“ NO, SKIING ISN’T A WELCOME PLACE FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR”

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jcaPretty weak response IMO. You sound pretty defensive/threatened by this... Why is that?
The article isn't attacking you (us), but rather starting a dialogue on how we, as a community, can work towards being more inclusive.
Sure, overt racism isn't very prevalent in skiing in my experience. But that doesn't mean we're a universally accepting and welcoming to minority groups.
As a white male who grew up in a overwhelmingly white ski town, I don't pretend to have any perspective on how other groups view or feel about skiing. It's time to take a step back from the soapbox and listen to these other perspectives instead of just dismissing them because your personal experience doesn't align with someone else's.
We can all learn something and work together towards being a more inclusive community. There's always room for improvement, why stop here?

The Bullshit remark was specifically for this:

"Even end-of-season celebrations characterized by obscene patriotism for a country that still does not provide equal rights to BIPOC and throwback outfits that romanticize eras when the nation was violently hostile to BIPOC can feel uninviting."

I went point by point in two other posts but when an author writes things like this its hard to take them seriously. Do you really think if you took a Black friend to a giant muddy parking lot party with people dressed in funny costumes and slamming beer they are going to think "Oh my God, these White Supremacists are celebrating slavery up here every year???" Im sorry but its laughable that someone can literally conflate A-Basin's Beach party to a Klan meeting. Or is it more sinister, are we to feel ashamed for celebrating this country at all? You know, the one with the one of the highest standards of living and a place people have literally fled to from across the world.

The author put the article in a public space, his soapbox. Do I not have the right to counter what he is saying if I think its wrong? History has taught us that allowing only one ideology to be expressed while suppressing others leads to very bad consequences.

Aug 25 2020 6:05PM 10 4

a_burger

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SuspiciousFishThe author put the article in a public space, his soapbox. Do I not have the right to counter what he is saying if I think its wrong?

No but you do kind of at least owe it to them to separate the parts of the article you disagree with from the article as a whole, especially when a lot of it is based on his personal experiences. I agree that gaper day probably isn't something worth fixating on in regards to making BIPOC feel more comfortable. That said if someone is addressing why they and others feel uncomfortable and you disagree, there's way more ground to be made asking them why vs. discounting their opinion.

That's the one issue with this article I feel, it does a great job bringing attention to the racism in skiing but it is a little broad in it's scope and doesn't really allow for 2 way dialogue which is super key when discussing stuff like this.

A discussion like you and vt_scratch had is a lot more productive then patty's response to you and others above, and I see some parallels to patty's post and your response to the article. Maybe reach out to the author on IG and ask him to clarify what he meant in regards to gaper day?

Aug 25 2020 6:27PM 8 2

pinkcamo1000

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rice.chex87 percent of Colorado is white, 78 percent of Utah is white, 89 percent of Montana is white, and 93 percent of Idaho is white. Align these numbers with the 88 percent white skier statistic and you’ll realize that the numbers have more to do with ratio then anything else. This does not mean that racism doesn’t exist in skiing, I just pointed it out because his solution relied heavily on increasing numbers of BIPOC in the industry and the hill which may not be realistic if you look at the ratio. Instead I think the best solution is for everyone to watch their own prejudices and maybe if someone is being blatantly racist call them out for it.

I don't really buy this explanation. SLC is next to all the good skiing and is very diverse, same goes for Denver.

Aug 25 2020 6:36PM 4 2

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a_burgerNo but you do kind of at least owe it to them to separate the parts of the article you disagree with from the article as a whole, especially when a lot of it is based on his personal experiences. I agree that gaper day probably isn't something worth fixating on in regards to making BIPOC feel more comfortable. That said if someone is addressing why they and others feel uncomfortable and you disagree, there's way more ground to be made asking them why vs. discounting their opinion.

That's the one issue with this article I feel, it does a great job bringing attention to the racism in skiing but it is a little broad in it's scope and doesn't really allow for 2 way dialogue which is super key when discussing stuff like this.

A discussion like you and vt_scratch had is a lot more productive then patty's response to you and others above, and I see some parallels to patty's post and your response to the article. Maybe reach out to the author on IG and ask him to clarify what he meant in regards to gaper day?

I agree. The bullshit call was specifically to a quote but I think NS wont quote the original quote so it looked like I was calling the whole article bullshit which was not my intention. Im glad to have discourse here in NS and I dont have instagram but have no problem with finding another avenue to talk to the original author.

Aug 25 2020 6:39PM 5 0

MoneyMakerMike

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pinkcamo1000I don't really buy this explanation. SLC is next to all the good skiing and is very diverse, same goes for Denver.

Edit: Denver county is 80 percent white. I can post a screenshot of that too if you would like. I’m not saying this is the only reason skiing is a white dominated sport but it’s by far the biggest factor. The numbers correlate very closely. I don’t see how you can make a good argument against it without providing some statistics that suggest otherwise.

**This post was edited on Aug 25th 2020 at 6:51:22pm

Aug 25 2020 6:44PM 6 0

elm.

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I think there would be more variations of style in skiing if it was more diverse. I mean look at the world cup. Germany vs. Mexico is so cool to watch.

Aug 25 2020 6:49PM 6 0

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rice.chex

Edit: Denver county is 80 percent white. I can post a screenshot of that too if you would like. I’m not saying this is the only reason skiing is a white dominated sport but it’s by far the biggest factor. The numbers correlate very closely. I don’t see how you can make a good argument against it without providing some statistics that suggest otherwise.

**This post was edited on Aug 25th 2020 at 6:51:22pm

Honestly, I think the skatepark model is what may bridge the gap here. Sure massive mountain resorts in CO may be inaccessible to minorities due to cost and distance but its much more feasible to find a small hill, throw a T-bar on it and build a decent park. Many minority youth will probably resonate more with park skiing anyway as it more closely follows the model of skating etc which is something they are used to.

Look at Echo mtn in Denver. They literally have marketing catered to bringing minorities into the sport:

https://echomntn.com/

**This post was edited on Aug 25th 2020 at 7:01:37pm

Aug 25 2020 6:59PM 13 0

VT_scratch

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SuspiciousFishOk, hopefully this is going to look ok pulling the text out. VT- I appreciate the response and think its cool we can have a good discussion here.

In 2007-2010 in Vermont it was not uncommon for white highschool students to say the N word to their friends without a single thought of how this was wrong. Trying to say its okay to say it if you use an A at the end instead of ER is also pretty messed up.

Maybe this is an East Coast thing but in any case it goes back to my original point. If we had the N word just die out as the horrible racist term it was there is no way kids would be saying it for kicks. The issue is that its become a word almost anyone who listens to modern music or media hears on a daily basis almost consistently. Its this strange thing where we have this now popular term and only Black people can say it but not White people. If White people say it, its not trying to be racist, its because they are being edgy by breaking this now arbitrary rule. Is it not a double standard that we say this is a dark word with a horrible past, but then let it be displayed almost everywhere in pop culture? Personally, I think the word needs to die altogether. That being said, if Black people have a reason to still use it Im not going to speak for them but we cant hide from the implications of this double standard.

The author's point is one form of exclusion to a group is just another barrier to another 'outside group' wanting to join the sport. Gapers are not typically people who come to resorts to flaunt their wealth. Its anyone who has no clue what they are doing and typically wearing gear incorrectly (upside down goggles, backwards helmet) or perhaps equipment not suited for the sport (like wearing jeans instead of snowpants on a pow day). Do you really think gaper day is representative with calling out white privilege? bravo, way to fight the good fight.

Im not directly saying Gaper day is calling out White Privilege but most of our collective hate for Jerry's are people that come to these resorts, dont know what they are doing, and act like asshats because they have money. Sure there are funny examples of well meaning people wearing goggles upside down but thats just funny in itself regardless of who is doing it. I still dont see how Gaper Day or dressing up funny and drinking in a dirt parking lot can be considered racism.

Read this article, they say:
“Regardless of whether it’s Vermont or out west, we constantly get the looks of, ‘oh, there are black people on the mountain – what are they doing here?’” Allen said. “Our club’s motto is ‘who says we don’t,’ because we constantly get that.”

The same article says:

While those numbers seemingly reinforce some painful stereotypes about skiing being a whitewashed sport, the NESC regards Vermont as a comfortable and inviting place to enjoy the sport they love.

“Vermont has always been a welcoming place for me to ski, and I’ve been coming here for a long time,” said longtime club member Jim McKamey. “I don’t think anybody has ever made me feel like I shouldn’t be here.”

They also said most of the flak and surprise they got was from their own race:

Several club members acknowledged that the very first hurdles occur within the African-American community itself. Skiing has long been viewed as a “white sport” from both within and without.

“Stereotypes die very hard, and it’s not just white people,” Cooper said, recalling when a black ski patroller named Phil Littlejohn first suggested she try skiing. “I’m like, ‘are you crazy? Black people don’t ski.’ That’s what came out of my mouth. It took a lot to get me out there.”

This goes back to my earlier point of different priorities different people have. Its not unusual for any race or people to look confused when you spend much of your money on wooden planks, drive 2 hrs every weekend to slide on some snow. This is why im down on community outreach and getting kids out on the mountain, especially from the inner cities where they need a balance to the trapped downward spiral those conditions can create.

Sadly, those looks are nothing new.

“You can tell when you get on the chairlift with somebody who feels really uncomfortable,” Allen said. “They’re sitting there (stiffly), looking straight ahead and not saying anything.

“It’s hard, especially in the current political climate. There are people who sit in silence on the chairlift because they don’t know what to say and they don’t have that comfort level. They don’t know how to ask, ‘what’s going on here?’ without feeling as though they’re being disrespectful in some way.”

Exactly this- ESPECIALLY IN THE CURRENT POLITICAL CLIMATE. Because we have all this White Guilt, 'White Supremacy is Everywhere" Cancel culture- we have created racial tension and division. If White people are told they are bad, and racist and commit micro aggression then of course they may be uncomfortable to say something on a chairlift out of fear of saying something wrong or offensive even in normal conversation. This was written back in March but look how much worse it is now. There are literally BLM crowds marching through restaurants and yelling at any patrons that dont put there fist up in solidarity. You can deny with that sort of extreme animosity, that same person might be reticent to talk to a normal Black person at the grocery store.

While I understand you may not call this 'trauma', it is a feeling we can't understand as white people and white skiers, and that may be recurring trauma they face as people of colour.

Again from the article I posted above, from the experience of a person of colour... they say “It’s important that when you go to a ski area website, it’s not just showing white people – it’s showing blacks and Asians and Puerto Ricans,” Allen said. “Otherwise, it makes it look like it’s exclusive, when you open up a brochure or magazine and it’s only showing a bunch of white people doing it. That makes us say, ‘that’s just something that white folks do.’ It is so important to have that familiar face.”

This is a tricky one because resorts exist to make money. They know their market is White so they cater to those that are willing to spend money with them. Sure, they can put a bunch of Blacks and Hispanics on marketing slicks but unless it actually makes more Blacks and Hispanics come, it can come off as disingenuous. I dont have a problem at all for them doing this but at the end of the day, the marketing people do things to make money for the resorts and if Blacks dont care about skiing they will eventually realize its a waste of time to market to them. On the other hand, if it makes Blacks feel like they are more included and drives them to the resorts then yeah all the better.

I think your whole post comes off as feeling a bit attacked as a fragile white male (buzz words, people are gonna hate this) and not willing to take much responsibility to contribute to positive change that will allow BIPOC to feel more welcomed into the sport.

Buzzword indeed, ad hominim attacks are not going to help bring anyone together. Especially when its used to discredit anyone with a different idea. If I have a tone, its because in the late 00s it really looked like America was past racism. Young people all grew up watching Dave Chappelle, listened to Hip Hop and voted for Obama and nobody cared what race your friends were. Racism was literally something we collectively celebrated being over. Sure society as a whole still needed to change but the youth were primed to wash it away.

But then this new agenda came forth that suddenly painted everything as racist and marginalized White People as being "White Supremacists" and "Check Your Privilege" or "Cultural Appropriation" for any little thing. Then that gave birth to the natural push back of the Alt-Right shitheads which led to a death spiral into the shit cesspool of race relations we have today. That is why im against articles like this, they dont promote actually going into Black communities to promote skiing. Its just cheap shots at inconsequential issues and trying to use that to paint our sport as racist in a way that does not actually help anyone. We are supposed to get past racism, not look for every little excuse to wallow in it.

Thanks for your reply and not snapping.

Maybe this is an East Coast thing but in any case it goes back to my original point. If we had the N word just die out as the horrible racist term it was there is no way kids would be saying it for kicks. The issue is that its become a word almost anyone who listens to modern music or media hears on a daily basis almost consistently. Its this strange thing where we have this now popular term and only Black people can say it but not White people. If White people say it, its not trying to be racist, its because they are being edgy by breaking this now arbitrary rule. Is it not a double standard that we say this is a dark word with a horrible past, but then let it be displayed almost everywhere in pop culture? Personally, I think the word needs to die altogether. That being said, if Black people have a reason to still use it Im not going to speak for them but we cant hide from the implications of this double standard.

I understand what you're trying to say. However I feel it's one thing for a black person to use the word and a very different thing for someone else to use it. In many cases they have taken ownership of the word and by using it in music or in their circles it helps break down the awful meaning of the word and the oppressive nature of it toward them.

Im not directly saying Gaper day is calling out White Privilege but most of our collective hate for Jerry's are people that come to these resorts, dont know what they are doing, and act like asshats because they have money. Sure there are funny examples of well meaning people wearing goggles upside down but thats just funny in itself regardless of who is doing it. I still dont see how Gaper Day or dressing up funny and drinking in a dirt parking lot can be considered racism.

That part of the article is harder for me to understand and draw clear connections to as well, but the point I was making was that the author is saying a barrier for 1 person being an extra barrier for a BIPOC which just doesn't help the cause of inclusivity. This makes sense to me.

The same article says:
"While those numbers seemingly reinforce some painful stereotypes about skiing being a whitewashed sport, the NESC regards Vermont as a comfortable and inviting place to enjoy the sport they love.

“Vermont has always been a welcoming place for me to ski, and I’ve been coming here for a long time,” said longtime club member Jim McKamey. “I don’t think anybody has ever made me feel like I shouldn’t be here.”

^For sure. I will also point out that Vermont is a very progressive state with a very accepting group of people. I would compare this with a heavy red state such as Idaho where they have a heavy republican group of people (there were some wild signs in farmer's fields when I did a roadtrip through the state a few summers ago). This is def anecdotal on my part but I do feel like a BIPOC in a state like Vermont may be more positive than many other states.

This is a tricky one because resorts exist to make money. They know their market is White so they cater to those that are willing to spend money with them. Sure, they can put a bunch of Blacks and Hispanics on marketing slicks but unless it actually makes more Blacks and Hispanics come, it can come off as disingenuous. I dont have a problem at all for them doing this but at the end of the day, the marketing people do things to make money for the resorts and if Blacks dont care about skiing they will eventually realize its a waste of time to market to them. On the other hand, if it makes Blacks feel like they are more included and drives them to the resorts then yeah all the better.

This is an example of something the author would want resorts to do out of an obligation to be more inclusive and it being the right thing to do- forgetting about bottom line. Also would it really make a different to white people who already frequent the resort? Do you think they will not come if the website has photos of BIPOC having fun at the resort and thus losing money? If you do think so which is what seems like the point you're making, then you're beginning to see why a lot of people think racism is an issue here.

Buzzword indeed, ad hominim attacks are not going to help bring anyone together. Especially when its used to discredit anyone with a different idea. If I have a tone, its because in the late 00s it really looked like America was past racism. Young people all grew up watching Dave Chappelle, listened to Hip Hop and voted for Obama and nobody cared what race your friends were. Racism was literally something we collectively celebrated being over. Sure society as a whole still needed to change but the youth were primed to wash it away.

But then this new agenda came forth that suddenly painted everything as racist and marginalized White People as being "White Supremacists" and "Check Your Privilege" or "Cultural Appropriation" for any little thing. Then that gave birth to the natural push back of the Alt-Right shitheads which led to a death spiral into the shit cesspool of race relations we have today. That is why im against articles like this, they dont promote actually going into Black communities to promote skiing. Its just cheap shots at inconsequential issues and trying to use that to paint our sport as racist in a way that does not actually help anyone. We are supposed to get past racism, not look for every little excuse to wallow in it.

No comment here really. I understand some of what you're saying, but I've also been trying to learn more about my privilege, about systemic racism and discrimination and see more now that these issues do go back a long way and it will take a lot of un-doing.

Aug 25 2020 7:06PM 6 0

pinkcamo1000

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rice.chex

Edit: Denver county is 80 percent white. I can post a screenshot of that too if you would like. I’m not saying this is the only reason skiing is a white dominated sport but it’s by far the biggest factor. The numbers correlate very closely. I don’t see how you can make a good argument against it without providing some statistics that suggest otherwise.

**This post was edited on Aug 25th 2020 at 6:51:22pm

idk man this could have to do with how county lines are drawn or something I'm not trying to get in a stats war here, all I know is that I lived in slc for a couple winters and it always seemed pretty diverse to me, I know there are tons of people on this site who live there maybe they agree/disagree. I'm just basing this on my personal experience.

Aug 25 2020 7:29PM 0 9

mcswizzle

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BiffbarfHe definitely wasn't referencing the 4th of July my dude. Did you read the article? He was referencing gaper day. Where do you ride where there's confederate flags? I rarely ever see them in CO, and if I do it isn't the kind of person that skis.

Gaper day just makes fun of working class people who don't feel the need or have the means to buy expensive outerwear. It treats not having the ability to go skiing 50 days a year as something to be made fun of. I've had my share of fun at various Gaper Days but sadly its a massive show of superiority.

Aug 25 2020 8:00PM 3 4

FruitBootPro

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Biffbarf"Even end-of-season celebrations characterized by obscene patriotism for a country that still does not provide equal rights to BIPOC and throwback outfits that romanticize eras when the nation was violently hostile to BIPOC can feel uninviting."

Huh?

Dude is saying that wearing 70's skiing outfits at the end of the season is racist since the u.s. government had racist policies at that time.

I agree that skiing is nowhere near as diverse as it should be rn but cmon. what the government has done to bipoc throughout 90% of America's history is positively awful, but we're supposed to try and erase everything from that time bc there was some fucked up shit for some people? That evidently invalidates everything good about those eras. And pretend that there were no allies to bipoc in those times? No art or culture that stood against the establishment? Cmon

Aug 25 2020 8:36PM 4 0

FruitBootPro

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Young_pattyliterally why I hate this community so much, thank you for continuing to push the narrative that our community is a bunch of rich retarded white kids. Honestly surprised too see you in there @Biffbarf , I honestly didn't think you were that ignorant.

it's not a narrative, freeskiing legit is a bunch of retarded white boys and this site is an example of that
I don't hate you guys or anything but we should be aware that this site is a pretty intimidating and edgy look for freeskiing lmfao

Aug 25 2020 8:39PM 0 11

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VT_scratchThanks for your reply and not snapping.

Hey for sure man, Ive pretty much said everything I have to say on this but mad respect for going toe to toe in an articulate way. I think its good for people to be able to share ideas and disagree and even if we dont sway each other we at least can test our own perspectives and maybe find common ground.

Aug 25 2020 8:57PM 9 0

eheath

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pinkcamo1000idk man this could have to do with how county lines are drawn or something I'm not trying to get in a stats war here, all I know is that I lived in slc for a couple winters and it always seemed pretty diverse to me, I know there are tons of people on this site who live there maybe they agree/disagree. I'm just basing this on my personal experience.

There are 1.16 million people in salt lake county and you think your limited experience to a very niche, small group of people is representative of the entire county? Use your brain for a minute here dude.

Aug 25 2020 9:02PM 9 1

alpha.moose

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pinkcamo1000idk man this could have to do with how county lines are drawn or something I'm not trying to get in a stats war here, all I know is that I lived in slc for a couple winters and it always seemed pretty diverse to me, I know there are tons of people on this site who live there maybe they agree/disagree. I'm just basing this on my personal experience.

SLC resident here and it is definitely not a very diverse place, unfortunately.

Aug 25 2020 9:18PM 9 0

DesertStix

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Did we ever get clarification from the author about what exactly he means by the gaper day/spring skiing being an ode to darker times...? I’m legit curious

Aug 25 2020 9:56PM 3 1

Young_patty

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Biffbarfdiscussion gets exhausting.

Apparently, especially when it’s not about something that impacts you as a person. Keep pushing the narrative dude.

pinkcamo1000I don't really buy this explanation. SLC is next to all the good skiing and is very diverse, same goes for Denver.

You have to be joking? SLC and Denver are two of the whitest cities I’ve ever been in.

Aug 25 2020 11:33PM 5 2

Biffbarf

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Young_pattyApparently, especially when it’s not about something that impacts you as a person. Keep pushing the narrative dude.

Huh? What narrative? My guy you need to chill on placing people into wholeass groups they don't belong in if their views don't align 100% with yours.

Aug 25 2020 11:40PM 5 0

skeirman

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Man, as a person of color, I can honestly say, white people crack me up. You all seem to bend over backwards to find racism literally everywhere I swear to God. Almost like you actually CRAVE racism. I grew up skiing and then switched to snowboarding for many years, and have been back on skis for the past 6 years. I have never once, not a single time ever, been slighted or felt unwelcome because of my race while on the mountain. Have people been assholes to me? Yes, people at resorts can be assholes. People anywhere can be assholes. But I have never taken anything thrown my way as a racist thing, and I have FOR SURE never had anyone actually say anything racist to me while riding or skiing.

Aug 25 2020 11:50PM 13 3

Young_patty

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BiffbarfHuh? What narrative? My guy you need to chill on placing people into wholeass groups they don't belong in if their views don't align 100% with yours.

Yk what you’re right, It’s low key an issue that’s bothered me a lot because a lot of my friends growing up just didn’t have that opportunity to ski. It really is a larger issue that’s outside the control of pretty much All skiers and the way you presented your view seemed dismissive of it and made me upset so my B I’m sorry. In all honesty tho it is an issue that more people shouldn’t just dismiss as bs because it doesn’t affect them or makes them mad and I wish skiers were just more aware sometimes that very does people on this planet actually get to enjoy this sport simply because it’s so ungodly expensive. End rant tho I need a post work spliff.

Aug 25 2020 11:55PM 4 0

BigPurpleSkiSuit

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FruitBootProit's not a narrative, freeskiing legit is a bunch of retarded white boys and this site is an example of that
I don't hate you guys or anything but we should be aware that this site is a pretty intimidating and edgy look for freeskiing lmfao

We can be somewhat elitist at times, but I think at the end of the day we all just want to ski and have a good time doing it.

Aug 26 2020 12:02AM 1 0

SnowshoeThompson

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“I cannot leave race out of it”-
Something a racist would say
I’m a minority and I honestly hate this anti racism woke BS more than actual prejudice.

Shout out to BMOS and lil g

Aug 26 2020 1:21AM 9 7

shinbangclan

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mcswizzleGaper day just makes fun of working class people who don't feel the need or have the means to buy expensive outerwear. It treats not having the ability to go skiing 50 days a year as something to be made fun of. I've had my share of fun at various Gaper Days but sadly its a massive show of superiority.

Always thought gaper day was about remembering the inner gaper in yourself. It's supposed be a reminder to not take yourself so seriously. Anyone using as (or seeing it as) a "show of superiority" is missing the point!

Aug 26 2020 3:41AM 9 0

HypeBeast

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Good god way too many triggered people even in this thread. The author as well as many of you make good points but for fuck sakes be concise.

We can all talk about this and that but HOW do we change skiing to open doors for minorities as well as people of lower income? That is the honest to God question. Forget everything else. How to we make that happen. The steep price is most definitely a deciding factor in will you grow up skiing. The industry year after year shoots themselves in the foot alienating potential new skiers by driving costs up. There's a reason skiing is 1/4 as popular as it was back in the day... Even when I was growing up as a middle class white kid, skiing was too expensive for my family. I'd be lucky and super stoked if we got to ski once a year at peek n peak lmao. Between gas, food, rentals, and lift tickets, it was more than taking the whole fam to Cedar Point for a weekend. Being less fortunate let alone a minority, is a huge factor in participating in this sport. The ski industry really has to change and become more affordable if we really want to include others. But I think we can help with gear donations, school programs at local hills, and being more inclusive.

Also lol to any moron who cracks jokes at Asians. So ignorant. Asia was skiing millenia before most of our ancestors ever set foot on this continent. Sheesh. Can't even believe people have that mindset. If you don't know that about ski history, you're a fool.

Really the only surprising thing is when you see a black dude skiing. I think I've maybe seen 3 or 4 people skiing my entire life. It's exciting and I always start up a convo on the lift but it's surprising cuz hot damn that's not commonplace. Rock on though. Never seen people be racist on the slopes but that's disgusting if they are. Probably the same people being Karen's about everything else too. We are just here to ski; who cares how much melanin you have in your skin.

Aug 26 2020 4:39AM 6 0

johnblaze

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skiermanSaid the white boy who has a list of all his black friends in his back pocket.

Grow up.

Aug 26 2020 10:10AM 7 3

animator

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skeirmanMan, as a person of color, I can honestly say, white people crack me up. You all seem to bend over backwards to find racism literally everywhere I swear to God. Almost like you actually CRAVE racism. I grew up skiing and then switched to snowboarding for many years, and have been back on skis for the past 6 years. I have never once, not a single time ever, been slighted or felt unwelcome because of my race while on the mountain. Have people been assholes to me? Yes, people at resorts can be assholes. People anywhere can be assholes. But I have never taken anything thrown my way as a racist thing, and I have FOR SURE never had anyone actually say anything racist to me while riding or skiing.

Out of curiosity what race are you? I’ve been reminded a whole lot that I’m not white while skiing

Aug 26 2020 11:18AM 4 2

skeirman

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"Really the only surprising thing is when you see a black dude skiing. I think I've maybe seen 3 or 4 people skiing my entire life. It's exciting and I always start up a convo on the lift but it's surprising cuz hot damn that's not commonplace. Rock on though. [/quote]

Dude, just fuckin' stop.

**This post was edited on Aug 27th 2020 at 2:18:52am

Aug 26 2020 2:46PM 4 2

bentchets303

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Ridiculous

“”

Young_pattyIt’s true. Skiing isn’t even welcoming to most white people let alone minorities.

“”

Aug 26 2020 3:09PM 3 0

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Loner

I remember working at Deer Valley In 2008 there were people, including blacks of all races there. In sure the ratio of non white has gone up in 12 years.

I talked to the security guard at my work, who’s black into going to Vail this past season and ski. She enjoyed it and is going again this upcoming season. She personally told me how welcomed she felt there.

Virtually all of the staff at Deer valley were from Brazil, Uruguay or Paraguay with a couple from Australia, Sweden and locally. If you were able bodied, they put you to work. This includes office staff at the end of the season when the Visas run out.

Park skiing is deeply rooted in hip hop music and urban fashion. I personally grew up in the inner city 2 miles away from where the George Floyd incident happened.

I really don’t think Skiing and especially park skiing is intentionally racist. However, it’s a inherently expensive sport.

The same could be said about any expensive activity (sailing, travel, hockey, Olympic sports, etc.)

Skiing isn’t racist, income/ education disparities are.

**This post was edited on Aug 27th 2020 at 1:57:29am

Aug 27 2020 1:46AM 5 0

theabortionator

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mcswizzleGaper day just makes fun of working class people who don't feel the need or have the means to buy expensive outerwear. It treats not having the ability to go skiing 50 days a year as something to be made fun of. I've had my share of fun at various Gaper Days but sadly its a massive show of superiority.

Not really. A lot of gapers have the super nice outerwear. It's just a fun way to kook it uo with friends and drunk some beers. I think you're reading too much into it. All the shit show weekends and holidays. Then that one spring day where you go out and look like an idiot and have fun. Most gapers are oblivious to the fact that they are a gaper.

Aug 27 2020 3:23AM 2 0

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MXmxI remember working at Deer Valley In 2008 there were people, including blacks of all races there. In sure the ratio of non white has gone up in 12 years.

I talked to the security guard at my work, who’s black into going to Vail this past season and ski. She enjoyed it and is going again this upcoming season. She personally told me how welcomed she felt there.

Virtually all of the staff at Deer valley were from Brazil, Uruguay or Paraguay with a couple from Australia, Sweden and locally. If you were able bodied, they put you to work. This includes office staff at the end of the season when the Visas run out.

Park skiing is deeply rooted in hip hop music and urban fashion. I personally grew up in the inner city 2 miles away from where the George Floyd incident happened.

I really don’t think Skiing and especially park skiing is intentionally racist. However, it’s a inherently expensive sport.

The same could be said about any expensive activity (sailing, travel, hockey, Olympic sports, etc.)

Skiing isn’t racist, income/ education disparities are.

**This post was edited on Aug 27th 2020 at 1:57:29am

Just because a resort takes advantage of cheap labor for entry-level positions through work visa programs doesn't make them inclusive.

Aug 27 2020 10:59AM 9 3

DesertStix

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Lol most would argue it does the opposite

skiermanJust because a resort takes advantage of cheap labor for entry-level positions through work visa programs doesn't make them inclusive.

Aug 27 2020 11:12AM 2 1

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DesertStixLol most would argue it does the opposite

And most people would say supporting a point by stating "most people" is fucking stupid.

Aug 27 2020 11:47AM 3 5

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Loner

Why are you assuming Deer Valley is hiring people of color for entry level positions?

skiermanJust because a resort takes advantage of cheap labor for entry-level positions through work visa programs doesn't make them inclusive.

Aug 27 2020 12:15PM 0 0

DesertStix

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What’s your address I’m going to send you some Xanax I was agreeing with you bro lol

skiermanAnd most people would say supporting a point by stating "most people" is fucking stupid.

Aug 27 2020 12:16PM 4 1

skeirman

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skiermanJust because a resort takes advantage of cheap labor for entry-level positions through work visa programs doesn't make them inclusive.

Yes, actually, it does.

Aug 27 2020 12:17PM 3 4

eheath

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Play Ball

MXmxWhy are you assuming Deer Valley is hiring people of color for entry level positions?

Do you know what a J1 visa is?
EDIT you said this so how are you even asking this question, are you trolling?

MXmxVirtually all of the staff at Deer valley were from Brazil, Uruguay or Paraguay

**This post was edited on Aug 27th 2020 at 12:29:13pm

Aug 27 2020 12:23PM 6 1

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MXmxWhy are you assuming Deer Valley is hiring people of color for entry level positions?

So you're ignorant about almost everything. Gotcha, thanks!

Aug 27 2020 1:26PM 1 5

B.Gillis

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skiermanJust because a resort takes advantage of cheap labor for entry-level positions through work visa programs doesn't make them inclusive.

What makes them cheap labor? They get paid the same as any other entry level employee. If anything it’s just the available labor. To my knowledge entry level J1’s at PC make significantly more money than they would working a position that pays Utah’s minimum wage.

Aug 27 2020 2:26PM 5 0

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Loner

Why do you think because someone is not white that they are on a Visa or entry level?

Only thing I said about visas is that when visas run out before the end of the season that all people regardless of race or backstory are expected to help out on the mountain.

eheathDo you know what a J1 visa is?
EDIT you said this so how are you even asking this question, are you trolling?

**This post was edited on Aug 27th 2020 at 12:29:13pm

Aug 27 2020 4:46PM 3 0

eheath

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Play Ball

MXmxWhy do you think because someone is not white that they are on a Visa or entry level?

Thats not what I said, at all, but because of J1 visa, as you know, there are many non-white employees that work entry level jobs at resorts aka minimum wage jobs, food/bev, lifty, lodging. Its not an assumption, its true that many resorts hire non-white people for many entry level jobs. This has nothing to do with non-entry level jobs as we aren't talking about that, you literally just brought it up.

I was wondering why you posed such a stupid fucking question when you know that resorts hire 100s of J1 employees every year and they struggle to fill those positions without J1 workers.

Aug 27 2020 4:51PM 0 5

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B.GillisWhat makes them cheap labor? They get paid the same as any other entry level employee. If anything it’s just the available labor. To my knowledge entry level J1’s at PC make significantly more money than they would working a position that pays Utah’s minimum wage.

Oh yes, I'm sure companies line up to pay more for employees at the behest of the government.

Are you fucking kidding me right now? This thread is a perfect example of white privilege and straight up ignorance.

Aug 27 2020 8:08PM 4 6

B.Gillis

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skiermanOh yes, I'm sure companies line up to pay more for employees at the behest of the government.

Are you fucking kidding me right now? This thread is a perfect example of white privilege and straight up ignorance.

Dude my girlfriend was a J1 for three seasons and they most definitely are paid the same minimum wage as any other employee. They are subject to the same labor laws as you and I. H2B visas will usually make more than minimum wage because they’re considered skilled workers. They fill the place of the ignorant white privileged workers that are non existent. Companies have to apply for certifications in order to be eligible for international employees. Part of that certification process is proving that there is a substantial lack of employmees available.

Vail has a company wide minimum wage of 12.50 so the J1’s are making good money in cheap states such as Utah.

So you can fuck right off with your attitude.

**This post was edited on Aug 27th 2020 at 8:24:31pm

Aug 27 2020 8:22PM 8 0

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Loner

I believe that paying prevailing wage is a requirement towards getting a visa approved.

H2B? Are you thinking of H1B which is used extensively in the tech industry?

B.GillisDude my girlfriend was a J1 for three seasons and they most definitely are paid the same minimum wage as any other employee. They are subject to the same labor laws as you and I. H2B visas will usually make more than minimum wage because they’re considered skilled workers. They fill the place of the ignorant white privileged workers that are non existent. Companies have to apply for certifications in order to be eligible for international employees. Part of that certification process is proving that there is a substantial lack of employmees available.

Vail has a company wide minimum wage of 12.50 so the J1’s are making good money in cheap states such as Utah.

So you can fuck right off with your attitude.

**This post was edited on Aug 27th 2020 at 8:24:31pm

Aug 27 2020 8:32PM 0 0

Posts: 334 - Karma: -200

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Loner

Again, the only thing I said about visas is that all people, regardless of color or job title is expected to work the front lines when the visas run out.

Again, why do you assume visa = non white. Many, if not most of the ski instructors were white male Christians from Western Europe. They were on a visa and disappeared towards the end of the season. You are making quite a few racist assumptions while trying to be a social justice warrior.

Also, many of the entry level non white visa workers I worked with at deer valley seemed to be rich Brazilian kids taking a break from college. They told me that they were leaving before the visa runs out so they can go to Vegas and “spend it all”. The pack of about a dozen Brazilian lifties did indeed leave sooner then others. Again, you are making racist assumptions.

my point was there are non white customers at the most luxurious ski resort in the world. The ski resort doesn’t care about your race of job title, they expect you to pitch in as a team when needed. Skiing isn’t racist, park skiing embraces black dominated music genres, fashion, Ebonics. Skiing isn’t racist, there isn’t anything ski resorts are purposely doing to discriminate. They will gladly take you some regardless of color or if you snowboard, snow bike, snow blade, ski, etc. Skiing has low non white participation due to economics.

eheathThats not what I said, at all, but because of J1 visa, as you know, there are many non-white employees that work entry level jobs at resorts aka minimum wage jobs, food/bev, lifty, lodging. Its not an assumption, its true that many resorts hire non-white people for many entry level jobs. This has nothing to do with non-entry level jobs as we aren't talking about that, you literally just brought it up.

I was wondering why you posed such a stupid fucking question when you know that resorts hire 100s of J1 employees every year and they struggle to fill those positions without J1 workers.

Aug 27 2020 8:46PM 3 0