A serious discussion about resort crowding

eheathAt some point, the product will suffer and people will ski less, its just a boom/fad right now. I wouldn't be surprised if LCC/BCC ban the Ikon pass, I'm assuming they have some sort of contract they will fulfill and then they will assess the situation.

LonelyWait, didn't you post a photoshopped picture photoshopped to look like it's from ikon, saying that the ikon pass would be shut down indefinitely, which was false, and then get mad that vail called you out and told you to stop posting lies?

I mean, for clarity here cuz I'm still confused about this

You posted this on your insta, which to my knowledge is fake

So vail sent you this because you were lying about the pass in a way that could directly affect their business

And you responded with this.

armchair_skierThread called a serious discussion.
The discussion in question:

WoFlowzLol except holidayvalley they announced a new express and 6 pack and the possibility of a new express after those in the next few years to help with lift lines and ease/speed of access to certain parts of the mtn

dmcdmcAgree with folks who have said that COVID restrictions make the lines longer and slower. Anecdotally, I know fewer people who bought passes this year than previous years because of COVID. I don't think more people are skiing this year than before. A few of my friends have completely given up on skiing until the pandemic improves.

eheathDude your random friends =/= all people in the country, the increase isnt locals, its people travelling and/or moving to utah for the pandemic. I've been skiing in utah for a long time, I've seen the busiest days in the last 15 years and this year has been the busiest year in Park City, no question about it.

aFrogiscoolHonestly, Brian Head is kind of the same way. 3/4 of the license plates there were from California and Nevada. The line for Giant Steps is out of hand. Not that its not organized its just that it takes seven minutes to get on the chair. Navajo was even worse. I'm all about bringing people from other states into Utah but its kinda out of hand.

SkiBum.Vails numbers are “down” as they are the only ones that “have” to report. Pass numbers were up I believe. Parking lots are full as can be. So my opinion is like yours, I think there’s more people or similar as last year which was fucking busy. Just losses in lodging and food.

eheathDude your random friends =/= all people in the country, the increase isnt locals, its people travelling and/or moving to utah for the pandemic. I've been skiing in utah for a long time, I've seen the busiest days in the last 15 years and this year has been the busiest year in Park City, no question about it.

The referenced post has been removed.

The referenced post has been removed.

dmcdmcFair point. With more people moving to Utah/Tahoe/resort towns, crowding is definitely an issue and it's not just a symptom of the Ikon pass existing. As far as the resort is concerned a transplant is a local, whether we like it or not. There's no monetary benefit to the resort to give locals special treatment unfortunately.

Increase capacity...faster lifts, open more terrain
Control guest #s. With a reservation system, daily caps or charging more money

It all comes down to $$$

BigPurpleSkiSuitGonna leave it pretty open, but apart from spring pow days 2 years ago when Snowbird was the only mountain open in May or June and it dumped a huge storm, this weekend was undoubtedly the worst lines that I have ever seen. I will always be a resort skier at Snowbird, but damn.

I know the mountains will always be attractive, and everyone deserves to ski, but waiting 30-45 min at a time is not my idea of a good time, nor anyone's. It's clear that the Epic and Ikon passes have made accessing world class resorts far easier, but damn if the crowds are almost unacceptable.

My solution:

A reservation system only for Ikon and Epic pass users. I buy a season's pass to one mountain, and I do feel somewhat entitled to not have to deal with hoardes of ikon pass users from out of state every single pow day. Limit the total number of ikon pass users that can book a single day. They only get 5 days a season, make it so that we don't get a day like this past Saturday where every single one of them was at one resort. Open to suggestions, but yes, as a local, I'm getting a bit fed up. My idea here will probably never happen because lone resorts sold out the minute they got on ikon and Epic passes. I remember hearing that Jackson got 52 dollars per day one year per ikon pass day used. Then you have food, lodging, the whole 9 yards. That's a lot of money, and it sure fucked the resort line, but that's a lot of money.

TLDR: Jaded local who is not alone rants about overcrowding at resorts, and the ikon pass causing it while feeling powerless to do anything.

SavageBiff-prioritize local mountain pass holders with highest % of total admittance and equally divide rest between tickets and multi resort pass holders
-all mountains should have a line skip pass and it should be expensive, with a discount for ikon/epic etc and a larger discount for local resort pass holders

LonelyWait, didn't you post a photoshopped picture photoshopped to look like it's from ikon, saying that the ikon pass would be shut down indefinitely, which was false, and then get mad that vail called you out and told you to stop posting lies?

I mean, for clarity here cuz I'm still confused about this

You posted this on your insta, which to my knowledge is fake

So vail sent you this because you were lying about the pass in a way that could directly affect their business

And you responded with this.

TrefinUnconstrained capitalism sucks since it encourages rent-seeking behavior (forming monopolies/duopoly, raising prices while adding no value) and there theoretically should be long term repercussions resulting from pissing everyone off. in saying that, the market demand (pow days with extreme waits) for can remain irrational longer than we can stay sane.

eheathAt some point, the product will suffer and people will ski less, its just a boom/fad right now. I wouldn't be surprised if LCC/BCC ban the Ikon pass, I'm assuming they have some sort of contract they will fulfill and then they will assess the situation.

PeppermillRenoThey are only banning the Ikon if they think enough SLC residents will buy $2,000.00 season passes.

They could easily go that route and people like OP will be pining for the days Vail and Alterra made skiing cheap.

Indoor recreation being allowed in the winter when its cold should ease things. But theres a valid concern that governments may not tell humans its OK to interact with each other inside w/out masks even after we have all been vacc'd.

PeppermillRenoThey are only banning the Ikon if they think enough SLC residents will buy $2,000.00 season passes.

They could easily go that route and people like OP will be pining for the days Vail and Alterra made skiing cheap.

Indoor recreation being allowed in the winter when its cold should ease things. But theres a valid concern that governments may not tell humans its OK to interact with each other inside w/out masks even after we have all been vacc'd.

BigPurpleSkiSuitThe problem is that no one will build new lifts to accommodate for the increase in people.

finderI wish mountains would give priority to groups in lift lines over singles that take up a whole chair. A group of 4 that take up one chair should not have to wait the same amount of time as a single person taking up that same chair.

ASAPCarterI used to be an ikon hater too but now that I’m in college in California it makes wayyy more sense to just buy the ikon even if I’m just gonna use it at Bear. Haters gonna hate but for a broke college student taking classes online it’s like a deal sent from heaven to be able to go pretty much anywhere for $600. I’m having an amazing fucking season.

oreofreeskiing'but waiting 30-45 min at a time is not my idea of a good time,' lol

I ski at stratton and surprisingly enough lines have been better than usual with the capacity limits on day tickets and a lot of the NYC boomer crowd still being worried about the virus. 10am to 2pm on Saturdays and Sundays is a shitshow, but before and after that its pretty calm and weekdays are obviously a breeze even on snow days. Gondi is out of the question because of capacity limits and that line is 40 minutes any time of the day. But overall it's been better than some recent years.

stratton is a dogshit dumspter-fire of a mountain that caters to the worst crowd of skiers/people on the planet....BUT the lines haven't been terrible this year.

You gotta remember that most of these places don't give a fuck about you or your lift line gripes. These are finally tuned businesses churning out cheeseburgers and serving tourists' needs WAY above locals'. OP nailed it in the last sentence, 'thats a lot of money.'

Rotten_TrumpkinsThe vermont quarantine requirements might have something to do with that. I know that's kept me out of the state. Pretty much noone is gonna be able to enter the state for tourism without lying.

threlve

opening week of granby ranch, colorado, ~30m from winter park, and i promise you half the people in this line didn't have masks on.
doesn't look nearly as bad as it was in the photo, but i hope you get the point. people will stand in this without a mask on before they sit on a lift with someone random

eheathPark City is busier than its ever been, the reservation system doesn't limit anything.

Skiing is just become more popular, especially in Utah. It has been steadily increasing since I moved to utah (2007) and the last 5 years have been insane, slap covid on top of all of that and you get tons of random ppl skiing who will probably not ski next year when they can do stuff indoors without a mask. Hopefully this spike in popularity is just a fad, otherwise its about time to find a new place to ski IMO

katrinaI understand the sentiment, but as someone who doesn't always have friends to ski with (you get old and people have shit going on, reservation availability, etc) that would be shitty to basically deprioritize people who don't have friends to ski with.

**This post was edited on Jan 25th 2021 at 10:44:33pm

finderHonestly not surprised at all I got down voted for that. I don't mean that people should be vilified and have crazy long wait times for skiing alone, but some way to incentivize lift lines like an HOV lane could help. I totally get not having the same group of friends to ski with as when you were 14. I am seeing more solo days too but I'm lucky enough to have my weekends in the midweek and work on weekends.

What do people think of placing two singles on either side of a quad? Assuming they're both wearing actual masks I don't see how that would be a huge problem. I do see tons of people in the east wearing those neoprene gaper masks with holes/thin buffs etc and I wouldn't wanna ride the lift with someone like that.

Do your mountains enforce having proper masks over a buff/gaper mask with holes? I just don't get how people care so little about others/care so much about resisting very easy to follow rules. Maybe I should start skiing with my respirator.

TreyDudskifrom what i've seen, in Utah at least, singles are almost grouping up in fours to get onto the quad. Is it correct, maybe not..do the lifties care...not really. I think as long as youre wearing the mask then the lifties don't really feel like correcting, but I'm not a lifty so I can't say much.

Places two singles together and opening a single rider lane sounds like a better idea thought.

finderHonestly not surprised at all I got down voted for that. I don't mean that people should be vilified and have crazy long wait times for skiing alone, but some way to incentivize lift lines like an HOV lane could help. I totally get not having the same group of friends to ski with as when you were 14. I am seeing more solo days too but I'm lucky enough to have my weekends in the midweek and work on weekends.

What do people think of placing two singles on either side of a quad? Assuming they're both wearing actual masks I don't see how that would be a huge problem. I do see tons of people in the east wearing those neoprene gaper masks with holes/thin buffs etc and I wouldn't wanna ride the lift with someone like that.

Do your mountains enforce having proper masks over a buff/gaper mask with holes? I just don't get how people care so little about others/care so much about resisting very easy to follow rules. Maybe I should start skiing with my respirator.

finderHonestly not surprised at all I got down voted for that. I don't mean that people should be vilified and have crazy long wait times for skiing alone, but some way to incentivize lift lines like an HOV lane could help. I totally get not having the same group of friends to ski with as when you were 14. I am seeing more solo days too but I'm lucky enough to have my weekends in the midweek and work on weekends.

What do people think of placing two singles on either side of a quad? Assuming they're both wearing actual masks I don't see how that would be a huge problem. I do see tons of people in the east wearing those neoprene gaper masks with holes/thin buffs etc and I wouldn't wanna ride the lift with someone like that.

Do your mountains enforce having proper masks over a buff/gaper mask with holes? I just don't get how people care so little about others/care so much about resisting very easy to follow rules. Maybe I should start skiing with my respirator.

Dan-ManThis past Sunday (01/24/2021) was the busiest I've ever seen my local hill. It was the first real pow day of the year.. but I thought there were COVID restrictions that would prevent that this year. At least they hopefully made a shit load of money.

Also. Why would someone who has never skied choose to go on a snowy cold day? the runs are choppy af and hard to learn on.

when i teach anyone to ski, its going to be mid to late march, sunny, and 40 degrees +. Not January, 20 degrees, 6in of crud, and lift lines...

Dan-ManThis past Sunday (01/24/2021) was the busiest I've ever seen my local hill. It was the first real pow day of the year.. but I thought there were COVID restrictions that would prevent that this year. At least they hopefully made a shit load of money.

Also. Why would someone who has never skied choose to go on a snowy cold day? the runs are choppy af and hard to learn on.

when i teach anyone to ski, its going to be mid to late march, sunny, and 40 degrees +. Not January, 20 degrees, 6in of crud, and lift lines...