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tomPietrowskiOk I'll give my insight here which is more from the retail side.
There are certainly a lot of trends which appear and disappear in skiing. Right now it's the bc market but what is important to remember is any trend is really just that, a trend.
I get to go to the buyers meetings for whistler an although I obviously can't tell you exact details I can certainly tell you BC gear is not what will be filling our shops next year. There is for sure a place for it but it's not going to be a shops money making area unless it's a specialized shop.
There was plenty of bc gear last season but our top selling boots were still the hawx, x pro and Lange rx. None of those have a walk mode so why are they the top sellers when walk mode boots are the new thing?
Well in reality it's like Bishop said it's the holiday goers still making up most of out sales here in whistler. Most of them want to ski the resort for a few weeks a year maybe an just want to be comfy and not worry about their gear. So this makes up most of our sales.
Same with skis. We have all these nice big pow skis and light weight setups but it's the 90mm all mnt skis which make our money.
What at the trends are good for is improving gear for everyone. Lightweight touring boots allow brands to understand how to make alpine boots lighter so the technology filters trough eventually.
Park as I see it from a retail stand point is different. Park is being held back by a number of factors and a big one is the staff in shops. Park is still relatively new so the older shop guys never really got into it so there is still somewhat of a misunderstanding surrounding it I think.
At at the buyers meeting not one park product was discussed until it was brought up about me working for NS and having a potential client base that way. It was then deemed that maybe I'd be given a park boot to sell. But this problem comes some what from the riders.
The direct to consumer sales route is great for skis but it does mean less park riders are buying from shops. This in turn leads shops to buy less park gear. It is this problem I want to see changed. If shops are more willing to invest in the gear - and importantly have staff that actually understand the gear - that is half the battle. But the other half is convincing park skiers to spend money in shops again. I think there does need to be a change, but it's going to be hard.
Anyway that is my rumblings. If you have questions I any of that let me know an I'll try to expand.
L_Bthe ski industry sounds so fun to work in.
Spagett+BRING BACK CHUG LIFE
tomPietrowskiCan't tell if that was sarcastic but it is really fun
L_Bno lol. I think its awesome that you get to have those conversations and theyre completely serious.
It sounds a shit ton better than being a pro skier.
L_Bthey have never been that bad. They fuck around, but they don't act like real assholes and fuck with other members, and occasionally are entertaining. Probably why they arent permabanned.
Peter.yeah, byron has it spot on. they really aren't bad, and if they were, they would definitely be banned
tomPietrowskiOk I'll give my insight here which is more from the retail side.
There are certainly a lot of trends which appear and disappear in skiing. Right now it's the bc market but what is important to remember is any trend is really just that, a trend.
I get get to go to the buyers meetings for whistler an although I obviously can't tell you exact details I can certainly tell you bc gear is not what will be filling our shops next year. There is for sure a place for it but it's not going to be a shops money making area unless it's a specialized shop.
There was plenty of bc gear last season but our top selling boots were still the hawx, x pro and Lange rx. Non of those have a walk mode so why are they the top sellers when walk mode boots are the new thing?
well in reality it's like bishop said it's te holiday makers still making up most of out sales here in whistler. Most of them want to ski te resort for a few weeks a year maybe an just want to be comfy and not worry about there gear. So this makes up most of our sales.
Same with skis. We have all these nice big pow skis and light weight setups but it's the 90mm all mnt skis which make out money.
What at the trends are good for is improving gear for everyone. Lightweight touring boots allow brands to understand how to make alpine boots lighter so the technology filters trough eventually.
Park aa I see it from a retail stand point is differnt. Park is being held back by a number of factors and a big one is the staff in shops. Park is still relatively new so the older shop guys never really got into it so there is still somewhat of a misunderstanding surrounding it I think.
At at the buyers meeting not one park product was discussed until it was brought up about me working for ns and having a potential client base that way. It was then deemed that maybe if be given a park boot to sell. But this problem comes some what from the riders.
yhe direct to consumer sales route is great for skis but it does mean less park riders are buyin from shops. This intern leads shops to buy less park gear. it is this problem I want to see changed. If shops are more willing to onvest in the gear and importantly have staff that actually understand the gear that is half the battle. But the other half is convincing park skiers to spend money in shops again. I think there does need to be a change but it's going to be hard.
Anyway that hat is my rumblings. If you have questions I any of that let me know an I'll try to expand.
tomPietrowskiPark as I see it from a retail stand point is different. Park is being held back by a number of factors and a big one is the staff in shops. Park is still relatively new so the older shop guys never really got into it so there is still somewhat of a misunderstanding surrounding it I think.
At at the buyers meeting not one park product was discussed until it was brought up about me working for NS and having a potential client base that way. It was then deemed that maybe I'd be given a park boot to sell. But this problem comes some what from the riders.
The direct to consumer sales route is great for skis but it does mean less park riders are buying from shops. This in turn leads shops to buy less park gear. It is this problem I want to see changed. If shops are more willing to invest in the gear - and importantly have staff that actually understand the gear - that is half the battle. But the other half is convincing park skiers to spend money in shops again. I think there does need to be a change, but it's going to be hard.
Anyway that is my rumblings. If you have questions I any of that let me know an I'll try to expand.
**This post was edited on Jun 24th 2015 at 11:18:20am
Mr.BishopI couldn't agree more that this is a massive problem facing us, and some of the conflict is right in what you posted.
I love going to shops for sure - having a pro fit my boots, make suggestions - its extremely helpful. However if you go into a shop and ask for park skis, most of the older staff will not only have no idea what they're talking about, but probably sit there and judge you for being a park rat - who in their minds is not a real skier.
So where do the skiers who enjoy the park occasionally go? Online. Why bother taking the judgement and ignorance of some dude when you can make a buying decision from online reviews, and then order the products direct from the companies. Admittedly, this has been an area that has seen a lot of growth in our Advertising, where companies realize that our market seeks direct and they're trying to jump on it.
Now on the shop side, some day you should go check out Slopestyle in Breckenridge. It is a pure freeski shop, and the owner Chris Krance is extremely knowledgeable about everything. One night after the bar we were hanging out there and I said "Pretend I want to buy new skis - I want to hear you do it it." and then had basically one of the most knowledgeable sessions of ski selection ever.
I could say "I like to ride the park for sure, but I'm not doing it every day. However, when I ride the mountain, I like to play on it, ride switch, etc. I'm not expecting a full pow ski as well, so this is more of an every day type stick." It was awesome.
Again, for me it really comes back to the fact that we segment ourselves so much. Just because you like to ride the park doesn't immediately make you a park rat who can only ever ski on 167 super soft skis. Most people will want something to handle the mountain, but have a few different characteristics. A 184 El Dante makes a great all mountain ski for someone who skis that way, just like a J Ski would make a perfectly acceptable all mountain ski for a mom or a dad.
Hell, my mom rides on twins as her all mountain rippers and loves them. Even tries to go backwards every now and then.
We really need to stop thinking of park skiers as some sort of Leper colony, and realize as an industry that even people who are 36 like me might take the occasional lap through the park. After all, if you can't ride the park then you technically can't even ride the whole mountain.
tomPietrowskiYeah exactly unfortunatly I do think a lot of shops are holding themselves back by not being more willing to look at other areas of skiing. It's driving those riders away and it may be hard to get them back.
The one thing shops can always do well though is boots. There will not be a time, at least not anytime soon, where you could buy a boot online and fit it yourself. so I do think at least for boots shops will still be te got op. What they do need to do better is get the boots park riders want.
Whistler took on full tilt a couple of years ago and honestly the reason they did not sell was nota lack of demand as much as the staff not getting behind them and were just not trying them on customers.
If love to checkout slopestyle and we have TMC here is whistler whic is an awesome little shop. You should invest in a newschoolers shop and I'll manage it for you
Mr.BishopWe're never opening a shop. Getting to be the #1 place for Freeski-related gear online though... now that is a goal. So we're already on our way. :)
I've always had a crazy theory that someone should start some kind of a shop that is basically extremely insane boot fitting, ski mounting / tuning / tech and just a gigantic showroom of products. Its got super badass wifi so you can check online reviews and hell maybe tablets everywhere with your favorite gear review sites bookmarked. Then, you can either save your info you get there and buy online, or puchase straight through the system and have it shipped either to your home or the shop.
Somehow the establishment gets a rip of of every sale made, and brands stock it as a marketing expense.
Oh wait... maybe that is a good idea?
jblaskiThe biggest thing that's driving me away? The overabundance of people thinking they're some sort of brilliant trolls, and the lack of moderators not immediately getting rid of the complete bullshit that someone is posting for no other reason than to get a negative reaction from people.
Plus, the amount of people who develop this overwhelming eEgo and will talk just endless amounts of shit while hiding behind a keyboard and username. Some of these people I know and have met in real life, and know they would never say that face to face.
There's a point where you're just done dealing with the immature bullshit.
danbrownwhoa i've been on ns 13 years to the day
Mr.BishopYeah this is the core reason we really dialed up moderation. There is a small group of people that tell us over-moderation is what is killing the site yet enormous amounts of people like you that didn't speak up in the past.
We went much further in moderation than any time before, but there are a load of people who still like NSG to be somewhat more free / silly. Definitely open to suggestions of going even harsher in moderation, but need to take all opinions into account and balance.
Turd.FergusonThere is definitely a difference between good hearty trolling and then people like Hamfacegirl. I couldn't see what harsher moderation would be like because I think that the most recent period of moderating along with an influx of assholes really hurt NSG.
I always agree that there should be mods just to keep general bullshit at bay, but also should just have a more loose approach because this an internet skiing forum, not some serious chickenshit arena
Turd.FergusonThere is definitely a difference between good hearty trolling and then people like Hamfacegirl. I couldn't see what harsher moderation would be like because I think that the most recent period of moderating along with an influx of assholes really hurt NSG.
I always agree that there should be mods just to keep general bullshit at bay, but also should just have a more loose approach because this an internet skiing forum, not some serious chickenshit arena
Mr.BishopWe're never opening a shop. Getting to be the #1 place for Freeski-related gear online though... now that is a goal. So we're already on our way. :)
I've always had a crazy theory that someone should start some kind of a shop that is basically extremely insane boot fitting, ski mounting / tuning / tech and just a gigantic showroom of products. Its got super badass wifi so you can check online reviews and hell maybe tablets everywhere with your favorite gear review sites bookmarked. Then, you can either save your info you get there and buy online, or puchase straight through the system and have it shipped either to your home or the shop.
Somehow the establishment gets a rip of of every sale made, and brands stock it as a marketing expense.
Oh wait... maybe that is a good idea?
L_Bno lol. I think its awesome that you get to have those conversations and theyre completely serious.
It sounds a shit ton better than being a pro skier.
Mr.BishopYeah this is the core reason we really dialed up moderation. There is a small group of people that tell us over-moderation is what is killing the site yet enormous amounts of people like you that didn't speak up in the past.
We went much further in moderation than any time before, but there are a load of people who still like NSG to be somewhat more free / silly. Definitely open to suggestions of going even harsher in moderation, but need to take all opinions into account and balance.
SkierFromOhioThe most people ive seen online in the last few days is 99. It may have been more when I was offline. It seems like no one is posting any new content or any content for that matter.
SourSteezledamn, just went to look back at a thread and it had been deleted. NS is getting soooo soft. No wonder the forums aren't so active, some of the best threads on here get deleted right when they start. weak.
DlCKI give this site 5 more years.
DlCKevery forum is dead. All the "crews" that supported this site are gone. The ad at the top is asking me if i want to know who my zodiac match is.
yall are strugglin
Mr.BishopIts no secret that the forums aren't as popular as they once were - as is the case of every classic forum on the internet. Mainstream social media really ate that lunch, as well as the rise of mobile.
What crews are you referring to?
The content portion of the site is hammering like it never has ever before, and its only growing. The future of NS is in the content.
DlCKSo like edits and pictures?
Mr.BishopNews, Videos, Pictures, Reviews. That part of the site has been growing enormously as more and more people got turned off by the small groups of trolls that just caused shit in the forums.
To be honest, we should have cracked down hard way, way, way sooner.
**This post was edited on Jul 14th 2015 at 5:22:17pm
dodgeI used to think that associating with an Internet community was a bit lame, but after being here a little bit I can safely say you've sucked me in and changed my mindset completely.
I like to think of NS as a skiing community instead, with the Internet as a medium for us to stay connected (somewhat).
Honestly I can't say whether it's decaying, but I sure hope it doesn't.
Hurry up and get the store running
.MASSHOLE.Now I know NS is seemingly primarily skiers, do you guys ever think you will try to cater to other extreme sports that skiers tend to do i.e. MTBing, base-jumping, surfing etc.?
If not, do you guys think you would ever try to increase the snowboarding demographic in terms of content?
CaptainObvious.I don't think all the trolololologoochlickers understand that they're letting NSG curl up and die. It has no monetary value whatsoever except to let the fucksticks circle-jerk while the real value of this site expands. I've noticed a huge uptick in videos, news, reviews, and relevant content and I love it. I spend more time on the homepage looking for new shit I haven't seen or read than I used to spend in the forums.
And I'm glad for it.
fujaromeI think social media started off with specified forums about what the common interest is. Now it's all merged into one big melting pot. Give it more time, and I wouldn't be surprised if it went back to specialized smaller communities.
Serious credit to NS though, I can't think of any other website I've been a part of for so long without losing interest. I may post less, but I definitely still browse around.
Crazy for me personally to think that 10 years ago I was probably doing exactly what I'm doing now.... Browsing ns.
Mr.BishopI actually also kind of believe we'll eventually see a resurgence of specialized communities. For sure we won't see mass social media as a whole collapse, but looking at the current reddit situation does make me wonder if the niche social community doesn't still have a place. Its so hard to please everyone in one spot when some users want to specifically talk about one topic that might be disagreeable to others. We've had our own challenges on that topic within NSG where some see it as a free-for-all for trolls, and when they extend into the skiing parts of the site it really ruins the experience for those who just want to chat about skiing. The idea behind having NSG is so that skiers can shoot the shit with other skiers, not just to be a complete and utter fuckshow for entertainment. Again balance, but we'll see how the next few years play out.
Thanks though for the props. Really means a lot, as whoever has been at the helm for the last 16 years - we've all put our mind, body and soul into this place.
Mr.BishopI actually also kind of believe we'll eventually see a resurgence of specialized communities. For sure we won't see mass social media as a whole collapse, but looking at the current reddit situation does make me wonder if the niche social community doesn't still have a place. Its so hard to please everyone in one spot when some users want to specifically talk about one topic that might be disagreeable to others. We've had our own challenges on that topic within NSG where some see it as a free-for-all for trolls, and when they extend into the skiing parts of the site it really ruins the experience for those who just want to chat about skiing. The idea behind having NSG is so that skiers can shoot the shit with other skiers, not just to be a complete and utter fuckshow for entertainment. Again balance, but we'll see how the next few years play out.
Thanks though for the props. Really means a lot, as whoever has been at the helm for the last 16 years - we've all put our mind, body and soul into this place.
redherringbishop why u keep trying to defend that NS isn't dying? its just the truth
.MASSHOLE.I think the Reddit situation is a great example of what happens when a community grows too large and the management/investor interests begin to shift from catering to the users to catering to the money. On top of this is goes to show how stability of an online community's leadership is integral to its success.
I think that is what will keep NS alive, the ability of the leadership to foresee the shifts, be it demographically, content-related, or medium, while simultaneously keeping the community stable and providing transparency.
Mr.BishopThe forums are not close to what they used to be, I'm not denying that at all. As a whole though we're still growing quite nicely. As mentioned a few times, the content community of the site is not only picking up the slack but growing from where the forums ever could.
You're spot on. We've even had our own challenges with this through some leadership and internal changes. We've even gone through mods and community members getting extremely angry at us for a lack of communication and clarity.
That is one of the reasons that when Jason left I stepped so firmly back into the General Manager role. I wanted to ensure that we had a clear, concise and communicated vision of where we were going.
We always listen to the community as well. I think being in touch with the people on here - and these days even the people who only check our social channels - is critical.
That is one of the reasons I just spent two weeks at summer camps. The younger generation isn't as vocal and active on the site anymore. Some kids even just see me as the guy running the NS snapchat -but its important to understand your community regardless of where they interact with our media brand.
