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March, 2024

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Answering to binding adjustment question: the memo

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quebecfreestyler
Posts: 13040 - Karma: 1,418

Ok I,ll make it short and clear: if you are not a certified shop tech or know exactly waht you are talking about, dont anser to any of the binding adjustment questions.

If you lead someone in the wrong direction, you may be responsible for screwing hisknees and maybe other parts of his body big time.

Mar 4 2008 11:30PM
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vtrider
Posts: 1988 - Karma: 41

I'm gonna have to give my 2 cents on this one.

First off, I'm going to give you my brief background.  5+ years working at an on mtn shop, 4 + years with Rossignol Ski Co.  (not a claim, I'm just give you my background in the industry)

Binding adjustment should be left to a Certified Tech.  Anyone giving out ANY information on how to setup bindings of NS is completely retarded.  Seriously.  You don’t know what your risking by advising someone on a indicator setting, or how to adjust forward pressure. 

Binding company’s such as Rossi/Look/Roxy, or Salomon/Atomic, or Marker, have full time lawyers who have to deal with settlements with bindings, more then you think.  They (read manufacture) will back up a Certified Tech, being that they understand and have taken a test on how the certain bindings work.  But they wont back your ass up on giving advice over NS. 

Lets give a quick example.  Say Joe shop guy ( a certified tech) sets a customers skis.  The customer, goes skiing, hits a jump, and for whatever reason blows out or doesn’t blow out of his bindings, causing himself to blow his knee.  The custy, then tries to sue the shop for setting up the bindings improperly, which is when lawyers will get involved, and more then likely the manufacture of the binding will back up the tech.

Now, same example, but replace "JOE SHOP GUY" with "Dumbass Newschooler.com user"  Your not a tech, you don’t know how to properly adjust a binding, and you advise on how to setup a binding to someone over NS.  They bust themselves, and you are left liable for what you suggested on setup, which can royally fuck you over (read mega lawsuit). 

Even a Certified Tech should not give out information over the Web/NS.  To properly setup a bindings, you need to perform a visual test of the products given, Boot, binding, and ski.  You cant see they quality of a product over the web, so insist someone brings the skis into a shop to get them adjusted. 

Trust me when I say this:  DO NOT ADVISE ON BINDING SETUP OVER NS.  Leave it to someone who knows what there doing.  Do not attempt to adjust bindings yourself.  When adjusting bindings, "close" doesn’t count. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.  Not with adjusting bindings. 

May 26 2008 7:56PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
I agree with the fact that people who don't know anything should have their equipment and set and tested by a certified tech, but as far as liability goes...I think any advice given over the interweb should at the very least be taken with a grain of salt, and falls under the "use this at your own risk, if you eff yourself up, it's your own fault cause you adjusted the bindings, not me" clause.
I do some shop work and mount/set everything of mine, but hey, I know what I'm doing and have access to the equipment.
And I can say that "close" is relative, and sometimes it does count. Setup is not a perfect science, it's a close-as-you-can-get kind of thing. And really, most DIN settings have a small margin of error.
May 26 2008 8:49PM
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*kiwiNZ*
Posts: 249 - Karma: 13
Of course a binding company isn't going to back up some random person who give advice on their product on the internet. Why the fuck would they? The only reason they back up certified techs is because if they didn't the shop wouldn't stock their bindings its a simple as that.

Someone who gives advice on here is not going to be liable because for starters someone would have a hard time getting your actual name and where you live from the website. The fact that the website is based in Canada would make it virtually impossible for some american to try and sue you as well because they couldn't force the website to provide your details.

So in the end your example is stupid.
May 26 2008 9:22PM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
Are you kidding me?



I hope you are joking.

The internet is not anonymous.  And yes it is very easy for anyone to find out your info.
May 27 2008 11:25AM
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*kiwiNZ*
Posts: 249 - Karma: 13
Not legally its not!

And unless they get it legally they cant use it.
May 27 2008 8:01PM
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Steezy_Street
Posts: 833 - Karma: 161
Im certified Head/ Tyrolia, salomon and Rossi
Jun 25 2008 3:15PM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 911
So Ced, What is your height Weight and sole length and where are your bindings set?  We will assume you are a beginner!  :P
Jul 9 2008 8:14PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
I love how this thrad has turned into everyone claiming what binding certs. they have.
Jul 9 2008 8:38PM
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TimmyK
Posts: 779 - Karma: 15
I'm a certified tech for all manufactures and believe me you want your din set properly i'll take a pre release over an injury and i've had many
Jul 19 2008 2:03AM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10887 - Karma: 2,165
Well the office is in Montreal but the servers are in Texas making it even easier for American authorities to access all the information.

Believe me, the internet is no longer anonymous and if someone wrecks themselves because of advice you give, you can be held accountable should that person choose to come after you. There are things called court orders that can force a company to turn over personal information in a legal case.

1) even if you are certified, DON'T GIVE INFORMATION
2) don't be cheap! have your local shop adjust your bindings!


Aug 8 2008 9:53AM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14477 - Karma: 10,515
i was 13 when they came out and i figure out how to adjust them. its not hard. i got rid of those peices of shit though
Aug 10 2008 2:01PM
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TimmyK
Posts: 779 - Karma: 15
ok i am a certified tech and i will never tell someone what there din should be,  again don't mess with your bindings take them to a shop
Aug 13 2008 4:27PM
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TimmyK
Posts: 779 - Karma: 15
well that is your fault at 3+ you go down the chart to the next level which would be 8.5, at 7.5 it is a type 3
Aug 13 2008 4:29PM
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Funnel
Posts: 7808 - Karma: 1,414
Truth be told man, I just won't post one of those questions.
Aug 18 2008 11:48PM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 149
If you are certified for all bindings like you say you are - then you would know that without knowing the BSL and the type of binding then there is NO WAY that you could tell him 8.5 is the setting for "+3"
Aug 25 2008 12:59AM
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HamFaceGirl
Posts: 5242 - Karma: 2,679
chea son
Aug 28 2008 8:53PM
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OLDFRED
Posts: 194 - Karma: 9
On a slightly different note: Should I really be trusting someone at SPORT CHEK/ SPORT MART...or another Big BOx Athletic Store to mount bindings on skis??? Are their techs really certified? I know someone is going to say don't buy from them....                                          
Aug 29 2008 1:30AM
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Microcosm
Posts: 4765 - Karma: 153
I suppose they have to be certified in order to actually mount bindings in order to avoid potential law suits and such, but if you wanted them center mounted or mounted in a specific spot I wouldn't trust them to get it right.
Aug 31 2008 11:46AM
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crzyskier311xxx
Posts: 515 - Karma: 12
I work for Sport Chalet and yes we do have to be certified to do our binding mounts/adjustments, and we have all the jigs for the bindings we are certified to use.  We get the same training as everyone else.

I can't say every one of the techs at the other stores can do center mounts, but there are a bunch of us who can.
Sep 4 2008 1:24AM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
i have no problem with people taking their skis to a shop and getting their binders adjusted but when i take in a mounted pair of skis to get ground and beveled and they give them back to me with the din at 6 when i had them at 10. DONT FUCK WITH MY BINDINGS
 that is all i ask
Sep 6 2008 11:35PM
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Pwn.Mode
Posts: 1061 - Karma: 10
i got marker and salmon cert.
Sep 10 2008 4:55AM
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Merrrick
Posts: 529 - Karma: 717
ya that's pretty gay, did you have a shop put them there in the first place? cause if not, they probably just could tell that it was way too high, but they shouldn't just change it without you asking
Sep 17 2008 3:34PM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10887 - Karma: 2,165
when a shop takes in a pair of skis to do ANYTHING to them they are basically saying "yes those skis are safe for you to ski on" basically if you crash and blow out your knee, you can turn around and say "they set my din too high". if i was a shop owner i sure as hell wouldn't want that so i'd make sure everyone's skis are set to what they should be.

stop whining!
Sep 23 2008 9:14AM
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crzyskier311xxx
Posts: 515 - Karma: 12
ya your tech shouldnt have touched your bindings if you didnt have binding work to be done on the ticket....
Sep 24 2008 12:22AM
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Pwn.Mode
Posts: 1061 - Karma: 10
you're kinda slow hugh? you just said in a previous post you would not give any info about din settings then you just post that and you dont even know the BSL. where ever you work i'd be sure not to go there.
Sep 24 2008 1:44AM
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KravtZ
Posts: 6637 - Karma: 2,629
im a certified shop tech and for some of you who dont no...they base ur dins off a chart or atleast the store i work at does and we use a automatic machine that is right almost every time to set bindings. i mean sometimes it comes out low or high but try out what the shop tells  you and if ur poppin like crazy turn ur din up 1 see how that goes then turn it up again until ur good cuase is it really worth it to break your leg and have a higher din
Sep 25 2008 10:19PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
Coming late to the meeting eh?
Sep 27 2008 4:25AM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 149
I don't know if you should be certified
Sep 28 2008 11:37PM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10887 - Karma: 2,165
you're certified?

that is probably the worst possible advice i've heard. if you keep popping out, go see your local shop because there's a good chance that the forward pressure is not set properly on the bindings. if you keep dialing up the DIN, you're going to break a leg.


Sep 29 2008 9:15AM
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^FRANK^
Posts: 6 - Karma: 10
i agree with above i know that the machines are not good at setting dins you need to test the din every time also the din has alot of factors that contribute to it not just height weight sole length and ability but also but you need to take in to cnsideration the conditions and the type of skiing you are doing aso the general tech can't look at a chart and tell you based off of that you need to really know your stuff and def when settin for freestyle kids or back country even racing it all depends on wqhat is going on i change my din all the time based on conditions and believe it or not you should not adjust a half or whole number go quarters it work a hell of alot better the slightest movement in din can change alot even the way you ski




and i know i don't use punctuation
Sep 30 2008 7:16PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
No.

The reason there is a DIN chart is for that very reason.
The way you ski can have an effect, but not much.
The DIN is for the release value...which doesn't vary, it will take the same amount of force to release a DIN @ 10 while racing as it will while doing bumps, or back country or whatever...what will change is how much tension you need to hold you in properly....and release you properly.
Sep 30 2008 7:29PM
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Pwn.Mode
Posts: 1061 - Karma: 10
haha pwnd.

what ever the din is set to, to your boot size/height/weight is how much weight( i believe in lbs/foot or somthing like that), is constant. when you change the din you change the amount of force it takes to release.  obviously alot of these "shop guys" don't torque test or they would know this kind of info.
Oct 2 2008 5:29AM
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^FRANK^
Posts: 6 - Karma: 10
okay here we go first if you believe that you can go to alaska and ski real mountains like a helo and still be using the din you are you should prob be sucking on a fat  one instead of doing that granted if you are askin for advise on your din you won't be doing that at all i did not say that your din releases you differently when your doing other things but yes i am saying that you might want to crank it up at times in order to insure not coming out caue if you drop in to pure pow like never been touched sixteen feet of it and you weigh 150 at 5'10'' with a sole length of about 317 you really don'[t want your din at five which would put your twist at 50 and fwd lean at 194.                                






            hey Mr. torque test yes you do this however it is done to make sure the binding works correctly and release when it should
Oct 2 2008 10:28AM
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^FRANK^
Posts: 6 - Karma: 10
just as a note they would be marker bindings
Oct 2 2008 10:33AM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
Funny you should mention that...I live in Alaska.

Ok, so basically you're still wrong. All you've done is say that: "i did not say that your din releases you differently when your doing other things but yes i am saying that you might want to crank it up at times in order to insure not coming out" which essentially means that if you don't want your bindings to release you(which is most definitely less than safe in almost all situations) then you should increase your DIN, which everyone in here already knows.

DIN is a standard and it's constant. It doesn't release differently, etc. The only thing that will change is how much force you might want or need to hold you in, which is exactly what I said before.
Oct 2 2008 1:12PM
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^FRANK^
Posts: 6 - Karma: 10
okay i'm lost on what you just said maybe cause i loose myself in what i say i'm just saying that there are times to adjust i did not say not to follow the chart at all i do but just like evrything else it is a guide line thats all i'm saying that you should take other things into consideration but always be sure you feel safe i'm not saying that if the chart says hey you should have your din at five you pump it up to ten at all i mean lets say turn it up to five and a quarter which makes a enough difference but won't put you at the point where your leg will break not sayin anything else

Oct 3 2008 9:55AM
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SnowJumperAK
Posts: 76 - Karma: 12
Alright, so now i do have a good safety question and why shops do things the way they do. I understand theres a problem with just crankin your bindings on the go and not testing them and all that stuff. But, I take my skis to the shop, say.....REI or Peter Glenn, about the only two shops that can get something done at a decent pace here in Anchorage, AK and i get my shit set up. I am 5'11", 192 lbs, with a 334mm sole length. 3+ skier. they set me up with a 9 din. which is awesome, never had a problem pre releasing or them staying on when its bail out time. I dont have a problem with them at all, i like them just how they are. What i want to know is i wrote my weight down at 192lbs, thats pretty much a pair of gym shorts and t-shirt, no shoes. With my gear on and depending on the day, say my Tecnica Agent 110's weigh, well shit i have no clue, its gotta be at least 7 lbs though easy. And im feeling spicy, so instead of skiing at Alyeska once again me and my bro's decide to ride the snowmachines up hatchers pass or something like that, so i have my pack on with my shovel probe and beacon in it, not to mention some water and granola. Pack weighs about 15 lbs or so. of course i have all my ski gear on to include helmet and goggles and jacket pants etc....all that probably weighs close to 8 more lbs. Now my total body weight is closer to 220 lbs now. How does this all work? Are din settings compensated for this extra weight? because the next day i may be over at Alyeska not needing all that extra gear/weight. What do you guys feel about this kind of situation and crankin up one half or one full setting? Im not a certified tech or even know or would even try to set up my own bindings, but ive been skiing for 13 years now with this same question.  I cant just take my skis to a shop everytime i need them adjusted for day to day use. And i dont always adjust them, i usually just leave them where they are and dont even think about it.
Steve
Oct 6 2008 4:52PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
My initial response is that I doubt it will make a difference.
If it does, then after 13 years riding, you should feel ok adjusting them by .5 in either direction to compensate.

And lastly, try World Cup, they have far better techs, etc.
Oct 6 2008 5:59PM
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SnowJumperAK
Posts: 76 - Karma: 12
Its the same way i feel, can it really make that huge of a difference?? im not saying its by the book right or anything but its something ive always thought about and done. I might have to check out world cup, i just picked up a set of Kung Fujas and i need to get my jesters mounted up. thanks for the response though and the tip!
Oct 6 2008 7:06PM
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6239 - Karma: 2,356
I ROFL'D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oct 7 2008 9:25AM
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bernard.saucier
Posts: 248 - Karma: 61
Can you explain in a nutshell what it means for a binding to be mounted at (for example) 308BSL ?
Also, How to calculate (when you buy used skis) if the holes already made will fit  your bindings....

Ohkay, let's say i want to buy some 176 Trouble Makers mounted 308 BSL and fit my 120 FKS binding on it. I'd like it to be center mounted and my sole length is 315 mm. IS IT POSSIBLE !!!!!!?

I'd be very grateful for a decent answer

Oct 15 2008 10:41AM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
There are a few things to consider here:

The BSL just means that is the boot sole length they were mounted to fit at the line for. Pretty simple.

Your question about fitting other boots depends on the bindings, FKS clamps have a very small margin of adjustment (I want to say 2mm in either direction, but don't quote me on that, cause I could be off), so in order to be able to fit without remounting, your boot would need to be in the range of adjustment for the particular binding in question.

Also consider that even if your boot does fit (which I'm guessing it won't in this situation, but most bindings have a lot more adjustment than FKS), depending on how much you adjust to fit your boot, it also moves the midsole line accordingly, so if you adjust the bindings 10mm back to let your bigger boot fit in for example, you just moved the line back 10mm from center.
Oct 15 2008 3:15PM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
It would actually be moved back only 5mm.
Oct 19 2008 1:05AM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
How do you figure?
Oct 19 2008 3:22AM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
If you are adjusting the binding for a boot that is 10mm longer, the bootcenter is still in the middle of the boot.  You are essentially adding 5mm to the toe length and 5mm to the heel,  thus adding 10 total.  So when you put it in the toepiece, its only moving back 5mm, the other 5 is compensated for by the heel sliding back on the track
Oct 19 2008 12:17PM
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Pwn.Mode
Posts: 1061 - Karma: 10
uhhh only if you're remounting it. if not then it moves back 1 cm. and u fail.
Nov 6 2008 3:53AM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
That's kinda what I was thinking too...cause I'm not moving the toe forward, only the heel back.
Nov 6 2008 1:27PM
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h_bar
Posts: 1611 - Karma: 506
haha, true that
Nov 14 2008 1:17PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
your honor, billys legs were torn entirely from his body after a member of NS suggested setting his DIN to 18.
Nov 18 2008 10:07PM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 149
the court suggests under a duty of care, that it was resonably forseeable for billy's legs to be removed due to an excessive DIN setting
Nov 19 2008 7:56PM
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