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Man drowns as 75 watch

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corona
Posts: 12753 - Karma: 32,285
this has got to be a new low for being lazy.

A man was standing neck deep in water for an hour before drowning while police, firefighters, and 75 people watched. No one did anything. At all.

that is just sad. I don't want to say anything offensive about US culture, but christ. It's pathetic.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43233984/ns/us_news-life/
Jun 1 2011 3:45PM
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Che~
Posts: 2108 - Karma: 296
Actually, yes they do. OSHA doesn't allow firefighters and rescue workers perform duties that they aren't certified in. $40,000 is completly reasonable to train and equip an entire county of firefighters. Westsuits, drysuits, helmets, PFDs, the list goes on and on. The class to become a swiftwater rescue technician is around $500 a person.

Im not saying what they did was moraly right, but by law they did the right thing.
Jun 1 2011 11:50PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
you would have gotten the shit sued out of you if you were a fire fighter and went in to save him
Jun 2 2011 12:14AM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
well you better believe it brother, i was there, i was so shocked by how lazy these ppl are
Jun 2 2011 12:20AM
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nkmo.
Posts: 3994 - Karma: 285
Why didn't you jump in?
Jun 2 2011 12:37AM
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cooper.fry
Posts: 2229 - Karma: 34
this is absolutely, completely, fucked.
Jun 2 2011 12:58AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
brings back memories of the shitstorm i started with the thread about firefighters watching a house burn down...


morally it's a strange situation. If you save the life of a man attempting to kill himself, are you definitely helping him?


I can understand the policy as well though. This is the exact type of shit where someone acts, then the department gets sued and everyone thinks it's a stupid lawsuit, yet the "victim" still gets some huge settlement.



In my own opinion, the fact that it was a suicide attempt changes things. It wasn't some guy struggling to stay afloat. Why should they break their policy, and risk their own people over a person who put himself in that situation, and refuses to stop the situation?


The 75 people watching are irrelevant...it's all down to the 1 guy. Had he just turned around and walked in, problem solved.
Jun 2 2011 1:07AM
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Moosen
Posts: 4285 - Karma: 2,585
Society sucks!
Jun 2 2011 1:25AM
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6239 - Karma: 2,356
Is that the one where the guy didn't make the yearly tax or donation or whatever to the town fire department?
Jun 2 2011 1:40AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
yea the guy didn't pay for fire service, banking on his house not catching fire, then when it did...he learned his lesson.
Jun 2 2011 1:45AM
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Radio
Posts: 946 - Karma: 12
we just learned about that in english this year, some of the facts are crazy.
Jun 2 2011 1:46AM
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jblaski
Posts: 5561 - Karma: 1,027
As a firefigher, I probably have a different view than different people.

But put it this way....

Due to city policy, firefighters were not allowed to enter the wanter to attempt a rescue. If a firefighter decided he wanted to be the hero, there are a number of things that would result.

The best case scenario, the firefighter does or does not rescue the man (doesn't matter either way). He makes it back to shore, back to the station, and then finds out he just lost his job because he violated policy.

Worst case scenario, a firefighter enters the water, and tragically, dies.

Now....OSHA comes in, finds out that the worker violated policy, and the city gets find for 10's of thousands of dollars.

Also, the firefighter is dead. The 10's of thousands of dollars that the city spent to train this firefighter is now wasted. Some wife now doesn't have a husband, some child now doesn't have a father. The firefighters family no longer receives the life insurance payout because the firefighter broke policy. The firefighter doesn't receive a full honor burial (that is typically paid for by the department/city).



Was it worth breaking policy, just to attempt to save the life of someone who wanted to end it?
Jun 2 2011 2:21AM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
nope
Jun 2 2011 2:25AM
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585.
Posts: 4059 - Karma: 77
how could not one of those rescuers not get in the water regardless of the policy? oh shit they break policy and are fired. now all they have is the burden of saving someones life. rough stuff.
Jun 2 2011 2:30AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
saving someone's life doesn't pay the bills....it all comes down to the almighty dolla...
Jun 2 2011 2:39AM
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Bukkakeskitrip
Posts: 5677 - Karma: 95
good job america
Jun 2 2011 2:45AM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
This is retarded. Suicide is the person's choice. There is no need to save someone in the act of killing themselves. They want to do it, so let them. With the way our legal system works, I wouldn't be surprised to see him on trial for attempted murder of himself had he been saved.
Jun 2 2011 2:53AM
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B.Fantana
Posts: 487 - Karma: 86
like jblaski said, if the firefighter tries the rescue he's fired upon hitting the shore or he may never see his family again. What bothers me is that the coast guard doesn't have a shallow water rescue system in place. The responsibility shouldn't fall on the firefighters.
Jun 2 2011 3:17AM
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Bungholio
Posts: 973 - Karma: 5
but but but but but but but but but..... YOU DICKS.....
Jun 2 2011 3:21AM
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AOTEAROA
Posts: 2216 - Karma: 15
fucked.
Jun 2 2011 3:23AM
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bobby.brown
Posts: 199 - Karma: 11
see the problem here is that you used msnbc which is basically a socialist network, and you were dumb enough to listen to their stupid spin about this man dying because of budget cuts... thread creator, im sorry but you are a fucking retard
Jun 2 2011 4:17AM
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Lé.Skiing
Posts: 10035 - Karma: 8,119
New low??? this is disgraceful. If I were watching I wouldn't give a fuck about policy if someones life was on the line. how can you watch someone drown for an hour???
Jun 2 2011 4:43AM
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little1337
Posts: 8161 - Karma: 45,815
fuck you USA. oh wait.....
Jun 2 2011 8:03AM
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tommyp1ckles
Posts: 1337 - Karma: 55
to be fair the man was trying to commit suicide, according to the articles he was only like 50 yards out and he managed to stay out there for over an hour... if he had wanted to swim to shore he could have saved himself

although i guess someone could have at least found a boat and asked him if was sure he wanted to die.
Jun 2 2011 8:25AM
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.Natty.
Posts: 1030 - Karma: 84
I'm a lifeguard and I understand their reaction. First of all as a lifeguard you have to ask a victims permission to help them to prevent being sued for everything you own and more (if they're unconscious or something there's implied consent) Also, in a water rescue, it is very easy for a distressed swimmer to end up drowning their rescuer, especially if the rescuer is untrained, and even moreso if the victim doesn't want to be rescued. Just my $0.02
Jun 2 2011 8:35AM
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StevenR
Posts: 1372 - Karma: 33
To everyone saying "oh, he wanted to kill himself, let him do it", well I'm no psychologist but I have heard the phrase "cry for help" used countless times in relation to suicide attempts. I mean come on, the fact that he looked back a few times, and then stared at everyone for an HOUR means he probably wasn't 100% on it. If he really, truly wanted to end his life, don't you think he could have thought of a better way to do it, especially being so close to San Francisco (bridge... just saying).

And to the people saying it would have been dangerous to get near him because he might have been psycho, or even because the water is cold...god damn. Fine. But in an HOUR nobody could find a canoe or a zodiac or something to get within earshot of him just to have a conversation? Bull shit.

And to the people saying everyone else wouldn't have known he was attempting suicide, I don't buy it. The article said his mother in law was there and was telling authorities he was being suicidal. There is no way that didn't make its way through the crowd. That being said, I don't really blame the innocent by standers at all, because they would have seen that authorities weren't doing anything an assumed there was a reason for that, which is totally reasonable. But seriously, no cold water gear? Like I said, canoe. Boom, problem solved.
Jun 2 2011 8:49AM
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PASKIINGSUCKS
Posts: 9097 - Karma: 777
I guess not as the video I posted in the news link clearly shows a cop stating that he wouldn't even break policy for a visibly drowning child.
Jun 2 2011 9:00AM
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RunRich
Posts: 207 - Karma: 11
"the water was too shallow for boats." THEN FUCKING WALK OUT THERE!
Jun 2 2011 9:41AM
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CAPITA-DEVOURS
Posts: 1968 - Karma: 4
first, holy fuck america, get ur shit together. second, there were 75 people watching? why the fuck couldnt one of them go and get the guy? fuck thats bullshit.
Jun 2 2011 9:50AM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
Ah, the irony! San Francisco can spend $175,000 to relocate a shrub, but they can't afford to re-certify their first responders.


San Francisco Spends $175,000 to Move a Small Shrub. San Francisco Chronicle columnists Phillip Matier and Andrew Ross have uncovered a doozy: San Francisco taxpayers recently paid $175,000 to move an 8-inch-tall, 20-foot-wide shrub. They write: "Money may not grow on trees, but it sure cost taxpayers a bundle to move a bush that was found growing in the path of the Doyle Drive rebuild. Not just any bush – this was the Franciscan manzanita, a city native that was thought for 60 years to be extinct until the bush was spotted late last year. With the final bills in, the cost of moving the bush in January came to $175,000 – $140,000 to dig up and move the shrub, and $35,000 for "support" services from geological, botanical and climate experts in preparation for its new home in the Presidio less than a mile away."

Cal-Tax recommendation: San Francisco officials need to find out how it could possibly cost $140,000 to dig up and move a shrub, and then must eliminate the waste that caused the price tag to grow like a weed.

If natural selection really worked, that would have been Nancy Pelosi out there.

Jun 2 2011 11:49AM
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soulskier
Posts: 17805 - Karma: 3,821
i guess i just cant put myself in their shoes and see myself going out there into a potential struggle with a suicidal, but yes it is unfortunate
Jun 2 2011 11:52AM
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Captain_Slow
Posts: 1677 - Karma: 24
If the guy wanted to kill himself, he'll probably end up doing it one way or another. Even if they saved him, would he stop being depressed or suicidal? Im guessing no..

If he wants to commit suicide, so be it?
Jun 2 2011 12:04PM
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6239 - Karma: 2,356
Yeah man, fuck that guy! I saw that story and felt not one single ounce of sympathy for that ass hat!
Jun 3 2011 2:58PM
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BlackieChan
Posts: 1474 - Karma: 193
That fucking pisses me off. I honestly can't really put much else together than that was disgusting. How people could just stand and watch a life fade is beyond me.

After the part in the video after the firemen claimed to "follow orders" I had to close it before I threw my laptop.

Fucking livid right now.
Jun 3 2011 3:06PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
Just confused, this is what we have come to America. A country of stupid, apathetic, brain dead loser who put the $ above human life. Fuck us.
Jun 3 2011 3:13PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
I'm ashamed you're American too if that's all it takes...

See, the guy wasn't thrashing around he was STANDING in NECK DEEP WATER. He wasn't crying out for help or anything, he wasn't even in deep water and I'll bet most of the 75 people were really just wondering wtf everyone was looking at.

As a rescuer, I'd have to say that if the guy's just standing there I'd be trying to get him to walk back to shore too. Shit, you swim out there and you could be drowned/stabbed/injured yourself trying to wrestle the guy to the shore if he's mentally unstable, which he clearly was. (or he could see you coming and start swimming out farther, making it worse/harder to get him back) Same thing with people on ledges- you don't go out there and physically drag them off, as there are so many dangers when dealing with someone like that in such a situation.

I'm not saying it's great, it's awesome or it's cool... I'm just saying there's definitely protocol that needs to be followed when dealing with suicidal people, and the guy never sounded like he was struggling, the witness in the article said he was just standing there and then started floating face down. I would think someone would have waded out and tried talking to the guy but the safety of the rescuer is first and foremost so that's their call individually, not ours.

I can see where one's gut reaction might be to say "well I'd just go out there and drag him back" when that is a pretty stupid thing to say if you really examine the details and are familiar with the defense responses from the mentally unstable/ suicidal.

Surely it is sad, but it shouldn't destroy your pride in your country.
Jun 3 2011 3:59PM
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PASKIINGSUCKS
Posts: 9097 - Karma: 777
Wow you draw such a strong conclusion about the entire US from one story eh??

well how bout this one, just one guy witnesses a lady in distress. So if 75 people don't help the whole US sucks. Here's one guy helping out from a crowd of 1, must mean 100% of people in the US would help out if put in a similar situation.



http://newslite.tv/2011/06/02/tv-news-reporter-saves-woman-f.html
Jun 3 2011 4:00PM
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BMB
Posts: 3138 - Karma: 232
True this.
-Bystander- I could be doing something here, but since no on else is I guess it's okay to not do anything...
Jun 3 2011 4:08PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Wow, you're easily sent over the edge...

Also speak for yourself douchebag. I've been volunteering my tits off ever since the tornadoes ripped through my city the other day- climbing into tree-trapped neighborhoods and making sure people are ok, then clearing trees from the streets with crowds of strangers so emergency workers can get in there... So pardon me but what the hell have YOU done for society?

I GUESS I'M ASKING WHAT YOU'VE DONE THAT LETS YOU JUDGE THE ENTIRE COUNTRY!?!?!? You save people?? You volunteer for disaster relief??? Soup kitchens??? Really if you've ever done anything to help someone you didn't know I'd be amazed. So tell us man, since you seem to have such a keen insight into doing what's right and how to do it what it is you do to make America a better place. If you can't honestly think of anything, then please retract your statement as you have not earned the right to it imho.

What WE have come to??? You're absolutely right- fuck you.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to empty my closet of everything I don't NEED so I can give it to people who now have nothing when I see them after I have a chance to eat some food.
Jun 3 2011 4:16PM
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snowdon
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 391
That may be so, but I can see how this could happen. A few months ago, I was on the tram or whatever they're called at the Miami International Airport and a man collapsed (heart attack?). The tram car was packed with people, and even though his wife was literally begging for someone to help him, not one person did anything. They all just either stared at him or ignored him completely, and stepped over his body to get off when the doors opened. I ended up pulling out my phone and calling 911, and my dad did CPR but the man died.

It really freaked me out. Not just seeing someone die like that, but that so many people simply let it happen. They were completely detached from the situation. I've seen people get more emotional in movie theaters, and no one wanted to help.
Jun 3 2011 4:21PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
And now the government (republicans) doesn't want to help out the tornado victims because of budget concerns...

That's great you do all those things by the way, you can be excluded from my previous statement.

By the way I am American, so my statement applies to myself. At least you worked yourself up into a little tizzy, maybe you can use some of that energy for for something constructive.
Jun 3 2011 4:26PM
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PASKIINGSUCKS
Posts: 9097 - Karma: 777
amazing, you sir most definitely have incredible amounts of class. I mean if the whole of the US could aspire to be even 1/100th as compassionate as you I'm sure you'd be much more proud to live here. Well done in what I'm sure are your innumerable successes so far in a life well lived. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.
Jun 3 2011 4:46PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
Thanks!
Jun 3 2011 4:56PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
I am sorry, I didn't read your whole post the first time. Generally I stop reading when people pull out caps lock.

I made a blanket statement that obviously applied to the story at hand. You took it way out of context and frankly fucking pissed me off with your bull shit.

I was highlighting the fact that this is what America is becoming, a place where 75 people will watch a man die because there is not enough money in the budget to have someone swim out to him.

The tornado natural disaster is terrible, but that is my point. There government should be there to help those people, not that you shouldn't help, but you shouldn't need to. Like those fire fighters should have saved that man trying to kill himself.

So I apologize for my statement and the subsequent ass raping I received for making it (even though several people came to the exact same conclusion.)

By the way, the statement said nothing about myself and ended in WE fucking suck.
Jun 3 2011 5:07PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
were you in a wetsuit or something? whats a relatively long period of time? i'm calling bullshit.

anyone in water under 40 degrees will lose consciousness in around 30 minutes at best. I jumped off a dock into 38 degree water and when i came up to the surface i had trouble swimming back to shore and had a terribly difficult time breathing. i was in the water for about two minutes and i honestly think that after 10 minutes i would have blacked out and drowned due to exhaustion.
Jun 3 2011 5:19PM
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MatRich
Posts: 4789 - Karma: 1,812
AMERICA FUCK YAH!!

here in canada, we have something called common sense... gets over looked in the states sometimes. If a firefighter comes back from the rescue with the guy saved, he will not lose his job, we give him a paid suspension... what does this do? This is the part where logical thinking takes over reading a fucking book. The man will be given his job back for going beyond the call of duty and acting apropriately when no other rescue was at hand. he will probably be awarded a medal and a big cold beer!

but forget the firefighters for a minute. That dumb bitch in the video for instance.... bitching about how cold these guys are. Im sorry but 75 people in that audience had nothing to lose and didnt even help this guy out. they are the losers.
Jun 3 2011 5:19PM
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katalina
Posts: 794 - Karma: 16
that is so fucked. i have been lucky to have never been in a situation like that, but if i was i would probably be hysterical and crying and like unable to move. that's fucking gross that they stepped over him and didn't do a damn thing. i want to hurt those people.
Jun 3 2011 5:25PM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
Can you ship some of that common sense to the bay area? They ran out of it years ago and keep forgetting to order more.
Jun 3 2011 5:57PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Listen man- I hear what you're saying and on some level I can identify with the sentiment, but you're only seeing it from one side. You know what a combative suicidal person does when you try to come and get them? They fucking kill themselves.

In the situation at hand the guy wasn't thrashing around screaming for help, he was standing. From the shore, I'm sure he didn't seem like he was in immediate danger, so there's no call to provoke him into going any further in the water by going in after him. Then the guy starts floating while they're trying to talk him out of it. What the fuck? America's all fat lazy fucktards now? Get real.

And what I'm saying to you is this- If shit is so bad and you're so disgusted with society, what the hell are you doing about it? Probably nothing... Sitting at home with a bunch of dudes playing Xbox holding your dicks talking shit about how lazy people are while you wait for your mom to buy you that fresh snapback you've been asking for. THAT'S why I say you haven't earned the right to talk shit about people who are actually out there saving people and risking their lives for pennies. Maybe you should be a little more real with yourself, I don't know... But at least someone had the sense and quick-mindedness to use this shitty incident to get more rescue equipment for the FD/rescue squad out there.

About the tornadoes- SHUT YOUR DOUCHEBAG MOUTH. You'd be amazed- no, BLOWN AWAY at what the govt' had brought in. 1,000 national guardsmen, electrical crews from as far away as Michigan, every tree company in a hundred miles has been commissioned, and literally every utility worker, social worker, contractor, landscaper, insurance adjusters and fuck, even FEMA is crawling all over the city. They've even fast-tracked federal aid money and disaster resources so that they can get the families effected back on their feet ASAP. So take that fucking political bullshit and shove it up your ass, it's just not true no matter how much you'd love it to be.

I just jumped right in when shit went down because I care and these are my neighbors, not because I felt the government wasn't working fast enough. When things like this happen, it's not just up to the government to handle it while you prestige again in CoD- it's for you to get the fuck out there and do your part like you'd hope others would do for you if the shoe was on the other foot.

This concludes today's lesson in why you're an ass. I hope you've found it to be informative.
Jun 3 2011 8:40PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
yeah i wouldn't save someone's life if it was against the rules either...


not.
Jun 3 2011 8:46PM
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monkatizer
Posts: 4704 - Karma: 1,518
thats nothing! i have been in 40 deg water for well over 15 mins no prob! and i hate cold water too
Jun 3 2011 8:56PM
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