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April, 2024

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Official Ski Pressing/Shaping/Building/Constructing Thread

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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
All of us have thought about building your own shit at one time or another, but how many of you actually have? This thread will be dedicated to those who actually build your own gear from scratch, surely there are some of you on NS. Now I can't contribute to this thread much because I've never built anything and I only have a small amount of time working with fiberglass, but would sure love to see some info from you dudes who actually do, whether you build in your basement, or for a living. So if you can legitimately contribute please do.
Oct 24 2011 8:22PM
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Turkelton
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 8,558
You ever thought of building boards?
Aug 26 2013 11:18AM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2727 - Karma: 33,007
After already finishing one pair of skis, I'm moving on to my second pair. But this time I will be making my whole shop along with my skis.
First off the skis design.

camber or lack there of and rocker.
Click for larger image

Specs

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And topsheet

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I have a lot of work to do such as making my shop starting with the work bench. As I cross things off the list I will post them on here. I know these skis look a little funky. I have always wanted to try a ski like this and what better way to do so than by making them.



Sep 2 2013 9:41PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
if you're on instagram check out #diyskis, i am documenting my progress.
Sep 2 2013 10:08PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Im going to jump on is hashtag after you get done this first set.
Sep 2 2013 10:45PM
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K.Breit
Posts: 211 - Karma: 143
Let's make it trend
Sep 3 2013 12:25AM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
Generally I dont like or use instagram but I might get on board with the hashtag stuff. Its slow progress for atm with building as i have to build my workspace first. Built the units, just waiting on the worktop which should come this morning. Then its off to the CNC lab to cut the ribs. Logan I see in one of your pics you've only got a few ribs are you making more or do you have some other plan?
Sep 3 2013 5:31AM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
negative, i'm doing a vacuum table so i only need 4 ribs. my design was inspired by the one at boardcrafter.com, but it's a little different.
Sep 3 2013 10:49AM
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max...
Posts: 1379 - Karma: 801
will probably jump on this too once i give my brother and his fiancee their skis. don't want to ruin the surprise cause they follow me on instagram
Sep 3 2013 11:12AM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2727 - Karma: 33,007
I started off that way but had a lot of trouble getting the top sheet to lay smooth on the ribs, ended up just making one solid mold. Best of luck trying that way though from what I read on skibuilder some guys skis came out pretty bad from that set up.
Sep 3 2013 11:19AM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
i'm gonna stack about 4 layers of masonite on top of it, if that doesn't smooth it out then i'm gonna make a cattrack to lay across it. we'll see how it does though
Sep 3 2013 2:38PM
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Jaggy_Snake
Posts: 2287 - Karma: 1,418
From what of the pictures of the surfboard you made last year, I'm sure your diy skis will turn out just as badass!
Sep 3 2013 2:47PM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2727 - Karma: 33,007
I made the cat track and i think that is what messed me up it wouldnt lay out smooth. I thought about stacking the 3/16 masonite i was using as my top sheet to add extra support but i got hesitant due to the fact that every layer altered the camber profile. I'm interested to see how your come out, if they work I might try the stacking way.
Sep 3 2013 5:39PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
yeah, it altering the camber has def crossed my mind. this first set of skis is going to be the base experiment so it has very simple features (flat camber, gentle rocker, etc) so i can gauge what my mold and curing settings do to the final shape.
Sep 3 2013 9:39PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
http://www.kittenfactoryskis.com/skis/

A certain ad on another ski forum caught my eye the other day... While the forum will remain unnamed, the ad won't! Looks like the webpage has finally launched, and things are under way at the Kitten Factory.

For a first year, the lineup looks pretty aggressive, and covers the whole freeskiing spectrum. Looking like they have some pretty awesome construction to, with some skis offering full carbon layup. Glad to see entropy's epoxy being used to. Eco friendly and better yet, bonds awesome.

Check it out guys! Thanks again to KyleA for the help over the past year and some now!
Sep 4 2013 11:17PM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,268
I've seen a few surfboard dudes try that. The place where I get my stuff from also has some sort of bamboo fabric, it's like stretchy apparently. When you lay it up you have to stretch it and pin it.
Sep 5 2013 12:02AM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Interesting... Would be cool if you could orient the strands into a cloth to work properly in a ski. And have you read up on NSP's coco mat boards? (I don't surf but I read about it, and errrrthang composite) Anyways, sounds pretty cool. They're claiming it to be super strong and super light. I could see that; and it would be nice if it wasn't some false hype because its natural stuff.

Too bad it's a mat and not a cloth. But you'll never get full length fibres from coconut fibres ( definitely could from bamboo though!), so mat is the only feasible option. I have no idea how mat would perform in a pair of skis, but I doubt it would perform well. the flex would be messed up, longitudinal and torsional. As far as surfboards and other industries go to, I doubt everyone will jump on the coco mat train though. Pricey to manufacture. Cool stuff nonetheless.
Sep 5 2013 1:08AM
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HolySchimmel
Posts: 1601 - Karma: 1,297
Looks like you're making good progress!
Sep 6 2013 3:36AM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
they're in the vacuum right now. 50 minute layup (holy shit it didn't feel that long), used a little under 700g epoxy. they are 180 x 116/92/116 with clear 4001 ptex base, vds, 19 oz triax, 2.3-11.2-2.3 bamboo core, 19 oz triax, clear uhmw topsheet
Sep 6 2013 2:14PM
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HolySchimmel
Posts: 1601 - Karma: 1,297
I feel like time always goes waaaay faster when you're in the layup phase. Hope they turn out awesome! Did you fix your cores to the vacuum setup somehow? Or how do you keep them in place? My first pair shifted during pressing which kinda sucked -.-
Sep 6 2013 2:53PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
i glued some alignment blocks to the table. i was gonna do pegs but i ended up not wanting to deal with that, haha.
Sep 6 2013 3:15PM
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HolySchimmel
Posts: 1601 - Karma: 1,297
yeah, thats sounds like a pretty good solution. Better than mine I guess. I used nails :D Always feared that they would rip a hole in my vacuum bag. Hope they will turn out awesome! You planning on doing graphics for your next pairs?
Sep 6 2013 3:25PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
i'm a sucker for wood veneer topsheets so i think that's the direction i'm gonna go
Sep 6 2013 3:31PM
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HolySchimmel
Posts: 1601 - Karma: 1,297
yeah thats a nice option too! I've seen some in person and they look awesome!
Sep 6 2013 3:48PM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
I'm going to give a wood veneer topsheet a go for mine and possibly some woodstaining. I'm interested in trying out different wood type of veneer to add to the difference in nose/tail and underfoot flex.
Sep 6 2013 5:34PM
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ThatMNkid
Posts: 157 - Karma: 548
For a first time ski builder, is it suggested that I use or do not use sidewalls? I want to know because I am planning on buying a kit from http://www.store.skilab.com/ and one of the kits has sidewalls and the other does not. Thanks for the help!
Sep 10 2013 10:54PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
I wouldn't. It's added expense and complication to learn with while ski building. Not worth the risk. Good luck with it man!
Sep 11 2013 12:17AM
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Belzebub
Posts: 451 - Karma: 812
Hey guys!
I am looking to get into skibuilding and I have decided that i dont want to deal with pneumatic presses that can explode or vacuum pressing. Therefore I have decided that I am going to make a fully mechanical press like this one http://picasaweb.google.com/jakob.lederer/EinSkiEntsteht#5221738410356062978 . Thoughts?

Does anybody know of any good sources for materials and supplies in Europe/Scandinavia?

Sep 11 2013 7:59AM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
I thought about this and posted a bit about a while ago, i you haven't read the whole thread its worth doing (i know 500 posts is alot esp. with some of the longer ones). In short generally people advised against it because you're unlikely to get even or enough pressure across the lay-up. Looked at the photos and it seems they went about in a better way than I had proposed but still I decided I'm doing it by vacuum, for now at least. The website i'm ordering my materials from is skibaumarkt.de because for delivery to the UK from US is just not viable. I'm not sure if there are other sites for europe but its worth looking in the skibuilders.com forums lots of helpful info there.
Sep 11 2013 8:26AM
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Belzebub
Posts: 451 - Karma: 812
Thanks!
And yeah, at first I thought about making a vacuum press, but I wanted to avoid using electricity in the press. I think using fire hoses filled with water will eliminate the problem of not getting even pressure.
But I am scratching my head on what to do with the tightening. Should I go with bolts or do you guys have an idea to make it faster to tighten?
Sep 11 2013 8:46AM
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HolySchimmel
Posts: 1601 - Karma: 1,297
I would gow ith a vacuum setup. It's really not that expensive and I dont think its dangerous either. Once you get the vacuum set up and seal the bag, you dont need to do anything anymore (if you seal the bag right).
There are  a few good sites, I used the following two to get my materials:

http://www.skibaumarkt.de/

and

http://www.r-g.de/de/

Also, if you understand german, check out the skibuilding thread on freeskiers.net!



Sep 11 2013 8:58AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2232 - Karma: 2,885
Oh shit, now I know where to get the materials...
Sep 11 2013 10:02AM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
just ordered most of the materials I need for starting building, getting in contact with the open access cnc workshop see if their machines could machine my cores and cut the ribs & base material.
Excited doesnt cut it so I think the required gif is
Click for larger image
just need to source a good place for my veneer topsheet, near me.
Sep 11 2013 5:20PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
if anyone is curious what a layup looks like and has like 6 min to burn i made a timelapse. sorry the camera cut out when i put on the topssheet.

layup from logan imlach on Vimeo.

Sep 12 2013 11:17AM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
Hanks for posting this I found it interesting especially as I will be doing it relatively soon. You say on your instagram its was a 50 min lay up, what was the pot life on your epoxy?
Sep 12 2013 5:15PM
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Mag
Posts: 8155 - Karma: 14,809
awesome stuff man, really interesting, what was the blanket on top for? in case it exploded?

how did you create the pressure on the skis? surely inflating a big bag on top of it wouldn't do that much? intriguing though.
Sep 12 2013 5:48PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
haha 50 minutes. but it was 50 minutes from when i mixed the first batch of epoxy till right after the vac was engaged and i rolled the pipe over it. i had 3 batches of epoxy through the process, so it didn't really get tacky during use, as the layer that was at the end of its pot life was at the base.
Sep 12 2013 6:14PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
the blankets were to lock in heat, i was using entropy cpm resign with cpl hardener which requires 110-180 deg F to reach its optimum mechanical properties. i was struggling to get it there with just the heat blanket, so i draped a bunch of blankets (and my sleeping bag) over the top and put a small space heater below it to get it to a nice 120 deg F.

tons of people have made good vac builds, mine pulls 21 bar, which gets me to right around 14 psi, plenty to press a ski.
Sep 12 2013 6:15PM
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Mag
Posts: 8155 - Karma: 14,809
Christ, that's a ton less than I thought, I was thinking some seriously high pressures, which got me slightly worried that if something popped I could die haha.

Your build looks incredibly simple and really interesting, quite tempted to try something like that in the future.
Sep 12 2013 6:36PM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2727 - Karma: 33,007
how did snowboarder craft mold work for you? Any lose of camber/rock with the stacking, or any waves in the bases?
Sep 12 2013 6:38PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
None of the above and surprisingly flat bases as well. Super pumped. I stacked 3/16 peg board (lots of screws) then two layers of 1/8 coated Masonite. Didn't drastically change my rocker profile either, strangely. They only thing that's different is rather than flat underfoot they are slightly rockered, which I'm attributing to the heating method that was used
Sep 12 2013 9:56PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
I'll have to do my next layup on cam with a press loading as mines a bit different than most presses. Not sure how the shop lighting will look though, it's pretty gross most of the time. Now please TSB, release this engine...
Sep 12 2013 10:44PM
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HolySchimmel
Posts: 1601 - Karma: 1,297
Its vacuum, no need for really high pressures or anythhing, most vacuum pumps will make a strong enough vacuum to press skis. The pressure is lower than the pressure you get when using a hydraulic press. But in the end, vacuum is just the cheaper, and less dangerius way to go. If you wanna make more than a few pairs, using a press like ninetyfour does is going to be better in the long run though.
Sep 13 2013 10:36AM
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joelski
Posts: 1014 - Karma: 736
threads i am thinking of doing this for my woodshop project this year

login where did you get that vacuum bag and what was the price
Sep 14 2013 1:09AM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
Veneersupplies.com has everything you need to know. Take your time and read that whole website.
Sep 14 2013 11:07AM
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joelski
Posts: 1014 - Karma: 736
i just notice that on the miller studio products page there is a "protective Tape" which may be the best option because it is made for this but it is really overpriced
about half way down the page
http://millerstudio.net/?page_id=80
Sep 14 2013 11:42AM
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joelski
Posts: 1014 - Karma: 736
sorry about the double post
would a ribbed bottom mold work on a vacuum press work? because i came up with a design that has half the ribs being cambered and the other half being rockered so when you rase or lower the rockered ribs you can make any ski profile of a certain length. if you are confused i can try and explain it better
Sep 14 2013 11:32PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Yep, Logan is using a ribbed mold in his vac bag setup (punch me in the face if you aren't...). And that system makes sense, I actually really like the idea! I think it would work just fine in a vacuum bag setup to. My top mold has spaced ribs, and that's receiving full pressure from the bladder so durability and strength shouldn't be an issue.
Sep 14 2013 11:56PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
Don't punch yourself in the face, underneath the setup described above I use 4 ribs.
Sep 15 2013 12:33AM
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joelski
Posts: 1014 - Karma: 736
cool the one problem i have with my idea is the transition between the rocker and the camber might be a little bit to steep but we shall see
Sep 15 2013 4:11PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Well if it's ribbed you'll need something to line it regardless, so that should make for a smooth enough of a transition.
Sep 15 2013 5:43PM
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