't think minimum wage is the best or the only way, but it's simply PART of the plan. It's not supposed to be a grand fix-it-all. It's a band-aid.. and though that might be frustrating to many, it's at least going to make things easier for some in the short-term

besides. We really don't spend that much on the poor to begin with...

as far as I'm concerned, we don't spend jack shit... so another 28 pennys a year (or whatever I pay towards welfare - even in the most expensive state in the country) out of my pocket isn't putting me in the red in any way shape or form.

I'm WAY more angry about the money going towards the bank bailouts and crap when it comes to shit that I shouldn't be responsible for... like 800 times angrier...

DingoSean1. Considering that there are people who are born into straight up poverty, and don't have access to the same tools available to those more fortunate (or white) in order to use their own initiative to pull them out of the doldrums, then yes... it is the responsibility of all of us to help those in need to be able to achieve as much as possible. To reverse the question, is it fair to expect one who was born into nothing, and born non-white (again, lets just be honest about white priv. here because it's definitely a thing) to be able to bootstrap it with the same initiative and hard work in order to just put food on the table as one who was born with a trust-fund might in order to start some amazing business with millions of dollars of capital to start with?

2. I don't think minimum wage is the best or the only way, but it's simply PART of the plan. It's not supposed to be a grand fix-it-all. It's a band-aid.. and though that might be frustrating to many, it's at least going to make things easier for some in the short-term

besides. We really don't spend that much on the poor to begin with...

as far as I'm concerned, we don't spend jack shit... so another 28 pennys a year (or whatever I pay towards welfare - even in the most expensive state in the country) out of my pocket isn't putting me in the red in any way shape or form.

I'm WAY more angry about the money going towards the bank bailouts and crap when it comes to shit that I shouldn't be responsible for... like 800 times angrier...

The main way to get people out of poverty is to put all that money towards good education in those areas. The lack of education is what's causing these problems.

nocturnalThe main way to get people out of poverty is to put all that money towards good education in those areas. The lack of education is what's causing these problems.

I agree. The places that need $ being pumped into the education system the most get almost nothing.

cobra_commanderThe following two questions should be addressed by those advocating for a minimum wage.

1. Is it the responsibility of the US tax payer to pull people out of poverty or is it reasonable to expect people to use their own initiative to do so?

2. If it is the responsibility of the US population to pull people out of poverty, is a higher minimum wage the best way to do so? What are the long term and short term effects of legally forcing employers to pay more for the same work?


I think I have mixed opinions on the responsibility of poverty, but strongly believe a higher minimum wage is a poor way to address it.

1. No its the responsibility of people working hard, showing up, doing their job, to pull themselves out of poverty. Increasing the minimum wage will decrease the burden on taxpayers, because it allows for the people who are working to not need government assistance.

People who work for these large corporate entities, working for minimum wage and needing benefits from the government to not go hungry... That is the taxpayer subsidizing these businesses.

2. Its the responsibility of people to pull themselves out of poverty, and working full time should be able to do that, not keep people in poverty. It is one step of many that must be taken to tackle the issue of poverty we face in the US today.

nocturnalThe main way to get people out of poverty is to put all that money towards good education in those areas. The lack of education is what's causing these problems.

That's a large part of it, yes, but it's not the end-all-be-all. There are plenty of other factors that need to be fixed.

So many things about those who are impoverished have been stigmatized "Oh, they're poor because they don't work hard" or "oh they just don't want to work, and this is all welfare will give them" are things you hear people say... as long as stuff like that is in play, how the hell are folks like these supposed to move up in the world?

Just watch (or read) the pursuit of happyness, for example. To be able to get a job that many people take for granted in getting, the guy had to put sleep in subway stations with his son, and probably eat nothing all day - all without anything guaranteed, and without much pay if any.

If thats the kinda bullshit that somebody like that has to put up with to be the one dude that makes it, then holy shit - that's way way too much sacrifice , all without a single guarantee that it would actually lead to anything significant.

theabortionatorI agree. The places that need $ being pumped into the education system the most get almost nothing.

No not really its a cultural problem amongst minorities that studying and school is uncool and hood shit is.


Sad but true they screw themselves no matter how much someone like dingo would LOVE to blame it on wealthy Caucasians.



Again though I don't even hate Im someone who is all about a person that qualifies after working a job long enough collecting their Funemployment for 18 months and burning fat Ls on the couch and coppin some me time you earned it. Life isn't easy most people are solid and are out there grinding its time governments DO SOMETHING FOR THEIR PEOPLE and equipping a shitty ass army like Men In Black Will Smith shit is going down instead of letting folks in need get cash or see a doctor isn't cool with me.


I cant player hate on nobody Im someone who has spent an entire winter living in the Peppermill and Grand Seirra without a job calling in once a week for free Obama paper and selling my Bruins seson tickets on the hub and was flossing at the time betting hundreds a game in the sportsbook while skiing and having an epic pass that is what it is all about NOT waking up early to do what some fuckhead tells you for less compensation than negroes in the 1800 in the south got and if you can't pay your bills that is what your shitty ass job is.

Everybody needs a little piece of the American dream you go 15s and we can all get down I always feel bad for the people pouring my coffee and stuff everyones usually nice lesser off folks deserve better.

Lets just raise it to 50

An article from the Economist breaking down the divide of opinion on the effects of raising the minimum wage.

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21659714-large-increases-minimum-wage-could-have-severe-long-term-effects-destination?fsrc=scn%2Ftw%2Fte%2Fpe%2Fed%2FDestinationUnknown

You guys stomp a party line like no other. Vote for your own best interest, getting paid more, and not paying for others benefits. That is raising the minimum wage. Dont drink the kool-aid.

Listen to the people attempting to support themselves and their families on these poverty wages. Not politicians who grew up getting their asses wiped with benjamins. I dont expect any of you to understand, I would assume most of you grew up very white and very middle-upper class, and most of your parents probably did too, if they struggled they struggled in a time with better safety nets, pay, and cheaper education than we now have.

Shit isnt easy for poor people, and its never going to be. But when you live in the richest country the earth has ever seen, working a full time job should gurantee you can put food on the table and a roof over your head without needing additional assistance.

ndyeYou guys stomp a party line like no other. Vote for your own best interest, getting paid more, and not paying for others benefits. That is raising the minimum wage. Dont drink the kool-aid.

Listen to the people attempting to support themselves and their families on these poverty wages. Not politicians who grew up getting their asses wiped with benjamins. I dont expect any of you to understand, I would assume most of you grew up very white and very middle-upper class, and most of your parents probably did too, if they struggled they struggled in a time with better safety nets, pay, and cheaper education than we now have.

Shit isnt easy for poor people, and its never going to be. But when you live in the richest country the earth has ever seen, working a full time job should gurantee you can put food on the table and a roof over your head without needing additional assistance.

Yeah. Down with the corporations. Power to the people.

And killing it on that assumption bro.

As far as education. The government backed loans make it easy for colleges to charge whatever they want, driving up the cost of education. Then the fact that college is more about the "college experience" than education these days. But government backing loans to help people get into school sounds better.

I think we should stop calling america the richest country in the world. The standard of living here blows, our government is rolling us around in debt, I really don't care if some people have some money. America is dildos is a lot of ways.

It doesn't matter, the minimum wage will probably get to 15 or 16 in the next 5 or so years. The economy will still blow, and America will still be far more mediocre than it could be, or people admit it is.

YOLO

ndyeListen to the people attempting to support themselves and their families on these poverty wages.

I did, and then I told them to go get a job that pays higher... They looked astonished that they should have to do something, most felt entitled to whatever what they want.

cobra_commanderI did, and then I told them to go get a job that pays higher... They looked astonished that they should have to do something, most felt entitled to whatever what they want.

I didn't realize it Was so Simple! I'm going to go get A higher paying job now

ndyeI didn't realize it Was so Simple! I'm going to go get A higher paying job now

If youre willing to do work hard, it really is pretty simple. There are so many manual labor jobs out there for the taking. But people would rather work an easy job paying less than half the pay because theyre lazy

ndyeI didn't realize it Was so Simple! I'm going to go get A higher paying job now

It is simple. Not easy, but yes simple.

.Hugo.If youre willing to do work hard, it really is pretty simple. There are so many manual labor jobs out there for the taking. But people would rather work an easy job paying less than half the pay because theyre lazy

Please direct me towards this plethora of high paying manual labor jobs requiring no experience so that I can see them, I would love to get involved.

cobra_commanderIt is simple. Not easy, but yes simple.

Not easy? Would you say harder than ever before? I mean on paper becoming a doctor is easy. Take out loans -> pass the proper tests -> more loans -> medical school -> doctor.

I am currently making $12/hr in Idaho with a job that requires a Bachelor's degree and receives hundreds of applicants for a single opening. I legitimately could not move up beyond a shitty 7 month term employment (i.e. staff level job) without at least a Master's degree. And those folks, with a Master's, if they can even get a job here start out at probably 30k a year, so $15/hr.

Even on $12/hr with super frugal living I am barely saving any money. It took me 2 full years out of college just to finally get a position like this.

I am totally for a raise in minimum wage, but it needs to be across the board. Why is it that recent graduates especially get royally fucked with an ultra competitive work force, where the demand is so high for jobs people are willing to accept low, shitty pay or volunteer for free?

In my opinion, the whole economy is still fucked and hasn't improved all that much from 2008/2009.

ndyeNot easy? Would you say harder than ever before?

I can't speak to whether it is harder or not than ever before, however, I have not worked a minimum wage job since I was 16, the jobs I worked through high school and college did not require any thing other than constantly showing up on time and staying focused at work. There were plenty of people for whom these requirements were too much, most went back to minimum wage jobs. Deal with it.

No I don't do sympathy, if you got a problem with your life, fix it, don't whine to the government to fix it for you.

cobra_commanderI can't speak to whether it is harder or not than ever before, however, I have not worked a minimum wage job since I was 16, the jobs I worked through high school and college did not require any thing other than constantly showing up on time and staying focused at work. There were plenty of people for whom these requirements were too much, most went back to minimum wage jobs. Deal with it.

No I don't do sympathy, if you got a problem with your life, fix it, don't whine to the government to fix it for you.

Youre from a well off island community off the coast of Washington. It doesnt suprise me youre doing well.

Its the classic, I did it myself (growing up in a well off family in a relatively rich area) everyone else can do it themselves.

For that, you truly show that you dont understand what is happening in areas outside of your glorious little bubble.

cobra_commanderIt is simple. Not easy, but yes simple.

You are suffering from a common privilege problem.

I offer you a short comic to understand this.

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate

ndyeYou are suffering from a common privilege problem.

This is my new favorite bs liberal argument. "Sorry you can't understand based on your privilege"

Lets just use a convenient word to exclude people who disagree with us from the conversation. The liberal version of diversity is quickly turning to be only skin deep. What a fucking farce. I used to be a staunch self proclaimed liberal by the way, but the fucking movement ran away on the stupid idealist train.

You also know fuck all about where I am from or what my family history is.

cobra_commanderThis is my new favorite bs liberal argument. "Sorry you can't understand based on your privilege"

Lets just use a convenient word to exclude people who disagree with us from the conversation. The liberal version of diversity is quickly turning to be only skin deep. What a fucking farce. I used to be a staunch self proclaimed liberal by the way, but the fucking movement ran away on the stupid idealist train.

You also know fuck all about where I am from or what my family history is.

I took what I know about you from your region on your profile, indeed, I do not know your true story. I can tell from the arguments you make that you are deeply out of touch with the reality of growing up in large portions of this country.

Don't need to know your story to be able to tell that.

I can tell you like to ignore a lot of socio-economic factors when making your argument, and instead go to your as you say "idealist" way of looking at the country, which is work hard and anyone can make it no questions asked.

Give the people a reasonable ladder to climb, and people will climb it.

Youre a classic republican idealist, and it doesn't surprise me that the arguments from your party lines are weak. After all 1 in 5 of registered republicans has Trump as their top pick.

Give me some facts to support your ideals, give me some large examples of success of these ideals, show me a reason why the lower income earners in this country arent being exploited by some of these profitious corporations making all time profits and passing none of it on to the workers. The shrinking middle management of the country, decreasing pay for everyone out of the corporate sphere, the loss of manufacturing by these terrible trade agreements that only benefit the top, tax cuts to the rich far beyond even what Reagan had.

You sir, are oblivious to what is happening around you and what is happening in this country.

You support people on food stamps who are employed by companies who are effectively using you, the taxpayer, to subsidize the pay of their employees via government programs. They profit at historic levels, and pay little in taxes back into it. They need to fucking pay these people a living wage, so that people who are working dont need to burden the middle class of America. You are defending this notion based off this ideal of "work hard good things happen" sorry dude, its you and me hurting from this idea. Nor corporations or businesses, it is everyone at the bottom.

No matter what your life story may have been, it is quite clear to me you do not understand what is happening in America.

ndyeI took what I know about you from your region on your profile, indeed, I do not know your true story.

I picked Point Roberts because it is a funny place (Inside the US, but geographically part of Canada, kinda like a really small Alaska). I vote in the greater Seattle Area. My Family history is a mix of blue collar democrats from South Seattle and an Academic heavy side from Eastern WA (professors). I graduated from a public high school full of entitled pricks, went to UW, decided to join the military, did that, came back to UW finished my degree (aerospace) and do that now. Personal family wealth started at non existent (two parents just finished grad school, working as post docs) to pretty fucking good now (we saved and didn't spend money on the silly shit most people do/did (vacations, TV, new cars, eating out, etc). Yes, we were far from the poorest of the poor, and were solid middle class by the time I got to high school. I am not denying that I had financial benefits unavailable to many, even most Americans. That does not however, discount my opinion or hinder my ability to think objectively about the issues.

My real privilege comes from having parents who passed on to me well above average intelligence, self discipline, and were constantly involved in my life. That is the real advantage I have over most people.

ndyeshow me a reason why the lower income earners in this country arent being exploited by some of these profitious corporations making all time profits and passing none of it on to the workers.

This is where you loose credibility. I don't give a fucking fuck if people are being exploited. If you are getting exploited do something about it. Don't cry and bitch asking for help from others. It is your fucking life, you need to do something about it. I don't care if it is hard. If you try and present me with sob stories looking for sympathy you won't get it. I know too many people who have overcome adversity through hard work and will power to be impressed. Fuck if you are willing to come up with a plan and put in the effort I will help you out, but ultimately your life is your responsibility.



All of your posts are focusing on the difference between the haves and have nots. This is a weak fucking argument. You are so focused on the big evil corporations (ohh its so nice to blame 'them' everyone hates 'them') What you fail to do is address how crippling it is to small businesses. Your big evil corporations will survive on a higher minimum wage, they will still maximize profits because that is what they do, they will likely just higher less people then they otherwise would have. It is the medium to small business that will be hurt the most. You will kill their ability to expand and grow. Essentially a higher minimum wage will further divide the country between your have's and have-not's. There will be those who can afford to hire people and continue to make money (your big evil corporations) and those who can't and fold up (small and medium businesses - the hallmark of American growth).

Understand that by raising the minimum wage you are placing the entire burden of getting people out of poverty on employers - the folks who you are counting on for this to work. Since you won't be requiring any more work or value out of their employees you are essentially taxing employers per employee. Sweet that'll fucking work like a charm you fucking retard.
I have said this before in this thread, but you obviously failed to pick it up since you are so intent on going after 'them.' You are blinded by your jealousy. Let go of your emotions on this one. Also, this is a discussion on minimum wage, not corporate profits or corporate taxes and loop holes. Your continued insistence of combining corporate profits and minimum wage not only exposes your bias but also hinders your ability to think objectively about productive policy instead of subjectively about robin hood ideals.

cobra_commanderNo I don't do sympathy, if you got a problem with your life, fix it, don't whine to the government to fix it for you.

Which is all fine and well, but if people are born into poverty do you think enough of them simply know better? Your ideas, which I have no problem with, are not born into people innately. They are learned, and they need to be instilled. Luckily for you, as your below posts show, you had a better than average shot at life which no one should blame you for but to those who are dealt a shittier hand from day one, they could use a little be extra help no?

cobra_commanderMy real privilege comes from having parents who passed on to me well above average intelligence, self discipline, and were constantly involved in my life. That is the real advantage I have over most people.



This is where you loose credibility. I don't give a fucking fuck if people are being exploited. If you are getting exploited do something about it. Don't cry and bitch asking for help from others. It is your fucking life, you need to do something about it. I don't care if it is hard. If you try and present me with sob stories looking for sympathy you won't get it. I know too many people who have overcome adversity through hard work and will power to be impressed. Fuck if you are willing to come up with a plan and put in the effort I will help you out, but ultimately your life is your responsibility.

All of your posts are focusing on the difference between the haves and have nots. This is a weak fucking argument. You are so focused on the big evil corporations (ohh its so nice to blame 'them' everyone hates 'them') What you fail to do is address how crippling it is to small businesses. Your big evil corporations will survive on a higher minimum wage, they will still maximize profits because that is what they do, they will likely just higher less people then they otherwise would have. It is the medium to small business that will be hurt the most. You will kill their ability to expand and grow. Essentially a higher minimum wage will further divide the country between your have's and have-not's. There will be those who can afford to hire people and continue to make money (your big evil corporations) and those who can't and fold up (small and medium businesses - the hallmark of American growth).

Understand that by raising the minimum wage you are placing the entire burden of getting people out of poverty on employers - the folks who you are counting on for this to work. Since you won't be requiring any more work or value out of their employees you are essentially taxing employers per employee. Sweet that'll fucking work like a charm you fucking retard.
I have said this before in this thread, but you obviously failed to pick it up since you are so intent on going after 'them.' You are blinded by your jealousy. Let go of your emotions on this one. Also, this is a discussion on minimum wage, not corporate profits or corporate taxes and loop holes. Your continued insistence of combining corporate profits and minimum wage not only exposes your bias but also hinders your ability to think objectively about productive policy instead of subjectively about robin hood ideals.

And if the minimum wage went up nation wide, yes that would be more of a burden on the businesses (of all sizes) but that would also instill more spending from the bottom up across the board. There's no proof that it will 100% work, but it's not like it has been tried before (so it is an unknown) whereas the opposite has been tried and completely failed.

The referenced post has been removed.

Will a higher minimum wage be a good way (or even a non-counterproductive one) to go about changing that? I don't think it would do anything to help solve repetitive poverty.

And if the minimum wage went up nation wide, yes that would be more of a burden on the businesses (of all sizes) but that would also instill more spending from the bottom up across the board. There's no proof that it will 100% work, but it's not like it has been tried before (so it is an unknown) whereas the opposite has been tried and completely failed.

Are there ways to spread spending from the bottom up without taxing businesses for employing people? Yes, I have alluded to one such technique in this thread.

The referenced post has been removed.

Will a higher minimum wage be a good way (or even a non-counterproductive one) to go about changing that? I don't think it would do anything to help solve repetitive poverty.

And if the minimum wage went up nation wide, yes that would be more of a burden on the businesses (of all sizes) but that would also instill more spending from the bottom up across the board. There's no proof that it will 100% work, but it's not like it has been tried before (so it is an unknown) whereas the opposite has been tried and completely failed.

Are there ways to spread spending from the bottom up without taxing businesses for employing people? Yes, I have alluded to one such technique in this thread.

The referenced post has been removed.

Stop assigning titles to your beliefs. I hate the seperation political parties create. You are an American. Thats it.

DingoSeanI'm WAY more angry about the money going towards the bank bailouts and crap when it comes to shit that I shouldn't be responsible for... like 800 times angrier...

The sad thing is that the bailouts were a more necessary (albeit terrible) use of money than what these minimum wage workers are demanding.

lIllIThe sad thing is that the bailouts were a more necessary (albeit terrible) use of money than what these minimum wage workers are demanding.

Were they though?

The bush bailouts basically gave them free money for fucking up. I know that it could have trashed our economy further if they were allowed to fail, sure, but there should have been WAY more restrictions and regulations placed on the banks thereafter to prevent this shit from happening again.

DingoSeanThe bush bailouts basically gave them free money for fucking up. I know that it could have trashed our economy further if they were allowed to fail, sure, but there should have been WAY more restrictions and regulations placed on the banks thereafter to prevent this shit from happening again.

Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that the bailouts were to stop the bleeding. Blame moral hazard, a corrupt justice system, and (last but not least) the banks responsible. But the bailout itself was not a waste.

Making that $$$

theabortionatorhttp://www.wsj.com/articles/n-y-panel-is-set-to-propose-15-fast-food-wage-1437352435

So much hate. I love how there are people doing skilled labor making less than that.

Also I bet a bunch of the people campaigning because they can't live on minimum wage have iphones and data plans, and waste money on useless stuff. I can agree our economy is in the shitter, but come on.

If you don't think 8.75 is enough money, find another job or work your way up. People quit fast food jobs all the time. If you aren't useless and hang around for a while you'll move up. I'm not saying you're going straight to the top, but you can definitely work your way up. You might not get rich but you can make a little more $$$.

I've been fighting for a $50/hour minimum wage for years. No one deserves to live like rats

#StrikeFastFood

Low Pay is Not OK.

i waited 15+ minutes for an egg mcmuffin and a coffee last week. fast my ass. none of these fuckers deserve $15/hr

ndyeYou guys stomp a party line like no other. Vote for your own best interest, getting paid more, and not paying for others benefits. That is raising the minimum wage. Dont drink the kool-aid.

Listen to the people attempting to support themselves and their families on these poverty wages. Not politicians who grew up getting their asses wiped with benjamins. I dont expect any of you to understand, I would assume most of you grew up very white and very middle-upper class, and most of your parents probably did too, if they struggled they struggled in a time with better safety nets, pay, and cheaper education than we now have.

Shit isnt easy for poor people, and its never going to be. But when you live in the richest country the earth has ever seen, working a full time job should gurantee you can put food on the table and a roof over your head without needing additional assistance.

You stomp the worthless bitch line like no other

Working a full time job shouldn't guarantee shit.

Earn what you earn. If you can't earn enough to pay for a roof and food you need to reevaluate what you are doing; cause you suck at life. Oh wait that will happen anyway.

You our want to know who this law is going to fuck over? It's all those who worked to earn between $10-$15 an hour. Congratulations, your dumbfuck brain and others like you have made all those folks minimum wage employees. Way to go fuckhead. Cost of living will go up. Their take home pay won't go as far as it used to. Only some bitchass permalooser like yourself could think this was a good idea.

That at doesn't mention all the fuckheads who can't earn $15 an hour and will be fucked out of employment.

Do do you always wake up on the stupid side of the bed before falling down the bitch stairs or just the days you share your opinion?

cobra_commanderYou stomp the worthless bitch line like no other

Working a full time job shouldn't guarantee shit.

Earn what you earn. If you can't earn enough to pay for a roof and food you need to reevaluate what you are doing; cause you suck at life. Oh wait that will happen anyway.

You our want to know who this law is going to fuck over? It's all those who worked to earn between $10-$15 an hour. Congratulations, your dumbfuck brain and others like you have made all those folks minimum wage employees. Way to go fuckhead. Cost of living will go up. Their take home pay won't go as far as it used to. Only some bitchass permalooser like yourself could think this was a good idea.

That at doesn't mention all the fuckheads who can't earn $15 an hour and will be fucked out of employment.

Do do you always wake up on the stupid side of the bed before falling down the bitch stairs or just the days you share your opinion?

The momentum of your butt hurt from last month is quite impressive

cobra_commanderYou stomp the worthless bitch line like no other

Working a full time job shouldn't guarantee shit.

Earn what you earn. If you can't earn enough to pay for a roof and food you need to reevaluate what you are doing; cause you suck at life. Oh wait that will happen anyway.

You our want to know who this law is going to fuck over? It's all those who worked to earn between $10-$15 an hour. Congratulations, your dumbfuck brain and others like you have made all those folks minimum wage employees. Way to go fuckhead. Cost of living will go up. Their take home pay won't go as far as it used to. Only some bitchass permalooser like yourself could think this was a good idea.

That at doesn't mention all the fuckheads who can't earn $15 an hour and will be fucked out of employment.

Do do you always wake up on the stupid side of the bed before falling down the bitch stairs or just the days you share your opinion?

Are you really that mean a person that you don't feel bad for the poor bastards behind the counter at McDonalds or Dunkin Donuts making your shit for under 10 bucks an hour????

If so you are a complete asshole and deserve any bad karma that comes your way.

If not it means you don't have a job or existance any better than someone working fast food for under 10 bucks an hour and can't pity them because your occupation is just as miserable and likely low paying.


Which is it dude does your job suck and you are no better off than someone working McDonalds or do you suck and you are that nasty an individual. From reading your posts it must be one or the other.