Blue mountain: The worst decision ever.

true say
its noones fault but the kid's
why should blue take the blame for the prinks actions, fucking shit if you ask me

it's pretty simple. liability waivers are so full of legal jargon that is almost impossible to understand. because of this a)the plaintiff can easily state they did not know what they were signing (unusual but happens) or b)another lawyer can easily find possibly overlooked loop holes.

basically i think waivers should pretty much state "by signing this you release us of all liability. you are paticipating in an activity that can cause serious injury or even death."

I most admit..I didn't read through all of this..but since Steve asked me to respond with my opinion..I will.

A couple of qualifiers for my opinion..

I manage a resort in Ontario (Not Blue)
I am a mountain biker, I love built features..and I do "Trials"....I ride a Kona Dawg..and a Norco "team trials".

First off..a little about waivers..

they ARE NOT full of legal jargon...in fact that have been increasingly easier for the layman to understand...pretty clear...you are responsible..and by signing them, you have done a couple of things....

Your signature means,

You legally claim to have ACTUALLY READ the document.

You legally claim to UNDERSTAND the document.

You legally except responsiblity for your actions...and injuroes...

Does this hold up in court....99.9% of the time YES...

As long as the resort/business/person(s) being waived HAVE DONE DUE DILIGENCE to offer/provide/and maintain the expected level of safety, or product/service delivered.

Due Diligence is a sticky component, which plays heavily on common sense....if you can accurately define "common sense" you are a better man than I..since over the past 16 years in the buisines..I have learned...that "sense" (ones thought process) is NOT "common"..but as diverse as the people we are.

This is why we (resorts) all abide by a similar code of practice..and the ones that didn't..are falling into line....for example mandatory helmets..no inverts..gated access...no GAP jumps..the list goes on) If you look back to some of my responses to these sorts of threads..you can see I'm a very passionate advocate for standards in parks.

If a resort/buisness/person/or group cannot sufficiently MAINTAIN the integrity of the product or service they are offering...THEN...the waiver is flawed..against the resort.

To the common rider/patron, it is easy to overlook the trials and tribulations faced by operators...because..you had fun..you didn't get hurt..you think it sucks....and you know...it does suck....

I have no idea/knowledge/or inside edge about whether or not Blue closed the park..took out features or anything...so i can't comment....

One thing to clear up...INTRAWEST SOLD BLUE MOUNTAIN..I think two season ago now..to a US holdings firm...so to say INTRAWEST has big pockets...they may..but their pockets no longer are footing the bill...

Here's another issue that HAS to be discussed on this topic...

Riders/resorts are constructing bridges and elevate plateforms...(as a base...teeter totters etc. are another point).

In every province and state..there esists a building code/engineering standards etc which define the rules and regualtions for....

Bridges
and
elevated plateforms

For example...an elevated plate form...be it a concrete pad..wooden deck...walkway...etc, when installed ANYWHERE has to abide by standards wuch as BUT NOT LIMITING, a railing when ever the platform is higher than a stated measurement from ground level....

Bridges, are highly engineered structures...as a point of interest on a greater scale...look at the bridge failure in Minn. State....

I have YET to see ANY Mtn. bike park/feature that appears to have been constructed to meet ANY of these codes...you and I all know..that ALL of the stuff we build in the woods and ride...and watch VIDEOS of..are "joe build" hammer nails and misc. wood features....I've built them..I've rode them...we all have...and thats ALL FINE AND dandy..because none of us are excepting any responsibility..because we don't own the land..nor charge people to use it..

When people get hurt on a resort..they just don't disappear...they go on file...and sometimes stay there for many years....10 usually...

When people are SERIOUSLY hurt...they get filed with our insurance companies...which IMMEDIATELY STARTS COSTING MONEY...right away...no "Letter of Intent"..no law suit..nothing...because we have to start paying our insurance adjusters fees to review and begin building a file in case YOU DO decided to sue....

Insurance is not cheap....if you think your car insurance is expensive....try paying a resorts bill...lets just say its a number OVER 6 figures long...EVERY YEAR..and if you have Mtn biking...double it.


Did you know that the LARGE majority of reported/serious MTN bike accidents are HEAD/NECK injuries..that can often result in paralization..of two or more limbs..for life? When this happens at a resort..the (parents usually) injured has little choice BUT to lay a claim on the resort?..In fact, if you have life insurance (whether injury or death)the insurance company AUTOMATICALLY does this...because..where do you think THEY get THEIR money...it certainly isn't from the minimal premiums you (or your parents..or your parents employers) are paying.

So...I never meant this to be a novel..but most of you that know me..know I am heavily involved in, and passionate about Risk Management, Due Diligence..and providing "common sense" tactics FOR YOU...since many don't arrive at our resort with it.

In short..I think it sucks if Blue had to pull out their features....removing them from you guys...and myself..who have/do/or will ever ride them...

But I CERTAINLY understand the mindset...and have no choice but to support it...

Until YOU all understand this..YOU all except that our sports are in danger of being killed by the reasons above and support our quest to do what we have to keep it alive as long as we can. YOU are a part of it's death.

We (and I speak for all resort operators) are NOT the Anti-Christ to your sport/fun....Why do you think we are in this business...WE LOVE IT TOO...if you think we make tons of money doing this..you are SADLY mistaken..most resorts just get by year to year..and the pay ain't nothing to write home about either...We HAVE to make HARD choices/decisions...we don't always make you happy....but in general..we are making the MASSES happy....


Love me or Hate me

Mark

From what I understand Intrawest itself was sold and not just Blue Mountain. If Intrawest had infact been sold there wouldn't be any Intrawest logos around Blue or on my bike pass

No problem...I don't claim to be an expert..but I am an insider...

correction:

if BLUE had infact been sold

hmm...thats contrary to what I was told..but certainly could be the case....

I'll have to check that out...I do know ownership changed hands two seasons ago or so...

anyway..that wasn't my point really...

For those that think a company has "BIG POCKETS"..YOU..are a MAJOR part of the problem..YOU are the type that sues because you think..."Oh well..they have big pockets...I can get some money to shut me up...its easy for them..they've got it"....

For all of you that think "Blue should just pay them some money and keep the park open"....open your eyes...grow up...don't be blind...get real...whatever...you're out of touch.

I'm getting a little angry about all this now..best I stop my rant....

here's the update from Blue Mountain:




Downhill Mountain Bike Update
August 13, 2007
________________________________________

Hello riders,

Blue Mountain Resort’s downhill mountain bike operation is currently undergoing a period of re-evaluation. It is imperative that we, in conjunction with the Downhill Mountain Biking Community, share a common goal of reducing injuries. We have been experiencing difficulties in influencing the appropriate risk taking behavior. Therefore, as we make the transition into a more controlled access facility, the following changes have come into effect.

• Blue Mountain is working towards keeping its mountain bike participants more grounded. Effective immediately, the Progression Park and Spark-o-rama have been dismantled for the duration of the 2007 summer season. A collection of Blue Mountain downhill trails have been de-tuned, with the majority now open to ride. Trail information and consistent updates can be found on the Blue Mountain website at www.bluemountain.ca.
• Effective as of August 10, 2007, riders aged 16 and under must either be accompanied by a Blue Mountain Guide, parent or ‘green stamped’ by a Guide to ride on their own. Appropriate downhill mountain biking skills and equipment suitability are required. This program provides a more structured introduction to the sport. Full program details will be released following this period of evaluation.
• In light of the outlined changes that will occur during this period of evaluation, the Grip N Rip MTB Fest event, scheduled for August 24 – 26, 2007, has been cancelled.

As a key interest group in Blue Mountain’s downhill mountain bike operation, we welcome your feedback and invite you to become involved in a joint effort to sustain our mountain bike operation.

Your engagement and feedback with these changes is key. Saturday, September 8, 2007 at 5:30 pm, we invite you to attend a Town Hall style meeting. Details on the location and agenda will follow.

Thank you in advance for your continued support. We look forward to working with you to enhance our downhill trails and reduce risk.


If you have any questions at this point in time please inquire at:

Mountainbiking@bluemountain.ca

Intrawest was sold as a whole on August 11th, 2006 to Fortress Investment Group LLC. which is just a global investment and assett management firm.

There you go...I knew I wasn't crazy...just half crazy..

thanks for clearing that up...

Mark

Mark, isnt it past your bedtime :P

Normally...but I was a bachlor last night..wife and daughter were away...so I stayed up until 10pm

:)

jesus...party animal!

why didnt i get a call for the shenanigan's?

Well...Believe it or not....I've been married since 1999...
Most of you were probably still in public school no doubt...and my Daughter is 3 1/2 when I take her skiing..allshe wants to do is "Go Faster...and JUMP" I think its a good sign...

Sadly...I hit the big 30 in April.....

ok so i was up there today and i wandered pass an instructor talking to a group of kids and thought of this thread so i paused to hear what he was saying......it went somthing like this.........

"so recently there have been a few near deth accidents here.....befor this season it has been like two years since one of these.......so we have been looking for a way to reduce these.......now it's not people like you have been here before........it's people who are new and decided to push themselfs too far........"

then i saw something shiney and went to chase after it

now that i think about it maybe i should have stayed and listened a little longer.....haha

lame i cant believe they would close highway its not that intense of a run but its clearly the dopest run there so flowy

dude...you're sooooo OLD!

the holdings firm is called fortress.  its a private equity hedge fund. 

im pretty sure they bought all of intrawest and all its resorts.  not just blue mountain.

Listen here....you aren't far behind....lol...not far AT ALL.......

lol...I may not be far behind, but I'll never catch up to you !!! :)

But I'll ALWAYS make it look good...

and my heart will give out at a young age..you will surpass me...guaranteed!

was it an outrageously tall blond guy? if so that is rick. good guy.

i went yesterday riding. Full armour mandatory. I lied that i was 17. Autobahn is like a fucking wheelchair accesable path as i think i mentioned before. Horrible

full armour for everyone?

if so, 05 Norco Sasquatch for sale. will include marzocchi drop-off triple along with drop-off 130

Haha

full armour will not prevent more injuries. i anything it will give kids the feeling of invincibility and more of them will go down.

from what i've heard, blue mountain is including injuries from the O-Cup race in their tally. wtf? you think people still would've been hurt had they not been pinning it off a 5ft drop over rough boulders?

fuck it, im getting my money back on my pass and buying one to either camp fortune or calabogie for next season. i hate to abandon blue but they've got a world of resources at their disposal and they're too blind to see it.

they did knocnk down the lips in their park they wanted to make the park more family frieldny

Anyone under the age of 16 armor is mandatory. Thats why i lied. I know the patrollers and apparently next year theres gonna be some crazy system... like there gonna rebuild some shit. But its a theory.

Irony.

Just was reading Mountain Bike Action the other day, and they had a section devoted to bike parks around the country and Blue Mountain was mentioned for their downhill and berms and stunts.

the berms are still there

not a fan of the new routing on the upper part of autobahn or the tape on r-shore.

for some reason i ate shit left right and centre on sunday so now im dealing with a black and blue bicep, and a road rashed elbow and shoulder. it was also the first time i actually put my helmet to use.


but on the bright side EMBRYO IS BACK!!!!!!
so smooth, so flowy it's orgasmic

So is Blue starting to rebuild the trails and features?

no

some of the trails became super fast and dangerous when they pulled the jumps and such out so they need to be re-routed to slow you down

holy shit dude are you serious??what the fuck is the point of downhilling with out any terrain..there going to losse big bucks

I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHH ITS SO SICK!.

Anyways, youve probably seen me riding. I have a Silver cove playmate with pink stickers, a troy lee helmet and ill usually wear shorts and armour or jeans.

yeah you usually rock the Tournament jersey.


i've got a grey sasquatch with sometimes drop-off triples, red/white/black giro remedy and for a bit was wearing white/grey thor moto shorts

haha yeah sometimes i do rock that jersey. well take some laps next time were both at the hill

last time i checked, intrawest no longer has the controlling share of blue mountain,

uuhhhh...ya..if you READ the entire thread...we've gone over that....

Yup.

Intrawest is still the owner of Blue Mountain, only all of Intrawest is owned by an Equity/Assett Management group.

steve...how'd you stumble into the ontario forums for this one?

sure

im off to montreal/bromont for Expo Cycle this weekend but next weekend barring any major mishaps with my bike unlike last weekend (bent front rim at c-wood djs) i should be there

Haha, living so close to ontario, and being I go to MSLM and Blue a few times over the course of the winter, I keep an eye on the Ontario regionals.

Im going to keep my eye on you...

Dude, I'm an hour and a half from Toronto.

:)

Im an hour and 1/2 east of TO

So we are likely about the same distance overall from blue...

Here nor there... Just hope this liability crap deosn't roll over directly to the terrain park and influence things negatively.

And I hope they can figure out a way to get the features back at Blue for all you Downhill/freeride bikers.

I'm a pussy singletrack XC rider, but I wish you guys the best in getting your trails back up and built.

im not worried. things should be back to normal next year. right now it's a re-evaluation of the program and their main concern right now is how to get riders to be more cautious of what they ride, look before you leap if you will.

That sounds fair enough.

There are too many people in both biking and snow-sports that ride well beyond their limits.

im 2 1/2 from blue

3 hours give or take depending on the Border crossing times for me.

I come up once or twice a winter to Blue or MSLM to ride an epic park, and Holiday Valley 30 minutes away, despite having loads of cash, does a piss-poor job with parks.

Yo we need to rendezvous that shit this winter dude.