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April, 2024

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Boot flex from brand to brand

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Voyage86
Posts: 806 - Karma: 2,929
So i’ve decided i need to get out of my roxa R3 UL 110s that have never been exactly right. I like the flex on them but I was curious to try a 120 flex boot see what was up. I tried on the K2 recon 120 to get a taste of boa as well and wow, these things feel like noodles compared to my roxas. So im wondering what brands are know to be softer or stiffer vs the others? is K2 generally softer? or, is Roxa generally stiffer? also my Roxas are three piece while the K2s are two piece, is there but variation between the construction styles?

and within K2 more specifically, does it vary from model to model? like will the mindbender 120 boa fell the same as the recon 120 boa? i want a mindbender boot, the recon was the only thing available to try on for me in store. do i need a mindbender 130 to compare more to my 110 flex roxas??
thanks

**This thread was edited on Mar 6th 2024 at 12:40:44am

**This thread was edited on Mar 6th 2024 at 12:41:03am
Mar 6 2024 12:39AM
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Voyage86
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@tomPietrowski
Mar 6 2024 12:41AM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,046
In my experience 3 piece can feel stiffer when you just try them on. My wallisch boots which are 100 ell really stiff but when you ski them as the flex is linear rather than progressive they don’t have that ramp up. So a 120 to me still skis stiffer. But liner plays a big roll and the 120 recon or mindbender uses our precision fit liner which is designed to be a little softer and more forgiving. The130 uses the power fit which is much stiffer or the new 140’s use the power wrap boa which is even stiffer. If you like the shell fit of the 120 recon te good thing is the stiffer mindbender will feel the same.
Mar 6 2024 1:44AM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 2289 - Karma: 14,307
Why not get the 130? I’ve been nothing but happy. As mentioned the upgraded liner is a nice touch too.


Mar 6 2024 10:50AM
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Voyage86
Posts: 806 - Karma: 2,929
PartyBullshiitWhy not get the 130? I’ve been nothing but happy. As mentioned the upgraded liner is a nice touch too.




might be to stiff for me? I really don’t know, i’ve never been in anything stiffer than 110. i’m in a predicament because i don’t have access to try on these boots. but i can’t afford the msrp so i need to buy em on sale, which they are rn. i guess the obvious thing to do would be to get the 130 if i though the 120 was to stiff right?
Mar 6 2024 11:41AM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 2289 - Karma: 14,307
Voyage86might be too stiff for me? I really don’t know, i’ve never been in anything stiffer than 110. i’m in a predicament because i don’t have access to try on these boots. but i can’t afford the msrp so i need to buy em on sale, which they are rn. i guess the obvious thing to do would be to get the 130 if i though the 120 was to stiff right?


Big sale $445 shipped us. Prices are CAD. this is who I ordered mine from onsale last year from.

My other boot which is a 50/50 hybrid is a 110. It’s a rossignol specifically. While you can for sure feel the flex differences I’m not suddenly in bricks that have no flex anymore. The 130 recon I don’t feel is as stiff as other 130’s in the same segment. That’s not a bad thing as they work great for me. Just something to consider. If you thought the 120 was too soft the 130 could be your sweet spot. Unless you’re a monster and need the 140
team.
Mar 6 2024 11:50AM
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BallClapper
Posts: 1540 - Karma: 3,275
PartyBullshiitWhy not get the 130? I’ve been nothing but happy. As mentioned the upgraded liner is a nice touch too.




Welp. You got yourself a big ol belly from all that gnarly beer shit.
Mar 6 2024 8:49PM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 2289 - Karma: 14,307
BallClapperWelp. You got yourself a big ol belly from all that gnarly beer shit.


Zero belly. Take care of yourself and it will take care of you.
Mar 6 2024 11:08PM
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mrk127
Posts: 1740 - Karma: 15,748
Is this going to be a resort boot? Or strictly a backcountry boot? I would really discourage riding the mindbender hard in resort or really any touring boot. I had a buddy blow up his mindbender 130s shockingly quickly. Unless you are a blue square type skier, then a touring boot is probably perfect.
Mar 8 2024 10:03PM
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Voyage86
Posts: 806 - Karma: 2,929
mrk127Is this going to be a resort boot? Or strictly a backcountry boot? I would really discourage riding the mindbender hard in resort or really any touring boot. I had a buddy blow up his mindbender 130s shockingly quickly. Unless you are a blue square type skier, then a touring boot is probably perfect.


this is going to be a daily one boot quiver for mostly resort and the occasional tour, i have been riding a resort UL boot with no tech toe in it for the past 3 years and have no issues. i’m really not worried about your durability concerns, everything i’ve seen on them says they are durable and ski just as good as any of the best resort free ride boots. i’ve also seen people be very satisfied with K2 warrantying the boot and sending a new one.
Mar 8 2024 10:58PM
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mrk127
Posts: 1740 - Karma: 15,748
Voyage86this is going to be a daily one boot quiver for mostly resort and the occasional tour, i have been riding a resort UL boot with no tech toe in it for the past 3 years and have no issues. i’m really not worried about your durability concerns, everything i’ve seen on them says they are durable and ski just as good as any of the best resort free ride boots. i’ve also seen people be very satisfied with K2 warrantying the boot and sending a new one.

I can guarantee that boot or any touring will not ski like a riveted cuff, 2 peice, PU, “best” resort boot… for now, excited to see what the engineers cook up in the coming years to improve touring boots.

but I can second that K2 has a pretty damm good warranty. My girlfriend absolutely blew up her k2s on tiny 15ft jump and they had a brand new pair of boots at her door within a week. The boots shouldn’t have ever broken like that but at least the warranty was quick

Mar 8 2024 11:12PM
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BRsnow
Posts: 28 - Karma: 104
I went from a 100 salmon max quest to a 120 Lange xt3 recently. I can tell a difference, the Salomon was much easier to flex but prefer the current boot.
Mar 8 2024 11:14PM
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Voyage86
Posts: 806 - Karma: 2,929
mrk127I can guarantee that boot or any touring will not ski like a riveted cuff, 2 peice, PU, “best” resort boot… for now, excited to see what the engineers cook up in the coming years to improve touring boots.

but I can second that K2 has a pretty damm good warranty. My girlfriend absolutely blew up her k2s on tiny 15ft jump and they had a brand new pair of boots at her door within a week. The boots shouldn’t have ever broken like that but at least the warranty was quick



every review i’ve read has said they ski fantastically and hold up like any free ride boot and all of these reviews were written by much better and more experienced skiers than me. i’m sure you are right and it doesn’t ski to 100% of a true inbounds boot but i’m also certain that i would not notice a difference at all between it and it’s inbounds counter part and I and 95% of people riding the boot won’t ever find it’s limits. im a good free ride skier but this boot will be plenty of boot for me. i’m not worried about that aspect.
Mar 8 2024 11:38PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4617 - Karma: 16,033
PartyBullshiitWhy not get the 130? I’ve been nothing but happy. As mentioned the upgraded liner is a nice touch too.




Why not get some pants my man?
Mar 9 2024 12:06AM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 2289 - Karma: 14,307
Voyage86every review i’ve read has said they ski fantastically and hold up like any free ride boot and all of these reviews were written by much better and more experienced skiers than me. i’m sure you are right and it doesn’t ski to 100% of a true inbounds boot but i’m also certain that i would not notice a difference at all between it and it’s inbounds counter part and I and 95% of people riding the boot won’t ever find it’s limits. im a good free ride skier but this boot will be plenty of boot for me. i’m not worried about that aspect.


You see the sale over at Corbetts. End of season blow out on the k2 boa. Now’s the time to buy. Recon 130 boa under $400 shipped. Mindbender 130boa under $500 shipped
Mar 9 2024 2:07AM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 2289 - Karma: 14,307
Non_State_ActorWhy not get some pants my man?

South Florida. There’s only like 5 days a year pants are needed.
Mar 9 2024 2:07AM
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Voyage86
Posts: 806 - Karma: 2,929
PartyBullshiitYou see the sale over at Corbetts. End of season blow out on the k2 boa. Now’s the time to buy. Recon 130 boa under $400 shipped. Mindbender 130boa under $500 shipped


it’s a real shame that all purchases of on sale items are final in corbetts. i’ve got both the mindbender 120 and 130 coming in the mail from evo and once i figure out which one works best i’ll likely return them and try to find the best price so i’m hoping corbetts doesn’t sell out.
Mar 9 2024 10:42AM
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KilaTsunami
Posts: 2532 - Karma: 24,068
mrk127I can guarantee that boot or any touring will not ski like a riveted cuff, 2 peice, PU, “best” resort boot… for now, excited to see what the engineers cook up in the coming years to improve touring boots.

but I can second that K2 has a pretty damm good warranty. My girlfriend absolutely blew up her k2s on tiny 15ft jump and they had a brand new pair of boots at her door within a week. The boots shouldn’t have ever broken like that but at least the warranty was quick



I'm baffled by the sheer amount of K2 explosions this year. Hey @tomPietrowski , this K2 shirt that the sales rep gave me isnt gonna explode while im wearing it right? lol
Mar 9 2024 11:50AM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 2289 - Karma: 14,307
Voyage86it’s a real shame that all purchases of on sale items are final in corbetts. i’ve got both the mindbender 120 and 130 coming in the mail from evo and once i figure out which one works best i’ll likely return them and try to find the best price so i’m hoping corbetts doesn’t sell out.

Didn’t you say you tried on the recon? Fit between the mindbender and recon are the same size wise. If you knew your recon size you knew your mindbender size.
Mar 9 2024 11:56AM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,046
KilaTsunamiI'm baffled by the sheer amount of K2 explosions this year. Hey @tomPietrowski , this K2 shirt that the sales rep gave me isnt gonna explode while im wearing it right? lol

You are seeing boots from lots of different years remember. That anthem is from 2020 for example. We never want to see failures and we keep track of all of them and our overall warranty rate has dropped year on year. But any failure is never good however it can have a silver lining. We learned from what happened in some cases with the buckle boots and this helped us update the boa shell. It has also helped us identify issues in the injection process which is helping both k2 and Dalbello boot production moving forward. It sucks that any boot would break and I will say we have had some spectacular breaks but we also know our current boots are failing at a much lower rate so although you will no doubt continue to see broken boots posted online I believe the ratio of new to old will continue to shrink.
Mar 9 2024 12:15PM
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Voyage86
Posts: 806 - Karma: 2,929
PartyBullshiitDidn’t you say you tried on the recon? Fit between the mindbender and recon are the same size wise. If you knew your recon size you knew your mindbender size.


ya i know my size but i’m going to decide which flex is right for me.
Mar 9 2024 1:20PM
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BallClapper
Posts: 1540 - Karma: 3,275
Semi related question. I'm 170lbs and ski an atomic hawx ultra 120 xtd and am absolutely squashing the shit out of it on big hits. Anything I can do to stiffen it up? Booster strap? Was thinking of getting one anyway as even with the top buckles cranked my calf has some pingpong action. Can stick my hand down the front of my shin in the boot.
Mar 9 2024 1:30PM
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Voyage86
Posts: 806 - Karma: 2,929
BallClapperSemi related question. I'm 170lbs and ski an atomic hawx ultra 120 xtd and am absolutely squashing the shit out of it on big hits. Anything I can do to stiffen it up? Booster strap? Was thinking of getting one anyway as even with the top buckles cranked my calf has some pingpong action. Can stick my hand down the front of my shin in the boot.


the best way to truly stiffen them up would be to get a stiffer liner, you should start with a booster strap though and a see where that’s gets you.
Mar 9 2024 1:32PM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 2289 - Karma: 14,307
Voyage86ya i know my size but i’m going to decide which flex is right for me.

If you’re having issues with the 120 recon the mindbender will be identical. 130ftw
Mar 9 2024 1:32PM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 2289 - Karma: 14,307
BallClapperSemi related question. I'm 170lbs and ski an atomic hawx ultra 120 xtd and am absolutely squashing the shit out of it on big hits. Anything I can do to stiffen it up? Booster strap? Was thinking of getting one anyway as even with the top buckles cranked my calf has some pingpong action. Can stick my hand down the front of my shin in the boot.

Zipfits are your only option, a booster strap isn’t going to stiffen the boot up enough if you’re legitimately crushing them already.




or buy a 130 through the Corbetts sale atm.
Mar 9 2024 1:34PM
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BallClapper
Posts: 1540 - Karma: 3,275
PartyBullshiitor buy a 130 through the Corbetts sale atm.


I work in the industry. With my recent purchase of sender free 110's one of my buddy's is trying to get me to buy race boots.
Mar 9 2024 1:37PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,046
BallClapperSemi related question. I'm 170lbs and ski an atomic hawx ultra 120 xtd and am absolutely squashing the shit out of it on big hits. Anything I can do to stiffen it up? Booster strap? Was thinking of getting one anyway as even with the top buckles cranked my calf has some pingpong action. Can stick my hand down the front of my shin in the boot.

A liner which better fills and stops the shell collapsing is what you need. A booster strap won’t do anything really as it’s the lower shell collapsing which is the issue. You want a fairly stiff probably mid to high volume liner which will help support the lower shell. My personal fav is a sofas foam injection liner but they are not cheap and you need someone who knows how to inject them.
Mar 9 2024 1:57PM
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Voyage86
Posts: 806 - Karma: 2,929
PartyBullshiitIf you’re having issues with the 120 recon the mindbender will be identical. 130ftw


i’m not having issues, i tried the 120 recon on one foot for 10 mins in store and they felt slightly soft. however i need to properly test them side by side with my current boot and with the 130 to figure out how soft they actuly are and how they feel overall vs boa liner of the 130. it’s a no brainer to order them and try them on side by side for me. i need to get this right.

**This post was edited on Mar 9th 2024 at 2:13:16pm
Mar 9 2024 2:11PM
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BallClapper
Posts: 1540 - Karma: 3,275
tomPietrowskiA liner which better fills and stops the shell collapsing is what you need. A booster strap won’t do anything really as it’s the lower shell collapsing which is the issue. You want a fairly stiff probably mid to high volume liner which will help support the lower shell. My personal fav is a sofas foam injection liner but they are not cheap and you need someone who knows how to inject them.


Sidas thermo crt?
Mar 9 2024 4:03PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,046
BallClapperSidas thermo crt?


https://sundanceskishop.com/products/sidas-pu-classic-race-foam-liners?variant=31745025343586&currency=CAD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=16003676294&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6_awyIzohAMVtszCBB3alQMhEAQYASABEgIyhfD_BwE

those are the ones I use in our new lv shell. Sodas pu race liner.
Mar 9 2024 4:15PM
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BallClapper
Posts: 1540 - Karma: 3,275
tomPietrowskihttps://sundanceskishop.com/products/sidas-pu-classic-race-foam-liners?variant=31745025343586&currency=CAD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=16003676294&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6_awyIzohAMVtszCBB3alQMhEAQYASABEgIyhfD_BwE

those are the ones I use in our new lv shell. Sodas pu race liner.


Auto correct is a bitch. 🤣
Mar 9 2024 4:26PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4617 - Karma: 16,033
tomPietrowskihttps://sundanceskishop.com/products/sidas-pu-classic-race-foam-liners?variant=31745025343586&currency=CAD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=16003676294&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6_awyIzohAMVtszCBB3alQMhEAQYASABEgIyhfD_BwE

those are the ones I use in our new lv shell. Sodas pu race liner.


If you had to use a foam injection liner in your "low volume" shell are you pushing really hard to make an actual low volume shell? There doesn't seem to be much out there outside of race boots.
Mar 9 2024 4:32PM
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BallClapper
Posts: 1540 - Karma: 3,275
tomPietrowskihttps://sundanceskishop.com/products/sidas-pu-classic-race-foam-liners?variant=31745025343586&currency=CAD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=16003676294&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6_awyIzohAMVtszCBB3alQMhEAQYASABEgIyhfD_BwE

those are the ones I use in our new lv shell. Sodas pu race liner.


What about something from intuition? Or for a bit extra Zipfit?
Mar 9 2024 4:33PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,046
Non_State_ActorIf you had to use a foam injection liner in your "low volume" shell are you pushing really hard to make an actual low volume shell? There doesn't seem to be much out there outside of race boots.

Our sample size is one size bigger then my measured size so I use it to help take up the extra space of the oversized shell. But I also use foam injection liners in all my personal boots as in my opinion they are the best you can get.
Mar 9 2024 4:35PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,046
BallClapperWhat about something from intuition? Or for a bit extra Zipfit?


One of the higher volume race liners from sofas could work. Zip fit I’m not as familiar with really and I have only skied the Fischer version.
Mar 9 2024 4:36PM
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BallClapper
Posts: 1540 - Karma: 3,275
tomPietrowskiOne of the higher volume race liners from sofas could work. Zip fit I’m not as familiar with really and I have only skied the Fischer version.


AAAAAAA. "Sodas" Is pissing me off.
Mar 9 2024 5:05PM
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mikem
Posts: 874 - Karma: 7,621
Boot flex is like dick size. Everyone makes up a number and it never is true.
Mar 9 2024 11:36PM
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mrk127
Posts: 1740 - Karma: 15,748
BallClapperI work in the industry. With my recent purchase of sender free 110's one of my buddy's is trying to get me to buy race boots.


Race boots are the way, especially if you have narrow feet. They are so much more durable than basically every other boot out there. And they just ski so damm good and responsive once you get used to the stiffness and tight fit
Mar 11 2024 1:12PM
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