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ericaI
@mystery3– as I referenced in my OP, the blame does fall on the resort for not having the resources to funnel this many people to and from the mountain. While I can't blame them for trying the IKON (it did sound like a great idea), but as someone who pays a lot of money to live and ski here I will continue to be critical on how they handle it– because it impacts my everyday life, not just days I go to the mountain.
erica"The relentless flow of guests creates long lines, traffic issues, insufficient parking, and packed restaurants." - Mary Kate Buckley, President of JHMR
ericaI should preface that I started this sentence "I don't want to sound entitled" because while I'm lucky to live in Jackson, I also work really hard to stay here. I formerly worked in the service industry, but with that being unsustainable longterm, I now have a 9-5 job, and work freelance and babysit on evenings and weekends to allow me to keep living in this place that has become home. Paying $2,200 for a season pass was a LARGE financial burden on me. One that impacted my finances for a majority of the winter. But I moved here to ski. And I spent that extra money to get a no-blackout pass so that every now and then when we get a huge dump I can sneak out of the office and go take a few laps. But unpredictable traffic keeps me from getting to work on time, it forces me to stay late, and it prevents me from sneaking in some of those laps (which excuse me for working hard to stay in a place that will allow me to do that).
"The relentless flow of guests creates long lines, traffic issues, insufficient parking, and packed restaurants." - Mary Kate Buckley, President of JHMR
@mystery3– as I referenced in my OP, the blame does fall on the resort for not having the resources to funnel this many people to and from the mountain. While I can't blame them for trying the IKON (it did sound like a great idea), but as someone who pays a lot of money to live and ski here I will continue to be critical on how they handle it– because it impacts my everyday life, not just days I go to the mountain.
@snomaster– How long you lived here and how long I've lived here is irrelevant– I work hard to stay here, and my routine is negatively impacted by the crowds from the IKON pass. I moved here from a city, and quite frankly I don't like traffic or cities which is why I live in Jackson and not SLC or Denver. Even Stilson parking lot fills up before 10am! The increased IKON pass traffic should mean huge economic gains for Jackson's local economy– but many of its customers (and you) stay on peoples couches, and don't give any money back to the local businesses who are getting their asses kicked by holiday crowds and shitty tips. Sorry not sorry for standing up for the town that I've chosen to build a life in.
Three cheers for the Mountain Collective pass, which gives affordable access to skiing without being a burden on infrastructure and the local community.
eheathIkon shit fest at solitude today holy fuck...
dylholeSaturday pow day with Little Cottonwood closed... What do you expect? It would have been a shit show getting up the canyon without any Ikon ski traffic, just like it has been the past few years. Just be thankful the roads weren't snowy in the valley and canyon, that's where it really gets comical.
That being said, I had a great day up Big Cottonwood today. Skied plenty of pow, didn't wait for more than 7-8 minutes in a lift line once the lifts started spinning, and will be going back for more tomorrow. Complaining about the Ikon pass is like complaining about a popular restaurant that always has a wait for a table. You going to ridicule the restaurant owner because they have a good business model/good food/high demand?
I'm not saying I'm happy the Ikon pass exists, but I'm also not thrilled with how trendy surfing and mountain biking has gotten these past years but I'm not screaming at those learning a new hobby. If I want less crowded waves, trails, or skiing, I know all I have to do is put in a little more work instead of picking off the low hanging fruit that everyone knows exists.
dylholeSaturday pow day with Little Cottonwood closed... What do you expect? It would have been a shit show getting up the canyon without any Ikon ski traffic, just like it has been the past few years. Just be thankful the roads weren't snowy in the valley and canyon, that's where it really gets comical.
That being said, I had a great day up Big Cottonwood today. Skied plenty of pow, didn't wait for more than 7-8 minutes in a lift line once the lifts started spinning, and will be going back for more tomorrow. Complaining about the Ikon pass is like complaining about a popular restaurant that always has a wait for a table. You going to ridicule the restaurant owner because they have a good business model/good food/high demand?
I'm not saying I'm happy the Ikon pass exists, but I'm also not thrilled with how trendy surfing and mountain biking has gotten these past years but I'm not screaming at those learning a new hobby. If I want less crowded waves, trails, or skiing, I know all I have to do is put in a little more work instead of picking off the low hanging fruit that everyone knows exists.
eheathFirst of all I agree that on hill was fine (other than the honeycomb return taking 20-30 minutes at first) the snow was great today, but that's not really my issue with the situation, parking and traffic are the issues. I understand these issues are tough to solve in the short term, but it affects everyone's overall experience.
Today was the worst I've ever seen BCC, I think it has LCC beat now as the worse canyon. Nobody probably thought the Ikon would have this much effect year 1 but it's certainly showing. Yeah it's a good year, lots of skiers, overall yes that is a great thing for skiing. Hopefully the traffic and parking issues are dealt with by next season, but it seems like we're looking at a major overhaul of the transportation systems of the cottonwoods.
dylholeUntil they make public transportation more convenient than driving, I don't see anything changing. Seems like they could turn that quarry or whatever it is off Wasatch into a giant parking lot with buses running every 10 minutes. Turn Big and Little into Zion NP, with no private cars allowed - just lots and lots of buses. That being said, I've accepted the current shit show that's unfolding and choose to deal with it instead of skiing Pow Mow/Snowbasin or moving. The traffic just forces me to get up a little earlier than I used to, but I get to have another cup of coffee in the lodge before the lifts start spinning. We are all part of the problem and it doesn't do any good to point fingers at tourists or the growing mountain west. You're a transplant, I'm a transplant, as are most of the people I ski with. We are no more entitled to the Wasatch than a tourist (although I am extremely annoyed with shitty drivers and people who can't traverse). At the end of the day, it's pretty fucking sweet so many people are getting outside and enjoying the mountains instead of watching tv or playing video games.
ericabut many of its customers (and you) stay on peoples couches, and don't give any money back to the local businesses who are getting their asses kicked by holiday crowds and shitty tips. Sorry not sorry for standing up for the town that I've chosen to build a life in.
dylholeUntil they make public transportation more convenient than driving, I don't see anything changing. Seems like they could turn that quarry or whatever it is off Wasatch into a giant parking lot with buses running every 10 minutes. Turn Big and Little into Zion NP, with no private cars allowed - just lots and lots of buses. That being said, I've accepted the current shit show that's unfolding and choose to deal with it instead of skiing Pow Mow/Snowbasin or moving. The traffic just forces me to get up a little earlier than I used to, but I get to have another cup of coffee in the lodge before the lifts start spinning. We are all part of the problem and it doesn't do any good to point fingers at tourists or the growing mountain west. You're a transplant, I'm a transplant, as are most of the people I ski with. We are no more entitled to the Wasatch than a tourist (although I am extremely annoyed with shitty drivers and people who can't traverse). At the end of the day, it's pretty fucking sweet so many people are getting outside and enjoying the mountains instead of watching tv or playing video games.
mystery3I can't tell if serious or not?
Ikon Pass has nothing to do with South Lake. Traffic around Squaw and Alpine has sucked probably since the 1960 Olympics.
I'm fully braced and am embracing the $619 renewal for my pass, less than four days to break-even. I can't afford not to buy it.
eheathFirst of all I agree that on hill was fine (other than the honeycomb return taking 20-30 minutes at first) the snow was great today, but that's not really my issue with the situation, parking and traffic are the issues. I understand these issues are tough to solve in the short term, but it affects everyone's overall experience.
Today was the worst I've ever seen BCC, I think it has LCC beat now as the worse canyon. Nobody probably thought the Ikon would have this much effect year 1 but it's certainly showing. Yeah it's a good year, lots of skiers, overall yes that is a great thing for skiing. Hopefully the traffic and parking issues are dealt with by next season, but it seems like we're looking at a major overhaul of the transportation systems of the cottonwoods.
a_burgerDoing 3 days at snowbird and 2 days at Brighton in 2 weeks for spring break. Tuesday-Saturday. How early should we be heading up the canyons to get a parking spot? This thread makes it sound like a shitshow if your a little late
RRhighriderLetter from Big Sky GM
http://www.explorebigsky.com/guest-editorial-be-kind-to-ikon-pass-holders
Dear Big Sky Community,
When I first came to Big Sky almost 40 years ago I was embraced by the community. Thanks Pirate, Betsy, Kelly, Curly, John, Tim, Sally, Mike, Dan, Jodean, Doug, Chris, Walter and countless others for making me feel so welcome back then. That same welcome has awaited most everyone coming since, whether we arrived five years ago or 50. Big Sky is a welcoming place.
Recently, local social media channels are revealing a rash of really negative postings, shunning new visitors and treating new arrivals differently than we were treated ourselves. Sadly, I just read this message from a recent guest:
“… We’re from the UK and have been skiing in North America every year for the past 15 years. We’ve had epic passes, mountain collective, and this year we bought the Ikon base pass. We usually make 2 three week ski trips each season and love the freedom to travel and explore that the multi-centre passes give us. We’ve never encountered any negative reaction to us as holders of these sort of passes- until this year! At Big Sky they were selling bumper stickers saying ‘IKON [not] wait for you to leave’ …”
That note made me really sad because this guest did not experience the warm welcoming culture that our broad community has historically offered. A few people have been targeting these new guests with mean messages phrased around a concept that Big Sky is becoming too busy and newcomers are to blame.
Most everyone knows that Big Sky Resort recently joined two national season ski pass programs, Ikon and Mountain Collective. This move is enhancing the Big Sky brand and showcasing our community to new guests who pour spending into our community. These programs are just another piece in the long-term strategy to move Big Sky into a league of America’s best resorts, right where we belong. Our community is growing as our guests discover and fall in love with Big Sky, just like each of us have.
It’s busier now than it used to be. Is it too busy? The facts say Big Sky is one of the least crowded ski destinations offering more acres per skier than any major resort. In three years, we’ve constructed four modern lifts adding quality and increasing uphill capacity by 1,600 skiers per hour. We’ve made no secret that more on-mountain upgrades are planned.
Many of us know it can be hard to make it in a small resort town. Individuals can struggle. Small businesses can struggle. Big businesses can struggle. Not too long ago, many businesses here, small and large, were going broke and residents were moving away because we did not have enough guests to support the town. The good news is that today Big Sky is thriving. Striking the right balance between prosperity and broke can be complicated. I’ll tell you from personal experience, it’s a lot more fun to be managing success than downsizing.
My life here, our lives here, are made possible by visitors. Big Sky’s culture is friendly and welcoming. We were all new at some point; these guests are our newest visitors.
So here we are: We want a thriving economy without falling into that old ski town trap of not wanting others to come after we arrived. We want more and faster lifts but don’t like anyone else skiing our favorite line. The conundrum, of course, is that our community is stronger with many guests and the services they help us afford. I’m not just talking about ski lifts either. Banks, schools, grocery stores, a hospital and a theater make Big Sky more livable and fun.
I don’t enjoy traffic or lift lines either. I get it. Still, my personal experience is that Big Sky is a more livable place today than it was 40, or 20 or 10 years ago, and that’s because so many people have found our good town and our good people, and their visits have helped us afford these improvements.
I’m committed to working hard to help Big Sky grow better, and I know countless others that are too. I’m also committed to keeping this a fun place, with loads of fun people, who do fun stuff, and I know a boatload of you feel the same way. We’re a friendly and welcoming bunch. Please keep sharing that, continue paying it forward, just like that group of pals did with me 40 years ago.
a_burgerDoing 3 days at snowbird and 2 days at Brighton in 2 weeks for spring break. Tuesday-Saturday. How early should we be heading up the canyons to get a parking spot? This thread makes it sound like a shitshow if your a little late
a_burgerDoing 3 days at snowbird and 2 days at Brighton in 2 weeks for spring break. Tuesday-Saturday. How early should we be heading up the canyons to get a parking spot? This thread makes it sound like a shitshow if your a little late
DeebieSkeebiesAs a michigander who has been in utah barely 12 years, I dont have much room to talk about people making the trek here cuz my family had the same idea, and its a pretty natural thing for areas like Utah to blow up like many have already stated. Forget the skiing, we also have world-class recreation in all four seasons so thats bound to attract bikers, climbers, hikers, hunters, fisherman, etc. Change is inevitable.
Resort towns being madhouses are completely different issues to address honestly. That deals with living cost and wage situations forcing employees/locals to live elsewhere and like someone else said here, crowds are the norm in ski towns December - April. But not that anyone is right or wrong, i just dont get complaining about crowds and being a local when youre not really even from the areas. Like again not being a dick, but people are coming here for a reason and for people like us to act all territorial and get mad at folks for doing the same things for the same reasons we are is just silly.
Idk we're all just getting spun out over crowds. Pack some beers and weed to calm you down or just focus on skiing. The west is finally getting hammered again so we should just be happy about that
roddy116uhg for real, the ikon totally wrecked big sky, i cant find any place to park past like 10 am, and all my pow spots are getting destroyed. Rip lone tree. i know its not as bad as other spots, but for real the place has gotten like two three times more crowded on the weekends.
Monsieur_PatateIs it based on some actual evidence or just this one guy's post and you chatting 2 IKON pass holders in the line? You are sort of implying that the IKON pass only brings problems to Jackson and the local community is not profiting from that extra traffic because they don't spend money there, which I find hard to believe.
Reading the answers in this thread it sounds like people are implying that if the IKON pass didn't exist, IKON pass holders wouldn't ski at all. This is a huge leap. It's not like people who never skied before are hearing of the IKON pass and all of a sudden rushing to the mountains to snake your lines. My bet would be that the vast majority of IKON pass holders are people who previously had a season pass somewhere, so these days they are skiing at JHMR, they're not skiing where they were previously skiing. My guess is that those days are mostly transferred from one resort to another and not simply additions to the overall.
ericaInteresting article from Outside Online. Really good read and I recommend it to you whether or not you support the mega-passes.
"Big Sky, Montana, was recently added to the Ikon Pass network, and already locals are feeling the housing squeeze. “All the affordable long-term rentals we had before this year are now off the market and seem to be on VRBO,” said a longtime local and resort employee, who requested anonymity for fear of losing their job. “It’s priced out all the people that support this town. I know of resort employees living in tents in the forest. People here are really pissed off.” One could blame global market forces and nationwide shortages for housing crunches (and they would not be totally wrong), but massive pass systems bringing large swarms of people to small mountain towns certainly don’t help."
This rental price/VRBO argument is interesting, and something we've seen in Jackson Hole as driving up rent prices/ causing a housing shortage. It will be interesting to see the impacts of the increase in IKON and winter traffic, and if some properties that are VRBO summer/ winter rentals become year-round VRBO.
ericaMy evidence comes from Travel & Tourism Board meetings that I have attended, with representatives from local hotels, JHMR, JH Central Reservations, the Airport, etc. While the Town of Jackson has seen an increase in revenue, that increase is at a higher rate vs. the increase in traffic.
IKON pass holders are skiing here for 4-7 days, where Mtn collective pass holders + day ticket purchasers skied here 2-3 if that makes sense. Essentially, they're staying here longer.
**This post was edited on Mar 14th 2019 at 12:58:08pm
Monsieur_PatateThe ones getting stiffed are the ski bums and average workers, who are seeing an increase in pass cost, housing costs, road traffic, and still getting paid the same, hence their purchasing power going down.
I can understand the frustration, and I think it sucks that the wealth is not being spread around.
ericaInteresting article from Outside Online. Really good read and I recommend it to you whether or not you support the mega-passes.
Mary Kate BuckleyVirtually every major resort in North America is participating in either the Ikon or Epic pass. The majority of Americans who are taking a destination ski trip this year purchased one or both passes.
While our owners, the Kemmerer family, are committed to retaining independent ownership, Jackson Hole Mountain Resort recognized that we might not be able to survive as a stand-alone destination resort. In October 2017 the resort signed an agreement committing Jackson Hole Mountain Resort to multiyear participation in the Ikon Pass that commenced this 2018-19 season.
Several reasons the resort selected Ikon over Epic include (1) Ikon’s projection that it would sell a limited number of passes (versus Epic’s 1 million passes) and (2) Ikon’s recognition that all resorts are unique, allowing member resorts to maintain their independence. If Jackson Hole had chosen not to participate in one of those passes we risked not being considered, and skier visits might have dropped to levels at which we could not sustain our operations.
