Man drowns as 75 watch

natural selection

I'm sorry but this makes me mad.

THEY NEED TO SPEND FUCKING $40,000 TO WALK INTO FUCKING WATER??? THEY SHOULD SPEND THAT MONEY ON FUCKING PSYCH EVALUATIONS.

What kind of person can stand and watch as someone drowns without trying to do anything? It sounds to me like the fire chief was just angry for not getting the budget he wanted and used this mans life as a way to prove it.

I dont believe it, there is more to this story im sure.

Not sure how to feel. Obviously it is fucked up that they just watched him die and nobody helped. But he was suicidal? The whole situation is fucked.

"But I can also see it from our firefighters' perspective. They're standing there wanting to do something, but they are handcuffed by policy at that point."


That quote just mad me so mad. Fuck People. If a man is dying do the right thing, fuck stupid laws and bullshit rules. Save the mans life.

This is ridiculous

If I was one of those firefighters I'd think "fuck my job, somebodies about to die" and go try and help him.
I cant believe there were people standing around and NOBODY jumped in and went to help?
REALLY?

even forget that there were police and firefighters. You would think that out of 75 other people someone would do something other than watch for an hour.

I mean, it's cold water, but you can easily stay in water like that for well over the 5 minutes it would take to get him out. Obviously he was able to just stand there for an hour, so someone else could easily be in it for 10 minutes.

yep same

A witness did. But seriously guy? This due intentionally walked out there, he got what was coming to him.

*guys
*dude

why didnt the guy walk back into shore?

I would think more than one guy would try in the space of an hour.

So if somebody is standing on the edge of a bridge and nobody tries to help him, he then slips and falls, its "he was intentionally there, he got what was coming to him?"

Stuff like this is such bullshit. At that point, fuck the money, fuck your policies. Someone should have had the heart to go out there and help the guy. I would have. It's seriously sad that they all just stood there and watched him die, and now they've got political excuses for it. The state of humanity today is just absolutely ridiculous.

There has to be

yes, if he doesn't have the common sense to evaluate a hazardous environment then its just evolution working its course.

if you're going to kill yourself, you should be sure about it. i just dont get why that guy would walk out there?

there's no rhyme or reason to any of this.. you can go in water that cold for a while (i know that from A) experience, B) the man lasted an hourish, and C) someone went in to take his body out once it was over)..i don't know whether it's more shameful for the public workers or the witnesses..

sure, the guy was apparently suicidal so it's hard to tell how he would have reacted had someone come in after him, but odds are he couldve been cajoled and/or physically brought back to the beach.. the article states that he looked back toward the people several times, and makes no mention of any sign that would hint that he may be dangerous to approach

it's a completely pathetic story and there are no excuses for it unless there is something huge missing from this report..

the dude was obviously not in a right state of mind, just because he was acting like an idiot doesnt mean he deserved to die. that's a childish excuse

You bunch of naysayers need to shut the hell up. the dude was suicidal, they could have waded out to him and he could have drowned himself right as they got to him. He wasn't actively calling for help or even drowning, this idiot just waded out there until he decided to go under and off himself. Everyone on the beach was probably just wondering what the fudge he was doing out there. For all they know he could have been some crazy with a knife under the water.

I'll give you that it is low of the fire department to blame it on cold water gear that they didn't even try though. Call it like it is, maybe he was a psycho and they didn't wanna get near him.

To go and say that this is a new low for humanity or that americans are lazy pieces of shit though is just an assinine assumption. For some proof that humanity still exists why don't you scroll down to the bottom of the article to the related videos and click on the one of an innocent reporter wading into flood waters to save a stranded woman from her car. Oh look at that, proof that humanity still exists, right on the same page you are using to display how horrible everyone is. Take you're sweeping generalizations and gtfo.

Cold water gear? For 54 degree water? That's not even that cold............

yes

he was suicidal though? its right in there. thats dumb that they couldnt save him but he wanted to die and he got his wish

so because someone is suicidal it's all of a sudden to just let them die. pardon my language, but you are a fucking idiot. people all the time have suicidal thoughts, many of them incredible people who end up doing more than most of us ever will with their lived. Something like 1 in 6 people suffer from depression at some point in their lives. You don't just let someone going through a low point snuff it, you be a god damn good person and help them.

and "they could have a knife". Are you serious??? okay!! everyone! if ever someone looks like they could be in need, never help them. they could have a knife and stab you. in fact, never go outside, you might be stabbed by a lunatic. That's a worse excuse to not help a drowning man than policy not allowing you to.

right, as i said he COULD'VE reacted badly to an attempted rescue

but, especially given the fact that he looked at the people on the beach several times, and the fact that TONS of people that attempt/"attempt" suicide are not truly looking to die, someone at the VERY LEAST could have waded out toward him. if you think that some number out of the 75 people couldn't wade out within 20 feet of him to talk to him without risking a sudden violent move from him, you havent spent much time in chest deep water. sure, say it's his own fault, it is, but that's a childish excuse to not even attempt to convince the guy to not do it, he obviously wasn't thinking very soundly

i dont think i need to respond to your paragraph on sweeping generalizations cause i didnt make any according to the story.. i already knew large groups of people act like retarded sheep

Exactly. I've been in 40 degree water for a relatively long period of time, and it's not that big of a deal if you are moving, and get dry and warm when you get out.

in a way this

But at the same time all you're doing is walking into water and dragging a guy out, for gods sake if like 17 and 18 year olds can do it during summer im sure a grown firefighter can do it.

Standing in water isn't drowning in my book sorry. There has got to be more to this story. How did such a crowd gather over some guy just standing in the bay anyway. I'm saying by wading out in the water he's already displaying unstable actions, yet not actually in danger. I'd stand there and let him walk his as back into shore. I mean for christ's sake it says the guys mom was standing on the beach watching too.

Sorry I'm definitely a little jaded when it comes to death and bringing it upon yourself. I mean we're overpopulated and broke as a country, yet we're gonna dispatch a bunch of people to try and save someone every time somebody gets into a questionable situation?? I think dude got what was coming to him, and it seems like exactly what he was asking for.

Should more people have tried to help, yeah of course. Should the dude have waved his arms for help, yeah of course. Oh well he looked over his shoulder a couple times so obviously he was in need of dire assistance.

I don't think everyone has a knife and is out to hurt me, I was just using an example of someone being psycho. That guy could just as easily tried to drown anyone that came near him but we'll never know.

Call me brash, heartless, or a fuckin idiot all you want. I think it's soft attitudes like yours that are dragging this country down and turning it into the exact flock of sheep that was standing on the shore that day.

but hindsight is 20/20, without a doubt I'm sure if you were standing there you would have totally swam out there and fireman carried his ass back all baywatch style right?

I guarantee this dude walked out there, and people were like "well that's odd". Not like "oh he's drowning himself and suicidal let's stand here and see what happens" Dude probably went under and then it was obvious some trouble was afoot, at which time someone did go out to him but it was too late.

It's called the bystander effect. Google it.

dumb fuck should have known how to swim if he was around water

Fine i will. The US sucks ass, its full of lazy fat fucks. How, HOW could you watch someone die???? thats horrible I am ashamed of being american. Fuck.

ha!!!

quality

Dude my point exactly, I guarantee this was 75 people standing there wondering what the fuck is going on. If the dude looked like he was in trouble someone would have done something.

Also I like how none of you has commented on the fact that there was a related story just below about a guy going into flood waters to save a woman in trouble. Oh no no fuck the USA, lazy turds no good assholes no good can come from that country.

yeah keep focusing on the negative just like the sensationalist news tells us to. You're all heroes and would totally have supermanned his ass out of there if you were in that situation.

We don't know how far out he was, there is no mention of the tide or water conditions other than it was cold. I'll be a realist and say that if some dude is two hundred yards out in the frigid bay and there are twenty firemen and police standing there doing jack shit, well I wouldn't have gone in after him either. Come at me bro.

i think i'm gonna just go with immature (though most of your posts arent) because nothing in the story precluded safely attempting to bring the man in. period. like i said, you can't strike out at someone with a knife when they're 10 feet away in neck deep water. you just can't

also, claiming it's our "soft" attitudes that are causing this is so absurd. giving a shit that someone's dying isn't soft, soft is sitting on the beach, or on a computer, spewing piss-poor excuses like a child for why even one person out of 75 couldnt walk into 5-6 foot deep water to bring ONE person in. soft is not taking action cause youre selfish and know that you can blame dispersion of responsibility.

you can scream personal responsibility all you want, and you might have a point, but it is completely shameful what those public workers and witnesses did (or didn't do rather). childish excuses to not walk in 5 feet of water and at least try

i dont see a problem with the firefighters actions. they arent trained for that and didnt have equipment for it. no point in putting firefighters lives at risk for some guy who wanted to die

wow the soly reason that the article's title is "hancuffed by policy" just pisses me off

No policy should ever come above someone's life, I cant believe not a single person went in

that guy was an idiot. as said before: natural selection.
people.
however, at the same time, i'm amazed that no one went to save him.

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/06/calif-police-and-firemen-watch-man-drown-due-to-budget-cuts/

Alright now the plot thickens, watch the video, it's all policy. I guarantee no one went in because the first responders didn't go in. would you run into a burning building if all the firemen were standing outside doing nothing?

seems like lawsuit fear is to blame. Which I'll agree is very fucked up. Seems like most fucked up situations in the US fall back to stupid lawsuits.

if the first news article pisses you off, check out that one and the video. Cop straight up says if on duty he wouldn't go save a drowning child over 75 feet from shore.

yeah, there are a lot of aspects to it. IMO it's shameful they'd let "BUDGET" reasons supposedly get in the way.. im from the beach, i know that a firefighter is more than capable of going into 5-6 feet of water at 50ish degrees to grab a dude. even if that wasnt the case, it's abhorrent at the policy level for public workers to not have a plan/protocol for water rescues, i mean come on, it's san fran..


but yeah i mean i guess the public workers had good (in a legal sense) reasons to not get involved.. but there wasn't much stopping the witnesses, as evidenced by the fact that the firefighters had one of them retrieve the body. i blame dispersion of responsibility and general sheep-people behavior.. you don't watch some dude in the water for an HOUR and not realize what he's up to

oh well. it's subjective for sure. i just personally think it's shameful what they did

he was suicidal

I'm more disgusted that legal action is what prevented the first responders from going in.

It is retared they don't have like a surf board for rescue or something.

Ya gotta look at things from both sides though. For instance, just for a second try to wrap your head around what occurances happened to put these policies in place. Perhaps a first responder drowning or being swept away or something. There has to be some reason they have that policy.

Regardless though, as an island community it is straight dumb they don't have water rescue training. Maybe they normally default everything to coast guard. Maybe if the dude were another thirty yards out and treading water the coast guard boat would have snatched him up??

Sounds like a wierd and screwy situation for sure yes. A reason to call everyone cowards and stupid I think not.

well i didnt call anyone stupid, just cowardly, but yeah agreed on every other point

lol fuck those people

This makes me angry.

I can't believe people watched someone die without doing a single thing about it. That sickens me.

there were not 75 people watching. The city had a population of 75,000.

lol at the people who didnt read the article and thought that he was drowning as opposed to just standing out there in the water.

If you were walking along the shore and saw someone just standing out in the water would you immediately sprint into the water thinking he was drowning?

And if you came across a bunch of people including firemen and police officers standing on the shore looking at someone who was standing out in the water would you immediately run out there or think he was drowning?

Maybe I'm just an asshole but I probably wouldn't.

Letter to the Editor of the Alameda Sun: Beach safety focus

Editor:

I am an Alameda resident, father of three children, and a Alameda firefighter.

I feel that it is my responsibility to respond to the article, "Be Safe in Water," printed in the Alameda Sun by the Fire Department administration, July 16. The message regarding "Beach Safety Tips" in reference to "lifeguards" can be confusing, and somewhat misleading, so I feel it incumbent on me to clarify certain facts regarding water rescue and safety.

The article advises the reader to "swim near a lifeguard" and to "ask a lifeguard about the conditions before entering unfamiliar water." The public needs to be aware that there are no lifeguards on duty anywhere on Crown Beach's 2.5 mile stretch or elsewhere along the surrounding natural water areas of Alameda.

In 1999, the City Council approved the implementation of a Surface Water Rescue Swimmer program to provide Alameda firefighters with the necessary skills and resources to provide water rescue response to all waterfront areas of Alameda's jurisdiction.

This program was instituted due to the absence of lifeguards, the significant delays of water rescue response from the Coast Guard and Sheriff's Dive Teams, and the lack of certified water rescue training for Alameda firefighters.

After the death of two adolescents below the Bay Farm Island Bridge a few years earlier, the Fire Department urged the City to support a safer, more efficient water rescue response capability, which the Fire Department has since offered, until now.

Last year, the City Council approved a budget presented by former City Manager Debra Kurita and current Fire Chief Dave Kapler that has dismantled the Fire Department Surface Water Rescue capability.

Due to the budget reductions, the necessary recertification of our water rescue swimmers for OSHA compliance was not funded.

As of March 16, 2009, the Fire Department administration issued an operational status change, placing the surface water rescue swimmer program on hold. According to the status change, "all previously qualified Rescue Swimmers shall not enter the water for an active incident until further notice."

What does all of this mean to a swimmer in distress? It means that firefighters may not swim to or use the rescue boat and rescue boards to approach a distressed swimmer in the water.

Firefighters are permitted to toss a 75-foot water rescue rope to the victim, provided the victim is within 75 feet of the shore, to effect a rescue. The Fire Department Incident Commander will request that the County Dispatcher contact Coast Guard for assistance.

So, in the absence of lifeguards, what do I recommend for a "safe and smart" time at the beach?

Don't enter the water with more than one non-proficient swimmer at a time. Having three children of my own, it's very easy to lose track of one while supervising the others. Keep your eyes on and stay close to the non-proficient swimmer at all times. Even in shallow water, maintain a 1:1 ratio. The waves, swells and tides can be challenging for young ones and it only takes a split-second for tragedy to occur.

The person in question that drowned on Memorial day was obviously disturbed and not a swimmer in distress.

i just learned to read and retract this statement. oops.

well I'm splitting hairs now, but I was referring to you calling them sheep which casts them as unable to think for themselves aka dumb.

+k to the dude that actually found that letter to the editor that shines a little more light on the situation. Still messed up though.