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Abortion law kills woman

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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
a woman in Ireland was miscarrying due to sepsis. She was hospitalized but was not allowed to have an abortion to save her life because of the anti-abortion law in Ireland. She died.

Good job pro-lifers.
Nov 14 2012 6:08PM
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BrewskiJr
Posts: 5738 - Karma: 1,478
So when a baby is pushed out a vag it just magically gets life? Fucktards
Nov 14 2012 7:54PM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
We need more information. Is it dead? How did it die? You posted a picture.
Nov 14 2012 7:54PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
infanticide is defined as after birth.
Nov 14 2012 7:55PM
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Bill.Nye
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 2,109
So when two previously living cells join and form a different cell, removing that from a woman's body magically becomes murder?

This issue is not black and white, there's a 9 month grey area, and the right answer isn't at either end.
Nov 14 2012 7:56PM
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Jacuse
Posts: 1792 - Karma: 1,549
what.the.fuck.man.

that's not an abortion (one that would be performed in the US), that's a dead baby
Nov 14 2012 7:59PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147

You don't need to explain it more clearly. I can understand what you are saying, however, you're saying that an abortion becomes infanticide once "it" becomes a human life. The internet says that late term abortions are still abortions and that infanticide is defined as after birth by more than 1 day. That's all.

Your arguing definitions regardless-- OP did not say that he considered late-term or partial birth abortions as a separate definable action from abortion and my response was to his claim.

He could have said "abortions, as I define them, have not taken a human life"-- and explained that he didn't include partial-birth or late-term abortions, but he didn't. My comment was more to point something out to him that he could have possibly not even considered. If he wanted to respond and say he defined them as something different, that would be a different story.

Nov 14 2012 8:00PM
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LiquorLanch
Posts: 1909 - Karma: 1,046
Dear Trex internet man,

I love you you cynical bastard

Nov 14 2012 8:03PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
wow he looks evil.
Nov 14 2012 8:09PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
becomes human at conception. it's almost always wrong to take a human life. yeah, that was tough.
Nov 14 2012 8:11PM
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Bill.Nye
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 2,109
Just like you said, "almost" always. In other words, not always. You should watch the video I posted on the last page.
Nov 14 2012 8:18PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
Click for larger image
Nov 14 2012 8:19PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
Hahaha nope. A miscarriage is also known as a "spontaneous abortion." Nice try, Honey Boo Boo.
Nov 14 2012 8:24PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
I know perfectly well the basics of biology. I have studied biology at university for 4 years. I know perfectly well the cells are alive, that they are human cells, and that they possess human life. But I also know perfectly well that they are NOT a living organism. they are NOT a living human being. they are still just a blob of tissues.

the whole debate here is not whether they are living cells, but whether it is in itself a living organism.

living cells =/= organism.

you seem to have skipped this part in every single one of my posts.
Nov 14 2012 8:26PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
Don't mind El Barto. He's a fucking idiot.
Nov 14 2012 8:27PM
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Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652
Thats a retarded statement to say. Hitting your head does indeed kill some brain cells but it doesn't stop the function and the system (your brain) as a whole. Abortion results in the system and growth of the fetus to cease resulting in the death of every cell, not just the few that die as a result from a bump to da noggin.

Damn now i sound like a super pro-lifer. I'm actually in the middle on this. I think that people who get pregnant by being a dumbasses should live with their choice. They made the choice to get pregnant so they should deal with the responsibility of the child instead of just resulting to abortion to get the burden off of their shoulders. If infact you do get more than 1 abortion, you shouldn't be allowed to have kids imo. But thats never going to happen.

I'm Pro-Choice/Life depending on the situation...
Nov 14 2012 8:29PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
sorry. honestly im happy to be proven wrong, i think people get the point i was making.

but i am happy to totally opt out of this thread, because unlike some of the ignorant fools i'll admit i do not know what i do not know.
Nov 14 2012 8:30PM
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Mr.Sloth
Posts: 5091 - Karma: 13,469
AR6Rider killin it as usual
Nov 14 2012 8:32PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147

Why is this even a debate.

"life begins at conception" may be the reasoning behind why a pro-lifer chooses their stance, but "life does not begin at conception" is not an argument FOR abortion-- so why even have the conversation?

Typically, a pro-choicers argument looks something like this:

-curb overpopulation

-for the sake of the life of the child

-for the sake of the life of the parents

-to curb unwanted teen pregnancy

-to prevent government from telling us what we can/cannot do with our bodies

-for the sake of the life of the mother

-incest/rape

All valid points for taking a pro-choice stance. So why must pro-choicers also be hell-bent on arguing against life beginning at conception. Is it because it takes all of the bad out of abortion? Makes it not a big deal? Makes abortion a win-win situation?  There have got to be some pro-choicers out there who also believe that abortion is eliminating human life-- otherwise it is just too fucking convenient.

Nov 14 2012 8:35PM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
ever since google came into play on the internet, every one is a self-proclaimed expert in every matter.
Nov 14 2012 8:36PM
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PurpleReign
Posts: 148 - Karma: 90
The main argument I see running through this thread is the alive/human debate. There is no debate that a zygote is alive. No pro-choicer is ever arguing this fact, it is simple science and irrefutable. What IS up for debate is at what point "alive" becomes "human." Think of it as a square and rectangle type argument. A square is always a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a square. Likewise, a human is always alive, but being alive does not imply human.

Philosophers have argued this point for centuries and many of their paradoxes can be applied to the abortion debate. Take the Ship of Theseus or Sorites Paradox for example, each deal with the inherent challenge of picking definitive points on continuous variables. Imagine a heap of sand. You take out one little grain at a time. At what point does the heap cease to become a heap? 100 grains? 10? 2? Think of the reverse for abortion, at what point does a heap of cells become a human?

The bottom line is, abortion is a necessary evil. Nobody likes abortion, there's no argument there. But it is a human rights and social justice issue. That heap of cells cannot decide that it would prefer to continue living, so if it's endangering the mother the option of abortion should certainly be there. From an equality standpoint, the poor are oftentimes unable to receive the care they need, making it far more dangerous to carry a child to term.

Sparknotes: Pro-choice
Nov 14 2012 8:37PM
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Mr.Sloth
Posts: 5091 - Karma: 13,469
ElGato spreading truth.
Nov 14 2012 8:40PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
Yet there is also no real reason to dislike it. I don't like standing in the cold to fill my car up with gas, but it's not really a big deal. it doesn't last very long and unless something goes seriously wrong I'm outta there in a few minutes with no real harm done to my body.
Nov 14 2012 8:40PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147

This. I'm pro-life for myself, but I'm pro-choice for others. I personally could not have one, but I can understand and see why some do.  However, just because I can understand why someone would have an abortion, does not mean that I just become blind to the fact that it is unfortunate and sad, and the destruction of human life. Go ahead and practice your right to choose, but call a spade a spade here, folks.

Let's focus on eliminating unwanted pregnancies, so that no one-- even someone is pro-choice, should have to make such an emotionally tolling and unfortunate decision.

Nov 14 2012 8:42PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
do you have a child?
Nov 14 2012 8:45PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147

no.jpg

Nov 14 2012 8:46PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
no
Nov 14 2012 8:46PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
the reason for arguing it has nothing to do with abortion itself. absolutely nothing. just the purely scientific interest to determine when exactly a fetus is considered a living organism on its own. clearly a zygote is not, that is not even debatable. but when is it actually an organism??

it's a very interesting question to a biologist.


also it does help in defining laws. there should be no debate as to if abortion should be legal or not, it should be entirely about up to what point should it be legal?? after what point do you call it a human being that for moral reasons should not be aborted?

if you argue moral reasons right from fertilization then that's no better than arguing the same moral reasons for birth control and jerking off since the specific genes for that potential individual are inactive and dormant for a little while after fertilization. meaning in terms of an individual human, a young zygote is no more human than a sperm cell.
Nov 14 2012 8:47PM
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Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652
I think that there would have to be some sort of emotional stress for the woman at least. I mean the surgery may be painless but I'm sure that knowing that you had the beginning of a new life ripped out of you and discarded has to have some sort of emotional impact right?

Then again, us guys can only speculate because we don't know what its like (luckily) to have an abortion or to have a baby for that matter. We can only relate it to having a 300lb Tongan kick us in the balls with steel toed boots for 1 hour straight.
Nov 14 2012 8:48PM
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PurpleReign
Posts: 148 - Karma: 90
Although I think your analogy is weak, I completely agree, I should have qualified that. I guess it's the loss of potential involved with abortion that can be seen as regrettable to most, excluding antinatalists. It is not the act itself of the abortion that is regrettable.
Nov 14 2012 8:48PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
Yes. 1 in 77 women commit suicide within one year of having an abortion.
Nov 14 2012 8:51PM
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C-Burg
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 130
abortion should be handled on a case by case basis
Nov 14 2012 8:52PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
I agree with you on that. I think the most upsetting thing would be losing the possibility of having a child, not losing a child itself. I don't mean to sound like I think abortions are great and everyone should try it out, but in the grand scheme of things, having an abortion is NOT the worst thing in the world (my personal opinion, of course), and is generally harmless to the patient.
Nov 14 2012 8:53PM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
Instead of killing the fetuses through abortion, why can't doctors just play a little Lil' Wayne through the women's womb to the point where the baby wants to kill itself?
Nov 14 2012 8:54PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
ok..you got me, it was a christian source (albeit I didn't know that I just remembered reading it)-- but regardless of that statistic--let's throw it out for lack of credible source, I know for a fact that abortion causes emotional distress for some (everyone I've ever talked to about it that has had one). I have no reason to lie about that.
Nov 14 2012 8:58PM
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Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652
1 in 1 fetuses die from abortion...
Nov 14 2012 8:59PM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
source?
Nov 14 2012 9:00PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
I wonder how the mental distress from having an abortion weighs against the mental distress from having an unwanted child? I'm sure you'd grow to love it, but the initial mental distress from giving birth to an unwanted child probably outweighs that of an abortion. just guessing though.
Nov 14 2012 9:00PM
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Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652
Hehe I was expecting that!
Nov 14 2012 9:04PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147

I wasn't comparing and I wouldn't know. My only point is that some women suffer emotional harm from abortions. Here's chilli from TLC...cried everyday for 9 years...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXy36OAp15w

Will you ever grow to love your abortion? I kid I kid. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be able to choose, I'm just saying it isn't like refilling your gas tank on a cold day.

Nov 14 2012 9:05PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
No, but you can certainly learn to forget and move on, knowing you likely made the right choice.
Nov 14 2012 9:06PM
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Barefootin_Fiend
Posts: 7618 - Karma: 4,727
the issue that I have with abortion is the government having the right to say what a woman can or cannot do with their body. that is not for the government to decide. period.

i don't even understand why people would even want to make abortion illegal again in the US. that ship sailed a long time ago. you will never stop it....only push it underground where there are much lower standards and much greater risks. it is an unfortunate "necessary evil".
Nov 14 2012 9:10PM
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Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652
Getting Gas = Sucking money
Abortion = Sucking baby

So therefore

Getting gas is similar to getting an abortion since they both involve some form of sucking.

/caseclosed
Nov 14 2012 9:10PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
Hey-- out of context. I said I was kidding.
Nov 14 2012 9:18PM
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stalefish.
Posts: 464 - Karma: 79
agreed all around.
Nov 14 2012 9:30PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
correlation is not causation..
Nov 14 2012 9:53PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147

oh snap!

But I threw that statistic out regardless. The cat already slapped it down.

Nov 14 2012 9:54PM
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DaffyDaDak
Posts: 864 - Karma: 433
BLACK STEVE
Nov 14 2012 10:08PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
well, it's not for the government to decide up till it's not technically the woman's body any more but a body of its own. some serious research needs to be done on this matter, not that it hasn't already been done.
Nov 15 2012 1:07AM
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Good_Try
Posts: 2 - Karma: 11
.
Nov 15 2012 1:21AM
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