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SPOILER ALERT. Inception discussion

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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
Once again, this thread is about the end of the movie, if you haven't seen it, don't scroll down till you do see it. If you haven't seen it, go into the movie and right at the beginning say to yourself "what is this entire movie was true/possible"

































Okay So now that that is out of the way. What did everyone think of the end of it...

My theory is that he is still stuck in limbo and will be forever. He spins his totem to see if it is reality but when he sees his kids he just doesn't care anymore. They are wearing the same clothes they were wearing in his memory when he tried to change it so that he could see their faces. Once he finally does change that memory and is able to see their faces he accepts that as his reality whether or not it is actually reality. Also i think the fact that the totem spun for ever but still wobbled meant that he was still somewhere in the middle of reality and dreamworld.

Then again as I typed this I thought of a few reasons why he had to be in reality... That movie was wild, its crazy to think about if all of that was true or possible. My mind got fucked 5 ways sideways from that movie.
Jul 16 2010 11:49AM
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860media*
Posts: 1569 - Karma: 10,462
If he was still in Limbo he would know because everything was super fucked up there, there were no projections, and that house got pretty much destroyed in the scene where his wife stabs him.
Jul 25 2010 10:54AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Yeah, but with this aspect I agree with Thugaim. Even if you or some people know how lucid dreams work and triggers and dream watchers start working against you, you can't just expect thousands of people with no idea about lucidity to take your theory as "truth" when nothing of the sort is explained - Cobb could have mentioned to the architect that even triggers can fail when you reach level this and that.

Great fucking movie no matter how you look at it, but don't go calling bullshit on someone else's theories just for kicks and background info you have on a certain subject.
Jul 25 2010 3:23PM
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QuikWildkat
Posts: 23 - Karma: 10
aw fuck why did i read this i wanted to see that shit daaaaamn
Jul 25 2010 4:56PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Well let's compare it to Waking Life then, where throughout the movie hints about lucid dreaming, triggers, marks and the longevity of time in dreams are dropped constantly and still leaving the ending open.

I meant that you can't expect everyone to know about lucid dream states and base an argument about a movie around your knowledge because "that's how it works". Nothing else.
Jul 25 2010 5:24PM
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Jgombasy
Posts: 180 - Karma: 62
The movie was awesome. plain and simple.

But there is major problems when comparing that to real life.

1. In a normal dream state(level 1) time is not manipulated that much. There has been tests with lucid dreamers using eye movement patterns to communicate with the reality world while in there dream world. After many tests and trials they came to the conclusion that time is almost unchanged with just a little bit of drag. So 5 minutes in the real world is more like 6 minutes in the dream world. I dont know about lower levels of dreams and time but i know that the whole 5 minutes = 1 hour thing isnt true, but it makes the movie more plausible.

2. I dont know about others but the average person can not control what information is available in there dreams if they dont have any practice with lucid/controlled dreaming. The fact that the most secret parts of somebody's life is kept in a safe or are hidden, i dont think works. For me, my secrets are harder to keep safe in a dream because i dont have full lucidity. But it makes the whole plot way cooler knowing your infiltrating someone's dreams and stealing from them.

3. In dreams text and numbers are either false, always changing, or do not make sense. So the whole idea of stealing papers from someone isnt going to give you there secrets. Also how they kept time in the dreams wouldnt have worked because one of the main triggers for lucid dreaming is to look at text or numbers, look away and think about something else then look back to see if they have changed. This is called a reality check.

4. If you ask someone in your dreams, am I dreaming? they are most likely going to say no because they are projections of your mind. This is becuase in reality someone will say no so your mind will carry that over into dreams because all people in your dreams cannot be made up. The faces cant be spawned from imagitation, your mind has to have seen it from somewhere before for it to transfer. This is why some peoples faces seem to not be complete or cant see to full of look at them. This is becuase your mind only had a glimpse of that face.

Over all dreams are awesome and lucid dreaming is hard to train yourself to do. It is easier to do it the younger you are and it gets harder throughout life. This movie was a great story and had a great plot in my opinion. i loved every second of it but the fact is that it was a movie so it could distort gravity in some and not other dream levels. In real life this would be much different but i still think the movie was the best ive seen
Jul 25 2010 9:07PM
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eheath
Posts: 61106 - Karma: 118,269
That movie was fucking great. I just read a bunch on some websites about the movie, shits crazy. I think that he is indeed in "reality" and the top was actually going to fall. This one site i read said that in the dream sequences, Cobb was wearing a wedding band, but when he was in "reality" he was not wearing this wedding band AND he wasn't wearing a wedding band. But, the ending of this movie is indeed fucked also. Also, even thought the kids are wearing the same clothes, on IMDb they list the actors and actresses for the kids as two different kids, one set of younger and one set of older, they also were wearing different shoes at the end. Although its very subtle, the kids in the dreams and the kids in the end are different.

I read on the same site that the end is very open to interpretation and the director made it that way on purpose, he wanted the audience to come up with their own idea of what was happening, instead of the movie telling you. So really, the end could be anything you want it to be.

Overall great movie and i want to watch it about 5 more times in a row.
Jul 25 2010 10:32PM
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MN_Nice
Posts: 3824 - Karma: 56
Wow... This changes shit up.
Jul 25 2010 10:54PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,296
yup saw and want to see it again. I am 100% sure if, when watched again a few times, tiny things will be picked up hinting to whether he is infact in reality or still dreaming. I guess i'll have to wait and see.
Jul 25 2010 11:01PM
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crooks
Posts: 14693 - Karma: 786
can someone please help me out with this:

so there's a scene where Leo explains how him and Mol grew old together, and it shows them mad old walking down the street holding hands.. but when they lay down on the train tracks they're young again. that kinda threw me off..
Jul 26 2010 12:02AM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
Mal and Cobb grew old because they were in limbo for 50 years. They achieve multiple dream levels such that 50 years in limbo would be a few hours in the real world. To get back to reality, you need to die and the train was the vehicle to send them back to reality.


After a 2nd viewing, I think Inception is pretty clear cut. What is implied as a dream is in fact a dream, and what is implied as reality is in fact reality. So when we see Cobb and others enter a dream state, that's exactly what it is. I also noticed that the wedding ring is on his finger for every dream sequence and missing during reality. At the end, there definitely was a wobble sound suggested his totem was going to tip over plus his daughter had a completely different outfit on.
Jul 26 2010 12:18AM
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COskier
Posts: 1066 - Karma: 131
You go with the parameters they give you in the movie and enjoy the ride. So it isn't possible, who gives a crap. The fun of the movie isn't the technology it's the ideas.

Do you come out of Harry Potter saying, "Wait, but magic isn't real. That was all impossible. It was all lies, lies I tell you!!!"
Jul 26 2010 1:55AM
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COskier
Posts: 1066 - Karma: 131
And will someone please address this. And I know there are three things there not two.
Jul 26 2010 1:56AM
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eheath
Posts: 61106 - Karma: 118,269
So the gravity in the mountains is mysterious but people online have suggested that it happened because the motion and gravity in the dream is effected by the dreamers inner ear (or something similar) so when they are in the van, in motion free falling, the hotel has no gravity because the dreamers inner ear is being effected but while they are in the hotel, the dreamer is just floating and is not in any kind of physical motion so the inner ear isn't being effected which is why there was normal gravity in the mountain scene.

Who do you mean by the dream manager? Cobb and Saito didn't wake up because they were in Limbo.

And the kick when they hit the water was to bring them out of the dream they were in, the hotel. Then the kick in the hotel was to get them from the mountains, etc. The kick in the dream doesn't wake them up from that dream, the kick effects the people sleeping during the kick, right?

After typing that last section, im questioning myself. Does the kick in the dream effect that dream or the dream the dreamers are in? Because i didn't think they needed a kick from the first dream because they had a natural wakeup time but they needed to be kicked from the dreams that were gonna last weeks or years, right?
Jul 26 2010 2:20AM
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eheath
Posts: 61106 - Karma: 118,269
I don't think it was inner ear at all now that i think about it, i think it directly had to do with any kind of motion and because the people in the hotel werent in motion thats why there was gravity in the mountains but since the people in the van were in motion it caused for no gravity in the hotel.
Jul 26 2010 2:25AM
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steezeeepolizeee
Posts: 8756 - Karma: 796
bumping threads to get trolls off first page
Jul 26 2010 8:16AM
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followCam
Posts: 1907 - Karma: 446
I agree with that bit you said "didn't think they needed a kick from the first dream because they had a natural wakeup time but they needed to be kicked from the dreams that were gonna last weeks or years"


So when the girl was in Limbo with Cobb and Mal and the rich guys son(forgot his name), her kick to get out of that was jumping off the building?

in the mountains the kick to wake them from that was the hotel explosion, then in the hotel the kick was the lift falling/exploding?
So why did they need to drive the van off the bridge cause that didnt kick them from the first level of dreaming since they were always going to wake up at the end of the sedation. Man that confused me and doesnt make sense.
Someone explain it?
Jul 26 2010 9:34AM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18212 - Karma: 12,257

Just got back from seeing inception, movie was awsome!

the ending tho....made me mad a little lol, the spinny thing kept spinning then the movie stopped!

w/e movie was great otherwise

Jul 26 2010 9:41PM
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bootleg_BEN
Posts: 2499 - Karma: 44
Dying in limbo isnt really a kick, but if you die you wake up. They cant die when they are sedated or they will go into limbo and not know it. So they need kick to bring them out of it.

So the van kick was to get them out of the hotel. The elevator was to get them out of the mountain. Correct? The mountain explosion was to kill them since they werent sedated?
Jul 27 2010 12:20AM
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Beer=Yum
Posts: 334 - Karma: 11
I just saw this yesterday and it is one awesome movie. A couple things didnt seem to maybe match up completely though but maybe it was just so confusing at times that it did. When Cobb is holding his wife at the end and tells her that they did grow old together when they were in limbo and it shoes the 2 old people walking holding hands, but then when he is telling the girl that he used inception on his wife to get her to leave limbo by killing themselves they are still young when they kill themselves laying on the train tracks which is obviously when they left limbo so why would they be old then young when they left?

Another thing was that you couldnt kill yourself in the 3rd level of dreaming because you would go into limbo and not know what was up and get all fucked up. But then you can just kill yourself when your in limbo to wake back up. So whats the big deal about going into limbo since they said that after a while of being stuck there you dont know whats real and whats not. So you could just kill yourself right away and wake up.

Despite the confusion, this movie was really awesome and that stuff just made you think and there is probably an explanation for both those things that  I just missed. Definitely want to see it again. And I think he was back in reality at the end.
Jul 27 2010 1:31AM
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Piste.Off
Posts: 11586 - Karma: 1,861
You can kill yourself in Limbo and become normal again. But once you are in Limbo you think that it is reality. So you think if you kill yourself you will actually die and not go back to the real world.
Jul 27 2010 1:37AM
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assface
Posts: 4319 - Karma: 2,031
the ending was bullshit. it would have been like if fight club would have ended right after tyler durden shot himself....

i really really good movie shouldnt have to end like that to promote discussion. it needs closure
Jul 27 2010 3:12AM
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assface
Posts: 4319 - Karma: 2,031
all im saying is that they left the movie too open.

people still talk about fight club and that ending was closed...
Jul 27 2010 6:43PM
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Piste.Off
Posts: 11586 - Karma: 1,861
What about, No Country for Old Men, or A Clockwork Orange? Both movies have endings that hint towards what could possibly happen but they still leave you hanging, while still being awesome movies. All I'm saying is you do not need a closed ending for a movie to be great. There's many great open ended movies.
Jul 27 2010 6:56PM
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Piste.Off
Posts: 11586 - Karma: 1,861
And disregard ACO's book ending. I hated that ending and the movie's was much better.
Jul 27 2010 7:03PM
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soulskier
Posts: 17805 - Karma: 3,821
Now this is what I thought the first time I left the theatre also, but seeing it a second time I was paying closer attention to the other details I guess
During the beginning of the movie he spins the top and it falls over, and to the best of my knowledge the movie ends in that same "level"so the way I see it the top would fall over
I realize I'm quoting the fifth response in this thread and its probably been mentioned before...
Jul 27 2010 8:57PM
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pat_in_the_hat
Posts: 3019 - Karma: 2,695
there was gravity because the hotel  was normal per say and not flipping and shit. BUT how the hell did he get the elevator to fall if there wasnt gravity?????
Jul 27 2010 9:43PM
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Ducky.
Posts: 5811 - Karma: 1,420
.
Jul 27 2010 9:52PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
the hotel had the same gravity as the van. The van was in freefall, so that became no gravity. When the van hit the water, gravity took over again, and brought the elevator down.
Jul 27 2010 10:01PM
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pat_in_the_hat
Posts: 3019 - Karma: 2,695
ahhhhh thanks for that....
Jul 27 2010 10:07PM
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SKIU4EA
Posts: 2387 - Karma: 2,072
the whole point of the "open conclusion" at the end was to generate theories and discussions like this. so, i guess it's fair to say it was a success.
Jul 27 2010 10:09PM
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bootleg_BEN
Posts: 2499 - Karma: 44
Wrong.

He broke the cables holding the elevator, then placed charges on the elevator and it sent the elevator up/down and hit the ceiling/floor, and kicked them.
Jul 27 2010 11:09PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
i thought he set the charges so that the elevator would be propelled slightly before gravity took over, that way the kicks matched up?

Because even if he broke the cables, and set the charges, the kick would've been delayed. But to be honest, i can't remember that scene that well. I'm gonna have to see it again.
Jul 27 2010 11:26PM
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bootleg_BEN
Posts: 2499 - Karma: 44
Ya, i think he used the music as a timer, and luck maybe, but ya i remember him setting the charges and holding on as the elevator shot up/down. And the van hadnt hit the water yet.
Jul 28 2010 12:34AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
yea, i think he did use the charges to propel it, otherwise there would have been a massive delay in the kick, because the van needed to hit the water, and only then would the elevator have started moving, so it would have been a few more seconds before it hit the ceiling/ground.
Jul 28 2010 12:46AM
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have.faith
Posts: 338 - Karma: 97
I thin he was just at a point where it no longer mattered. he was home in one way or another, he finally let go of his wife's death. but I was so confused how the asain was already in his subconscience in the beginning of the movie...
Jul 28 2010 1:06AM
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The_Future
Posts: 1418 - Karma: 607
I didn't read the thread, but all I have to say is this was BY FAR the best movie I have seen in quite a long while.  Absolutely loved the movie.  It made me think to the point where I thought my head was going to explode.  If you have ever thought about something so much and so in depth that you have to stop thinking about it because you feel like you're going crazy, go see this movie. 
Jul 28 2010 1:23AM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
I saw it and all I could think was "it's not even close to as good as the first Matrix"
Jul 28 2010 1:38AM
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lion_craps2nite
Posts: 14 - Karma: 10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWAHGwbauDQ



the lion shit 2 nite
Jul 28 2010 1:40AM
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MN_Nice
Posts: 3824 - Karma: 56
Get out of here you fucking troll.
Jul 28 2010 10:23AM
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-Marc-
Posts: 865 - Karma: 207
I saw it again last night, and im pretty sure he was in the real world again. At the start the chemist guy said he would be stuck in limbo until the drugs wore off, and by the very end they had, which makes me think they woke up by themselves. Either way it was a great movie, Ill definitley be buying it
Jul 28 2010 11:30AM
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LukeB
Posts: 462 - Karma: 10
I just saw it and this is what I thought

His wife was right all along and they were in a dream in dream so when they got out of limbo they were still in a dream and had to die to get back to reality. So what leo thought was reality was actually one step away the whole time and that is why the top stayed up in the end, yeah it wobbled but when he saw his kids he didn't even look back at the top because he didn't care and just accepted that as reality because that is where he wanted to be.

I don't know if that all made sense, i really like the movie though.
Jul 29 2010 1:52AM
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Ducky.
Posts: 5811 - Karma: 1,420
Sounds reasonable.
Does this mean there will be a number 2?
Jul 29 2010 4:53PM
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Sherpa
Posts: 270 - Karma: 1,774
epic movie, definitely up there with avatar and district 9 in my books
Jul 30 2010 9:44AM
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ChipSki
Posts: 327 - Karma: 34

Click for larger image

Jul 30 2010 12:03PM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
this. if there is a sequel i will fuckin kill someone, that would ruin everything
Jul 30 2010 12:05PM
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The.Ginger
Posts: 978 - Karma: 13
Inception is one of the best movies i have ever seen... but who the fuck thinks up with something like that? a dream within a dream within a dream within a dream...
Jul 30 2010 12:13PM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
serious eh, i heard that one was supposed to be good too
Jul 30 2010 12:26PM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
tru. thanks for the review, im definitely not gonna watch it unless im bored and decide to find a stream online
Jul 30 2010 12:35PM
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EthanH*
Posts: 375 - Karma: 129

So in the end, I think he was in reality. If he was still in limbo, he would have had to brought back his dad, along with create the airport, his house, his children, etc.

But what happened at the begigning in the asian palace thing, and the end in the asian palace thing. They cant have been the same time, because mol would have had to come back after he "kiled/left/forgot about" in the end of the movie. So were they two different times in limbo?

Jul 30 2010 1:59PM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
one thing i was wondering about the movie: you know how when you die in a dream, you wake up in real life. well let's say that happens, what becomes of the body in the dream? does it just die and then there's a lifeless body just chillin there or do they like disappear or some shit?
Jul 30 2010 2:48PM
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