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The age old question of who decides what style is to program into this AI still exists..... what are we doing here? Also RIP to all the rad judges that get to tour around during comp season. Lotsa oldheads from NS in those roles now.
What do you guys think? Comments conveniently turned off on IG
Will be interesting to see how "built not to replace humans, but to sit alongside them and fix mistakes before they happen" plays out.
Training AI to know what great style actually looks like sounds like it will kill all of the last slightly more unique comp skiers and bring skier to optimize their style to what the AI likes.
I don't think this is the necessary direction for freeskiing or other more subjective sports.
Call me opinionated but this is the LAST thing comp skiing needs. We're somehow continuing to deviate from what we know works - rider judged formats. The only positive I could see coming from this is if the money it generates somehow gets pumped back to the athletes, and the real judges disregard this shit in any and every opportunity they have to do so.
At least we have cool shit going like jib league, drdk, etc.
GrandThingsOk fuck this dude and his stupid AI judging company, but it is extremely impressive that he was both an Olympic skier and drafted by the Eagles.
And his sister wrote Molly's Game?! The fuck is going on with this family??
Lol and the final brother is a cardiac surgeon at Mass General.
Chat is this the most impressive family of all time?
sorry, you activated my obligatory oldhead comment about this:
remember when x games had fan voting for big air and dumont won with a double front against pk hunder's switch double wobble 12 (when dub wobbles and switch dub 12s were brand new)? a travesty!
How does it reward creativity? Would it have given Henrik Harlaut the gold for the nose butter 180 switch front flip or just seen it was a basic invert? The judges knew it was gold material but maybe the AI is just counting spins, ensuring grabs, no hand wobbles, and clean landings.
SofaKingSicksorry, you activated my obligatory oldhead comment about this:
remember when x games had fan voting for big air and dumont won with a double front against pk hunder's switch double wobble 12 (when dub wobbles and switch dub 12s were brand new)? a travesty!
Yea that was lame, I think it actually might have been Jon Olsson who got robbed there
I think we all know any money ai generates is going straight into private equity pockets
rojo.grandeCall me opinionated but this is the LAST thing comp skiing needs. We're somehow continuing to deviate from what we know works - rider judged formats. The only positive I could see coming from this is if the money it generates somehow gets pumped back to the athletes, and the real judges disregard this shit in any and every opportunity they have to do so.
At least we have cool shit going like jib league, drdk, etc.
rojo.grandeThe only positive I could see coming from this is if the money it generates somehow gets pumped back to the athletes
call me cynical but I highly doubt this would ever happen. also I don't understand how this is gonna work for new tricks, considering that any model is only as good as the data it's trained on so I don't see how it's gonna correctly understand a new trick. also I don't really care about eliminating human error, like there's always gonna be a subjective element to it like with figure skating. And who's asking for this? We may not always agree with judges and they might not always "get it right" but they generally do a fine job
SofaKingSicksorry, you activated my obligatory oldhead comment about this:
remember when x games had fan voting for big air and dumont won with a double front against pk hunder's switch double wobble 12 (when dub wobbles and switch dub 12s were brand new)? a travesty!
But isn't Dumont winning the perfect example of style winning over spin-to-win?
The switch dub twelve was more technically impressive but didn't resonate as hard as a really stylish and well done double superman front flip?
GrandThingsBut isn't Dumont winning the perfect example of style winning over spin-to-win?
The switch dub twelve was more technically impressive but didn't resonate as hard as a really stylish and well done double superman front flip?
I believe what happened here was that the masses of casual americans watching Xgames were more impressed by a double frontflip (this is peak athleticism to someone who doesn't understand a dub cork - also rememeber the time in skiing where dub corks were a newer impressive thing to us skiers), so basically the uninformed masses made dumont win. not because it was more stylish. dumont knew this is how it would be judged and catered to that. no way in HELL he thought skiers thought it was a better trick and if it was judged by actual judges no way he would have thrown a dub front.
GrandThingsBut isn't Dumont winning the perfect example of style winning over spin-to-win?
The switch dub twelve was more technically impressive but didn't resonate as hard as a really stylish and well done double superman front flip?
VT_scratchI believe what happened here was that the masses of casual americans watching Xgames were more impressed by a double frontflip (this is peak athleticism to someone who doesn't understand a dub cork - also rememeber the time in skiing where dub corks were a newer impressive thing to us skiers), so basically the uninformed masses made dumont win. not because it was more stylish. dumont knew this is how it would be judged and catered to that. no way in HELL he thought skiers thought it was a better trick and if it was judged by actual judges no way he would have thrown a dub front.
yeah i agree with Vt scratch. big air is judged by some (subjective, unknowable) mix of impression of technicality and style, but i think we all agree that technicality has to be somewhat primary, i mean you could do the most perfect cork 5 in history but it really shouldn't beat a switch triple with great style and control, right? i can do a dope looking cork 5 but everyone agrees i have no business in x games big air
idk, i mean it's subjective but NS and """actual skiers""" definitely all agreed at the time that it was a weird result. pk hunder doing dope switch dub wobble 12 was seriously cutting edge at the time and he got 3rd or 4th. and olsson got silver with sw dub 9s
STEEZUS_CHRI5TYea that was lame, I think it actually might have been Jon Olsson who got robbed there
yeah now that i reminded myself what happened, you're right, olsson got 2nd. and hunder got 3rd or 4th but we all agreed (not that that makes it true..) that his trick was easily the winner
Are they planning to use it at future x games events or was that just a test run to get other sports to invest in it? Because they didn't actually judge x games with it they just compared the tools scoring to the judges, so if hes just using that as a flex for his successful ref-bot then thats fine but if theyre getting rid of judges entirely thats insane and whack
I mean he says its supposed to work alongside human judges that he doesnt intend to replace but who knows how honest that statement is lol
**This post was edited on Jun 26th 2025 at 5:18:13pm
This would shine in SLVSH and clean up the sloppy judging that randomly ruins games. I would be fine with removing human judging from serious competitions entirely.
I can see why they want it to be capable of commentate to be a better coach for individuals. However dismal the current commentary can be at events with TW quoting Drake and steepsteep being allowed to breath, I still dont see how a bot could ever be better. I like using a bot for data and analysis but I dont want to talk or listen to it like I would a person. I do want to hear immediately after landing "clean dub 2340 blunt" with TW telling me his opinion rather than "ohhhh shitttt" then "clean dub..." 20 seconds later after review.
Fucking up this model by spamming every AI model currently available with Hello Shelby until spins over 180 are banned from all FIS competitions (aerials included)
i feel like it would be a stat sheet analysis at that point where specific grabs are worth x amount and added spins will increase your score so it will have zero to do with actual style. also makes me think those spins where people kinda flail and stop spinning early will not get creativity points.
Christian_Balecall me cynical but I highly doubt this would ever happen. also I don't understand how this is gonna work for new tricks, considering that any model is only as good as the data it's trained on so I don't see how it's gonna correctly understand a new trick. also I don't really care about eliminating human error, like there's always gonna be a subjective element to it like with figure skating. And who's asking for this? We may not always agree with judges and they might not always "get it right" but they generally do a fine job
Farmville420Are they planning to use it at future x games events or was that just a test run to get other sports to invest in it? Because they didn't actually judge x games with it they just compared the tools scoring to the judges, so if hes just using that as a flex for his successful ref-bot then thats fine but if theyre getting rid of judges entirely thats insane and whack
I mean he says its supposed to work alongside human judges that he doesnt intend to replace but who knows how honest that statement is lol
**This post was edited on Jun 26th 2025 at 5:18:13pm
You think Bloom is running X Games because he likes the X Games?
Farmville420Are they planning to use it at future x games events or was that just a test run to get other sports to invest in it? Because they didn't actually judge x games with it they just compared the tools scoring to the judges, so if hes just using that as a flex for his successful ref-bot then thats fine but if theyre getting rid of judges entirely thats insane and whack
I mean he says its supposed to work alongside human judges that he doesnt intend to replace but who knows how honest that statement is lol
**This post was edited on Jun 26th 2025 at 5:18:13pm
You think Bloom is running X Games because he likes the X Games?
Goretex_VidalFucking up this model by spamming every AI model currently available with Hello Shelby until spins over 180 are banned from all FIS competitions (aerials included)
I’m going to feed it bmack clips until it starts releasing its own rap videos and identifying as genderqueer
I would be very curious to watch old xgames years and run the AI judging program on it. Like what would it pick as winners, and would it take historical trick difficulty levels into account? There are so many variables, like what about weather, wind, if an athlete is sponsored by the title sponsor (lol, redbull athletes always win rampage) for example
GrandThingsOk fuck this dude and his stupid AI judging company, but it is extremely impressive that he was both an Olympic skier and drafted by the Eagles.
And his sister wrote Molly's Game?! The fuck is going on with this family??
She didn't write Molly's Game, it's the true story about her starting a floating high stakes poker game in LA. She was here in Steamboat for a while on skiing with us at SSWSC. Pretty good skier but not quite as good as the movie makes her out to be.
JahhsssOne step closer to Ariels. Tricks earning set point minimums for difficulty and other tricks having max possible scores. Not good.
Thats basically how xgames is scored currently anyways lol. If you want focus on style and creativity watch edits instead of xgames. Im not watching F1 complaining that nobody is drifting the same as Im not watching xgames complaining about the scoring of a zero spin.
What does bother me is watching someone call "nosebud 270 on" only to do a shitty slopespin and have it count as a make due to poor judging. Ai solves this.
Lenny-What does bother me is watching someone call "nosebud 270 on" only to do a shitty slopespin and have it count as a make due to poor judging. Ai solves this.
Couldn't this be really easily solved without AI? Either by stricter judging or by the rider simply saying "it has to be proper"
Christian_BaleCouldn't this be really easily solved without AI? Either by stricter judging or by the rider simply saying "it has to be proper"
A slopespin isnt an unproper nosebud its a failure, stricter judging isnt lacking there, proper judgement is.
Ai isnt the only solution for SLVSH but I think the odds of building a perfect judge Ai is far greater than your odds of finding the perfect human SLVSH judge. SLVSH is like a little over 10 years old now, if they were going to find a perfect human SLVSH judge it likely would've happened by now.
Ai and knives are both just tools, you can live your life scared of the blade or you can chop up some mirepoix and have a soup.
Lenny-A slopespin isnt an unproper nosebud its a failure, stricter judging isnt lacking there, proper judgement is.
Ai isnt the only solution for SLVSH but I think the odds of building a perfect judge Ai is far greater than your odds of finding the perfect human SLVSH judge. SLVSH is like a little over 10 years old now, if they were going to find a perfect human SLVSH judge it likely would've happened by now.
Ai and knives are both just tools, you can live your life scared of the blade or you can chop up some mirepoix and have a soup.
idk I think when we're dealing with something as subjective as skiing I wonder if it might be a bit misguided to be looking for the perfect judge. some people are always gonna disagree with any scoring no matter how perfect it may be. I think the only real sin in judging is a lack of consistency.
as for AI, I agree it's a useful tool but I think there are some domains that should be left to humans - particularly anything involving creative expression.
Christian_Baleidk I think when we're dealing with something as subjective as skiing I wonder if it might be a bit misguided to be looking for the perfect judge. some people are always gonna disagree with any scoring no matter how perfect it may be. I think the only real sin in judging is a lack of consistency.
as for AI, I agree it's a useful tool but I think there are some domains that should be left to humans - particularly anything involving creative expression.
I would argue that competitive skiing isnt necessarily the correct place to creativity express your skiing. Not to say it doesn't happen naturally just that thats not what the stage is for. I would also argue judging isnt subjective, some tricks are more difficult and display a higher talent than others.
Maybe judging isnt even the correct word for whats happening anymore because at this point its just using an algorithm to determine a score. The question being "do you want a bot or a person doing the math for you?"
There's already a lot of great ways to creatively express your skiing, we dont need to dumb down comp skiing to have a place for that.
SofaKingSicksorry, you activated my obligatory oldhead comment about this:
remember when x games had fan voting for big air and dumont won with a double front against pk hunder's switch double wobble 12 (when dub wobbles and switch dub 12s were brand new)? a travesty!
Yeah with fan voting dub front and dub back would win Xgames every year hahah
Lenny-I would argue that competitive skiing isnt necessarily the correct place to creativity express your skiing. Not to say it doesn't happen naturally just that thats not what the stage is for. I would also argue judging isnt subjective, some tricks are more difficult and display a higher talent than others.
Maybe judging isnt even the correct word for whats happening anymore because at this point its just using an algorithm to determine a score. The question being "do you want a bot or a person doing the math for you?"
There's already a lot of great ways to creatively express your skiing, we dont need to dumb down comp skiing to have a place for that.
Saying that creativity is “dumbing down” comp skiing is a wild take
If it's so good they should make it ceo of xgames. Maybe train it on some models that will give a better viewer experience. Plus all the money saved from not having to pay top level staff to do fuck all can be reinvested into xgames, the sports it hosts, or even the athletes.
Yeah just reverting, though if you said revert I would assume you only turned 180 on the ground while a slopespin could be 180+. I learned the term from the Stomp It guys "how to butter" video. He gets into slopespins around 2:50 but good part is at 5:30. "Hey check out my butta!"
3maniaShe didn't write Molly's Game, it's the true story about her starting a floating high stakes poker game in LA. She was here in Steamboat for a while on skiing with us at SSWSC. Pretty good skier but not quite as good as the movie makes her out to be.
Aaron Sorkin wrote the screenplay, but based it on the memoir she wrote which is also very good
tbayskierI would be very curious to watch old xgames years and run the AI judging program on it. Like what would it pick as winners, and would it take historical trick difficulty levels into account? There are so many variables, like what about weather, wind, if an athlete is sponsored by the title sponsor (lol, redbull athletes always win rampage) for example
Except the second most winning Rampage athlete is on Rockstar.
There have also been 5 multi-time winners, Semenuk, Sorge, Strait, Zink, and Rheeder.
Sorge and Zink ride for competing energy drink brands.
Rheeder was on Clif Bar when he won.
Strait rode for RedBull during his first victory, but wasn’t on for the other.
Of the other single time winners, only Lacondeguy ever rode for Redbull and might not have even been in when we won.
And then you have Semenuk, unequivocally the best freeride mountain biker of all time. Hard to say he won because he was on Redbull.
