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November the 3rd...

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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
Just curious around here will be tuning in between Canon and RED.  And who has there checkbooks ready?

It's a big day!  I can't wait.
Oct 24 2011 1:49PM
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Mkvackay
Posts: 1903 - Karma: 5,460
haha had a sneaking suspicion..

but seriously dude, 18k for 4 years, +16k scholarship divided over 4 years = 14k for school every year.

what i could be investing with that money would be insane to think about. damnit school
Nov 4 2011 1:40AM
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Downtofilm
Posts: 6896 - Karma: 20,399
ya
Nov 4 2011 1:50AM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
Huh, what!?
Nov 4 2011 6:21AM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
You place a deposit when you first order to essentially hold your spot in line.  Following that you pay the remaining balance when it's ready to ship.
Nov 4 2011 8:45AM
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Mkvackay
Posts: 1903 - Karma: 5,460
haha i think his comment was referring to the fact that he has an epic already
Nov 4 2011 10:13AM
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plorr
Posts: 3131 - Karma: 529
Haha I dream of the day when I can have a Scarlet as my B camera.
Nov 4 2011 10:15AM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
I understand, but why an epic+scarlett?

The Scarlett is siiick if you ask me. The things it does for that price. I'd say it's THE new camera for semi-pro's. A lot of people who were thinking about buying an FS-100 or the likes will get a Scarlett instead. If you got 5k to blow, you also got 10k. Sort of.
Nov 4 2011 11:18AM
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Coalescent
Posts: 4871 - Karma: 2,063
haha, there is a large difference between 5k and 10k worth of price. + add ons, the FS-100 is much cheaper. HOWEVER, there are those who will make the jump to the red.
Nov 4 2011 2:59PM
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eheath
Posts: 61155 - Karma: 118,806
you always need a B cam :)
Nov 4 2011 3:09PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
Yeah...I need one of those...haha what to do...spent all my money on one camera...my 7D just sold...haha, time to blow the military bonus :)
Nov 4 2011 3:17PM
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Blandct
Posts: 1858 - Karma: 37
if you don't mind telling. what is the deposit percentage on the scarlet.
Nov 4 2011 7:22PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
not really...



for $6k, you can have a pretty functional FS100 setup. you need like 2.5x that to build a functional scarlet setup.
Nov 4 2011 7:27PM
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Downtofilm
Posts: 6896 - Karma: 20,399
Like 1300$ something like that
Nov 4 2011 7:30PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,385
pretty sure deposit it 10 percent.
Nov 4 2011 7:31PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
Mine was $1402

I also got 4 extra Rvolts and a travel charger.  Plan on getting a sliding top handle/redmote tonight since it's much mellower.
Nov 4 2011 8:09PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
For anyone that picked one up I'll be selling a 64 GB SSD and 1.8RedStation when it's delivered. 
Nov 4 2011 8:12PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
jeff and charlie should get this shirt and wear it everywhere

Click for larger image
Nov 4 2011 11:31PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
Done...I bet Charlie has one already...

You in Charlie?
Nov 5 2011 12:41AM
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McLeod
Posts: 1762 - Karma: 1,582
RED Digital Cinema makes two action sports cameras- the RED ONE and EPIC.

SCARLET is by no means a part of that grouping. The original SCARLET concept was (hell even the June 2011 SCARLET concept was). 120fps at 540p is unusable and irrelevant. Drop features and triple price- nice one Jannard.

120fps at 3k for a ready to shoot setup under 10k and my money is yours. 3k for 3k my ass. or even 3k 120fps for 10k read to shoot, nope.

and for folks wondering about cost etc.- for a realistic/cheap SCARLET setup you are looking at something around the 20grand mark. the 14k package is not shootable: no lens, 2 batteries (35 minutes each), and 20 or so minutes of media. if your going to pick up SCARLET, glass is the last thing you should skimp on. Throw on a good 3grand for glass at least, also throw on at least 3 more 64gb REDMAGS and that's 3grand more right there. Another 500 on a couple REDVOLTS, then toss on rails, support, etc. and your looking at a pretty substantial number- and far larger than RED has proclaimed for 3 years.

RED has my deposit but Im realizing more and more that this isn't the dream action sports/run n gun rig that the 2/3 (120fps at 3k) SCARLET was.

congrats to JEFF on the pick up, looking forward to seeing your work with it.
Nov 5 2011 4:32PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
Thanks,

While it may not be for everyone you have to remember they update there cameras.  The original R1's that came out didn't record audio, didn't have playback, and only shot 4K at 24P.

I feel they'll make more framerates avaliable as time goes on.  Honestly for me it works perfectly.  I don't think I'll be using the 120 to much besides maybe a couple web edits. 

I still think the point is being missed.  It is alot to get it up and running, but it's completely upgradeable to Dragon in the future.  It's very much competitive with the F3.  And honestly when you look at the pricing and specs, it's pretty close and the resolution alone puts this camera ahead.

I'd argue that the FS100 and F3 aren't usable for action sports if the Scarlet isn't.  But that's my opinion.  Scarlet still has higher resolution.  Competitive frame rates and will continue to get better.  The man himself said that the firmware upgrades along the way including the next follow up to HDRX and other components of the camera will be free firmware upgrades.

I don't plan to only use it for shooting skiing though either. 
Nov 5 2011 9:35PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Would you rather spend $20k on a c300 body or a Scarlet rig?

No doubt Jannard was overconfident in the past and got ahead of himself with the announcements (which he's since apologized for and admitted to being humbled after all was said and done). But you're still getting a modular brain that capable for what is a relatively cheap price.
Nov 5 2011 9:44PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
Exactly.  Yes its alot of money.  But for me the value isn't in high frame rates (it would be nice) or a fixed lens, or sensor size.  For me the value is in the ability to have a RAW file that's virtually uncompressed.  You have the same Dynamic Range as the Epic.  And I don't have to spend an extra 5 grand on (which opens the F3 up to 14 stops)  After 20 grand already spent. 

RED's firmware is free.  There coloring software is free. 

I really fail to see where this camera doesn't fit in the action sports world.  It does the same thing as the F3 for cheaper and with better resolution and Dynamic Range. 

Sorry not trying to sell people on it.  I just feel like it's being a little overlooked since the 120fps was dropped from the 3K resolution.  48fps is plenty for me. 

I've said this before but if anyone is in Colorado and wants to check it out.  Shoot me a PM and we can link up and I'll let you play with it once I get it up and running and shoot it a few days first :).
Nov 5 2011 9:59PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Not to mention the logistic relief of having a camera that is modular.

There are people who will always find things to bitch about despite the advantages. Take a look at the cinema5d boards; it's full of people complaining that Scarlet is too expensive while denying that the 5D has inherent workarounds that the Scarlet does not.
Nov 5 2011 10:15PM
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.cam.
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 48
The one thing about the scarlet I really hate is that it is only full frame at 4k. It then drops down how much sensor it uses as you drop resolution.
Nov 5 2011 10:40PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
You guys should read up on the history of RED.  It's an awesome thread.  People took a chance on RED in 06/07 putting down deposits for cameras that were "vaporware" 

But people put faith in RED and were greatly rewarded with the Stage 1/2/3 and 3.5 trade in/buy Epic X programs.  I'm not saying this will happen for Scarlet, but RED really treats there customers well. 

People put faith in the camera and the company, got a camera w/o playback, without audio recording with one frame rate option and waited for RED to upgrade it for free along the way.  Then everyone essentially what most companies would release entirely as a new camera for 5000 in an upgrade to the MX sensor.  I don't know any other manufacturer out there that does that.  It makes your camera like new for a portion of the cost. 

Scarlet is upgradeable to Dragon.  And if you've seen the shortfilm example...it will be worth it.
Nov 5 2011 10:53PM
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Jacuse
Posts: 1792 - Karma: 1,549
I was told today that Vincent Laforet has had the C300 for over 9 months, which is pretty crazy considering how fast camera technology is changing.

Anyway on the 19th and 20th i'll be a camera assistant for a short film. Right now we are planning on using the F3 along with a couple 5Ds but the cinematographer ordered the Scarlet PL mount, so if it happens to get shipped by the 19th (unlikely) I'll be able to work with it in two weeks. Stoked!
Nov 5 2011 11:24PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,385
What is this dragon you speak of?
Nov 5 2011 11:29PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
It's a sensor upgrade.

If I remember right they used it on an epic to film this in studio:

http://vimeo.com/25423444
Nov 6 2011 12:16AM
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McLeod
Posts: 1762 - Karma: 1,582
just to point out, frame rate/lack of a higher frame at 3K/4K is a hardware issue and will not be improved with SCARLET firmware upgrades.

by RED's own definition SCARLET is not a pro camera- it outputs at 3.2K when shooting 4K and does not have a high enough frame rate that can be utilized for slow motion at a resolution that Jim himself considers acceptable for a "professional" label.

RED owes us nothing and that is definitely understood. I am just bummed that the camera they touted for so long (that was perffffffffect for action sports) no longer exists. SCARLET-X is a GREAT camera in it's own right. But lets be honest, they might as well have called it EPIC-LIGHT or EPIC-S. It really is just a cheap/stripped down version of the EPIC.

landis is right- it's an incredible camera that destroys just about all of its competition. The C300 is a joke compared to SCARLET- (I wonder how much canon is paying Laforet to tout it so much haha).

I'M NOW SAVING FOR AN EPIC, BUT SCARLET IS A GREAT CAMERA IN ITS OWN RIGHT- I JUST DON'T FEEL LIKE PUTTING 25K INTO A PACKAGE THAT ONLY GIVES ME 120FPS AT 540P.



Nov 6 2011 1:49PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
Fair enough.  It really is what the Epic S would be.  But a little bit less. 

There is a hardware upgrade in the future (dragon)

And good for you.  I'd love to save up for an epic and have those frame rates.  But the reality for me is that I could never justify spending that much on a camera.  Everyone has different budgets and what they see as justifiable.  Yes I'd love an Epic, but that is what I'm hoping the Scarlet will do for me.  I'm hoping I can use it as a launching point to be able to some day afford an epic.  But I can't justify a $35,000 body at this point. 

It is a bit of a let-down on the frame rate front, but it still is better than almost anything else out there in it's price range in my eyes.  While I like high frame rates and slow-mo shots, I have a hard time being impressed with some videos that simply rely on 120-300 fps to put together a 3 minute video with 15 shots.  It's beautiful and impressive for some things though.  Just has to be used in moderation.
Nov 6 2011 1:58PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I agree. While things like 4k and 120 fps would be nice, I don't need either of them, nor do I see any point in complaining about the lack of them other than Jannard's broken promise (let's face it, people should have mourned this years ago). If the Scarlet hypothetically only shot 2k 24fps HDRx, I would still feel the price is justified. If I had the option to shoot 4k 120fps, I am confident I wouldn't even touch that setting because it's beyond overkill for my style.

But then again, if it's true that moiré is practically nonexistent with the fs100, it's pretty damn close to my dream camera, and its a financially viable option.
Nov 6 2011 2:17PM
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McLeod
Posts: 1762 - Karma: 1,582
like jim said, if you want 4.5K for 4.k output or high frame rates than go with EPIC. dont rely on an upgrade. But I think your reasoning is perfect for getting a SCARLET Jeff and I'm sure you will do 'EPIC' things with it ;)

looking forward to seeing some footage!
Nov 6 2011 2:28PM
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Coalescent
Posts: 4871 - Karma: 2,063
I've had a hard time getting my FS100 to show any moire. I know Horner had a pretty good example of it on DVXuser and others were interested in his shot as well.

I can't complain one bit about the FS100. It was a huge step for me but that camera is everything I could've asked for (and more). For the price, it's a steal! I've even seen some bodies down in the 3700 range which is nice!
Nov 6 2011 5:14PM
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[J_Gasper]
Posts: 2983 - Karma: 1,594
it seems like recently a lot of pro videographers are going to the fs100. i think decker picked one up to replace his EX1. i gotta get my hands on one of these.
Nov 6 2011 7:43PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
Exactly.  And hopefully someday that is achievable for me, but my life is different than many I know in the Ski and Snowboard industries.  I'm married at 23 with two dogs.  I don't just make a decision that will directly impact what I can capture on camera.  It's more than that for me.  It's an investment in life for me.  It is for everyone but decisions I make directly effect my wife and my dogs. 

I could almost pull off an Epic(it would've been a limited setup).  But at this point, it really isn't necessary.

The biggest win of this day is that this camera has better resolution, better Dynamic Range and competitive frame rates for a similar cost as the F3 and EOS300C.

It will push prices on next production models down.  RED will be forced to respond to that as well.  And the best part?  All parts you purchase from here on are transferable to your next camera.  Be it Epic or future models released.  Yes more expensive to start, but you save more in the long run if you stick with the program. 
Nov 6 2011 7:46PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I'm most excited by this. RED's competitors will have no choice but to follow.
Nov 6 2011 7:58PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
exactly.  I'm hoping Epic pushes the high speed cameras down a little too...
Nov 6 2011 8:59PM
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McLeod
Posts: 1762 - Karma: 1,582
Landis you hear Ikonoskop A-cAM DII's are shipping?!
Nov 6 2011 9:50PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I did not. I haven't been keeping up to date on that range of cameras since it would be suicide for me to spend that much during my second year of college!
Nov 6 2011 11:07PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
I've looked up those cameras before.  They are kind of intriguing, but seem really limited.  The two samples I saw from it didn't impress me at all. 
Nov 6 2011 11:39PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
I think the Camera to watch for is that Weisscam with the 2/3 sensor that can do 350fps at 1080.  They're apparently working on getting it to do it at 4K.
Nov 6 2011 11:40PM
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1337
Posts: 31039 - Karma: 29,013
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?66210-Scarlet-X-Data-Sheet

do not want
Nov 7 2011 8:20AM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
Why?  Frame rates?

I think alot of people on here really miss the point of having .r3d files.  18 stops of DR, virtually un-compressed.  You can stretch and pull a .r3d so far in post.

Again this camera can do anything the f3 can do at higher resolutions with more dynamic range and a modular design.  And it's less expensive. 

I've stated this already but when the R1 was released it didn't even have more than 1 frame rate at 4K, 24... I really almost see this camera as a R1Mx in the DSMC line-up.  I'm not trying to argue it i'm just trying to understand what you don't want.


Nov 7 2011 9:32AM
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MANDER
Posts: 4017 - Karma: 2,038
Basically making 2k unusable in most situations... Could be amazing for shooting BC skiing though!
Nov 7 2011 9:39AM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
Epic Crops the same way the Scarlet does...
Nov 7 2011 9:52AM
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eheath
Posts: 61155 - Karma: 118,806
Why? Because it crops?
Nov 7 2011 1:35PM
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1337
Posts: 31039 - Karma: 29,013
yup
Nov 7 2011 1:45PM
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Downtofilm
Posts: 6896 - Karma: 20,399
No Need for a tele? 24-105 at 2k = 100-390
Nov 7 2011 1:47PM
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eheath
Posts: 61155 - Karma: 118,806
oh but the fact its raw rgb 444 means nothing, thats cool.

why do you kids with ff sensors always gripe about crops? if you're using a RED im sure having that super wide angle is one of your last worries.
Nov 7 2011 1:55PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Pretty much. FF isn't everything. 2/3" and 4/3" can look gorgeous assuming you have good glass. Hell, I'd take a GH2 over a 5Dmkii its sensor alone, but that's just me.
Nov 7 2011 2:11PM
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