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Abortion law kills woman

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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
a woman in Ireland was miscarrying due to sepsis. She was hospitalized but was not allowed to have an abortion to save her life because of the anti-abortion law in Ireland. She died.

Good job pro-lifers.
Nov 14 2012 6:08PM
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Barefootin_Fiend
Posts: 7618 - Karma: 4,727
as a human being that seems pretty fucked up
Nov 14 2012 7:12PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
so when does it begin?
Nov 14 2012 7:12PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
also, that's a terrible reference. that would never be accepted on any scientific paper.
Nov 14 2012 7:13PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147

shhhh. quiet down.

what about partial birth abortions? Babies that could have lived on their own outside of the womb who were aborted?

I can't believe I'm getting into this....but honestly, your comment that not a single human life has been killed by abortion is pretty ridiculous.

Nov 14 2012 7:13PM
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GEORGEzimmerman
Posts: 1473 - Karma: 439
when the baby can support its life without fully relying on the mother
Nov 14 2012 7:14PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
okay, what about a 50 year old who has no limbs and blind, he becomes dependent on others, should we just shoot him between the eyes to make someones life easier?
Nov 14 2012 7:14PM
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GEORGEzimmerman
Posts: 1473 - Karma: 439
actually it does, wikipedia is not a credible source, actually maybe it is for 14 year olds. any moron is allowed to post on wikipedia dude....get the definition off of a credible source....
Nov 14 2012 7:15PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
actually i take that back, you're right
Nov 14 2012 7:16PM
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GEORGEzimmerman
Posts: 1473 - Karma: 439
alright lets take it totally out of context
Nov 14 2012 7:16PM
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dreadyboy
Posts: 2306 - Karma: 34
Abortion = good
Nov 14 2012 7:16PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11630 - Karma: 24,465
so what, age 2? even then a 2 year old would be fucked without their mom.

didnt cartmans mom try and get like a 40th trimester abortion? i think thats more what your talking about
Nov 14 2012 7:16PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
no one here will look any farther than wikepedia for most anything.
Nov 14 2012 7:17PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
not out of context, exact same thing. why should we kill someone who is dependent on someone, should we let parents kill their 1 year old child because he is crying in the middle of the night? and they cant get their sleep?
Nov 14 2012 7:18PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
that's the whole bloody debate that's been going on for decade upon decade with so far no conclusive answer.

your finger is comprised of living cells. it is NOT however a living organism. it is part of a living organism. a zygote is living cells, but is NOT a living organism. not yet anyways.

Canada's law defines human life to begin at birth. same with many other countries. is this right? I'd say fairly accurate, but not entirely. before birth a baby certainly is an organism on its own. you could take it out and with some help it would still grow into a fully functional human being. more than a couple months before birth? well, no. it's not going live no matter how hard you try. It has not yet turned into a living organism of its own and is still just a blob of organized living cells.
Nov 14 2012 7:18PM
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GEORGEzimmerman
Posts: 1473 - Karma: 439
i was talking about a cluster of cells that relies 100% on its mother for nutrition and has barely begun to take the form of a human life and would not live for mere seconds outside of the mother. once it can live outside the mother then it becomes a different story but as long as it needs to live inside the mom it is completely relying on her
Nov 14 2012 7:19PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
okay what about a premature birth then? should we just kill those babies that are born two months early because they are not as developed as other babies who were born on their due date?
Nov 14 2012 7:20PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
baby, humans, everything= cluster of cells. newborn baby= 100% need booby milk.
Nov 14 2012 7:20PM
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Bill.Nye
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 2,109
My views on abortion are pretty much the same as Noam Chomsky's and Peter Singer's.


Nov 14 2012 7:21PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
i think in abortion arguments people really need to make a few things clear and grasp understandings of these concepts. Otherwise, they're arguing each other without even realizing they aren't arguing about the same idea.

1. abortion and infanticide are different. Abortion is terminating a pregnancy, infanticide is referring to murder a.k.a abortion at a stage where the baby is developed as a human.

2. With that being said, a place in which the baby has developed enough to be considered human needs to be defined--what defines a human life? When you define a human life you can then state when a termination is an abortion or infanticide.

so El Barto is correct in saying you're killing a glob of cells, but you aren't in fact killing a human at that point--unless you decide to argue that a zygote is a human life.



Nov 14 2012 7:24PM
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GEORGEzimmerman
Posts: 1473 - Karma: 439
im not getting into this argument with a kid. im pro choice. heres taylor swift

Click for larger image

Click for larger image
Nov 14 2012 7:24PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11630 - Karma: 24,465
now you get it.

its alive, oozing with human DNA. They are living human cells.

im not going to touch the rest.
Nov 14 2012 7:24PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
I used 2 months as a hypothetical point. Like I said, if a baby is able to be born premature and with assistance develop into a fully functional human being, it was a human organism when it came out. if it was born too early to live outside the mother despite every effort to save it, well maybe it wasn't human yet
Nov 14 2012 7:25PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
who cares, it's newschoolers. yes no one cites wikipedia for a credible source, but lets not deny that for the most part wikipedia is quite accurate.


Nov 14 2012 7:26PM
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SeanTom
Posts: 7936 - Karma: 1,747
dude just mellow out. NSG is bent on arguing over everything, just let it happen. fighting it will only make it harder.
Nov 14 2012 7:26PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
this is why i disagree with that statement. a zygote is not a fucking pokemon they dont suddenly change just because they are that old, they grow into things. like growing pubes, or armpit hair. a zygote just happens to grow its organs and arms.
Nov 14 2012 7:26PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11630 - Karma: 24,465
what if we were marsupials? The underdeveloped fetus was born to the outside but still sorta lived 'inside' the mom.

Should kangaroo abortion be legal? I guess thats what im getting at
Nov 14 2012 7:27PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
it's actually true. you need to understand the difference between abortion and infanticide.

unless you define abortion as the termination of pregnancy at conception, no abortion has ever killed a human being.


Nov 14 2012 7:27PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
soo human life starts right when it is born?
a rebuttle with a picture:
Click for larger image

i guarantee you if we took dna from that baby it would be human DNA no matter what stage it was in.

now, i have to go celebrate my birth ill be back later
Nov 14 2012 7:29PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
so let me clarify, you determine infanticide as the termination at any point during pregnancy when the zygote, fetus etc, possess a valuable future.

in your opinion a human life comes to be valuable from the get-go
Nov 14 2012 7:30PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
living human cells, but not living human life.


if you actually think a zygote is a human life you really really really need to go back to school.
Nov 14 2012 7:30PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
exactly, i also have my own intellectual reasons for that but yes.
Nov 14 2012 7:31PM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
I am pro-choice because I feel that we are doing the unborn baby a favor. They will reunite with God in heaven and live there eternally in peace, skipping over the hell of daily life on Earth.


























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Nov 14 2012 7:32PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
wooooooooow. way to not read anything I said.



also if you took dna from a frozen carcass of a human from 3,000 years ago, it's still human DNA. sure doesn't mean they're alive
Nov 14 2012 7:32PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
oh and to clarify if someone brings up a miscarriage, first off your a retard. secondly the reason i hate abortion is the intention to get rid of something with a potential of human life. a miscarriage is something that happened on accident and it sucks.
Nov 14 2012 7:33PM
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Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,844
This thread is playing out as predicted . Don't you kids have homework or something?
Nov 14 2012 7:33PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
so now you define infanticide as the possession of human dna?

you'd be so much more successful in debating if you could express yourself better.

that does rule out animals haha whatever though

Nov 14 2012 7:34PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
I'm not sure that you understand the difference between abortion and infanticide. I have never heard of partial-birth or late term abortions referred to as infanticide and as far as I could tell by searching the internet, infanticide is the intentional killing of a baby greater than 1 day old. In the first 24 hours after birth is called neonaticide, and prior to or during birth is abortion.  Also, the definition of when life begins is debatable-- as you had originally stated--I'm not sure why you came back and decided to state one side as fact, after-the-fact.
Nov 14 2012 7:34PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
You're saying a fetus isn't alive? I couldn't give two fucks if people want to get an abortion, not my problem, but sir that insinuation you just made is retarded.
Nov 14 2012 7:35PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,266
exactly as predicted. no matter what way you look at it, it's still pretty unacceptable that the woman had to die as a result of highly questionable laws.
Nov 14 2012 7:35PM
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Puns
Posts: 2052 - Karma: 429
maybe I'll be in the mood later but for now I will say that if the pro-life movement is serious about protecting fertalized eggs as a human life then they need to make birth control free, and pass out condoms like drinking straws. The pro-life movement is about controlling womens bodies and their sex lives.
Nov 14 2012 7:36PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11630 - Karma: 24,465
the word life gets thrown around to much. a fertilized egg is human life. It is a living cell jammed full of human DNA that will soon begin to replicate. it is as much human life as you or i. saying something is human is merely referencing the base pair sequencing in its DNA. you have the same DNA in nearly every one of your cells that you had the second your dads sperm penetrated your moms egg. the only cells that differ are your gametes

you are most certainly killing a developing human. that cluster of cells will only develop into one species. it cant decide to be a walnut tree instead. its human life. this is not something that can be argued for it is fact

i think everyone gets so blinded by this topic. you can argue if it right or wrong till the cows come home. you cannot argue the mechanism of it
Nov 14 2012 7:37PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
Hahaha I love watching this Roddy kid show how truly retarded he is when abortion threads pop up every so often. So fucking entertaining.
Nov 14 2012 7:38PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
abortion is always intentional

baby implies human life regardless if inside the womb. do you believe that a fetus becomes human at birth? Clearly not considering that you think human lives have been taken by abortion. So therefor, intentional abortion to a human life = infanticide.

infanticide is subjective, that's the reason people are pro-life or not pro-life.

so depending on when you decide a glob of cells becomes human defines when abortion becomes infanticide. once again, since you believe that abortions have taken human lives suggests that you believe at a certain point in pregnancy that a fetus becomes human (i agree, i do too). Leading to my conclusion that aborting past that point is actually infanticide. the intentional murder of a baby...

but his opinion is an abortion has never taken a life. this is true based on the lawfully defined point at which abortion becomes infanticide.

you aren't wrong, you aren't right.

im too tired to argue and explain this any more clearly




Nov 14 2012 7:45PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11630 - Karma: 24,465
and you still do not understand the fundamentals of biology. cells are alive. human cells are alive. human cells posses human life.

again, this is not debatable. this is fact. i can almost promise you that none of my biology text books will have "human life" in the glossary. Being a reasonable person i can connect the dots however. I can see that cells are alive. I can see that a zygote is a cell that is alive and full of human DNA. this tells me that its a human cell. if that doesnt make it human life i dont know what does.

yea, i should go back to school. youre the rube who said a zygote isnt alive. derp
Nov 14 2012 7:47PM
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Bill.Nye
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 2,109
No it's not. Even the unfertilized egg and the sperm cells are alive. Every cell n your body is alive (except of course the dead ones).

Where it becomes "human" is debatable, and where it becomes something that is wrong to kill is debatable.
Nov 14 2012 7:48PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
i think you understand biology, but life is a synonym that should be understood from not only a biological perspective but a bioethical perspective as well.

you're ignorant to think biology can define the ethical rules of abortion.
Nov 14 2012 7:49PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11630 - Karma: 24,465
*not have
Nov 14 2012 7:50PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
sorry, i meant to say human, not life.

yes life is the possession of dna
Nov 14 2012 7:50PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11630 - Karma: 24,465
dude.....What the fuck is wrong with you?



jesus
Nov 14 2012 7:51PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11630 - Karma: 24,465
I never once said shit about abortion besides the fact that it kills cells.

im not touching the legality of it. thats for liberals and bible thumpers to hash out.


Nov 14 2012 7:54PM
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