4 Buckle boot vs 3 Buckle

Whatever feels best to you. I did 4 buckle forever (2 buckle SPK for a few years lul) and switched to 3 buckle dalbellos like 10 years ago. The ankle buckle is pretty solid IMO but understand the traditional way with 4 buckles is technically "better" but its really whatever you like best.

Both have there place in my opinion. I’ll ski an overlap boot for nearly everything but for park you just can’t beat that linear 3 piece flex in my opinion.

tomPietrowskiBoth have there place in my opinion. I’ll ski an overlap boot for nearly everything but for park you just can’t beat that linear 3 piece flex in my opinion.

Enlighten me, genuinely curious why people like the linear flex of 3 piece for park? for landings? for the pop? what is it?

I've skied dabellos and a lilttle FT and I could never go back. when I skied the dabello 3 peice "130" I hated the feeling of being able to bottom out my boot on landings. I feel like I would bottom out my achilles before the boot, that was a gross feeling. I want my boot to catch me from too much dorsiflexion. and they just were a little sloppy all around even while having a tight shell fit

Maybe if there is a 95mm last 150 flex K2/FT/Dabello I would try again lmao

deadhead420Enlighten me, genuinely curious why people like the linear flex of 3 piece for park? for landings? for the pop? what is it?

I've skied dabellos and a lilttle FT and I could never go back. when I skied the dabello 3 peice "130" I hated the feeling of being able to bottom out my boot on landings. I feel like I would bottom out my achilles before the boot, that was a gross feeling. I want my boot to catch me from too much dorsiflexion. and they just were a little sloppy all around even while having a tight shell fit

Maybe if there is a 95mm last 150 flex K2/FT/Dabello I would try again lmao

Do you have no leg muscles? Boots aren't supposed to absorb all of your landing lol I think you're misunderstanding what flex is for...

Anything but boa lol

I started in FT for 5 years, switched to 4 buckle Freeride boots for 10 years but very recently went back to 3 buckle (AR1) and I don’t see myself ever going back to 4 buckle.

Mainly the flex feels much smoother. I always felt that the flex of my 4 buckle was really dependent on how I buckled the top buckles and it felt different every day. The middle buckle heel lock is a game changer too. Haven’t had a fit like that in a while.

eheathDo you have no leg muscles? Boots aren't supposed to absorb all of your landing lol I think you're misunderstanding what flex is for...

Bruh. Obviously not on average landings, but when I fuck up and land too far forward especially freeriding I want my boot to stay composed for the next turn and not over flex and bottom out. Landing on my shins will always beat landing on my heels

or what about this video
https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/1105608/--YouTubeif Thall was wearing stiffer boots in this clip he probably wouldn’t have snapped his Achilles. He more or less claims that in his interview

deadhead420Bruh. Obviously not on average landings, but when I fuck up and land too far forward especially freeriding I want my boot to stay composed for the next turn and not over flex and bottom out. Landing on my shins will always beat landing on my heels

or what about this video
https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/1105608/--YouTubeif Thall was wearing stiffer boots in this clip he probably wouldn’t have snapped his Achilles. He more or less claims that in his interview

Don't take what I said toooo seriously :) lol people think that a stiffer boot = better and its just not the case, i was just poking fun at that trope. If you're pushing the limits of the human body, a stiffer boot probably would help.

First boot I ever owned was a head mojo - four buckle. Next two boots were three buckle Nordica Ace of Spades. I loved the spades but the second pair I kept blowing top buckle as my skiing progressed - hitting bigger jumps, dropping bigger cliffs... My boot fitter refused to keep repairing the top buckles, insisting I go four buckles, so I swapped to Lange Rx130 and haven't gone back.

Weird, a boot fitter knows what they're talking about...

deadhead420Enlighten me, genuinely curious why people like the linear flex of 3 piece for park? for landings? for the pop? what is it?

I've skied dabellos and a lilttle FT and I could never go back. when I skied the dabello 3 peice "130" I hated the feeling of being able to bottom out my boot on landings. I feel like I would bottom out my achilles before the boot, that was a gross feeling. I want my boot to catch me from too much dorsiflexion. and they just were a little sloppy all around even while having a tight shell fit

Maybe if there is a 95mm last 150 flex K2/FT/Dabello I would try again lmao

I like the analogy of 2 piece = Sports Car suspension and 3 piece = SUV/Truck suspension.

imo 3 piece flex excels in variable terrain like park or anything besides groomers, basically

deadhead420Enlighten me, genuinely curious why people like the linear flex of 3 piece for park? for landings? for the pop? what is it?

I've skied dabellos and a lilttle FT and I could never go back. when I skied the dabello 3 peice "130" I hated the feeling of being able to bottom out my boot on landings. I feel like I would bottom out my achilles before the boot, that was a gross feeling. I want my boot to catch me from too much dorsiflexion. and they just were a little sloppy all around even while having a tight shell fit

Maybe if there is a 95mm last 150 flex K2/FT/Dabello I would try again lmao

So what our athletes mainly say is it’s the consistent flex which makes sense. 3piece boots have a much more linear flex than an overlap boot. What that means is that the stiffness when the cuff begins to move will be basically the same as at the end of the flex. An overlap boot in comparison will start soft but then really stiffen up as you go further into the flex.

For the park (and I generally exclude pipe in this) having that consistent flex allows our athletes to use there legs much more in landings and have more control on where they are balancing their weight in the landing. For example if you know a boot is the same flex all the way through you can anticipate how much you need to flex your knees and ankles into a landing and where to put your weight to balance. In an overlap boot with the flex stiffening suddenly it can throw them off as they can not get as deep into the flex as they expect and they can be thrown off balance. For the most part the very best are not using the flex of the boot to support them on landings as much as using it to help control the landing.

I probably explained that badly but basically a linear flex is preferred over a progressive flex by most of our athletes.

But this is generally not the case out of the park. For everything else the dampness and stiffening is really preferred. That is why we continue to offer both options as there really is no right or wrong but just different styles which certain people prefer.

Is the flex of 3 peice boots less thermo-reactive than an overlap boot? Is that a part of the consistency that your athletes report? Like WorldCup ski racers will use different boots for different air temperatures. I could imagine for World Cup slopestyle that boot consistency between 0°F Colorado type shit and a 40°F big air setup in a city would be major

tomPietrowskiSo what our athletes mainly say is it’s the consistent flex which makes sense. 3piece boots have a much more linear flex than an overlap boot. What that means is that the stiffness when the cuff begins to move will be basically the same as at the end of the flex. An overlap boot in comparison will start soft but then really stiffen up as you go further into the flex.

For the park (and I generally exclude pipe in this) having that consistent flex allows our athletes to use there legs much more in landings and have more control on where they are balancing their weight in the landing. For example if you know a boot is the same flex all the way through you can anticipate how much you need to flex your knees and ankles into a landing and where to put your weight to balance. In an overlap boot with the flex stiffening suddenly it can throw them off as they can not get as deep into the flex as they expect and they can be thrown off balance. For the most part the very best are not using the flex of the boot to support them on landings as much as using it to help control the landing.

I probably explained that badly but basically a linear flex is preferred over a progressive flex by most of our athletes.

But this is generally not the case out of the park. For everything else the dampness and stiffening is really preferred. That is why we continue to offer both options as there really is no right or wrong but just different styles which certain people prefer.

deadhead420Is the flex of 3 peice boots less thermo-reactive than an overlap boot? Is that a part of the consistency that your athletes report? Like WorldCup ski racers will use different boots for different air temperatures. I could imagine for World Cup slopestyle that boot consistency between 0°F Colorado type shit and a 40°F big air setup in a city would be major

Well temp stability could be easily resolved by changing the tongue out, which is another big benefit of a 3 piece boot, but no most our guys don’t mess with the flex of the boot and will stick to one flex for everything. We use pebax for the tongue which is much more temp stable than pu so the boots don’t suffer from temp changes all that much anyway.

tomPietrowskiWell temp stability could be easily resolved by changing the tongue out, which is another big benefit of a 3 piece boot, but no most our guys don’t mess with the flex of the boot and will stick to one flex for everything. We use pebax for the tongue which is much more temp stable than pu so the boots don’t suffer from temp changes all that much anyway.

That's cool I didn't know pebax was used in the k2 tounges

I know pebax is becoming more common in backcountry stuff but has it ever been used a low volume and stiff overlap boot? The lack of temp stablity in my PU race boots is the only thing I don't like about them

deadhead420I know pebax is becoming more common in backcountry stuff but has it ever been used a low volume and stiff overlap boot? The lack of temp stablity in my PU race boots is the only thing I don't like about them

Around 2009-ish Atomic made a version of the then CS 130 in Pebax. It was a lot lighter, more temperature stable, but the flex pattern just wasn't what our team was looking for. Given the mechanics of the shell & cuff, making a full overlap boot out of Pebax just feels odd (in my opinion).

Flash forward to 2025 - the new Remedy 130 is made with a brand new temperature stable PU that we call Formula plastics. It has a far more consistent & predictable flex and feel across a wide variety of temperatures. It's probably most notable when things get warm and slushy - the boot stays solid and doesn't feel like a marshmallow. Jonathan at Blister has a lot to say about this exact topic in his flash review of the boot.

deadhead420That's cool I didn't know pebax was used in the k2 tounges

I know pebax is becoming more common in backcountry stuff but has it ever been used a low volume and stiff overlap boot? The lack of temp stablity in my PU race boots is the only thing I don't like about them

So temp stability is only one of the reasons we use pebax. Perhaps the bigger reason is the rebound from pebax. Pebax has a very springy feel with a fast rebound. We tested a number of materials and the feedback from our athletes was they liked the pop they got from the pebax tongue.

We have used it in a number of overlap cuffs for this reason too but there are some disadvantages too. Your example of a race boot for example. Those boots want to feel damp so using a material with a very fast rebound just does not suit them. You are basically going away from what makes the boots feel good in the first place.

Another disadvantage of using it on the lower shell is the durability. It’s fine we find to use it in tongues and cuffs but using it in the lower shell leads to durability issues especially around the heel and toe lugs which can get beaten up really quickly.

**This post was edited on Feb 9th 2025 at 10:03:58am