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Question for the Ski Techs

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oldmanski
Posts: 3075 - Karma: 21,629
When a customer fills out the form to have their bindings mounted or adjusted(for rentals) and they mark Level III.............What are your thoughts in your head after reading their form? Do you look at the person and think to yourself "Yeah right" or "Liar"? Look at their weight and size and think" no fucking way"? Interested in what the techs think about this.
Jul 30 2019 2:19PM
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 6162 - Karma: 66,340
Follow up question: what's the most thrown off you've been by someone doing/saying something totally different from what you expected from them
Jul 30 2019 2:22PM
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CalLich
Posts: 45 - Karma: 90
When I was working in Whistler, I would definitely take a second look at the customer if I felt some of the info was off. I would usually show it to them on the form and get them to confirm that it was all accurate and just double explain why it was important for safety. That was more so for the height and weight.

For skier type, I would usually just ask them questions about how often they ski, where they ski, what runs they like, how they like to ski. If I'm getting info that doesn't seem to line up with what they wrote on the form or if it seems like they just have no idea what they're talking about, I will just ask them again what their skier type is and extra explain what each one means.

At the end of the day, it is their choice. We can explain what each type means and why accuracy is important, but we can not recommend a number. Kinda sucks sometimes because I never want to see anyone put themselves at risk unnecessarily, but it is the reality of the job.
Jul 30 2019 2:57PM
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SendyMcSendyface
Posts: 2453 - Karma: 20,000
oldmanskiWhen a customer fills out the form to have their bindings mounted or adjusted(for rentals) and they mark Level III.............What are your thoughts in your head after reading their form? Do you look at the person and think to yourself "Yeah right" or "Liar"? Look at their weight and size and think" no fucking way"? Interested in what the techs think about this.


I often see customers bump up their skiing ability. Sometimes I'm really not sure if they are bullshitting, but sometimes its real easy to tell. I always go with what they put on the paper though. If some guy rolls up to the shop and he's dropping his gear, and looks like he has no idea what he is doing, I may take a moment to explain they level system to him, but normally, I'll just adjust it how they want. If a kook comes into the shop saying that he's a 3+, and I think he's bs'ing it, and set his DINs at 1, two things could happen.
1. He's some dude who actually rips, despite looking and acting like a gaper. Because I've set his DINs lower than he needs, he ejects at a bad time, hurts himself, and (justifiably) sues my dumb ass.
2. He's actually a gaper, does something stupid, eats shit, ejects, and gets hurt. Maybe patrol points out what his DINs are set at, and he realizes that they're not where he wanted them. It doesn't matter if he would have been more injured, or killed had his DINs been where he wanted them, in the eyes of the law, he is perfectly able to judge his own ability, and I have no right to change his shit without consent. He sues my ass.

If the customer is an adult, then they are perfectly capable of making their own decisions. If I believe that they are making the wrong one, I will try and advise them against it, but they have the final say in what I do to their skis.
Jul 30 2019 3:03PM
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Dunderflip
Posts: 535 - Karma: 2,444
when i was a rental tech i didnt get paid enough to care dude. you do what the paper says and hope that they drop a 5 in the tip boot when youre done
Jul 30 2019 3:52PM
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FaunaSkis
Posts: 590 - Karma: 6,489
The rental shops I've experienced in europe had greeters who discuss what level they are when theyre filling out the form so the tech doesn't have to think about it and can just set the bindings. It was the same as the shop I was a tech for.
Jul 30 2019 4:13PM
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CabbyArrant
Posts: 779 - Karma: 4,120
oldmanskiWhen a customer fills out the form to have their bindings mounted or adjusted(for rentals) and they mark Level III.............What are your thoughts in your head after reading their form? Do you look at the person and think to yourself "Yeah right" or "Liar"? Look at their weight and size and think" no fucking way"? Interested in what the techs think about this.


I dont really judge based on appearance. You can tell usually by talking to the customer though. Better skiers tend to underestimate their abilities but they also know what they want done to their skis and dont usually need suggestions. Poor skiers who mark type three are the worst. I had this exchange with a dude this last winter while doing his paperwork.
Me: sir you left your skier type blank, are you a type 1 2 or 3
Him: I'm a type 8
Me: I'm sorry, what is a type 8
Him: im an expert not a pro like 8 out of 10 that's how they do it in germany
Me: (trying not to laugh and not wanting to argue) for future reference sir the scale is from 1 to 3 in the states.
Him: set them at 3
Me: are you sure you want a type 3, type 2 or one would be safer in a fall.

He went with a type one. He was getting like 70 flex boots attached to a second hand pair of rental skis.

I was talking about waist width on skis with this same dude and he told me that mm were the European equivalent of cm. Point is this dude was a dipshit.
Jul 30 2019 4:40PM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1477 - Karma: 9,226
In my shop, the techs fill out the forms. So I'm able to ask you your level and be real about it with you. Instead of saying "type 3" or "advanced", I refer to maxed settings only as expert because a lot fewer people classify themselves as experts vs advanced. If someone seems indecisive, I tell them to go down to level 2. My usual line is; "The bottom 10% of skiers are level 1, the top 10% are level 3, and everyone else is level 2".

My bindings are fucking cranked, tho. So screw those jerrys.
Jul 30 2019 4:48PM
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tahoearmada20
Posts: 971 - Karma: 352
nope were paid to do what were asked
even if im sure the kid is fulla shit i will mount them the way they paid me to
Jul 30 2019 8:07PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 8894 - Karma: 57,171
CabbyArrantHim: I'm a type 8
Me: I'm sorry, what is a type 8

Just a heads up, there is a scale used in the US that is 1 to 9+ or something. It’s kinda gaper/hardo ski instructor shit but it exists
Jul 30 2019 9:41PM
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860media*
Posts: 1569 - Karma: 10,447
tahoearmada20nope were paid to do what were asked
even if im sure the kid is fulla shit i will mount them the way they paid me to


AMEN.
Jul 30 2019 10:02PM
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CabbyArrant
Posts: 779 - Karma: 4,120
SofaKingSickJust a heads up, there is a scale used in the US that is 1 to 9+ or something. It’s kinda gaper/hardo ski instructor shit but it exists


Well it's not the universal scale used for binding settings which pretty much everyone uses and everyone with at least a basic knowledge of ski equipment is aware of. His explanation of cm being used as a domestic unit of measure and mm being their foreign equivalent was enough to convince me that this guy is an imbecile. I'm aware some ski schools use their own scale to assess people's skill level but in shops we dont.
Jul 30 2019 10:19PM
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CabbyArrant
Posts: 779 - Karma: 4,120
FlorescentBoneFollow up question: what's the most thrown off you've been by someone doing/saying something totally different from what you expected from them


I was fitting a dude for a pair of boots last year. As I was talking to him he was telling me about an old pair of skis he bought off his buddy that he intended to use these boots with. After talking to him I became concerned as it sounded like the skis he bought used bindings that are no longer serviceable given their age. Shortly after the customers friend who sold him the skis wanders in and finds his buddy on my boot bench. The customer being a little distraught about the risk of his ski purchase proceeds to ask his buddy if the bindings are serviceable at which point the buddy looks at me and asks why they wouldn't be. I spent the next 10 minutes explaining to the friend why we can no longer service bindings after a certain age due to reliability/liability issues and that this is standard at all ski shops. During the midst of this while my customers boots were baking my customer had retrieves said skis from his car which his friend was now brandishing in the store. The friend became indignant that we were all just trying to get money out of him and his friend by refusing to service older equipment because the skis were indeed not serviceable. The friend then called me an idiot and demanded to speak to a manager. I was pretty pissed and walked back into the shop and grabbed my manager who is also a tech and a pretty no nonsense guy. I told him what was going on and he followed me out to meet the friend. As we walk out we find the friend trying to jam a random boot of the shelf into the binding of these God forsaken skis at which point my manager tells what the hell are you doing. And the guy goes ballistic carrying on about how I'm trying to scam people by not working on their shit. My boss takes one look at the skis and says that we wont service them and the friend asked well who can them if you wont. My manager pulls a screw driver out of his apron and hands it to the guy who looks at it and then at the skis. The guy then asks why we wont service them and my.manager gave the same 10 minute rant that I gave him. The guy then decides to continue trying to jame the random boot back into the binding again at which point my manager said that he would have to pay for the boota as he was damaging the rear of the sole. The friend just goes ballistic at this point now holding a screw driver which he throws and strikes another customer. At this point my manager is furious and he tells the customer to pay up and leave..... it ended up with the the customer refusing to pay, increasing belligerence from the friend, and 7ltimately the friend leaving in handcuffs. The poor customer was humiliated by how his friend acted and I ended up giving him a 10% discount off his boots and a pair of skis because he was super cool and bc he got screwed over and humiliated by his buddy.
Jul 30 2019 10:45PM
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9094 - Karma: 65,166
How to tell if a person shreds hard without seeing them ski:

1. How they carry their gear, you just know
2. Ski condition: you don't wear out newer skis being a complete beater
3. What skis?
4. Do they brag about how well they ski
If yes: likely beater; If no, really fucking good. Good skiers aren't bragging about how sick that line was usually, they'll say something much more vague like yep, Snow is good cant wait to get up there
Jul 31 2019 12:50AM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
One day I was fitting rental skis for some guy, and I was about to adjust the bindings, asking for his weight and level of skiing. He told me he was a "really good skier", and then when I asked how long he had been skiing for he said "oh you know, a couple weeks". Dead serious.
Jul 31 2019 2:10AM
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HypeBeast
Posts: 9766 - Karma: 72,242
Am I the only one who thinks this 1-3 scale is fucked? Personally I don't think I'll ever be able to say "yeah I'm a type 3, fuck yeah man". Just my personality to always underrate my skills. Obviously know I am above type 1. The description of type 2 is pretty remedial so I could categorize myself somewhere between 2 and 3 considering 3 is supposed to be "expert" but we all know that's isn't true. Regardless, I have to put 2. It would be better if there was a 5 or 10 point scale. Imagine if your doctor asked how bad is your pain on a scale of 1-3. That would be disastrous. The skier type system is outdated and needs revamped.

Although after saying all that, I'd say expert skiers probably know where they want their dins set and a rating system means nothing to them. Even if I select 3, using the calculator, it only increases the din by 1.5. The skier type scale is probably more set up for safety so even Jerry can't kill his ass. For example, when techs ask my dad what type he is, his response "advanced". At that point I interject and say, "no, select type 1" and give the tech a look conveying my dad is full of shit. I would guess techs get these types of people in their shops all the time.

Even using this scale I so despise, it seems to work out decently. My bindings hold me in and really only release when I want them to in most all occasions. I'm satisfied for now...
Jul 31 2019 6:45AM
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freeskibum82
Posts: 6355 - Karma: 5,055
we do seasonal kids rentals. I frequently hear that their 6yr old son "does blacks and rides the chairlift, he's a type three"

a lot of people equate level 1 = beginner, 2 = intermediate, 3 = expert and they immediately correlate them to the trail difficulties. I have worked with the sales staff to change it to novice, likes a variety of terrain and speeds, typically prefers high speed and challenging terrain. so they ask it that way. Any idiot can ski down a black diamond rated trail but how well did they ski it is the real question. pizza all the way down out of control does not mean you ski blacks. The general public is more than likely a 2. if anything they are only lying to their knees and i've got a signature so dial it up! If someone really is a type 3 they wouldnt be looking to rent beginner skis, they should be asking if they have anything for a more experienced skier for the day.
Jul 31 2019 8:21AM
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Dilldoes
Posts: 761 - Karma: 5,853
I always adjust my bindings after I leave the shop. I have been the victim of ejecto seat a few times and learned the lesson.
Jul 31 2019 8:35AM
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johnblaze
Posts: 1429 - Karma: 2,428
Dunderflipwhen i was a rental tech i didnt get paid enough to care dude. you do what the paper says and hope that they drop a 5 in the tip boot when youre done


This guy techs.
Jul 31 2019 10:34AM
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johnblaze
Posts: 1429 - Karma: 2,428
Dunderflipwhen i was a rental tech i didnt get paid enough to care dude. you do what the paper says and hope that they drop a 5 in the tip boot when youre done


This guy techs.
Jul 31 2019 10:35AM
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freeskibum82
Posts: 6355 - Karma: 5,055
johnblazeThis guy techs.


no.. this guy lazy techs. it's these kinds of people that shouldnt tech. we're there to educate the public as well and help them.. not just shrug our shoulders and go "whatever..."
Jul 31 2019 11:10AM
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GrandThings
Posts: 2930 - Karma: 28,716
Yeah I was legit embarrassed to say I was "type 3" skier last time I got a remount. Such a hardo thing to brag about
Jul 31 2019 11:17AM
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Dunderflip
Posts: 535 - Karma: 2,444
freeskibum82no.. this guy lazy techs. it's these kinds of people that shouldnt tech. we're there to educate the public as well and help them.. not just shrug our shoulders and go "whatever..."


pay me more
Jul 31 2019 11:29AM
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DominatorJacques
Posts: 11228 - Karma: 76,275
oldmanskiWhen a customer fills out the form to have their bindings mounted or adjusted(for rentals) and they mark Level III.............What are your thoughts in your head after reading their form? Do you look at the person and think to yourself "Yeah right" or "Liar"? Look at their weight and size and think" no fucking way"? Interested in what the techs think about this.

Level's are not about ability, they are about risk. The risk of destroying one's knee, or breaking a leg.
Good skiers know better than to set their bindings too tight.
Jul 31 2019 11:53AM
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freeskibum82
Posts: 6355 - Karma: 5,055
Dunderflippay me more


people actually tech for pay? (anyone who works in a ski shop knows what im talking about and it aint about the pay) skiing and its necessary equipment is not cheap
Jul 31 2019 3:26PM
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CalLich
Posts: 45 - Karma: 90
freeskibum82we do seasonal kids rentals. I frequently hear that their 6yr old son "does blacks and rides the chairlift, he's a type three"

a lot of people equate level 1 = beginner, 2 = intermediate, 3 = expert and they immediately correlate them to the trail difficulties. I have worked with the sales staff to change it to novice, likes a variety of terrain and speeds, typically prefers high speed and challenging terrain. so they ask it that way. Any idiot can ski down a black diamond rated trail but how well did they ski it is the real question. pizza all the way down out of control does not mean you ski blacks..


I agree. I think the official terminology is 1=cautious, 2=moderate, 3=aggressive. Then, they go into explaining turn types and control level kind of like you did. It is a shame to see so many people use the "expert" terminology and equate that to the runs they ride. Or, like you mentioned, a six year old kid who is and "expert" for their age. People don't realize that being better than their friends does not mean that they have any clue what they are doing.
Jul 31 2019 4:16PM
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SnickleFriz
Posts: 328 - Karma: 900
Do what the paper says or Vail will have your ass.
Jul 31 2019 5:06PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 36655 - Karma: 110,337
Tall T Dan taught us all about the Type III lifestyle which we all should abide by
Jul 31 2019 6:12PM
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Hangry
Posts: 156 - Karma: 713
oldmanskiWhen a customer fills out the form to have their bindings mounted or adjusted(for rentals) and they mark Level III.............What are your thoughts in your head after reading their form? Do you look at the person and think to yourself "Yeah right" or "Liar"? Look at their weight and size and think" no fucking way"? Interested in what the techs think about this.


I definitely have a bad stigma in my head where when I ask "So are you a type 1, type 2, or type 3/3+ skier" and they ask what that means and proceed to say 3 I get incredibly skeptical, but we can't override what they say, and have to mount accordingly.

As for how thrown off have I been? I had this bald guy come in who was 64 (I found out later) with a really sick Pow Surfer. I assumed it was for like his son or something like that, and as we were talking about getting it waxed he looked at my shop computer and saw my desktop photo is Candid Thovex from his Quattro commercial. Dude got stoked and started talking about how he remembered when Thovex sessioned chads gap (I didn't even know this) and told me he was headed BACK to Japan for an annual trip he takes to surf pow and meditate with the locals. I was at a loss for words, it was so rad.
Jul 31 2019 6:33PM
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OregonDead
Posts: 6789 - Karma: 23,474
I recommend getting a confirmation from the tech as to exactly where you want the mount and the DIN setting before they start working on your gear. I don’t care what level they think I am. I want things how I want them.
Jul 31 2019 6:41PM
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Hangry
Posts: 156 - Karma: 713
freeskibum82people actually tech for pay? (anyone who works in a ski shop knows what im talking about and it aint about the pay) skiing and its necessary equipment is not cheap


Man true on this. I get paid jack shit but it's about working with skis and within the industry, and even though a good chunk of customers don't know that much, it's so rewarding to meet skiers that know their shit and are as passionate as you are that you didn't know lived in your town. Plus, educating newcomers and getting them stoked on skiing is what it's all about.
Jul 31 2019 7:22PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4594 - Karma: 15,947
OregonDeadI recommend getting a confirmation from the tech as to exactly where you want the mount and the DIN setting before they start working on your gear. I don’t care what level they think I am. I want things how I want them.


This.

But my shop won't set my dins where I'd like ~8, so I may check the type 3+ or overstate my weight slightly to get them set how I'd like.

Yes I could just adjust them myself after the fact but I think using the machine release testing is more accurate than the indicator on the binding?
Jul 31 2019 8:13PM
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CalLich
Posts: 45 - Karma: 90
mystery3This.

But my shop won't set my dins where I'd like ~8, so I may check the type 3+ or overstate my weight slightly to get them set how I'd like.

Yes I could just adjust them myself after the fact but I think using the machine release testing is more accurate than the indicator on the binding?


The forward lean and twist release test just makes sure that the binding is releasing within the correct range of force for each din (measured in newton meters). It is not actually how they set the din. Din is just the measurement on the binding and can be adjusted with a screwdriver.

HOWEVER!! If you do not know what you are doing on a binding, I recommend taking it to a shop. Each binding has its own intricacies and little ways of adjusting DIN, forward pressure, and AFD height. All of these things affect how your boot will release. When in doubt, let the pro's handle it.

**This post was edited on Jul 31st 2019 at 8:43:06pm
Jul 31 2019 8:41PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4594 - Karma: 15,947
CalLichThe forward lean and twist release test just makes sure that the binding is releasing within the correct range of force for each din (measured in newton meters). It is not actually how they set the din. Din is just the measurement on the binding and can be adjusted with a screwdriver.

HOWEVER!! If you do not know what you are doing on a binding, I recommend taking it to a shop. Each binding has its own intricacies and little ways of adjusting DIN, forward pressure, and AFD height. All of these things affect how your boot will release. When in doubt, let the pro's handle it.

**This post was edited on Jul 31st 2019 at 8:43:06pm


Good to know thanks.

I'm pretty confident doing adjustments, at least on Attacks and Shifts. Apparently I'm actually better at adjusting shifts than the techs at my shop, it was probably one of the first sets they'd done but bothe pairs in my household came back with incorrectly adjusted forward pressure and afd height.
Jul 31 2019 9:23PM
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-olives
Posts: 545 - Karma: 2,819
oldmanskiWhen a customer fills out the form to have their bindings mounted or adjusted(for rentals) and they mark Level III.............What are your thoughts in your head after reading their form? Do you look at the person and think to yourself "Yeah right" or "Liar"? Look at their weight and size and think" no fucking way"? Interested in what the techs think about this.


worked in the rental shop at killington this past season and boy oh boy the shit that people say about themselves is absurd. "what length ski do you think your comfortable riding with?" (asking someone who puts themselves at 3 too see how familiar they are with equipment atleast) "hmm maybe 220?" or something else ridiculous is typically their response. now ya know they havent skied in about 2 decades... sir your 5'8 and these elans weigh more than you, now heres a pair of 150's with a wack din setting because you needed the most comfortable boot 2 sizes too big for your feet. take em and if you really really feel the need to take a longer ski for your self esteem come back after you get a feel for them. not too many jerrys end up coming back.

the wildest dins ive ever seen were from british school groups. man those brits are oddly shaped. youll get a 5'10 13 year old whos never skied before, weighs 100 pounds with a size 12 boot. shits fucked up.

(sorry for the unorganized rant, dealt with too much bull shit in the shop to properly pin point specific shit)
Jul 31 2019 10:43PM
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 12418 - Karma: 114,375
I purposely wear track pants and sweatshirt and mark 3+ to confuse you guys
Aug 1 2019 1:10AM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13040 - Karma: 18,223
Not a tech, but I noticed that if a rental customer rents out basic rental skis, they are a type 1 or 2. When they go for the higher end rental, they often know how to ski.
Aug 1 2019 4:08AM
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LukeTheWaffle
Posts: 1842 - Karma: 8,829
TRVP_ANGELI purposely wear track pants and sweatshirt and mark 3+ to confuse you guys

They think you're 12 anyway

**This post was edited on Aug 1st 2019 at 5:06:20am
Aug 1 2019 5:05AM
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johnblaze
Posts: 1429 - Karma: 2,428
freeskibum82no.. this guy lazy techs. it's these kinds of people that shouldnt tech. we're there to educate the public as well and help them.. not just shrug our shoulders and go "whatever..."


whatever.
Aug 1 2019 10:10AM
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freeskibum82
Posts: 6355 - Karma: 5,055
johnblazewhatever.


you forgot two dots after whatever. I'd probably ask you not to come back for the next season if you worked in the shop. Not really the attitude you should have.
Aug 1 2019 10:14AM
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johnblaze
Posts: 1429 - Karma: 2,428
freeskibum82you forgot two dots after whatever. I'd probably ask you not to come back for the next season if you worked in the shop. Not really the attitude you should have.


But it's my shop.
Aug 1 2019 3:56PM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1477 - Karma: 9,226
freestyler540Not a tech, but I noticed that if a rental customer rents out basic rental skis, they are a type 1 or 2. When they go for the higher end rental, they often know how to ski.


A few years ago when I was working demos, I had an asian customer and there was definitely a language barrier. She'd never skied before and thought demos were more expensive because they included a "demonstration", like a lesson. She was super confused when I handed her the skis and told her to have fun out there. She was like "No, no, you teach. You demonstrate". Nah, let's just refund this setup and get you that beginner lesson package.
Aug 1 2019 4:19PM
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oldmanski
Posts: 3075 - Karma: 21,629
Lots of great information here and thank you. I have wondered this a few different times when I have had some work done for me and I mark 3 on the form. Does the tech believe me, or am I just trying to bullshit them? I think most of you have a good judge of character when you do see what equipment they have or if something doesnt seem right you will talk to the skier themselves. Carry on
Aug 1 2019 4:47PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
I don't care as long as they sign the form. 90% of bindings I adjust for men is at a type 3.
Aug 2 2019 1:21AM
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DominatorJacques
Posts: 11228 - Karma: 76,275
Type
Weight
Height
Age
Boot Sole Length

The five factors can be found here: http://www.mechanicsofsport.com/skiing/equipment/bindings/din-calculator.html
Aug 2 2019 11:14AM
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Youngm_IPCME
Posts: 1082 - Karma: 2,848
DominatorJacquesType
Weight
Height
Age
Boot Sole Length

The five factors can be found here: http://www.mechanicsofsport.com/skiing/equipment/bindings/din-calculator.html


I think you misunderstood
Aug 2 2019 11:40AM
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DominatorJacques
Posts: 11228 - Karma: 76,275
Young_IPMCI think you misunderstood

I don't think so. I guess folks can take whatever risk level they want (Type) as long as they sign the paperwork.
Thing is, it only takes a few moments to explain that skier "Type" is a level of risk for breaking your leg, and not about ability. Once understood, most folks will see the light. Novice skiers usually don't want to risk a blown out knee etc.
The calculator is sweet. Once filled in, one can change any field, then re-calculate.
Aug 2 2019 5:45PM
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Youngm_IPCME
Posts: 1082 - Karma: 2,848
DominatorJacquesI don't think so. I guess folks can take whatever risk level they want (Type) as long as they sign the paperwork.
Thing is, it only takes a few moments to explain that skier "Type" is a level of risk for breaking your leg, and not about ability. Once understood, most folks will see the light. Novice skiers usually don't want to risk a blown out knee etc.
The calculator is sweet. Once filled in, one can change any field, then re-calculate.


No, I mean the thread was about what techs are thinking when people request adjustments, not “how do I adjust my skis?”
Aug 2 2019 5:54PM
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