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July, 2025

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For the sake of the Aurora threads, take your gun control discussion here.

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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,392
I'm tired of the threads about the terrible tragedy in CO turning into soapboxes for discussions on gun control. Please take your conversations here.

13 years ago
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wasatch_rat
Posts: 1774 - Karma: 3,012
i never said otherwise, nor did anyone else as far as i have read. the columbine kids also got their guns legally. my question to you is, do you really think if they couldn't get the guns legally they wouldn't have found illegal weapons anyway? thats just forced ignorance.
13 years ago
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 225
what about hand guns?


there are more murders committed with hand guns then a tactical rifle.



a few reasons why not to out law tactical rifles:

target shooting, one of the most fun weapons to shoot.
militia purposes, I have good knowledge of how to break down, clean, repair, and re assemble an m16 and an m4. This will help me greatly in military service.
hunting, the new ar15's are some of the best varmit guns on the market. multiple rounds and a gun that is reliable, simple, easy to be cleaned and dismantled is a win win.
13 years ago
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TimRiley
Posts: 1873 - Karma: 1,327
Many people are. This guy bought guns for the purpose to kill. All guns were bought within a few months. I don't think restricted gun laws will change a killer's mentallity
13 years ago
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wasatch_rat
Posts: 1774 - Karma: 3,012
define an assault weapon for me. because the way some people define it, a 4 round semi-auto hunting rifle is an assault weapon.
13 years ago
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 900
That's generalizing, assault weapons are made for killing many people very rapidly.


Ryan66:

Targer shooting: You couldn't shoot any other gun? Not being able to pump lead into a piece of paper at as high a rate as you used to is a small price to pay for making it harder for civilians to kill efficiently.

Militia purposes: Not sure what point you are making here. Are you a member of a militia?

Hunting: Aside from boars and the like, what kind of pussy needs an assault rifle to hunt? Just get a nice bolt-action rifle or something. As for boars and the like, again, small price to pay.

13 years ago
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Joebin
Posts: 1664 - Karma: 867
Murder being illegal and morally wrong didnt stop this man from doing what he did, Im sure making guns illegal (or tightening up control) wouldnt have either. I know its been said a million times but making guns illegal will just take them from law abiding citizens and put them in the hands of criminals. People who commit crimes with weapons generally dont walk into a gun store and go through a background check and get all their personal info and SSN written down, because then everything can be traced back to you (obviously). Their buying unregistered fire arms that will be on the black market regardless of any change in gun control. I am all for reasonable gun control, but when something like this happens everyone throws up their arms and screams that guns should be illegal. I think that something that is overlooked is the ammunition being used because while a huge majority of surplus guns from previous wars are still available (a percentage of which are unregistered and used criminally), the ammunition is not. Whereas the guns will be around for a long time to come, ammo is something that will constantly need to be replenished, criminals included. If people were required to go through a quick search in a police database for violent crimes and such, most people prone to committing crimes such as this would be unable to purchase the ammunition required to commit them. You can obviously make the same argument on this that people would just buy ammunition illegally, but as I said earlier, it needs to be replenished. The same gun can be used in multiple crimes, the same bullets cannot. It will make it harder eventually for criminals to get their hands on ammo, while being an extremely minor inconvenience to legitimate connoisseurs.
13 years ago
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 225
target: they are enjoyable to shot, you must not have shot one.

Militia: I used that word since that is what it says in the constitution, using the guns prepares civilians for the military. granted we dont have militias any more but if we were to have a draft again having knowledge of those weapons would help.


hunting: any varmit/predator it is a good gun to use, not the uzi that twa posted but something like an m4/m16/m15, are great for boars, prairie dog, coyote, wolf, wood chuck, etc. I would never use an assault rifle to hunt deer/elk/ etc. for that I use my muzzle loader. bolt actions are for pussies.
13 years ago
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284
I know, right? That is what the UN is proposing.
13 years ago
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wasatch_rat
Posts: 1774 - Karma: 3,012
you totally ignored me. there are a lot of different definitions for assault weapons. every shotgun i have ever used for hunting (3 rounds, semi auto) can be considered an assault weapon because it is semi automatic. give me a concrete definition for an assault weapon and i would probably agree that they should be tightly controlled, but that is way too lose of a term
13 years ago
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Joebin
Posts: 1664 - Karma: 867
Assault weapons were outlawed for ten years (between 1994 and 2004 I believe) besides those that were made before the law came into effect. The ten year period was written into the bill that outlawed the production and sale of them and at the end of those then years a study was to be done to asses whether or not the ban reduced assault weapon related crimes. It did not (or it was extremely minimal) and the ban was lifted.
13 years ago
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 900
As far as the "militia" reasoning goes, the military teaches recruits how to shoot from the ground up.

As for both the other reasons, like I said, it's a small price to pay.


To mr. f, sorry, it's hard to respond to 5 posts in one. As for the assault weapons definition, I tend to think of assault weapons as military weapons available to civilians, and/or semi-automatic/automatic rifles of any kind. An uzi I would not consider under this definition.

To joe: Source please?


Good discussion guys
13 years ago
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
not gonna get into the "does gun control raise or lower gun related crimes?" thing. but just wanna bring something else up.

its fucking obvious as balls that GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. we didnt such a huge problem before, sure people have been killing people with and without guns forever. but in the last 20 years or so we have had WAY more insane people going on shooting sprees and random senseless killings than we ever have. i dont know why it is, but something with our society, more specifically american society, has been feeding it. Its hard to compare us to european countries when we have this obvious problem within our society that makes it such a problem. America is fucking awesome and i love this place more than anywhere else in the world, but you gotta admit we have some shitty areas, and some big ass problems with gangs, mexican immigrant violence and gangs, etc..
so long as gang violence stays between gangs, im cool with it, let them kill eachother. but what is it that has happened in our modern era that makes random, seemingly normal people go insane and shoot up schools and shit? gun control has gotten more strict and we have a bigger problem with gun violence in these times than ever. shit my dad used to take his rifle into junior high and highschooland put it in his locker. its not a problem of guns being more accessable and being more exposed to them, its something to do with people, and its stupid not to focus on the where the problem starts, which is with people, not guns.
13 years ago
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Tree60
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 4,961
To quote Eddie Izzard: "Guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps... Just standing there pointing your finger saying "bang!" isn't going to kill to many people is it?"

Getting rid of all guns in the united states would not be feasible. But illegal guns have to come from somewhere, and it's not easy to just go into your garage and make one. You have to buy it from someone, and that person had to by it from someone, either legally or illegally. At some point, someone had to buy it, legally, from the manufacturers. So yes, it would be impossible to get rid of every gun in america to keep people like this away from guns, but if you did crack down on gun control, you could get rid of alot of the guns that are bought legally just to flip for a profit illegally.
13 years ago
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skifoo
Posts: 1396 - Karma: 45
Honestly guy^ is right, but I'm left. Hahaha

It's the shooting games, shooting in movies, shooting in general what makes people think it's accepted. If your life revolves around these things, no wonder you get a gun and kill people. It's the media.

No guns at all - law wouldn't help instantly, but in a long term goal it would help. It's not real easy to bring weapons from iraq to america, i believe. If you want guns to stay allowed, of course they will be used wrong. Someone compared drugs to guns. Lets say, how many of you would build your own guns if they were illegal?
13 years ago
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Nadia.
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 1,104
I'm sorry... but your argument is flawed.

Guns were made for killing.

Skis were made for skiing. Nice try though.
13 years ago
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,392
Well of course - it's because I was directly referring to the statement I quoted:

" it's sad to see so many of you value the fun of owning a gun over the lives of your fellow citizens..."

I was pointing out the absurdity of this statement, as it infers that gun ownership is directly related to the "fellow citizens" being alive, or not being killed.

13 years ago
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Nadia.
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 1,104
You also said "Guns are not inherently deadly,"

I find this equally as absurd. Guns were created as a method of killing more effectively, whether it was fellow a fellow or animal for sustenance.

Point is, guns exist because they were created as a method of killing more targets faster and with more lethality. A by-product of their existence is that certain people in this world feel entitled to own them for pleasure.

Are gun laws in the states too lax? Absolutely.

Firearms laws in Colorado
  • Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No
  • Registration of rifles and shotguns? No
  • Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No
  • Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No
  • Permit to purchase handgun? No
  • Registration of handguns? No
  • Licensing of owners of handguns? No
  • Permit to carry handguns? Yes for concealed.
As it stands, any psychopath in Colorado can go arm himself to the teeth it seems.

In Canada you have to take a multi-day course, pass a physical and written test, submit an application with 3 references who will be contacted to question your character then wait 8 weeks processing just to get your possession and acquisitions license or PAL. Hand guns are ONLY allowed at firing ranges and you have to file for a permit from your local police for permission for that day only to move the weapon from your house.

We also do NOT allow or sell clips with over 20 rounds, shotguns have a max of 4 shells. Automatic weapons are prohibited. I could be wrong on exact specs, its been years since I took my tests and it is 4am after all.

Are we perfect up here? No. Is there still gun violence in Canada? Yes.

Do laws like this make it harder for psychopaths to attain fully automatic weapons with 100+ round clips in one day on a whim? Yes. I know that if someone really wants to get their hands on a gun, they most likely will via a black market, but why not make it harder for them to do so?

Suicide is the number one gun related death in Canada. Violent gun related deaths are extremely low. (14% of gun related deaths)

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/res-rec/deaths_deces-eng.htm

The reasoning of solving gun violence by arming everyone with guns is absurd. The last thing that tragedy in Aurora needed was people in the audience shooting blindly in the tear gas injuring or killing other bystanders, then confusing law enforcement as to who and where the actual initial shooting was coming from.

I'm not saying tougher gun laws would have necessarily prevented this tragedy, because that is something we will never know.

I am saying that guns are lethal by design and nature and that in the US they are FAR too easy to acquire and this leads to people owning them that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a firearm.
13 years ago
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 225
so you think tht someone should have to resister my guns? FUCK THAT. why the hell should the government know how many guns I have. and in a way they already fucking are since all guns have serial numbers when purchased legally. That number is recorded and reported while going through the background check, so a gun can be traced back to the original owner unless someone grinds the serial number off.


what do you mean as a permit to buy a gun? you have to go through a background check?
carrying rifle and shot guns? yeah that is illegal, a CCW is only considered a pistol.


when you get your CCW you are registering your gun.



you also need a "permit" to open carry.



get your facts right.
13 years ago
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11499 - Karma: 342
Pjs and sledneck have big posters of Obama up in there bedrooms that they kiss every night before bed guys it's ok.
13 years ago
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
Oh look more kneejerk reactions to a tragedy that most of the country will have forgotten about in a month. Yaaaay America.
13 years ago
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Nadia.
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 1,104
Those are the facts I was able to find for Colorado (like I stated) from my national news source.

I sincerely doubt they would have falsified or not done their proper research on the matter.

Do you live in Colorado?

A permit, like a license? Like if you had read my post you would know what I was talking about, the equivalent being the PAL in Canada.
13 years ago
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Nadia.
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 1,104
Why would a national level news company make it up?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/07/20/denver-shooting-movie-premiere.html
13 years ago
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GayWolf420
Posts: 38283 - Karma: 131,971
Guns will never go away. How hard is that for people to understand?
13 years ago
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Nadia.
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 1,104
Why not make it harder for people to acquire them? It's working in Canada.

200 gun related homicides with a population of ~35million.

USA has 10x our population with approximately 9500 gun related homicides last year.

We have a much more intense, rigorous and thorough screening/application/licensing program despite owning more guns per capita than the USA, they don't get into the hands of as many people who shouldn't have them, therefore have a gun related homicide rate of 1/5 per capita of the states.

I agree, guns will never be eliminated, but your laws need to be stricter about who can buy what and the screening process/timeframe involved.
13 years ago
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skifoo
Posts: 1396 - Karma: 45
this. It's like giving longer punishment for raping. It will never go away, but the rape amount will decrease
13 years ago
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
you are in Canada, not the US. our high gun related homicide rate is not due to guns being easily accessible. you guys dont have huge gang problems in almost every major city, you dont have an immigrant problem and immigrant gangs and violent drug trafficking like we do. and for some reason you dont have the random psychopaths that we do.
how many of those people went to a gun store and bought their guns legally? now how many of those gang members, drug traffickers, criminals etc.. would say "oh shoot i gotta go through a multi week application to get my gun, ill just give up" id say about 0. they get their guns illegally, and there is absolutely no way that making it harder for the average citizen to acquire a gun would prevent the cause of the vast majority of gun crimes in the us, that cause being gang, immigrant and drug violence.

all that making it harder is going to do is drive up the # of illegally firearms and drive down the # of legally acquired firearms, especially when it comes to the already low amount of legally acquired firearms used for crimes, which will make tracing the gun to its owner even harder.

and really, i love defending gun ownership and everything, but regardless of if our relaxed gun control increases or decreases deaths, it wouldnt change my mind if it caused more deaths. I would still believe guns, assult rifles, pistols, etc.. should be legal and easily accessible to the average citizen, especially when it gives the average citizen a chance to defend himself from criminals. we have about 35,000 car related deaths each year, smoking causes 40,000 deaths per year, if you really want to protect us from ourselves, start there.
13 years ago
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284

because these "companies" are bought and paid for and it is their job to make shit up for $.......

cbc used to tell us that the bilderbeg group was just a fantasy and people were imagining things...

now they acknowledge it is real but they tell the public it is good for us hahhhhhhhhhhh

13 years ago
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.ZT.
Posts: 5679 - Karma: 2,791
Yes. Also although it is still not as restricted as in Canada other states have more restricted gun laws than that of Colorado, for example my home of Massachusetts. I strongly agree with your posts.
13 years ago
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 900
Doubtful. But I have always wondered that. What is it about being a fairly well to do, intelligent, white, male that makes them so disposed to acts like the Aurora shooting, or Columbine, etc. Do they just not have the same coping methods to deal with adversity as other social groups have, and so turn on the world?
13 years ago
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 225
lol do you know how news works?


and yes I live in Colorado, purchased guns here. I am pretty well versed on their gun laws. even if guns were illegal it wouldnt stop this form happening.
13 years ago
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284

anyone who does not know how news works has never seen this footage before........

the best part is the alarm and the helmet/gas mask.......people love watching other people act

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWY14eyMFg

13 years ago
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ryano
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 1,535
i didnt read any of the arguments..

but gun control is the dumbest thing ever. criminals are going to obtain guns regardless if its legal or not. so why take away the right or make it very very difficult for law abiding citizens to own firearms and use them responsibly and for defense.

doesnt make any sense. its stupid.
13 years ago
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11499 - Karma: 342
ya sledneck I dont know if you are trolling or half retarded...

1. the media known for making shit up, the bigger the media company the more shit they probably make up. +1 for you being an idiot.

2. Canada may have less gun related crimes... half of your country for half of the year lives in -40 degree weather. No one wants to go outside in that shit, not even to shoot people!! +1

3. You dont have as many EXTREMELY large EXTREMELY populated cities(where most gun crimes happen.) +3

4. I dont fee like going on, im sure everyone else has made you feel stupid enough already. +/-
13 years ago
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,369
Canada gets to border the US, not a bad neighbor. The US gets to border Mexico, that piece of shit lazy neighbor with the eyesore of a house who always borrows your shit, doesnt return it and then puts garbage in you can because theirs is full.
13 years ago
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11499 - Karma: 342
good temps/weather all year round for shootouts in mexico.
13 years ago
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
I have been thinking the same thing, what made this dangerous wasn't the gun, but instead the armor.  If the guy had been armed with his ar knock off, without body armor, and the place would not have been posted that concealed carry was not allowed, then all it would have taken is one person in the theater to have been carrying to end the shooting before it even started
13 years ago
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
because the government cannot be everywhere at once.  Do you want to live in a super restrictive police state?  just look at the florida video posted early, lets say one of those families in that cafe called the cops, there was a 2 minute response time.  In that time, the robbers take everyones cell phones, put a couple holes in someones kid, and leave the scene before the police even get there.  Instead, a law abiding man decided to protect everyone in the cafe, charged the robbers taking them off guard, and eliminated the threat possibly saving an innocent life. 
13 years ago
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
When you get your CCW you are not registering your gun, you are registering yourself as a gun owner.  They never ask you what your guns are or how many you have, they only train you on the use of handguns safely and responsibly
13 years ago
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 225
It varies by state. I know for a fact in PA you had to register a gun. Presumably the one you took the course with.
13 years ago
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11499 - Karma: 342
........

i went into the local court house, signed some papers, got my picture taken and walked out with my CCW. They didnt ask me anything about my gun and I definitely didnt have to take any course.

do you even know what you are talking about?
13 years ago
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 225
wow then perhaps it has changed, tht is REALLY REALLY lax. I am actually really surprised, are you sure you did that? it wasnt an open carry? When I lived there it was under a democratic Governor so perhaps it changed. Corbett actually has some brains. In my opinion the government shouldnt know what guns I have and if I am carrying them.
13 years ago
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11499 - Karma: 342
this was 6 years ago.
13 years ago
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 225
well shit. I apologize that is what I was told when someone went to get a CCW.
13 years ago
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207
Posts: 8969 - Karma: 3,852
this. If just one person was CCing that day, this fucker Holmes' head would have been blown off. As soon as I turn 18, I'll get a controlled carry permit.
13 years ago
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 900
Man you are one of the most consistently idiotic posters on NS. The prospect of you with a firearm terrifies me.
13 years ago
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straightlining
Posts: 239 - Karma: 140
From the perspective of a non-american (australian), the idea of just being able to get a gun from a store seems absurd. For you, when is one massacre going to be one too many?

If anyone here has heard of the Port Arthur Massacre in Australia, you will probably know of the profound effect it had on gun politics in Australia.

The Port Arthur massacre in 1996 transformed gun control legislation in Australia. Thirty five people were killed and 21 wounded when a man with a history of violent and erratic behaviour beginning in early childhood opened fire on shop owners and tourists with two military style semi-automatic rifles. Six weeks after the Dunblane massacre in Scotland, this mass killing at the notorious former convict prison at Port Arthur horrified the Australian public and had powerful political consequences.

The Port Arthur perpetrator said he bought his firearms from a gun dealer without holding the required firearms licence.

Prime Minister John Howard, then newly elected, immediately took the gun law proposals developed from the report of the 1988 National Committee on Violenc and forced the states to adopt them under a National Firearms Agreement. This was necessary because the Australian Constitution does not give the Commonwealth power to enact gun laws. The proposals included a ban on all semi-automatic rifles and all semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns, and a tightly restrictive system of licensing and ownership controls.

and basically, hasn't been a major massacre since, and most firearm homicides are related to organised crime. There is the occasional shooting, most likely due to the fact guns aren't easy to obtain.


Also, you can't pretend that your firearm homicide rate is the highest among developed nations is a coincidence.

13 years ago
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JAHrig
Posts: 738 - Karma: 2,649
As a gun owner , hunter, and occasional recreational shooter, I personally would not mind more restricted gun laws. I would have no problem with a more strict screening process and laws that make it harder or impossible to legally purchase assault weapons and maybe even handguns. All I am really concerned about is my rifle and shotgun that I use to hunt, and obtain food to feed my family. And even if Im going out to shoot for fun, a shotgun or hunting rifle is more then enough. I must say I do own a handgun or two, but would not be greatly distressed if I had to give it up, or go through a more thorough process to get them. And I know that this would not eliminate gun violence in the US, but I really dont think it would hurt.

Thats my opinion on the matter, but the reason why I quoted you, PhaedeD, is because you stand out to me as the biggest asshole and bigot in this thread. I really dont see the need to insult someone over stating their opinion in a conversation. I would have respected your opinion had you presented it in a civil manner with no personal attacks to this persons opinion and country. You give all of the gun owning , good Americans a bad name. That is all
13 years ago
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wasatch_rat
Posts: 1774 - Karma: 3,012
read the thread. there are enormous numbers of illegal weapons circulating through the us. so much so that some cities have events where they trade guns for cash, absolutely no questions asked, in order to get them off the street. guns are easy to obtain, legally or not. the biggest area that gun control is needed is to curb the number being pumped into the black market. this is a tough problem, especially with so many criminals already armed to the teeth, both here and right under our southern border.

i do believe in higher regulation, because we do need to curb the number of guns entering the black market, but here, if you make guns next to impossible to get then only the criminals have them. plus all semi automatic and pump action shotguns means literally every skeet shooting and duck hunting gun. i don't think a pump action shotgun that fits 3 rounds is inherently evil or designed for killing mass numbers of humans.

we don't ignore the fact that there are tons of weapons in the us, in fact it is that very factor that drives people to purchase protection. gun control is needed, but people have to be very careful about how its conducted.
13 years ago
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wasatch_rat
Posts: 1774 - Karma: 3,012
do you think it is easier to get a black market weapon in the US or australia? do you think the people who propagate these massacres don't premeditate them enough to get an illegal firearm if legal ones are too hard to get?

i'm not being snarky, i would honestly like to hear your response.
13 years ago
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Tree60
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 4,961
Fuck that, theres already one person in there shooting randomly, another person won't help. they were in a dark movie theater filled with tear gas. I doubt even a trained military operative would have been much help in that situation. If there was another person in there shooting, the casualty count would have been higher no matter what.
13 years ago
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