Companies marketing Recco as viable avalanche device?

I agree, that seems like a pretty irresponsible way for Ruroc to refer to recco. It's still just a body finder.

If I saw this Venom looking mofo get caught in an avy I wouldn't try to save him

It's not helpful unless you have specialized equipment to search for it. About as useful as tying a piece of chicken around your neck to make it easier for the avy dogs to find your dead body.

more like avalanche recovery

chills__If I saw this Venom looking mofo get caught in an avy I wouldn't try to save him

he'll be fine, blue groomers dont tend to slide

For the majority of ruroc’s market this is about the minimum level of avalanche protection needed.

Reality is, they’re not going to stray far from the groomers and if they do it will likely be in bounds, where a patrol response with a recco finder could still rescue somebody alive. I’ve seen slides onto blue runs and it’s exactly then when resort skiers should have at least one recco reflector.

Does this give these skiers a false sense of security to go beyond where they would normally? Maybe, but if they take a vague ad statement like this as full avy protection, it’s likely they would go without recco at a slight persuasion of a friend who “went beyond the gate once and it was fine”.
Anybody who does basic research on what recco is on their site will see they are very clear about having avy knowledge and proper avy equipment as their system is no substitute.

I would hope they at least have a line in the caption or on the product page about recommending full avy kit & knowledge. That to me would be the minimum I would expect from a responsible company selling an avy safety device.

They might as well just start selling an oxygen tank that hooks up to your ruroc so you can breathe when you get buried and scuba dive with it.

I would love to see someone drop the most fire edit of the year wearing one of those goofy getups

but yes that's some pretty shameful marketing right there

What do you even use to locate a recco thing in someone’s jacket? Obviously not a beacon I don’t get it

I wouldn't necessarily say that's the case here but I kinda see what you mean. Its all marketing though dude. I feel like its easier and more profitable to market a product in a positive light with the idea in the consumers head of them envisioning themselves wearing this helmet on a pow day for instance versus adding in the product description "YOU COULD DIE DOING THIS. PAY ATTENTION. TAKE COURSES AND PRACTICE RESCUE SKILLS, FIRST AID SKILLS, SAFE TRAVEL PRACTICES, AND MAKE A HABIT OF IT." After minimal research, anyone with a functioning brain can realize that BC travel is no joke, isn't just about fresh turns, and you got to take this shit seriously.

And lets be a bit honest (and generalize while were here too): We're not the types of skiers that Ruroc is marketing too. They want people with $$$$ on trips who ski occasionally but still support the industry and these types of vacation skiers don't really give too much of a care about educating themselves on vacation. They just want to go ski and worry about things later.

CaseyWhat do you even use to locate a recco thing in someone’s jacket? Obviously not a beacon I don’t get it

Recco is a radar system. Patrol/mountain rescue teams have a radar emitter, either on a helicopter or handheld, and the reflector bounces back the radar signal giving a trackable location which working kind of like you would use a beacon, you narrow down a location.

multiple reflectors across different garments/equipment help to improve the reflected signal.

because it’s only really response teams that have them they’re not as good as you and your buddies being on the scene searching straight away, as your chances of survival in a burial drop off rapidly after 15 minutes, usually longer than a response team can get to you outside of a resort.

FaunaSkisRecco is a radar system. Patrol/mountain rescue teams have a radar emitter, either on a helicopter or handheld, and the reflector bounces back the radar signal giving a trackable location which working kind of like you would use a beacon, you narrow down a location.

multiple reflectors across different garments/equipment help to improve the reflected signal.

because it’s only really response teams that have them they’re not as good as you and your buddies being on the scene searching straight away, as your chances of survival in a burial drop off rapidly after 15 minutes, usually longer than a response team can get to you outside of a resort.

I had a friend in HS whose parents were both patrol at Grand Montets in Chamonix and they never used the Recco radar because apparently it was super unreliable in avalanche scenarios. For people who are new to backcountry skiing I think it can be hugely misleading but for your run-o-the-mill jerry who will never see snow outside marked trails I dont think it matters as much.

imagine helping a dude out of an avalanche and seeing a ruroc helmet. just put a big pile of snow over and say that the area is clear

Someone take the hit so the rest of us can sue and get the $$ to fund slvsh

This conversation has been going on for ages, with no real discernible resolution. Historically, Recco has been more of a body recovery tool than anything else. Live rescues with it are few and far between, and generally the victim has gotten really lucky and survived much longer than statistical norms. However, more and more first-response teams are getting Recco detectors, so I'm sure we'll continue to see the total number of live finds increase. Especially for inbounds avalanche burials, it makes a ton of sense, and can often be deployed faster than a probe line. And folks wearing a venom themed storm trooper mask are prime candidates for that sort of rescue.

That said, I'd be very surprised to learn Recco is any more of a heuristic than anything else. I'd be shocked if the folks getting themselves into bad situations because of a lack of experience or gear are any more likely to make those bad decisions because they know they have Recco.

Ruroc's idiocy aside, I don't think I've ever seen a company market it as a life-saving device, rather it's usually carefully positioned as another potential aid in a rescue scenario.

Where I am really excited to see Recco make more inroads is in non-winter gear. Reflectors are starting to show up in bike helmets, backpacking gear, paragliding harnesses, and the like. For non-avalanche missing person scenarios, it makes a ton of sense, a helicopter mounted Recco detector allows searchers to cover a lot of ground very quickly, and there's more time to deploy a bird before it becomes a body search.

Ruroc is stupid. We all knew that though, the paint job says as much. There's no substitute for getting educated and making conservative decisions, and Recco is a won't hurt, might help feature.

cydwhitWhere I am really excited to see Recco make more inroads is in non-winter gear. Reflectors are starting to show up in bike helmets, backpacking gear, paragliding harnesses, and the like. For non-avalanche missing person scenarios, it makes a ton of sense, a helicopter mounted Recco detector allows searchers to cover a lot of ground very quickly, and there's more time to deploy a bird before it becomes a body search.

Totally agree - more chances of finding missing persons is never a bad thing. And it's great to see Recco making its way into other categories.

The outdoor industry needs to continue to emphasize the importance of proper education and use nuance in their marketing communication. Recco is a great technology. But "avalanche-rescue protection" sounds misleading. Yes, it'll help direct rescuers to your body, but it won't guarantee you're alive once they show up.

Disclaimers and legal technicalities can be annoying, but there's a reason they're required. Mountain safety can be a matter of life and death and a responsible company should be upfront about the limitations of a product.

I know it's a stupid facebook ad for a company that doesn't market to backcountry users, but there's still a responsibility to your customers. These are the consumers who go into the sidecountry on a powder day because "it's so fun bro - the pros do it." They're naive and simply don't know any better. Ruroc should add a disclaimer to the ad like *Recco is not a substitute for proper avalanche safety equipment and education. See url for details*

also guys i just need to get this off my chest, if they make one of these full faces that makes you look like the dude from Halo i'm getting it, i'll fuckin get it

SofaKingSickalso guys i just need to get this off my chest, if they make one of these full faces that makes you look like the dude from Halo i'm getting it, i'll fuckin get it

Can we get Alex Ferreira to do a hotdoggin hans-type video in this? Imagine watching Chief throw down on a jump line or in the park

hahah that's awesome, love that idea

Ruroc has a 100% effectiveness rating when it come to protecting the user from pretty girls.

cydwhitThis conversation has been going on for ages, with no real discernible resolution. Historically, Recco has been more of a body recovery tool than anything else. Live rescues with it are few and far between, and generally the victim has gotten really lucky and survived much longer than statistical norms. However, more and more first-response teams are getting Recco detectors, so I'm sure we'll continue to see the total number of live finds increase. Especially for inbounds avalanche burials, it makes a ton of sense, and can often be deployed faster than a probe line. And folks wearing a venom themed storm trooper mask are prime candidates for that sort of rescue.

That said, I'd be very surprised to learn Recco is any more of a heuristic than anything else. I'd be shocked if the folks getting themselves into bad situations because of a lack of experience or gear are any more likely to make those bad decisions because they know they have Recco.

Ruroc's idiocy aside, I don't think I've ever seen a company market it as a life-saving device, rather it's usually carefully positioned as another potential aid in a rescue scenario.

Where I am really excited to see Recco make more inroads is in non-winter gear. Reflectors are starting to show up in bike helmets, backpacking gear, paragliding harnesses, and the like. For non-avalanche missing person scenarios, it makes a ton of sense, a helicopter mounted Recco detector allows searchers to cover a lot of ground very quickly, and there's more time to deploy a bird before it becomes a body search.

Ruroc is stupid. We all knew that though, the paint job says as much. There's no substitute for getting educated and making conservative decisions, and Recco is a won't hurt, might help feature.

Cy you should start a helmet company just to flex your art on Ruroc would probably instantly bankrupt them

The people using Recco for avalanche prevention wouldn't be saved by much of anything. If you're game plan is to get dug out, you should be in bounds.

A guide I trust once put it into perspective for me when he said "If you are consistently making judgement calls, eventually you will make the wrong one." I was often frustrated by how conservative he was, but I was young and stupid. No line is worth a coin toss on your life. Just wait for the conditions to be right and do it another day. This mentality will be far more affective than any airbag on the market, although airbags are dope and let other people know you pound vag like it's your job.

Recover
Extremely
Cold
Corpses
Occasionaly

Dustin.The people using Recco for avalanche prevention wouldn't be saved by much of anything. If you're game plan is to get dug out, you should be in bounds.

A guide I trust once put it into perspective for me when he said "If you are consistently making judgement calls, eventually you will make the wrong one." I was often frustrated by how conservative he was, but I was young and stupid. No line is worth a coin toss on your life. Just wait for the conditions to be right and do it another day. This mentality will be far more affective than any airbag on the market, although airbags are dope and let other people know you pound vag like it's your job.

I had an airbag but traded it for a wheel bearing job. I realistically wasn't going to use it. If I thought it was necessary I wouldn't go or would find mellower terrain to play in. Def not worth dying for. I guess it's nice as a back up plan butbi couldn't really afford it anyway. A friend had one in europe and had pulled it in slides multiple times, tried to tell him maybe he should take less risks.

It's def useful as a backup, but it's easy for people to look at it as a means to ride lines on days they probably shouldn't.

Being too conservative might be a little lame or whatever but it'll keep you out of harm most of the time. Some people make risky calls all the time and don't get into trouble, but it isn't worth it for me.

Things can go south even when they shouldn't, but a little precaution in decision making can go along way to make those far less likely and give you a far greater chance of everyone making it out safely

theabortionatorI had an airbag but traded it for a wheel bearing job. I realistically wasn't going to use it. If I thought it was necessary I wouldn't go or would find mellower terrain to play in. Def not worth dying for. I guess it's nice as a back up plan butbi couldn't really afford it anyway. A friend had one in europe and had pulled it in slides multiple times, tried to tell him maybe he should take less risks.

It's def useful as a backup, but it's easy for people to look at it as a means to ride lines on days they probably shouldn't.

Being too conservative might be a little lame or whatever but it'll keep you out of harm most of the time. Some people make risky calls all the time and don't get into trouble, but it isn't worth it for me.

Things can go south even when they shouldn't, but a little precaution in decision making can go along way to make those far less likely and give you a far greater chance of everyone making it out safely

That sounds all too familiar. In Europe you are essentially slackcountry any time you leave a marked run, so people tend to blur the lines with true backcountry conditions often and seeing a line of people with airbags going up a lift to ski groomers isn’t too uncommon. It’s great insurance to have one, and as said before they are dope. But they give people too much liberty in their decision making out there. They just think they’ll pull the bag if they mess up and that’s normal.

I figure I should chime in here since there seems to be a lot of misinformation going around about the Recco system. When I was a patroller, we trained with them a lot. Their niche is certainly for inbounds avalanche sceneraios where you wouldn't expect your victims to be wearing beacons, and it's not a technology with any real backcountry applications (other than body recovery I suppose), not only because the units are large and unwieldy, but also because if you have any reflectors on your body you're just going to get a signal for yourself.

That said, they are very useful in the context of an inbounds avalanche and can find a reflector from a greater distance than one beacon would find another. In addition to a reflector, it can pick up a cell phone or even a watch at closer range. It's just another tool in the arsenal for patrols to deploy but is certainly no replacement for a beacon in the backcountry.

Also if you wear a beacon inbounds you'll be found first since patrol always does a hasty beacon search before Recco or dogs.