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So I my friend and I got into a discussion as to rather or not the risk are greatly over hyped. We both agreed that they were over hyped but he seems to think it is much more a over hyped. Now obviously no tobacco products are safe . Just wondering what NS opinion is. Now I have dipped about 7 times in my life simply because peerpreasure and my friend dips every day. Also how long do you think it takes before you are actually at risk of cancer?
Its tough. Many of my close friends smoke lots of cigs. I fully support their right to do so and don't blame them, the act of smoking is fun as shit and the buzz feels good. But its been a few years of watching them smoke, "quit", and start again, having given up on trying to quit entirely. I used to make fun of them for smoking, and we'd all laugh about it. But the reality is they'll probably be lifelong smokers at this point, and it's kinda sad knowing that all these cigs are starting to add up.
At least they're not vaping though. Fucking Los Angeles douchebags...
^i hate to agree with Hugo but the fiberglass thing is a myth as far as I can tell. I wouldn't be surprised if the tobacco companies encouraged that sort of BS to distract from the real dangers of tobacco. Chew doesn't need fiberglass to be quickly absorbed and the natural properties of tobacco can easily give a person the same sensation of actually putting fiberglass in the mouth. Chewing tobacco is so efficient that people can easily absorb more nicotine through a dip than they do from a cigarette. Nicotine is a pesticide and that is enough reason not to put it in your mouth.
.Hugo.Look it up buddy and let me know what ya find. Think youll be surprised
You're right, I am surprised and still confused. Ive been told since i was 14 years old there was fiberglass in dip, did they change that in the past 10 years or something?
eheathYou're right, I am surprised and still confused. Ive been told since i was 14 years old there was fiberglass in dip, did they change that in the past 10 years or something?
I guess the shit just stings like it has glass in it so kids decided to start an urban rumor. Or..... maybe it is a conspiracy and big tobacco planted the rumor to distract from the real dangers of chew.
OregonDeadI guess the shit just stings like it has glass in it so kids decided to start an urban rumor. Or..... maybe it is a conspiracy and big tobacco planted the rumor to distract from the real dangers of chew.
I mean it's a pretty negative thing... I don't see how it's any better than any other negative side to chew.
eheathI mean it's a pretty negative thing... I don't see how it's any better than any other negative side to chew.
A few fiberglass cuts sounds pretty crappy but it's probably no big deal compared to the actual damage people have suffered from cancer. Just looked at google images and I can't keep it open long enough to embed an image.
A part of me can't help imagine tobacco execs hearing about the fiberglass rumor and thinking "this is great kids will think about this a bit realize it is false and then start questioning whether or not chew really causes gum disease or cancer".
theabortionatorI don't care if my kids smoke but if they choose tobasco I will be disappoint.
Seriously, that shit ruins food.
Try telling my friend that kid drank a whole fu*king bottle the last day his shit was red. Seriously tho that stuff is nasty. He literly soaks his fries in it.
shin-bang95% of chicks think chewing is the grossest thing ever. why would any chick wanna kiss a dude thats had basically poison in his mouth and body.
Think about it this way. We think monster /red bull is cool. Girls how ever most likely dont think it is unless they like skiing. Lots of stuff we think is cool is uncool to them.
I dunno, my thing has always been that there are ways to get a better buzz that are less likely to kill you or give you something that almost kills you.
To answer your question, op, regardless of whether or not the dangers of using tobacco products are over-stated or not, is the buzz it gives you really worth the risk? Maybe I just feel this way because 3 of my 4 grandparents had cancer and two of them died from it and I've had other close friends die from cancer, but I don't think it takes knowing all that much about cancer to know that that shit really sucks. I guess, in my opinion, cancer just isn't really something you should be increasing your chances of getting, if you can help it, and, if nothing else, there seems to be pretty solid evidence that using tobacco exponentially increases your chances of getting cancer, whether you dip or smoke.
eheathYou're right, I am surprised and still confused. Ive been told since i was 14 years old there was fiberglass in dip, did they change that in the past 10 years or something?
I wouldnt be surprised if it was a myth actually started by anti-tobacco groups. Just saying "the shits bad for you" isnt as impactful as the thought of it slicing your lips ope.
eheathYou're right, I am surprised and still confused. Ive been told since i was 14 years old there was fiberglass in dip, did they change that in the past 10 years or something?
No theres never been fiberglass. I thought the same thing in high school and im pretty sure basically everyone did. Idk if it was kids starting rumors or classic high school health class. But it makes sense, you ever get fiberglass slivers? That would be absolutely unbearable in your gums.
nocturnalReally, why don't you tell me what the correct answer is then?
I thought this was complete bullshit but I started looking on the Environmental Protection Agency's website http://www.epa.gov/radiation/sources/tobacco.html and it's actually really interesting. Basically Tobacco used in cigarettes contain lead-210 and polonium-210, both radioactive material. Just smoking a few times will do practically nothing but for chain smokers and people suffering from addiction, the concentration can build up to huge amounts. This is thought to be one of the leading causes of cancer for cigarette smokers.
nocturnalReally, why don't you tell me what the correct answer is then?
The most radioactive place on earth is the core of a nuclear reactor. Protip - if the effects of the radiation are slow to show, then its not that radioactive.
Source: I'm a nuclear engineering graduate student.
mirozThe most radioactive place on earth is the core of a nuclear reactor. Protip - if the effects of the radiation are slow to show, then its not that radioactive.
Source: I'm a nuclear engineering graduate student.
The inside of a smoker's lung receives a hundred and sixty thousand microceavers(sp?) Per year.
And I guess obviously inside of a nuclear reactor I don't know what the levels are, but putting that one aside.
mirozThe most radioactive place on earth is the core of a nuclear reactor. Protip - if the effects of the radiation are slow to show, then its not that radioactive.
Source: I'm a nuclear engineering graduate student.
I f***** up my wording people who are exposed to the strongest dose of radiation.
nocturnalThe inside of a smoker's lung receives a hundred and sixty thousand microceavers(sp?) Per year.
And I guess obviously inside of a nuclear reactor I don't know what the levels are, but putting that one aside.
nocturnalI f***** up my wording people who are exposed to the strongest dose of radiation.
Microsieverts.
I found the website you quoted that from. That's the activity from the radiation, but when weighted it using an approximate "dose equivalent" scalar which is necessary to account for the fact that not all radiation energy contribute to negative health effects, depending on the tissue and the type of radiation. With that in mind, the average smoker gets about 13 mSv/yr from smoking, compared to about 2.8 mSv/yr from background for the average person. Not too bad. For reference, there are places on earth with much higher background radiation than 13 mSv/yr. There's a place in Iran called Ramsar where the background radiation (from radioactive isotopes in the ground, like radon) is as high as 130 mSv/yr.
That said, you're right that polonium is present in tobacco smoke and that shit is not good for you. That's the isotope that was used to poison Alexander Litvinenko.
onenerdykidSmoking has to be the biggest marketing victory in the history of the world. Tobacco companies have 100% convinced people that doing this is cool, despite it having no actual benefit for you and tons of negative/harmful side effects. There is no reason to do it other than they told you it was cool and you believed it.
Smokers tell me that they enjoy smoking, which I think they do. But it's only because smoking has created that feeling inside them for it. Smoking is not a naturally desirable thing to do. It's one of the ultimate proofs that people are capable of believing whatever they're told.
I mean, yeah - now a days we know better and as a civilized society we should stop with the smoking, but to say that "there is no reason to do it other than they told you it was cool" is a little short sighted to the bigger picture. For a very, very long time in human history across different cultures (completely separated from each other) all around the planet people smoked. Besides the negatives for health there are some seriously real social and cultural reasons as to why one would have the want to smoke tobacco. It is very much a drug, and like all drugs - it does things chemically that make a person feel good (or bad, every drug can go both ways).
As much as I'd like to think that one day smoking will be illegal, I have some serious doubts. Making a drug illegal doesn't make it go away, and the history and social acceptance of tobacco runs too deep to make it simply just go away. You can say it's all manipulation from marketing and that it's not a naturally desirable thing to do is ignoring what it is that makes us human.
I'm not saying that people SHOULD smoke - I'm saying that there are many, many reasons on just as many different levels of consciousness that make people WANT to smoke.
I found the website you quoted that from. That's the activity from the radiation, but when weighted it using an approximate "dose equivalent" scalar which is necessary to account for the fact that not all radiation energy contribute to negative health effects, depending on the tissue and the type of radiation. With that in mind, the average smoker gets about 13 mSv/yr from smoking, compared to about 2.8 mSv/yr from background for the average person. Not too bad. For reference, there are places on earth with much higher background radiation than 13 mSv/yr. There's a place in Iran called Ramsar where the background radiation (from radioactive isotopes in the ground, like radon) is as high as 130 mSv/yr.
That said, you're right that polonium is present in tobacco smoke and that shit is not good for you. That's the isotope that was used to poison Alexander Litvinenko.
Laurent.Early 20th century French intellectuals/philosphers/writers smoked Gauloises or Gitanese by the truck load.
We all know there is nothing more fashionable then them.
That said, different times, don't smoke kids, not cool, NOT COOL.
Heu t'es français?
theabortionatorI'm allergic to cig smoke now so I try to avoid being around people when they smoke. Chill upwind etc.
Well you're lucky af. I wish I was.
Started smoking very irregularly and casualy a few years back, then during one year I smoked a lot. Managed to reduce it a lot, down to not even a pack a week, then only on weekends. I'm set to stop definitely at the beginning of the next academic year, quitting now with all the free time and party going on is just too damn hard. Part of me wants to say that i'm fine, that i don't regret starting, and that I haven't smoked that much at all, and that I'm not addicted since I can go a month without, without too much trouble now. But in reality, yes, I wish I never started. Did it give me style? not really. Would have I been fine without it in terms of socialising? yes. Did I impress girls? probably as much as I would of done saying I was strong enough never to touch a cigarette. Was it good? Yes. it was damn good, as soon as I was hooked. Otherwise it tasted disgusting, smelled disgusting. So I should have listened, when people told me that as soon as you smoke one, you'll smoke more. It's not bs. Don't start. You have no idea how not worth it it is. And if you're a smoker, and have ever pressured a non smoker into smoking, I hope you die in a car crash one day. Don't fucking do it.
Charlie*Everybody dies of something. Might as well go out like a fucking man.
Fun Fact: Marboro was original marketed as a "women's specific" cigarette brand and it was only until about 30 years later in the 1950s that it became the "manly" cigarette brand.
DrailI mean, yeah - now a days we know better and as a civilized society we should stop with the smoking, but to say that "there is no reason to do it other than they told you it was cool" is a little short sighted to the bigger picture. For a very, very long time in human history across different cultures (completely separated from each other) all around the planet people smoked. Besides the negatives for health there are some seriously real social and cultural reasons as to why one would have the want to smoke tobacco. It is very much a drug, and like all drugs - it does things chemically that make a person feel good (or bad, every drug can go both ways).
As much as I'd like to think that one day smoking will be illegal, I have some serious doubts. Making a drug illegal doesn't make it go away, and the history and social acceptance of tobacco runs too deep to make it simply just go away. You can say it's all manipulation from marketing and that it's not a naturally desirable thing to do is ignoring what it is that makes us human.
I'm not saying that people SHOULD smoke - I'm saying that there are many, many reasons on just as many different levels of consciousness that make people WANT to smoke.
Not exactly. Tobacco only existed in the Americas and used by Native Americans, and it wasn't until the first European explorers/conquistadors brought it back to Europe that it became the widespread drug that it is today. So it only has a widespread history of about 500 years, so I would hardly say that it has been used throughout human history across different cultures completely separated from one another. That's more than a stretch.
I do agree with you that smoking pulls at our emotional and societal heart strings... but only because modern tobacco industry has made it this way. They have told us that cool/smart/sophisticated people do it and it will make you that way too. They use different renditions of what is "cool" but they all make it seem that way to get people to do it. And once they do it, then smoking fills those societal/cultural/emotional roles. But it's not because it does it on its own, it's because people believe it does it and look to others for positive reinforcement. Not to mention the actual physical dependencies it creates which is why people continue to do it, even when they know later on that it is not cool/exciting/smart/sophisticated etc.
The vast vast majority of people today are not smoking to relive the historical Native American traditions. They are doing it because someone has convinced them it was the thing they needed to feel better, be cooler, fit in, or fill any other societal/cultural norm they feel they are needing.
theabortionatorThis has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Fuck off.
I was just saying that because if I was allergic to it i would never have started...which I've been regretting ever since I started trying to stop. Of course it must annoying af when you're around smokers and I didn't mean it that way, but after failing to stop completely a few times, if I could become allergic to it, trust me I would without even thinking.
McLSI was just saying that because if I was allergic to it i would never have started...which I've been regretting ever since I started trying to stop. Of course it must annoying af when you're around smokers and I didn't mean it that way, but after failing to stop completely a few times, if I could become allergic to it, trust me I would without even thinking.
Just fucking quit then. You posted about being able to go a month with out it. At that point it's psychological honestly. Just don't smoke a cig. That's literally all you have to do is not smoke. Don't buy cigs, don't smoke them. I understand you're going to want to smoke them. Do something else like smoke weed instead. Eat bunch of food, have snacks and gum on hand. IF you're at a month you're there, all you gotta do is just keep adding weeks, months nd soon it'll be a year, repeat. Some people get to the point where they never want to smoke a cig again, they have 0 desire. Others still have some passing desire here and there. But it's 100% doable.
People smoke EVERYWHERE. Now imagine a little bit of cig smoke gives you a horrible headache and ruins whatever you were doing. If you were doing something fun, now it's not as fun, if you were working now it's with a gnarly headache. You could be going to do something fun but now your brain hurts and you end up going to bed instead.
That's so much fun though because I won't be tempted to smoke cigs. I could never have avoided cigs so thank you jesus for sending this my way.
Idk. I get that you weren't trying to be a dick, and I'm not trying to either, but what you said doesn't really make sense.
If there were places where nobody smoked it would be cool. I wish there were smoke free area in venues, even if the venue is already smoke free. A "Don't fucking smoke here" zone.
I really hoped it would be something that would go away as my brain healed but it didn't and my brain healed like shit anyway. It sounds ridiculous, but small amounts of cigarette smoke can now completely ruin any fun I'm trying to have at a time.
You know when you're trying to do something but you're so over tired you just want to lay down and pass out. Your body almost shutting down on it's own where ever you are. In other times whatever you're doing would interest you but you not enjoying yourself at all because you're so tired and it almost hurts to keep your eyes open?
It's something like that. Not really but kind of. The closest thing I could think of. Just saying it's not fun and I don't have to smoke, or be in a clam bake of 50 marlboro cowboys in a bar for it to fuck with me.
I'm not saying it's all everyone's fault that I'm fucked up, just that it does affect me. Also annoys me when people have the "second hand smoke never hurt anyone" mentality.
onenerdykidFun Fact: Marboro was original marketed as a "women's specific" cigarette brand and it was only until about 30 years later in the 1950s that it became the "manly" cigarette brand.
Not exactly. Tobacco only existed in the Americas and used by Native Americans, and it wasn't until the first European explorers/conquistadors brought it back to Europe that it became the widespread drug that it is today. So it only has a widespread history of about 500 years, so I would hardly say that it has been used throughout human history across different cultures completely separated from one another. That's more than a stretch.
I do agree with you that smoking pulls at our emotional and societal heart strings... but only because modern tobacco industry has made it this way. They have told us that cool/smart/sophisticated people do it and it will make you that way too. They use different renditions of what is "cool" but they all make it seem that way to get people to do it. And once they do it, then smoking fills those societal/cultural/emotional roles. But it's not because it does it on its own, it's because people believe it does it and look to others for positive reinforcement. Not to mention the actual physical dependencies it creates which is why people continue to do it, even when they know later on that it is not cool/exciting/smart/sophisticated etc.
The vast vast majority of people today are not smoking to relive the historical Native American traditions. They are doing it because someone has convinced them it was the thing they needed to feel better, be cooler, fit in, or fill any other societal/cultural norm they feel they are needing.
I was more referring to smoking things in general. Tobacco, weed/hash, opium, etc. all regions of the world, people have been smoking shit And humans also have the habit of over indulging. It wasn't marketing that got the world addicted to tobacco, it was natural human behaviour.
And for the record - I smoke cigarettes, I know they are bad for me, but I do it anyways. I also party hard, pulling multi day parties with numerous substances. I eat shitty food from time to time, I drive fast, and I partake in risky sports/jobs pretty much daily. I'd rather live life instead of worry about death. If I happen to make it to old age - I'll probably start chasing the dragon.
I won't tell teenaged that they should do these things (besides the sports thing), but I'm not gonna lecture anyone on how they should live either. Being a human would suck if we wasted it away with safety. Everyone wearing hi vis, getting fined for eating bad food, etc. too many rules. We are the only species that can truly make decisions on their own, let's not take that away by overdoing health and safety.
Honestly it's pretty pointless. People get into it for social reasons and it just attacks you. I never met my grandpa because of smoking related heart disease and lung cancer. Fuck that shit.
Too bad it doesn't only take time off your life, without all the health risks when you are using your body. Who cares if you die a little sooner living with dementia than to live longer. I wonder if there is sufficient evidence that vaping causes cancer yet.
DrailAnd for the record - I smoke cigarettes, I know they are bad for me, but I do it anyways. I also party hard, pulling multi day parties with numerous substances. I eat shitty food from time to time, I drive fast, and I partake in risky sports/jobs pretty much daily. I'd rather live life instead of worry about death. If I happen to make it to old age - I'll probably start chasing the dragon.
I won't tell teenaged that they should do these things (besides the sports thing), but I'm not gonna lecture anyone on how they should live either. Being a human would suck if we wasted it away with safety. Everyone wearing hi vis, getting fined for eating bad food, etc. too many rules. We are the only species that can truly make decisions on their own, let's not take that away by overdoing health and safety.
I hear ya. I can't really dabble because my brain is much but used to have a good time sometimes.
I would never tell anybody to do things, but I also wouldn't say, omg don't!
Cigs in terms of not starting but other than that whatever. Life is what it is. Make the most of the time we have spinning around on this chunk of rock because the end could be in 70 years, or it could be tomorrow.
You could eat cage free, gluten free, organic, food, drink only water, and then get hit by a truck. I don't think you should deliberately trash your body, but sometimes ya gotta live a bit
theabortionatorJust fucking quit then. You posted about being able to go a month with out it. At that point it's psychological honestly. Just don't smoke a cig. That's literally all you have to do is not smoke. Don't buy cigs, don't smoke them. I understand you're going to want to smoke them. Do something else like smoke weed instead. Eat bunch of food, have snacks and gum on hand. IF you're at a month you're there, all you gotta do is just keep adding weeks, months nd soon it'll be a year, repeat. Some people get to the point where they never want to smoke a cig again, they have 0 desire. Others still have some passing desire here and there. But it's 100% doable.
People smoke EVERYWHERE. Now imagine a little bit of cig smoke gives you a horrible headache and ruins whatever you were doing. If you were doing something fun, now it's not as fun, if you were working now it's with a gnarly headache. You could be going to do something fun but now your brain hurts and you end up going to bed instead.
That's so much fun though because I won't be tempted to smoke cigs. I could never have avoided cigs so thank you jesus for sending this my way.
Seriously just do it already.
First off, I didn't realise your allergy was that bad, sorry that it is. Where do you live though? if in the us, people smoke like 20 times less that in France, in here you literally can't walk 100m in the streets without seeing someone smoke.
Now, nothing personal, but if there's one fucking thing I hate, is when non smokers tell me to fucking quit already, and that it's easy, just psychological...just don't do that, stop it. Coming down from a pack a day for a whole year to a cig a month was super fucking hard, and only possible when I didn't have the opportunity to smoke (exam periods, work experience and other periods where I had little time to myslef or with friends). Call it psychological if you want, because sure it is, but it doesn't just work to say hey, I won't smoke again. Been there tried that...So unless i stop going out, stop drinking, stop seeing anyone who smokes, no I can't just quit tomorrow just because I want to.
DrailIt wasn't marketing that got the world addicted to tobacco, it was natural human behaviour.
I was more specifically targeting smoking tobacco, but you are correct that humans historically have problems with addiction. However, just because we always have done something, it doesn't follow that we should.
DrailAnd for the record - I smoke cigarettes, I know they are bad for me, but I do it anyways. I also party hard, pulling multi day parties with numerous substances. I eat shitty food from time to time, I drive fast, and I partake in risky sports/jobs pretty much daily. I'd rather live life instead of worry about death. If I happen to make it to old age - I'll probably start chasing the dragon.
I won't tell teenaged that they should do these things (besides the sports thing), but I'm not gonna lecture anyone on how they should live either. Being a human would suck if we wasted it away with safety. Everyone wearing hi vis, getting fined for eating bad food, etc. too many rules. We are the only species that can truly make decisions on their own, let's not take that away by overdoing health and safety.
I would argue that there is a not a necessary connection between awesome time and being reckless with one's self. A lack of safety is not a requirement for fun (for example, being truly unsafe in the park is good way to have a bad time). I am not saying that people should go around wearing bubble wrap, but I think it would be a mistake to say that people cannot have an awesome time and at the same time be a good person/do the right thing.
I drink (but I don't do any other recreational drugs), but I would much rather partake in an awesomely fun activity (where I am more of an agent) rather than do drugs (where I am more of a passive recipient). I"m not saying you said that explicitly, just more of a general point I would put out there.
