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Christians 1 Atheists 0

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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
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A simple, yet powerful analogy.

Checkmate.
Jan 24 2012 10:26PM
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Evilchris
Posts: 2090 - Karma: 43
there is nothing worse than evangelical atheists
Jan 25 2012 11:57PM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
I give up. Im not trolling anyone. There's a lot of incorrect information in this thread that needs to be addressed.

The Christian notion of Hell is laughably fictitious and, like so many other aspects of their religion, is totally plagiarized.

The 'fire and brimstone' version of Hell was invented by the Church just prior to the Renaissance to goad believers into sticking with them. The version came about when Dante Alleghieri penned his epic "the Divine Comedy", a work that was commisioned by the clergy, who then took bits and pieces they liked and crafted an eternal land of torture for so-called sinners. The name 'Hell' has two possible origins. It was either stolen outright from the Norse religion's neutral human underworld 'Hel', or it was named after a place (Hel) just outside of Jerusalem that was historically used as a garbage dump.

'Satan' was crafted around the same time. In addition to the Church longing for widespread fear and obedience among the people, they wanted to emphasize the Latin and Italian languages and stamp out use of the 'unclean' Arabic language in their cities. Basically, totally drunk on power for centuries, they fabricated a 'superdemon' called 'Satan', which is a Romanization of the Arabic word 'Sheitan', which means undesirable. His physical form was a not-so-creative melding of Pre-Christian Hebrew gods, primarily Ba'al and Baphomet; the former gives him his red skin and muscular form, the latter his horns and goat legs. Satan's attributes and character were awarded by the same people. Also, the word 'demon' itself is meaningless. It is a misrepresented translation of Daemon, which means 'avatar' or 'form of'.

FYI.

If anyone wants to know why the popular myths of Jesus are basically false too, ill continue.
Jan 26 2012 12:00AM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
Go fuck yourself. It's great you have your own beliefs, but telling someone their beliefs are flawed is one of the douchiest thing one person can do to another in my opinion. Keep it to yourself dickhole.


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Jan 26 2012 12:12AM
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FBGM
Posts: 8184 - Karma: 2,675
.

They're fucking feti. Your argument is incredibly retarded and beyond invalid. Fuck off.
Jan 26 2012 12:16AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
That is one of the most retarded fucking things ive read today, im not even going to engage you with a proper response. In both of your replies you haven't countered any of my points, instead just insulting me. Are you sure you're not religious?
Jan 26 2012 12:22AM
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MACAQUE
Posts: 2811 - Karma: 696
lol
Jan 26 2012 12:22AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
insulted*
Jan 26 2012 12:23AM
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Dr.NS
Posts: 640 - Karma: 19
Just wanted to say to all of you- No one seems to be able to agree on either side of this argument; in fact, most christians can't even seem to be able to agree about their own background of belief. In the end, this really doesn't matter all that much. Remember that each time you snap your fingers someone is taking the life of another person. Efforts towards proving each other wrong would be better spent actually helping your fellow man. It really doesn't matter which book you prefer, what matters most is that we survive and prosper as a race.

I don't know about any of you, but to me right now, I read this thread and all I can think is Christians: 0 Atheists: 0

Jan 26 2012 12:28AM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
To an extent, yes I am religious. I believe in god and thats about as far as my religious beliefs go (I am jewish if you want to put a label on me). I do not attend synogauge on almost all holidays, nor practice any other sort of custom (i.e. kosher). I believe that evolution is a valid theory. I also well acknowledge that there are plagurized stories in the old testament (the one that jews read), such as Noah's ark; a very identical story can be found in gilgamesh. Which involved a deity that floods the entire world, and a guy on an ark.

The supernatural cannot be proven nor disproven. I don't need to argue, what I choose to believe in is my decision. I believe in god, I do not go around telling everyone else. You do not; unlike myself, you chose to go around boasting your beliefs.


Keep posting proof that my god isn't real; I will take it with a grain of salt but you seem to get a kick out of it and I don't want to ruin your fun.
Jan 26 2012 12:47AM
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Moosen
Posts: 4285 - Karma: 2,585
I like you more now. You are cool. I wish i still lived at hood so we could chill haha
Jan 26 2012 12:49AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
Im not going to label you anything. What you do with your life is up to you, whether i think it's stupid or not. Im not boasting my beliefs either. In fact, when have i ever said anything about my own personal beliefs in this thread? The only serious thing i've said was the above post about hell etc. You labelled me a douche, among other things, for merely stating some actual facts (which this thread has been lacking). I show knowledge, you insult me for it, and im the bad guy? If no one is allowed to point out flaws in peoples arguments, which is basically what belief without evidence is, how is the discussion supposed to get anywhere?

And again, when was i ever attempting to disprove god? You're trying to make me out as something im not by putting words in my mouth, all because i brought forth some authentic information that you obviously can't come to terms with. Im having a very hard time understanding why you're getting so upset over me explaining the origins of satan. I guess religious people never did take kindly to valid points.

As for plagiarism, most if not all of the key supernatural beliefs regarding Christianity were stolen outright from older religions, mostly Pagan.

Two examples off the top of my head...

The 'adorned birth' was taken from the allegory of the 'dying sun'. From December 22-25 the sun stops getting lower on the horizon, perceivably, for three days due to the 22.5º tilt of our planet. During this time, three bright stars 'point' to the sun; these stars make up the three kings and the 'star pointing to the Sun(son) bits'. This myth is shared by many other characters from religious mythology originating with Osiris (Ancient Egypt).

Easter is a Pagan fertility celebration for the Vernal Equinox in honor of spring. It's a celebration of new life and vibrant flowers, which is why the motifs of the holiday are pastel colors, baby chicks and rabbits. Here, the originators of Christianity took the 'three day death and resurrection' bit from the allegory of the dying sun and applied it at another significant Pagan holiday to create the 'reasoning' for Easter.

Shall i continue?

inb4 proving things wrong and having an argument are for douchebags
Jan 26 2012 1:25AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
Worded that wrong. Not really examples of key supernatural beliefs, just general examples of plagiarism.
Jan 26 2012 1:38AM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
Yes.

I wasn't asking for an argument. I didn't come in here and post "ALL ATHEISTS ARE DOUCHES". I posted that I think it's absurd that both parties (christians and atheists) feel the need to get everyone to agree with them. You give off a vibe as if you do not respect one's opinions or beliefs about religion and theistic beliefs.

After my first posts, here's your response in which you decide to label me:
"Indecisive idiot who thinks not choosing a side is thinking for himself, which also gives him the false belief that he can ride on in to religious arguments on his high horse and speak down to people for putting faith in something"

If I came in asking for an argument, you should back up your beliefs. I did not in anyway try to disprove your beliefs, but yet you made an entire thread mocking and trying to disprove other's beliefs.

I'm done arguing "he said this-she said that". I just hope you stop feeling the need to run around telling everyone they're wrong. don't forget that supernatural subjects cannot be proven nor disproven. You can say the bible is flawed, but there is no way to say heaven or god exists; nor can you say what happens in the afterlife spiritually (physically, our body decomposes over time, matter is recycled, etc.)

Jan 26 2012 1:59AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9411 - Karma: 10,798
Oh but you don't understand. If you don't believe what Nobar believes you're wrong and he must prove that
Jan 26 2012 2:00AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
It's actually not, because we are talking about the lines of reason, deduction, cognition and intellectual capacity.

There are surely smart people who believe in God, being religious, but it's usually because they can't help it as they were brought up and annoited into faith. Even wisdom and intellect can't always protect you from the sickness of faith, as intellect is not directly comparable to mental or psychological forms of weaknesses, such as self-doubt, hate, fear etc. Often causing even level-headed people to seek out for something they can grasp on a straw, and simply "accept" God/Jesus/Allah/Noodly Appendix into their life and they feel fulfilled and like better versions of themselves already.

Is there something wrong about trying to become a better person or living under sophisticated morals? Absolutely not, but there is something very wrong to do it under the guise of religious faith.
Jan 26 2012 2:48AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9411 - Karma: 10,798
I know what you're trying to say but if we take what I have quoted and look at it again you are saying that trying to be a good person by turning to religion or using religion to make you a better person is a very bad thing to do
Jan 26 2012 2:54AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
One more time for the next page. Nobarking, please answer my question. Or any other christian, for that matter.
Jan 26 2012 3:15AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9411 - Karma: 10,798
He's never gonna answer you. He's just a big tease
Jan 26 2012 3:17AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Yet people continue to do so.
Jan 26 2012 3:18AM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
scientists dont prove theorems. they come up with a theory and it holds true until disproved.
Jan 26 2012 3:20AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9411 - Karma: 10,798
Ok so i was mistaken. You're straight up saying that religion is awful and people who follow religion are bad
Jan 26 2012 3:21AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9411 - Karma: 10,798
Or until it is proven to be fact
Jan 26 2012 3:22AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
While religion is proven, but you cant disprove it.
Jan 26 2012 3:22AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Religion = awful

Religious people = not necessarily 'bad'


Why do you see everything in black and white? Good, bad... is there no ambiguity, no grey moral area?
Jan 26 2012 3:24AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9411 - Karma: 10,798
If you read my first post again i was saying that i didn't think it was black and white like you said but taken as black and white that's what it meant. I feel like you're contradicting yourself by saying you want ambiguity and then saying all religion is awful
Jan 26 2012 3:29AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
a theorem is a statement that has been proven on the basis of previously established statements, such as other theorems, and previously accepted statements, such as axioms. The derivation of a theorem is often interpreted as a proof of the truth of the resulting expression

Now go ahead and tell me how a god can fit that definition.
Jan 26 2012 3:29AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
What organized religion has done, is doing and can and will do to man and what it stands for in both literal and figurative ways is unacceptable, limiting and hindering scientific progress and causing endless misery around the world.
Jan 26 2012 3:36AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
anymore*.

That probably caused a lot of confusion.
Jan 26 2012 3:36AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9411 - Karma: 10,798
While I personally dislike religion I guess I don't hate it as much as you
Jan 26 2012 3:37AM
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HolySchimmel
Posts: 1601 - Karma: 1,297
well I think it is quite simple. People, and I think everyone, needs something to believe in. Now this doesnt mean everyone has to be religious. Beeing religious, for me, is just a way of believing in some greater power that you can look  up to and that will comfort you. A child for example would probably not believe in god, but would picture some kind of fatherly (or motherly) figure that will comfort him/her. An engineer might not believe in god, but he will maybe believe in some kind of physical laws that will also comfort him in some kind of way, showing him that there is a constant factor in his life, no matter what happens.
Now if we look at history, religion is always "strongest" in times of need, for example during the Black Death (pest) in Europe. Or an example from the normal life: if someone in your family get sick, you would probably start praying for him/her if you are religious. This gives you comfort and therefor is a good thing by itsself, no matter what happens.
So I really dont understand people hating on religious people (of any kind) or on people beeing atheists. It just a personal desiscion. You wouldnt hate on someone just because he doesnt like spicy food either, would you?
So basically what I am trying to say is, that beeing religion (or non-religion) isnt a bad thing, unless used to justify bad things (like the crusades or terrorist attacks) ofc.
Jan 26 2012 3:39AM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
as a counter argument, as someone who prides themselves in the guarantees of science, look at special relativity. einstein suggested all this shit to do with the speed of light, all of which works nicely on a sheet of paper, but really, we have no idea what the fuck happens if some object were to reach the speed of light. according to einstein, it's impossible for anything to exceed the speed of light. well, its impossible, now, until we figure out that it can, at which point physics as we know it will change.

science is kind of a leap of faith too. remember when scientists knew the earth was flat?

its fine if people are going to criticize religion, but using the argument that science is based on facts and knowledge where religion is based on believes and hopes and uncertainties is not really the right approach. science and religion are very much alike i a lot of ways. it's just whatever belief system helps you sleep at night that people are going to gravitate toward, whether that happens to be that there is a definite explanation for things, or that some things are just beyond our knowledge and control.
Jan 26 2012 3:41AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
Everyone knows the answer to your question, so stop trying to instigate unnecessary conflict. Your trolling really has gone downhill.
Jan 26 2012 3:42AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
El oh fucking el.

Science has proven many things, and religion is still yet to prove the only thing they have been asked. Where is god? Prove he exists. We can prove gravity exists, why can't you prove a god exists.
Jan 26 2012 3:45AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Again, praying will not help anyone. It is a crutch to ease fear, helplessness, anxiety and to raise one's hopes that "maybe" someone is listening to your woes and makes everything better. It's a tool for not facing realities of any given situation and it actually weakens the human condition.

If it would be as simple as "personal decision", as for so, so many it is not. Indoctrination that starts from small age, welling inside as faith and "belief" - truth.
Jan 26 2012 3:47AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
I'm not the one trolling here, remember? You are. Science > religion. PROVE me wrong.
Jan 26 2012 3:49AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9411 - Karma: 10,798
Praying gives people hope like you said. Why are you bashing something that gives people hope?
Jan 26 2012 3:51AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Why not just, you know, hope? Hope for the better. Done. I feel better already, no prayers needed.
Jan 26 2012 3:54AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
People should have hope for reality. Not in the fact that some magical bearded wizard is going to fly down and throw touchdowns for them in the NFL. (cough cough FUCK YOU TIM TEBOW cough)

You know what? I want a million dollars right now. If there really was a god, I'd wake up tomorrow in a pile of fucking money. I also want med school to be over with, but guess what? I'm not gonna wake up tomorrow and be an orthopedic surgeon. Ohh hooo but wait..."god works in mysterious ways" Well ya know what? That sounds like a fucking excuse made by generations of people who have not gotten SHIT from god, because there is no. such. fucking. thing. So you can hope and pray for whatever the fuck you want, but think of the god damn starving kids in Africa and tell me, where is your god now?
Jan 26 2012 3:56AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9411 - Karma: 10,798
Woah woah woah. I'm not advocating for religion but why would you care if someone prays for something and it makes them happier and gives them hope? It doesn't affect you









Oh and fuck Tebow
Jan 26 2012 3:58AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9411 - Karma: 10,798
That's what works for you. Works for me too. But it doesn't work for everybody
Jan 26 2012 3:59AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
*was. And science is greater than religion? In what way? How is anybody even supposed to prove/disprove that?
Jan 26 2012 4:02AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
It affects the future of mankind, you seem to fail to understand that. One who prays, believes, might pass it on, like a disease.
Jan 26 2012 4:03AM
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StupidDeep
Posts: 103 - Karma: 9
I think they should teach children the morales and values of religion. No need for some higher being, god, deity or whatever you want to call it. Just good people doing good shit for the good of others.
Jan 26 2012 4:03AM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
why can't you prove a god does not exist?

round and round in circles we go.


shit isn't about proving anything. scientists dont need to prove science is true, religious people don't need to prove that god is true. believe what you want to believe so long as it cannot be disproven. sure there are things that are just wrong, but because something isn't confirmed as "right" that doesn't automatically make it "wrong", it just means..... we dont know. could go either way. insert random idea here. works for both science and religion. no evidence of what happens to objects at travelling at light speed? make up ideas. no evidence of what happens after death? make up ideas.

and yes, gravity exists. yes, many things in the physical realm we can be aware of because we experience them with our senses. anything beyond that, we really have no clue about. like why the fuck we need sleep, how dreams work, how life began, how many dimensions there are, what happens after we die. nobody knows, and nobody can prove anything. we all just believe in different shit and have different theories about it. so it's a little pointless to run around saying PROVE IT PROVE IT all day when there's a lot of shit we can't prove, the existence of god or some sort of divine power is one of them.
Jan 26 2012 4:04AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9411 - Karma: 10,798
I understand what you are saying but it's never gonna go away and because it's never going away the only option I see is basically genocide of religion. Now I doubt you're seriously thinking about that but in my head that's the only option I see
Jan 26 2012 4:05AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
Prove to me that a god exists and you can say that religion > science. Until then, science reigns supreme. Throw a fucking baseball in the air. God isn't making it fall back into your hand.
Jan 26 2012 4:06AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Excuse me? We need sleep because our bodies have evolved to work only extended amounts of time without rest on full steam, as the prolonged use and overt distribution of energy causes fatigue, muscle degradation, loss of fat tissue and may cause damage to brain functions etc.
Jan 26 2012 4:09AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9411 - Karma: 10,798
Actually it is only partially clear why we need sleep. While we know the consequences of sleep deprivation, we still do not fully understand why we need sleep
Jan 26 2012 4:12AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
Because I don't have to.
Jan 26 2012 4:12AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9411 - Karma: 10,798
This is kinda the way it is. Not picking sides but the way the world works religion will have to prove god exists because it is impossible to disprove
Jan 26 2012 4:15AM
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