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Protect Our Winters - Only 16 days left to...

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Rime.
Posts: 632 - Karma: 615
Take some Action to put carbon emissions controls in effect and Save our Snowpack!!!

From the site:

The US House of Representatives passed the American Clean Energy and Security Act last Fall. It’s an amazing step forward, but now this landmark legislation is currently in danger of being held up in the Senate and for a bill that could be decided by one or two votes, holdouts will make all the difference.

A Senate vote must take place within the next sixty days or we risk losing any momentum gained, and witnessing a very different future.

Protect Our Winters was formed in 2007 to unite the winter snow sports community in the fight against climate change – it is our collective responsibility to protect our mountains from the effects of climate change, but also guard our mountain communities from the economic fall out of a shortened winter. Winter fuels our passions, but also fuels the lives of thousands of individuals who depend on annual tourism and recreation for their livelihoods.

So while some see climate change as a scientific phenomenon, when we look at the cost of inaction, it's serious business. To us, climate change is a threat to our local economies, our jobs and the vitality of our unique mountain communities that draw millions of tourists each year who shop in our stores, ride our lifts, eat in our restaurants and support thousands of small businesses.

Strong climate legislation will create millions of new jobs and move the US and towards a new, clean energy economy, while protecting the winter season that fuels our passions and drives our local economies. We have sixty days to do this.

http://www.60daysto.org/

Apr 27 2010 6:12PM
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WikiWiki
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 426
shit needs to go through-i hate politics soo much
Apr 27 2010 6:18PM
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Fischer-Addicted
Posts: 1064 - Karma: 30
You better be prepared for a hardcore debate thread............
Apr 27 2010 6:23PM
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Fischer-Addicted
Posts: 1064 - Karma: 30
Not to mention millions of new ways for the gov't to tax the ever loving shit out of citizens over something that we can not control. /thread
Apr 27 2010 6:25PM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,007
You're not the brightest, are you.
Apr 27 2010 6:34PM
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Fischer-Addicted
Posts: 1064 - Karma: 30
You fail to look beyond the initial point, don't you?
Apr 27 2010 6:45PM
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WikiWiki
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 426
what the stupidity of your comment?

and yes thats a real word
Apr 27 2010 6:46PM
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rossta.
Posts: 455 - Karma: 247
No matter how much people bitch about taxes, its all neccesary. Without taxes paying for the support systems our country/world runs on nothing would get done....

...and personally I would feel a lot better paying taxes knowing that the money was going towards environmental conservation and creating a sustainable energy market rather than paying back our debt for a pointless war over oil and ego
Apr 27 2010 6:58PM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,007

Interesting Argument About Global Warming - Watch more Funny Videos
Apr 27 2010 7:10PM
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noparking
Posts: 1123 - Karma: 50
Carbon emissions = bullshit about our snow pack.
Apr 27 2010 7:52PM
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rossta.
Posts: 455 - Karma: 247
Ahh touche`, great video.


^ It's less about carbon emissions being the 'source' of our problems and trying to blame everything on that - relating carbon emissions to snowpack is only a way of personally connecting with the issue and a possible relationship between the two...
The ultimate goal here is to end our reliance on oil and fossil fuels as a way of running our life to create something cleaner for all of us and the future of our planet. Cuz no matter how you look at it, we need to get off of oil and become more independent so that we aren't getting in wars over this shit and so things like whats happening in the gulf of mexico right now don't ever happen again
Apr 27 2010 8:06PM
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WikiWiki
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 426
oh yea i forgot about that- the last 30 years of scientific research by the best scientists in the world was just a hoax

people who argue against global warming remind me of hose who are for intelligent design- they take some totally skewed statistics and claim them as fact- out of the 4000+ scientists polled 15 said they didnt believe global warming was manmade- yet those 15 are the only ones being interviewed by fox news- its scientific fact people-

oh its a natural process- sure give me the last time the earth has warmed systematically like it has in the last 65 years- ill tell you- 15 million years ago when a meteor a mile wide slammed into present day china- i dont know about you - but i havent seen any mile wide meteors in the last 100 years-


Apr 27 2010 8:10PM
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Forkstealer
Posts: 508 - Karma: 16

Climate change means longer colder winters and hotter summers. Thats why they changed the name from Global Warming to climate change because it certainly does not warm the earth's temperatures year round. Sounds like a good thing for both skiing and summer vacation to me. The reason why its a problem is because of the landmass we will lose by the massive swamps that changing ocean levels will cause, basically uninhabitable because of the annual flooding.

Apr 27 2010 8:32PM
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.jw
Posts: 154 - Karma: 16
From an article just published on WIRED's website:

"Karl Popper, the great philosopher of science, once divided the world into two categories: clocks and clouds. Clocks are neat, orderly systems that can be solved through reduction; clouds are an epistemic mess, “highly irregular, disorderly, and more or less unpredictable.” The mistake of modern science is to pretend that everything is a clock, which is why we get seduced again and again by the false promises of brain scanners and gene sequencers [global warming issues]. We want to believe we will understand nature if we find the exact right tool to cut its joints. But that approach is doomed to failure. We live in a universe not of clocks but of clouds."


Instead of throwing arguments back and forth that we have all heard a billion times, cant we look at points like the nerdy dude above and all agree that regardless of either True or False, Yes or No, the best thing we can all do is to innovate to become as little of an impact as possible in as many aspects of our lives as possible. Oil, carbon...there are even theories that tie global warming to the Nostradomus 2012 thing. WTF. And use media as an analogy...when the digital world started changing media it threw things into a shit storm that people are still trying to fix/understand. Its not as easy as just changing things one day. To change something this massive and this important, you have to first decide where you would rather be; and that last part is where it becomes tricky.

We are going to be trying to fix/understand issues that relate to 'sustainability' (even though I hate using such a cliche word) in all industries all across the world. For us younger generations, this is our 'industrial age' type of opportunity. So I say quit bitching about what it is or isnt, because it is everywhere, and start looking for ways to improve and innovate some of these 100+ year old industries, processes, and habits.
Apr 28 2010 6:27AM
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Static
Posts: 8494 - Karma: 4,068
more like, without slavery nothing would get done
Apr 28 2010 6:38AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 269
ill agree that something needs to be done, but if this act just means more companies putting out more lame ass hybrids, then im not for it.
people dont realize that the mining and disposal of all the resources thats necessary to make and dispose of the batteries for these hybrids is just as bad.   which is why the whole electric car thing is just going to end up doing the same thing, polluting the environment, and making all the resources harder and harder to come by. its just doing it in a slightly different way.

so really until someone can actually come up with a legitimate fuel source, that can actually take over gasoline, im going to continue to drive my gas guzzling cars. 
and also until people stop having to lie to get us to believe in global warming, i wont take it seriously.  but until then im going to continue to think that the whole thing is just a very good way of making a shit ton of money.
Apr 28 2010 1:05PM
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clint
Posts: 978 - Karma: 31
And don't these 'best scientists in the world' estimate the earths age is around 4.5 billion years, which can be expressed as 4,500,000,000. So what, we may have 100 years of real good data, but that 100 years compared to the 4,500,000,000 years that the earth has been around doesn't seem like much. Where is your proof that this doesn't happen every 1,000 years? or 10,000? or how about every 1,000,000 years?

just my 2 cents
Apr 28 2010 1:42PM
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Fischer-Addicted
Posts: 1064 - Karma: 30
thank you, 100 years isn't 1 second in geological time..........
Apr 28 2010 2:13PM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,007
Well you risk being wrong. It's better to be safe then sorry. What's the harm in taking precautions and playing it safe, we only got one chance
Apr 28 2010 5:26PM
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cmo
Posts: 2325 - Karma: 1,085
a. how old are you?....b. are you college educated?....and c. do you understand science?
Apr 28 2010 6:03PM
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cmo
Posts: 2325 - Karma: 1,085
scientists and geologists are beginning to understand what the climate of the earth was like very very far back in time, thousands and thousands of years using tree rings for the past couple hundred years, including ice cores taken from ice that is thousands of years old and encapsulates everything that was in the atmosphere at that point in time. SO before you go questioning 99% of the scientific community...do some reading (and not that internet bullshit) subscribe to a peer reviewed journal....and then feel free to drop knowledge
Apr 28 2010 6:08PM
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WikiWiki
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 426
thank you- for i was too lazy to type that out- using ice cores from deep in the antarctic we can look back accurately up to 80,000 years, with petrified wood we can look back up to an infinite number providing we can find the wood old enough-right now thats around 35 million years- which is a pretty goddamn long time- compared to 4.5 billion years thats nothing- but also consider that until roughly 1.1 billion years ago this entire planet was volcanoes and hydrogen gas- so that shit doesn't even count- - for the types of ecosystems we have now its has been around 500 million years- so like the quoted guy says before- stop listening to your politicians- and start listening to scientist- sure doubt it- its your right as an american to lay doubt to any claim- but this is like arguing against evolution- stupid, has no support, and is primarily(not everyone) believed by the right - its a debate for the people now- scientists concur-its just the everyday American that still debates for or against it these days- oh and if anyone even thinks about bringing up the mit guy- first off- hes a biologist, secondly his chief and primary source of funding for his last piece was a coal coalition- even mit wants him out but they can't fire him because theoretically he hasn't done anything wrong
Apr 28 2010 6:25PM
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Rime.
Posts: 632 - Karma: 615
Wow...imagine all the progress that could've been made if everyone who replied in this thread put that same effort into something constructive, instead of just arguing about it?

And if everyone who looked at this thread sent an email, there'd be well over 400 emails to our senators.

Its easy. You click 'take action' fill out your name, address, etc...if you're browsing around NS, you obviously have 1 spare minute to fill this out. Its the same amount of effort as registering for Vimeo, Youtube, or anything of the sort...

Take some action, guys. It's way easier than it is to form a big written argument and reply in a thread that everyone'll just forget about in a week anyways...and it makes way more of a difference.
Apr 29 2010 4:09PM
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Newschool_Pope
Posts: 2473 - Karma: 267
and the world is a disc and the center of the universe...
Apr 29 2010 4:33PM
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Rime.
Posts: 632 - Karma: 615
Send an EMail to your senators before the bill get introduced tomorrow! LAST CHANCE!
May 11 2010 3:33PM
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HamFaceGirl
Posts: 5242 - Karma: 2,679
Ok guys, lets not make this thread into a discussion about G.C.C.
May 11 2010 3:41PM
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Ban11
Posts: 1388 - Karma: 24

The proof lies in paleoecological proxy data, gathered from many different sources, including core samples from trees, glaciers, and lake bed sediments.  These sources can provide reliable climate data going back nearly 100,000 years.  Standard Milankovic parameters do not account for the current aberrations (eccentricity, precession, albedo, etc.).  However, there is a strong positive correlation between post industrial revolution carbon emissions and the current rate of climate change.  This is not to say that the Earth's history hasn't been characterized by many different climate cyles, but the data we have shows that the rate of the current climate change is unprecedented, and again, also coincides with post-industrial rev. carbon emissions.  Or, look at it this way:

Fact A:  Carbon Dioxide is a green house gas; increased atmospheric concentrations lead to a decrease in how much heat from insolation can escape through our atmosphere. 

Fact B:  Carbon, which is a relatively rare element, is being dug up, pumped out, and burned at historically unprecedented rates...all of this ends up in our atmosphere as carbon dioxide.

A + B = ???

Perhaps the answer to A + B is our current climate change, perhaps we are experiencing this on top of some other non-anthropocentric cause furthering climate change, but at the very least the future of this planet is not ours to gamble with.  It is only our job to do whatever we can while we are here. 

May 11 2010 4:20PM
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Rime.
Posts: 632 - Karma: 615
Yep. There are already a million threads like that, instead of arguing about it lets keep this one on the topic of taking action for some change, eh?

http://60daysto.org/take_action.html

Click the link - Fill out your name - Send an eMail.

Its simple and effective...so instead of taking 5 minutes to form a decent argument/response in this thread, take the 2 minutes and click the link. If you're an economics type of guy, run a cost benefit analysis on that and find out which is more efficient - spending 2 minutes taking effective action or 5 minutes arguing something that has no end/meaning.

C'mooooonnnnn.....
May 11 2010 5:26PM
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