Get the Ikon pass out of the cottonwoods

As a michigander who has been in utah barely 12 years, I dont have much room to talk about people making the trek here cuz my family had the same idea, and its a pretty natural thing for areas like Utah to blow up like many have already stated. Forget the skiing, we also have world-class recreation in all four seasons so thats bound to attract bikers, climbers, hikers, hunters, fisherman, etc. Change is inevitable.

Resort towns being madhouses are completely different issues to address honestly. That deals with living cost and wage situations forcing employees/locals to live elsewhere and like someone else said here, crowds are the norm in ski towns December - April. But not that anyone is right or wrong, i just dont get complaining about crowds and being a local when youre not really even from the areas. Like again not being a dick, but people are coming here for a reason and for people like us to act all territorial and get mad at folks for doing the same things for the same reasons we are is just silly.


Idk we're all just getting spun out over crowds. Pack some beers and weed to calm you down or just focus on skiing. The west is finally getting hammered again so we should just be happy about that

ericaI

@mystery3– as I referenced in my OP, the blame does fall on the resort for not having the resources to funnel this many people to and from the mountain. While I can't blame them for trying the IKON (it did sound like a great idea), but as someone who pays a lot of money to live and ski here I will continue to be critical on how they handle it– because it impacts my everyday life, not just days I go to the mountain.

I appreciate your well thought out response. I understand the frustration with traffic, cost of living, I live in the fucking bay area, I just think your anger is misplaced.

Should be a great spring!

More data; https://www.aspentimes.com/news/aspen-skiing-co-ikon-pass-accounts-for-9-of-visits-at-aspen-snowmass-local-pass-use-up-40/

Notice that the President of JH says that while 16% of skier visits are on the Ikon pass, half of them would have shown up on some other pass.....the Ikon deal only brought in one skier for every 12 or 13 that were already gonna be there.

erica"The relentless flow of guests creates long lines, traffic issues, insufficient parking, and packed restaurants." - Mary Kate Buckley, President of JHMR

"Net-net we attribute Ikon Pass holders as adding 8 percent incremental skier visits.” – JHMR President Mary Kate Buckley.
You failed to mention this ^^ quote.
And I do actually spend money in town. I easily dropped $120 at Whole Grocer, $160 at Roadhouse/Town Square Tavern and another $30 at the Caldera. But it's not town business owners that are hurting, it's workers who struggle to find housing.
You can embrace tourists, or just complain about it. But you are the one that chose to live in a tourist destination gaining winter popularity because... wait for it

of fat powder specific skis! It's not just the Ikon pass. Let's blame Shane McKonkey and the entire snowboarding industry for influencing more playful ski shapes!

Hate the game not the player. But if the game is the funnest thing ever, skiing, why hate anything??

And for the record I gave a lot to that town in my decade there including being appointed to the Integrated Solid Waste & Recycling Advisory Board, helped launch Hole Food Rescue, and hosted an environmental news show on KHOL. My time invested there does matter. And I'll happily visit with hoards of other people, and then snake all the "local's" favorite lines.

Haha yes!! the ikon pass scarlet letter was my idea. I'm making bank off Ikon tourists and I still skiied 2mil vert this year. Shrugs

ericaI should preface that I started this sentence "I don't want to sound entitled" because while I'm lucky to live in Jackson, I also work really hard to stay here. I formerly worked in the service industry, but with that being unsustainable longterm, I now have a 9-5 job, and work freelance and babysit on evenings and weekends to allow me to keep living in this place that has become home. Paying $2,200 for a season pass was a LARGE financial burden on me. One that impacted my finances for a majority of the winter. But I moved here to ski. And I spent that extra money to get a no-blackout pass so that every now and then when we get a huge dump I can sneak out of the office and go take a few laps. But unpredictable traffic keeps me from getting to work on time, it forces me to stay late, and it prevents me from sneaking in some of those laps (which excuse me for working hard to stay in a place that will allow me to do that).

"The relentless flow of guests creates long lines, traffic issues, insufficient parking, and packed restaurants." - Mary Kate Buckley, President of JHMR

@mystery3– as I referenced in my OP, the blame does fall on the resort for not having the resources to funnel this many people to and from the mountain. While I can't blame them for trying the IKON (it did sound like a great idea), but as someone who pays a lot of money to live and ski here I will continue to be critical on how they handle it– because it impacts my everyday life, not just days I go to the mountain.

@snomaster– How long you lived here and how long I've lived here is irrelevant– I work hard to stay here, and my routine is negatively impacted by the crowds from the IKON pass. I moved here from a city, and quite frankly I don't like traffic or cities which is why I live in Jackson and not SLC or Denver. Even Stilson parking lot fills up before 10am! The increased IKON pass traffic should mean huge economic gains for Jackson's local economy– but many of its customers (and you) stay on peoples couches, and don't give any money back to the local businesses who are getting their asses kicked by holiday crowds and shitty tips. Sorry not sorry for standing up for the town that I've chosen to build a life in.



Three cheers for the Mountain Collective pass, which gives affordable access to skiing without being a burden on infrastructure and the local community.

I can understand your frustration to some extent. Jackson skiers are getting screwed, they have increased crowds WITHOUT the benefit of getting a cheap pass. So you get the crowds without the cheap pass. But some of your comments are misplaced. First of all, it DOES matter that he had 10 years there and you only have three, if that his how long you have been there. After three years you will not have the same perspective as someone who has been there longer. I lived in Tahoe for 6 years and my perspective shifted as I was there longer. It must suck to not be able to sneak away for a few laps, that is the reason to have a real type job and live in a ski town. I would not even consider living in a ski town without the skiing.

Where are you making the connection that Ikon people are not giving anything back to the local community? I would guess that the vast majority of people staying there ARE paying for lodging. Even the ones who stay on people's couches are still buying food and beer in the restaurants and on the mountain. And what is with the comment about shitty tips? How do you know it is the Ikon people who are shitty tippers? Because it happened to a couple of your friends?

To be honest, Jackson might not be the place for you. It is extremely expensive, and that pass price is really tough. Back when Squaw had 1600 dollar passes lots of us would teach part time just to get the pass. You only had to show up 25 days, and usually they would make you show up for several lineups and send you off done for the day around noon. I'm not sure if Jackson has something like that, if you can teach part-time and have a different job. It really sucks to have a pass that expensive. A place with a cheaper pass and cost of living might suit you better. You will have to deal with it, because Jackson is NOT going to change because of you. The town and resort will do whatever it in their best interests, not yours.

It sounds like you have a 9-5 job. In general I would rather have a 9-5 in a real place not a mountain town. You make more money and you can still ski a ton. I would rather ski two days a week in Denver or Seattle than live in a place like Jackson. In my opinion if you are going to live in a ski town you want to be skiing at least about 4 days a week. If you ski two days a week with the occasional ski break, well that to me is not worth it. I left the Tahoe for grad school after six winters there, sometimes I stayed the summer, sometimes not. I ski a 3-day weekend at Mammoth every other weekend, with a 2-day trip sometimes thrown in. I also take a couple of 6-7 day trips. I probably spend an average of 30 hours a month driving to and from Mammoth in the winter, that is quite a bit to get my 40 days. But I am very glad I left. Mountain towns are pretty in the summer, but I can't see why anyone would want to live in one other than for skiing. Newport Beach has a better economy, better looking and more successful women, a better ratio of women and men, surfing, great weather, and a crossfit gym on every corner. I'm married so the bars don't matter to me any more. But Newport Beach has far more women that I would seriously consider dating than any ski town. To me the ONLY reason to live in a ski town is to ski, and if you are in a 9-5 you can't be skiing that much. If you need to supplement your income through babysitting you probably can't be making that much yet. I will make an exception for people that are doctors, they make enough to afford housing and it would be cool to be a doctor skiing 2-3 times a week. But you can do that from lots of cities AND have more of an all-around life. I had a cousin in the bay area who skied about 60 days a year at Squaw before he had kids. I always joke with him that he really screwed that one up. I know you don't like cities, but you really can make more money there. With few exceptions I would not want to be a 9-5er in a ski town, I just don't think it makes sense.

Newport Beach has some tourism issues too. It gets crowded and annoying in the summer. People complain. But there is a big difference between an attorney or a statistician or an actuary in Newport complaining when compared with someone in a mountain town. Tourism is actually a small percentage of the revenue in Newport, Orange County has lots of different elements to it's economy. I have lots of college friends who live here, and I don't know a single one who is in a tourist type industry. Newport Beach likes tourism, but it would be just fine without it. Pacific Life and PIMCO are not going anywhere. Ski towns are essentially only tourism. There is basically no other serious industry. Even if you don't work directly in that industry, the town you live in would basically not exist without tourism. Eventually most locals realize that. My first winter I hated tourists, and that is understandable, but I would not have had a job without the tourists.

Like it or not, Jackson is going to make decisions that benefit its bottom line. You can either accept that and deal with it, or complain. You complaining will not do anything, but if you mobilize your community and speak to city council members you might be able to address the issues with public transportation. Mammoth has had a parking issue for years. There are not truly big lots, so people end up parking along the road and being shuttled to the mountain. In the last decade they have made huge strides in the bus system. I almost never drive to the mountain now, I only do so In after the middle of April or before the middle of December, when it is not all that crowded. Hopefully Jackson can address these issues.

Like I said, I can understand you being frustrated. You are getting all the crowds of the Ikon without being able to pay 900 for a full Jackson pass. I would probably be pissed to. But you are not entitled to not have traffic where you live. You have chosen to live in a town which essentially exists only because of the mountain. The mountain is going to make decisions it views as in its best interests, even when those decisions make living conditions more difficult for the locals. You will just have to deal with that. The sooner you accept it the happier you will be. I'm not saying I like that, I think it sucks, but that is just the way it is. You can complain, or you can try to do whatever you can to improve the situation.

You are NOT entitled to a cheap pass. You are also NOT entitled to having an easy commute to the mountain. Ski towns are tough. You are not the first person to discover that. If a cheap pass and an easy mountain commute are important to you Jackson might not be the place.

But yeah, Jackson and LCC locals are getting pretty hosed by the Ikon. At least California skiers get a cheap pass.

Ikon shit fest at solitude today holy fuck...

eheathIkon shit fest at solitude today holy fuck...

Saturday pow day with Little Cottonwood closed... What do you expect? It would have been a shit show getting up the canyon without any Ikon ski traffic, just like it has been the past few years. Just be thankful the roads weren't snowy in the valley and canyon, that's where it really gets comical.

That being said, I had a great day up Big Cottonwood today. Skied plenty of pow, didn't wait for more than 7-8 minutes in a lift line once the lifts started spinning, and will be going back for more tomorrow. Complaining about the Ikon pass is like complaining about a popular restaurant that always has a wait for a table. You going to ridicule the restaurant owner because they have a good business model/good food/high demand?

I'm not saying I'm happy the Ikon pass exists, but I'm also not thrilled with how trendy surfing and mountain biking has gotten these past years but I'm not screaming at those learning a new hobby. If I want less crowded waves, trails, or skiing, I know all I have to do is put in a little more work instead of picking off the low hanging fruit that everyone knows exists.

dylholeSaturday pow day with Little Cottonwood closed... What do you expect? It would have been a shit show getting up the canyon without any Ikon ski traffic, just like it has been the past few years. Just be thankful the roads weren't snowy in the valley and canyon, that's where it really gets comical.

That being said, I had a great day up Big Cottonwood today. Skied plenty of pow, didn't wait for more than 7-8 minutes in a lift line once the lifts started spinning, and will be going back for more tomorrow. Complaining about the Ikon pass is like complaining about a popular restaurant that always has a wait for a table. You going to ridicule the restaurant owner because they have a good business model/good food/high demand?

I'm not saying I'm happy the Ikon pass exists, but I'm also not thrilled with how trendy surfing and mountain biking has gotten these past years but I'm not screaming at those learning a new hobby. If I want less crowded waves, trails, or skiing, I know all I have to do is put in a little more work instead of picking off the low hanging fruit that everyone knows exists.

Well said

dylholeSaturday pow day with Little Cottonwood closed... What do you expect? It would have been a shit show getting up the canyon without any Ikon ski traffic, just like it has been the past few years. Just be thankful the roads weren't snowy in the valley and canyon, that's where it really gets comical.

That being said, I had a great day up Big Cottonwood today. Skied plenty of pow, didn't wait for more than 7-8 minutes in a lift line once the lifts started spinning, and will be going back for more tomorrow. Complaining about the Ikon pass is like complaining about a popular restaurant that always has a wait for a table. You going to ridicule the restaurant owner because they have a good business model/good food/high demand?

I'm not saying I'm happy the Ikon pass exists, but I'm also not thrilled with how trendy surfing and mountain biking has gotten these past years but I'm not screaming at those learning a new hobby. If I want less crowded waves, trails, or skiing, I know all I have to do is put in a little more work instead of picking off the low hanging fruit that everyone knows exists.

First of all I agree that on hill was fine (other than the honeycomb return taking 20-30 minutes at first) the snow was great today, but that's not really my issue with the situation, parking and traffic are the issues. I understand these issues are tough to solve in the short term, but it affects everyone's overall experience.

Today was the worst I've ever seen BCC, I think it has LCC beat now as the worse canyon. Nobody probably thought the Ikon would have this much effect year 1 but it's certainly showing. Yeah it's a good year, lots of skiers, overall yes that is a great thing for skiing. Hopefully the traffic and parking issues are dealt with by next season, but it seems like we're looking at a major overhaul of the transportation systems of the cottonwoods.

Doing 3 days at snowbird and 2 days at Brighton in 2 weeks for spring break. Tuesday-Saturday. How early should we be heading up the canyons to get a parking spot? This thread makes it sound like a shitshow if your a little late

eheathFirst of all I agree that on hill was fine (other than the honeycomb return taking 20-30 minutes at first) the snow was great today, but that's not really my issue with the situation, parking and traffic are the issues. I understand these issues are tough to solve in the short term, but it affects everyone's overall experience.

Today was the worst I've ever seen BCC, I think it has LCC beat now as the worse canyon. Nobody probably thought the Ikon would have this much effect year 1 but it's certainly showing. Yeah it's a good year, lots of skiers, overall yes that is a great thing for skiing. Hopefully the traffic and parking issues are dealt with by next season, but it seems like we're looking at a major overhaul of the transportation systems of the cottonwoods.

Until they make public transportation more convenient than driving, I don't see anything changing. Seems like they could turn that quarry or whatever it is off Wasatch into a giant parking lot with buses running every 10 minutes. Turn Big and Little into Zion NP, with no private cars allowed - just lots and lots of buses. That being said, I've accepted the current shit show that's unfolding and choose to deal with it instead of skiing Pow Mow/Snowbasin or moving. The traffic just forces me to get up a little earlier than I used to, but I get to have another cup of coffee in the lodge before the lifts start spinning. We are all part of the problem and it doesn't do any good to point fingers at tourists or the growing mountain west. You're a transplant, I'm a transplant, as are most of the people I ski with. We are no more entitled to the Wasatch than a tourist (although I am extremely annoyed with shitty drivers and people who can't traverse). At the end of the day, it's pretty fucking sweet so many people are getting outside and enjoying the mountains instead of watching tv or playing video games.

dylholeUntil they make public transportation more convenient than driving, I don't see anything changing. Seems like they could turn that quarry or whatever it is off Wasatch into a giant parking lot with buses running every 10 minutes. Turn Big and Little into Zion NP, with no private cars allowed - just lots and lots of buses. That being said, I've accepted the current shit show that's unfolding and choose to deal with it instead of skiing Pow Mow/Snowbasin or moving. The traffic just forces me to get up a little earlier than I used to, but I get to have another cup of coffee in the lodge before the lifts start spinning. We are all part of the problem and it doesn't do any good to point fingers at tourists or the growing mountain west. You're a transplant, I'm a transplant, as are most of the people I ski with. We are no more entitled to the Wasatch than a tourist (although I am extremely annoyed with shitty drivers and people who can't traverse). At the end of the day, it's pretty fucking sweet so many people are getting outside and enjoying the mountains instead of watching tv or playing video games.

Yeah I dunno what they're gonna do, but I think you're right.

As for the shit show, I've had some of the best powder days of my life this year and it definitely includes leaving park city at 6am, really the only way to do it. I'm feeling the same as you here, I'm definitely not moving anytime soon, so the only thing to do is to deal, I didn't mean to come off like I deserve the wasatch over anyone else, the situation is just shocking overall. These resorts will likely continue to partner with Alterra as we are probably going to break skier-day records this year and we will all adapt.

ericabut many of its customers (and you) stay on peoples couches, and don't give any money back to the local businesses who are getting their asses kicked by holiday crowds and shitty tips. Sorry not sorry for standing up for the town that I've chosen to build a life in.

Is it based on some actual evidence or just this one guy's post and you chatting 2 IKON pass holders in the line? You are sort of implying that the IKON pass only brings problems to Jackson and the local community is not profiting from that extra traffic because they don't spend money there, which I find hard to believe.



Reading the answers in this thread it sounds like people are implying that if the IKON pass didn't exist, IKON pass holders wouldn't ski at all. This is a huge leap. It's not like people who never skied before are hearing of the IKON pass and all of a sudden rushing to the mountains to snake your lines. My bet would be that the vast majority of IKON pass holders are people who previously had a season pass somewhere, so these days they are skiing at JHMR, they're not skiing where they were previously skiing. My guess is that those days are mostly transferred from one resort to another and not simply additions to the overall.

I'm personally considering getting one next season, I like skiing a little bit all over. This season I had my pass at Snowbasin (Mountain Collective) so I skied JHMR, Alta, the bird, enjoying the 50% discount. And paid full price for other places like Brighton. But those idiots canceled for next season and are joining Epic, and I'm not one bit interested in the resorts that it would give me a discount for. So it would just make good sense financially for me to switch to IKON.

So let's say I get the IKON, my days at Alta next year would be IKON days, but without IKON I'd still be skiing there like I was this year, so my point is that people thinking removing IKON would reduce traffic by 30% because IKON now represents 30% of skier days are fooling themselves. A lot of people will ski there regardless and are just enjoying a good deal, no shame in that.


I smell jealousy and misplaced anger in this thread.

dylholeUntil they make public transportation more convenient than driving, I don't see anything changing. Seems like they could turn that quarry or whatever it is off Wasatch into a giant parking lot with buses running every 10 minutes. Turn Big and Little into Zion NP, with no private cars allowed - just lots and lots of buses. That being said, I've accepted the current shit show that's unfolding and choose to deal with it instead of skiing Pow Mow/Snowbasin or moving. The traffic just forces me to get up a little earlier than I used to, but I get to have another cup of coffee in the lodge before the lifts start spinning. We are all part of the problem and it doesn't do any good to point fingers at tourists or the growing mountain west. You're a transplant, I'm a transplant, as are most of the people I ski with. We are no more entitled to the Wasatch than a tourist (although I am extremely annoyed with shitty drivers and people who can't traverse). At the end of the day, it's pretty fucking sweet so many people are getting outside and enjoying the mountains instead of watching tv or playing video games.

my homie and i got mad lucky today, hopped on the bus at the sandy historic station at 8:10 and we were up at alta by 9:20, we got a police escort on the way up which let us skip most of the traffic before the canyon. most of the time taking the bus blows but today it was clutch

Real talk. You want problems? Check out Epic Pass Denver traffic.

mystery3I can't tell if serious or not?

Ikon Pass has nothing to do with South Lake. Traffic around Squaw and Alpine has sucked probably since the 1960 Olympics.

I'm fully braced and am embracing the $619 renewal for my pass, less than four days to break-even. I can't afford not to buy it.

eheathFirst of all I agree that on hill was fine (other than the honeycomb return taking 20-30 minutes at first) the snow was great today, but that's not really my issue with the situation, parking and traffic are the issues. I understand these issues are tough to solve in the short term, but it affects everyone's overall experience.

Today was the worst I've ever seen BCC, I think it has LCC beat now as the worse canyon. Nobody probably thought the Ikon would have this much effect year 1 but it's certainly showing. Yeah it's a good year, lots of skiers, overall yes that is a great thing for skiing. Hopefully the traffic and parking issues are dealt with by next season, but it seems like we're looking at a major overhaul of the transportation systems of the cottonwoods.

youre funny
what do ya got maybe 20 days at the tude in 10 years
been my home mountain for 22 seasons
and it went from no season passes
you needed to buy into the gare bears euro village dream and get debenture passes or be an employee
and solitude into an ikonic shit show of multitudes
with an aproaching hour honeycomb lift lines cause you wont open the og return trail or the works like ass 2 rfid gates going into a quad with 1 overworked lifty.
and the fact that it was still only 1/2 hour at 7 from canyon bottom to lot while the closed canyon little lemming line was already parked to bengal b and didnt move till after 8 makes your definition of worse look silly and once again uninformed
props to upd for going on a fts tow truck theses self entitled get up late and park wherever we want fucks roll like ive never seen before
that is the kinda lesson they will learn from

a_burgerDoing 3 days at snowbird and 2 days at Brighton in 2 weeks for spring break. Tuesday-Saturday. How early should we be heading up the canyons to get a parking spot? This thread makes it sound like a shitshow if your a little late

Monday - Thursdays are nice. It should be widely expected ether powdays or weekend powdays are gonna be madness so its the new norm in skiing, but getting up there around 9-10am on a weekday wouldnt be an issue at all. Ive gotten plenty of days in at snowbird in the last few years starting at like 11-12.

This is a well spoken thought.

RRhighriderLetter from Big Sky GM
http://www.explorebigsky.com/guest-editorial-be-kind-to-ikon-pass-holders

Dear Big Sky Community,

When I first came to Big Sky almost 40 years ago I was embraced by the community. Thanks Pirate, Betsy, Kelly, Curly, John, Tim, Sally, Mike, Dan, Jodean, Doug, Chris, Walter and countless others for making me feel so welcome back then. That same welcome has awaited most everyone coming since, whether we arrived five years ago or 50. Big Sky is a welcoming place.

Recently, local social media channels are revealing a rash of really negative postings, shunning new visitors and treating new arrivals differently than we were treated ourselves. Sadly, I just read this message from a recent guest:

“… We’re from the UK and have been skiing in North America every year for the past 15 years. We’ve had epic passes, mountain collective, and this year we bought the Ikon base pass. We usually make 2 three week ski trips each season and love the freedom to travel and explore that the multi-centre passes give us. We’ve never encountered any negative reaction to us as holders of these sort of passes- until this year! At Big Sky they were selling bumper stickers saying ‘IKON [not] wait for you to leave’ …”

That note made me really sad because this guest did not experience the warm welcoming culture that our broad community has historically offered. A few people have been targeting these new guests with mean messages phrased around a concept that Big Sky is becoming too busy and newcomers are to blame.

Most everyone knows that Big Sky Resort recently joined two national season ski pass programs, Ikon and Mountain Collective. This move is enhancing the Big Sky brand and showcasing our community to new guests who pour spending into our community. These programs are just another piece in the long-term strategy to move Big Sky into a league of America’s best resorts, right where we belong. Our community is growing as our guests discover and fall in love with Big Sky, just like each of us have.

It’s busier now than it used to be. Is it too busy? The facts say Big Sky is one of the least crowded ski destinations offering more acres per skier than any major resort. In three years, we’ve constructed four modern lifts adding quality and increasing uphill capacity by 1,600 skiers per hour. We’ve made no secret that more on-mountain upgrades are planned.

Many of us know it can be hard to make it in a small resort town. Individuals can struggle. Small businesses can struggle. Big businesses can struggle. Not too long ago, many businesses here, small and large, were going broke and residents were moving away because we did not have enough guests to support the town. The good news is that today Big Sky is thriving. Striking the right balance between prosperity and broke can be complicated. I’ll tell you from personal experience, it’s a lot more fun to be managing success than downsizing.

My life here, our lives here, are made possible by visitors. Big Sky’s culture is friendly and welcoming. We were all new at some point; these guests are our newest visitors.

So here we are: We want a thriving economy without falling into that old ski town trap of not wanting others to come after we arrived. We want more and faster lifts but don’t like anyone else skiing our favorite line. The conundrum, of course, is that our community is stronger with many guests and the services they help us afford. I’m not just talking about ski lifts either. Banks, schools, grocery stores, a hospital and a theater make Big Sky more livable and fun.

I don’t enjoy traffic or lift lines either. I get it. Still, my personal experience is that Big Sky is a more livable place today than it was 40, or 20 or 10 years ago, and that’s because so many people have found our good town and our good people, and their visits have helped us afford these improvements.

I’m committed to working hard to help Big Sky grow better, and I know countless others that are too. I’m also committed to keeping this a fun place, with loads of fun people, who do fun stuff, and I know a boatload of you feel the same way. We’re a friendly and welcoming bunch. Please keep sharing that, continue paying it forward, just like that group of pals did with me 40 years ago.

a_burgerDoing 3 days at snowbird and 2 days at Brighton in 2 weeks for spring break. Tuesday-Saturday. How early should we be heading up the canyons to get a parking spot? This thread makes it sound like a shitshow if your a little late

Whatever floats your boat. I personally leave at 8:30 from downtown slc and get there around 9:15. if there’s no new snow i start off following the sun til the whole mountain softens up around 11:30. If it’s a pow day I warm up the car at 7, leave 7:10 and will probably get there around 9:15 due to traffic. I don’t mind getting up there early it’s nice seeing the regulars in the lodge.
If you wanna Aprés Alta has $2 16 oz high life’s on Tuesday’s

a_burgerDoing 3 days at snowbird and 2 days at Brighton in 2 weeks for spring break. Tuesday-Saturday. How early should we be heading up the canyons to get a parking spot? This thread makes it sound like a shitshow if your a little late

Go to Breckinridge instead .

DeebieSkeebiesAs a michigander who has been in utah barely 12 years, I dont have much room to talk about people making the trek here cuz my family had the same idea, and its a pretty natural thing for areas like Utah to blow up like many have already stated. Forget the skiing, we also have world-class recreation in all four seasons so thats bound to attract bikers, climbers, hikers, hunters, fisherman, etc. Change is inevitable.

Resort towns being madhouses are completely different issues to address honestly. That deals with living cost and wage situations forcing employees/locals to live elsewhere and like someone else said here, crowds are the norm in ski towns December - April. But not that anyone is right or wrong, i just dont get complaining about crowds and being a local when youre not really even from the areas. Like again not being a dick, but people are coming here for a reason and for people like us to act all territorial and get mad at folks for doing the same things for the same reasons we are is just silly.


Idk we're all just getting spun out over crowds. Pack some beers and weed to calm you down or just focus on skiing. The west is finally getting hammered again so we should just be happy about that

You bring up a good point, I havent lived in utah for a year yet and i already bitch about how many tourists are here meanwhile a lot live here like half year. But yes we have just to much fun shit to offer here and neighboring states, also we have the great Mormon religion.

uhg for real, the ikon totally wrecked big sky, i cant find any place to park past like 10 am, and all my pow spots are getting destroyed. Rip lone tree. i know its not as bad as other spots, but for real the place has gotten like two three times more crowded on the weekends.

roddy116uhg for real, the ikon totally wrecked big sky, i cant find any place to park past like 10 am, and all my pow spots are getting destroyed. Rip lone tree. i know its not as bad as other spots, but for real the place has gotten like two three times more crowded on the weekends.

Another thing, the prices are just skyrocketing, it cost me 1200 for my pass, and in two years its gonna cost me 1500 assuming they dont raise the price. and the blackout dates are barely worthit because i will be skiing those weekends and a ticket is like 180 dollars or some shit like that. locals are getting absolutely fucked, we dont even have another option rather than bridger, which i refuse to do, ever.

Snowbird was only unusually busy today on a monday due to it being spring breaks for folks and they hadn't opened Road to Provo all weekend......A typical ropedrop gongshow but not as bad as it could be, say if this was 24hours prior there would be no shit probably 300 people there.....

https://coloradosun.com/2019/03/12/epic-pass-ikon-pass-lines-aspen-telluride/

When Vail does it, everyone's a winner :/

Monsieur_PatateIs it based on some actual evidence or just this one guy's post and you chatting 2 IKON pass holders in the line? You are sort of implying that the IKON pass only brings problems to Jackson and the local community is not profiting from that extra traffic because they don't spend money there, which I find hard to believe.



Reading the answers in this thread it sounds like people are implying that if the IKON pass didn't exist, IKON pass holders wouldn't ski at all. This is a huge leap. It's not like people who never skied before are hearing of the IKON pass and all of a sudden rushing to the mountains to snake your lines. My bet would be that the vast majority of IKON pass holders are people who previously had a season pass somewhere, so these days they are skiing at JHMR, they're not skiing where they were previously skiing. My guess is that those days are mostly transferred from one resort to another and not simply additions to the overall.

My evidence comes from Travel & Tourism Board meetings that I have attended, with representatives from local hotels, JHMR, JH Central Reservations, the Airport, etc. While the Town of Jackson has seen an increase in revenue, that increase is at a higher rate vs. the increase in traffic.

IKON pass holders are skiing here for 4-7 days, where Mtn collective pass holders + day ticket purchasers skied here 2-3 if that makes sense. Essentially, they're staying here longer.

**This post was edited on Mar 14th 2019 at 12:58:08pm

Interesting article from Outside Online. Really good read and I recommend it to you whether or not you support the mega-passes.


"Big Sky, Montana, was recently added to the Ikon Pass network, and already locals are feeling the housing squeeze. “All the affordable long-term rentals we had before this year are now off the market and seem to be on VRBO,” said a longtime local and resort employee, who requested anonymity for fear of losing their job. “It’s priced out all the people that support this town. I know of resort employees living in tents in the forest. People here are really pissed off.” One could blame global market forces and nationwide shortages for housing crunches (and they would not be totally wrong), but massive pass systems bringing large swarms of people to small mountain towns certainly don’t help."

This rental price/VRBO argument is interesting, and something we've seen in Jackson Hole as driving up rent prices/ causing a housing shortage. It will be interesting to see the impacts of the increase in IKON and winter traffic, and if some properties that are VRBO summer/ winter rentals become year-round VRBO.

ericaInteresting article from Outside Online. Really good read and I recommend it to you whether or not you support the mega-passes.


"Big Sky, Montana, was recently added to the Ikon Pass network, and already locals are feeling the housing squeeze. “All the affordable long-term rentals we had before this year are now off the market and seem to be on VRBO,” said a longtime local and resort employee, who requested anonymity for fear of losing their job. “It’s priced out all the people that support this town. I know of resort employees living in tents in the forest. People here are really pissed off.” One could blame global market forces and nationwide shortages for housing crunches (and they would not be totally wrong), but massive pass systems bringing large swarms of people to small mountain towns certainly don’t help."

This rental price/VRBO argument is interesting, and something we've seen in Jackson Hole as driving up rent prices/ causing a housing shortage. It will be interesting to see the impacts of the increase in IKON and winter traffic, and if some properties that are VRBO summer/ winter rentals become year-round VRBO.

Just to look aty the other side of the argument...if you were so inclined could you buy property in J hole and build housing on it easily or would you be subject to a massive months or years long permitting process with council meetings and nimbyism looking to restrict what you can and cannot do with property particularly multi-family housing thus creating an artificially low number of available housing units driving up per unit costs?

As an east coaster, im jealous of the west guys complaining about long lift lines. You guys have no idea! Ive been at killington where lift lines at the base were 30+ minutes. You learn what lifts to take and how to avoid them but eventually you are going to get stuck on a line.

ericaMy evidence comes from Travel & Tourism Board meetings that I have attended, with representatives from local hotels, JHMR, JH Central Reservations, the Airport, etc. While the Town of Jackson has seen an increase in revenue, that increase is at a higher rate vs. the increase in traffic.

IKON pass holders are skiing here for 4-7 days, where Mtn collective pass holders + day ticket purchasers skied here 2-3 if that makes sense. Essentially, they're staying here longer.

**This post was edited on Mar 14th 2019 at 12:58:08pm

Ok, so if I get this right businesses are seeing a revenue increase, but it does not correlate to the increase in traffic. Meaning the traffic increase is more important than the revenue increase is. Again, I think anecdotal evidence doesn't really qualify as fact, and what would be interesting is to see an actual study on this. Perception is often different than reality, especially in economics.

But anyway, it seems like JHMR and the local businesses are making a buck here and IKON serves their bottom line which is making more money, so I'm guessing they'll take it and are probably not interested in seeing this additional revenue disappear. The ones getting stiffed are the ski bums and average workers, who are seeing an increase in pass cost, housing costs, road traffic, and still getting paid the same, hence their purchasing power going down.

I can understand the frustration, and I think it sucks that the wealth is not being spread around.

Monsieur_PatateThe ones getting stiffed are the ski bums and average workers, who are seeing an increase in pass cost, housing costs, road traffic, and still getting paid the same, hence their purchasing power going down.

I can understand the frustration, and I think it sucks that the wealth is not being spread around.

Yep, it's just frustrating. Nailed in on the head.

EDIT: To your other point re: evidence, the reports will be public information eventually, and when I have the actual numbers I will report back.

**This post was edited on Mar 14th 2019 at 2:34:32pm

ericaInteresting article from Outside Online. Really good read and I recommend it to you whether or not you support the mega-passes.

Agreed this is great, but given the quote you selected I feel like you're missing the big picture. From the op-ed by JH's president;

Mary Kate BuckleyVirtually every major resort in North America is participating in either the Ikon or Epic pass. The majority of Americans who are taking a destination ski trip this year purchased one or both passes.

While our owners, the Kemmerer family, are committed to retaining independent ownership, Jackson Hole Mountain Resort recognized that we might not be able to survive as a stand-alone destination resort. In October 2017 the resort signed an agreement committing Jackson Hole Mountain Resort to multiyear participation in the Ikon Pass that commenced this 2018-19 season.

Several reasons the resort selected Ikon over Epic include (1) Ikon’s projection that it would sell a limited number of passes (versus Epic’s 1 million passes) and (2) Ikon’s recognition that all resorts are unique, allowing member resorts to maintain their independence. If Jackson Hole had chosen not to participate in one of those passes we risked not being considered, and skier visits might have dropped to levels at which we could not sustain our operations.

The owners don't want to sell, but the company understands that the landscape has changed. As a publicly traded company, Vail brought Wall Street investors into battle. The unbridled greed of the investment class is the real enemy here, and Vail works for them.

While Jackson Hole seems like the least vulnerable resort to go it alone, they get that Vail is playing Monopoly with a book full of signed blank checks. Vail paid what seemed like way too much for Canyons, until we realize that the plan was to get PCMR and Deer Valley as well. Vail paid what seemed like way too much for Whistler, until we realize that Intrawest would have made it part of Alterra.

The president's words make it clear that JHMR chose the lesser of two evils, and didn't see a viable 3rd option at the time.

**This post was edited on Mar 14th 2019 at 5:32:50pm