What Freeride Charger to buy? (Woodsman vs Countach vs Sender Free)

DingletronWhat’s up


looking for some advice on my next pair of skis. 5’9” 160 lbs, pretty strong skier skiing primarily in the Front Range and San Juan’s. I want skis that can ski steep variable shit fast with confidence, while still being able to spin, potentially take into the park for a lap, and use in tight trees. (East Wall / Steep Gullies at A bay, Palymra peak at Telluride).

i currently ski ON3P Jeffrey 108s in 181 and love the dampness, stability, and burly feeling of ON3Ps and like how easy they are to spin and butter, but have found on super steep, big, crunchy lines they get pretty chattery and don’t let you drive the shovels very hard. Also terrible on ice.

ive been eyeing the Woodsman’s, seem like they should have been the ski I bought originally.


also been seeing a bunch of the Moment team using the Countachs for similar skiing, so very intrigued.


had the deathwish 112s, far far too soft for my style of skiing


others I’m considering:

Rossi Sender Free 110
Dynastar M Free
Moment Wildcat 116
ON3P Wrenegade 108
Woodsman 108
Faction Dancer
Black Crow Anima

im looking at widths between 100-108, but also have a pow ski shaped hole in my quiver , so willing to snag the Wildcats or Animas if it makes sense.

can any of you beasts chime in if you’ve used any of these skis or have suggestions on others? Thanks!

**This thread was edited on Feb 20th 2024 at 11:26:25pm

Wildcat shares an ash/poplar core like the DW. Stiffness is going to be similar so if the dw was too soft you’ll likely find the wildcat too soft.



the Countach is beech/poplar. It’s a decent amount stiffer. I’d point you towards the countach between those three staying in that general width.

Of the skis ive skied:
1. Rossi Sender Free 110
2. Faction Dancer
3. Dynastar M Free


"drive the shovels" and jeffreys do not mix. Of the above, sender free will feel more playful than the dancer but less capable of fully opening up. M free will feel like the lighter and looser vs of sender free.

And you can hit park on any ski, but like I'd just get a park ski too, no point in putting edge cracks in your metal charger ski that you didn't want to detune.

mikemOf the skis ive skied:
1. Rossi Sender Free 110
2. Faction Dancer
3. Dynastar M Free


"drive the shovels" and jeffreys do not mix. Of the above, sender free will feel more playful than the dancer but less capable of fully opening up. M free will feel like the lighter and looser vs of sender free.

And you can hit park on any ski, but like I'd just get a park ski too, no point in putting edge cracks in your metal charger ski that you didn't want to detune.

Thanks for the input. Agreed, I’ve been forcing the Jeff’s into a ski style they’re not meant for. The Rossis look really fun, worried about durability compared to ON3Ps

DingletronThanks for the input. Agreed, I’ve been forcing the Jeff’s into a ski style they’re not meant for. The Rossis look really fun, worried about durability compared to ON3Ps

its a new ski this year so cant speak to durability, seems pretty solid. but durability on a ski, we on ns have accepted its stupid.

All park skis require a side purchase of west systems gflex 650 epoxy. And freeride skis require just like 10 mins of research, and then landing not on rocks too hard and too dumb.

based on feel/ski, i actually think the rossi will hold up. top sheet chipping seems to be a thing but who cares. I've seen questionable QC on dancers/dictators but overall they will hold an edge better and bust crud/moguls meaner. but at a price of freestyle.

Head kore 105, 115 if you want damper/stiffer. Light and nimble through dense trees but really come alive once you hit 40mph and can take even the burliest of freeride lines. Compared to my wrenegades they’re much less floppy and noodly in bad conditions. My favorite thing to do on em is point the shovels downhill on a steep face and see how fast I can get going over the moguls, haven’t found a speed limit yet. I’ve mounted mine -2 behind rec and they’re great ridden forwards but bite a bit switch until you’re used to em

Seems like you are asking a lot of one ski. Going more chargy freeride ski you will end up with something that isn't going to spin as well, a bit more work in the park, and a bit more cumbersome in tight trees.

I had a similar experience with my Jeff 100 in 181 on steep chopped up terrain and on ice. Yet, the 100 width wasn't necessarily going to excel in those conditions. I grabbed a pair of the DW 104, which from what Moment and others have said are probably in between the Countach and Wildcat in terms of stiffness (Countach > WC (full) > DW 104 > WC 108 or something like that).

If you are fine with. the loss in versatility, I'd think the Countach would be an awesome choice. The Woodsman could be great as well, but I think the Countach is going to be stiffer and a bit more chargy. Another brand Made in America brand I'll throw out is Praxis. I have their Praxis MVP 108 in 184 (measures 181). It probably slots in between the Countach and the WC and Woodsman in terms of stiffness. I was just down in Kirkwood two weeks ago when they were getting freshies and was all smiles. Dropping off the ridgeline I felt I could really attack the steeps when the snow was fresh, but also when it was getting tracked out and more variable. Yet, I am also easily able to do spins, pop off stuff at slower speeds, ski switch, etc.

If you are worried about quality control and durability, then opt for a Made in America brand (and also just to support those companies). I literally landed on a boulder and felt it stab into my MVP 108. Looked down and all I had was a few scratches. Hear similar of ON3P and Moment.

colerichardmyersSeems like you are asking a lot of one ski. Going more chargy freeride ski you will end up with something that isn't going to spin as well, a bit more work in the park, and a bit more cumbersome in tight trees.

I had a similar experience with my Jeff 100 in 181 on steep chopped up terrain and on ice. Yet, the 100 width wasn't necessarily going to excel in those conditions. I grabbed a pair of the DW 104, which from what Moment and others have said are probably in between the Countach and Wildcat in terms of stiffness (Countach > WC (full) > DW 104 > WC 108 or something like that).

If you are fine with. the loss in versatility, I'd think the Countach would be an awesome choice. The Woodsman could be great as well, but I think the Countach is going to be stiffer and a bit more chargy. Another brand Made in America brand I'll throw out is Praxis. I have their Praxis MVP 108 in 184 (measures 181). It probably slots in between the Countach and the WC and Woodsman in terms of stiffness. I was just down in Kirkwood two weeks ago when they were getting freshies and was all smiles. Dropping off the ridgeline I felt I could really attack the steeps when the snow was fresh, but also when it was getting tracked out and more variable. Yet, I am also easily able to do spins, pop off stuff at slower speeds, ski switch, etc.

If you are worried about quality control and durability, then opt for a Made in America brand (and also just to support those companies). I literally landed on a boulder and felt it stab into my MVP 108. Looked down and all I had was a few scratches. Hear similar of ON3P and Moment.

Countach and deathwish 104 share the same stiffer core. They’re both going to be stiffer than all the WC and the DW 112.

poplar/beech in the Countach dw 104.

Ash/poplar in the wc line up and dw 112.

countach>dw 104>wc lineup and dw 112

Currently on the Woodsman 110 from last year. I love them. They can charge through everything big mountain, and I even rip them in the park sometimes. I've got a few vids on here and youtube with em. But in terms of chatter, I've never had an issue straight-lining and slicing through chunder. I'd highly reccommend

**This post was edited on Feb 21st 2024 at 11:07:58am

brownetownHead kore 105, 115 if you want damper/stiffer. Light and nimble through dense trees but really come alive once you hit 40mph and can take even the burliest of freeride lines. Compared to my wrenegades they’re much less floppy and noodly in bad conditions. My favorite thing to do on em is point the shovels downhill on a steep face and see how fast I can get going over the moguls, haven’t found a speed limit yet. I’ve mounted mine -2 behind rec and they’re great ridden forwards but bite a bit switch until you’re used to em

Head kore is a dogshit ski

iDontHitRailsHead kore is a dogshit ski

Blistering counter argument, you’re so right

Really appreciate all the input everyone. Gonna try and get on my friends Woodsman’s, and also try and demo some Countachs, MVPs and Sender Frees when I’m out in Squaw, those all seem pretty ideal, albeit pretty different shapes.

i been really liking my m frees recently and I don't understand the dampness from the jeffs. id think they'd have quite a bit of playfulness in them. will say the dynastars arent the poppiest ski, but in the air they feel nice although I might be looking at some more playful options in the future as I get older.

SmokedGoudai been really liking my m frees recently and I don't understand the dampness from the jeffs. id think they'd have quite a bit of playfulness in them. will say the dynastars arent the poppiest ski, but in the air they feel nice although I might be looking at some more playful options in the future as I get older.

Are you speaking from experience of having been on the jeffs? I have been riding my Jeff 100s for a week or so and, albeit they are the Jeff 100 in 181, feel they aren't really that damp. They are definitely a bit more stable and damp than other freestyle skis due to them being ON3P. Yet, they are still freestyle skis at the end of the day and just aren't going to be all that stable and damp.

DingletronWhat’s up


looking for some advice on my next pair of skis. 5’9” 160 lbs, pretty strong skier skiing primarily in the Front Range and San Juan’s. I want skis that can ski steep variable shit fast with confidence, while still being able to spin, potentially take into the park for a lap, and use in tight trees. (East Wall / Steep Gullies at A bay, Palymra peak at Telluride).

i currently ski ON3P Jeffrey 108s in 181 and love the dampness, stability, and burly feeling of ON3Ps and like how easy they are to spin and butter, but have found on super steep, big, crunchy lines they get pretty chattery and don’t let you drive the shovels very hard. Also terrible on ice.

ive been eyeing the Woodsman’s, seem like they should have been the ski I bought originally.


also been seeing a bunch of the Moment team using the Countachs for similar skiing, so very intrigued.


had the deathwish 112s, far far too soft for my style of skiing


others I’m considering:

Rossi Sender Free 110
Dynastar M Free
Moment Wildcat 116
ON3P Wrenegade 108
Woodsman 108
Faction Dancer
Black Crow Anima

im looking at widths between 100-108, but also have a pow ski shaped hole in my quiver , so willing to snag the Wildcats or Animas if it makes sense.

can any of you beasts chime in if you’ve used any of these skis or have suggestions on others? Thanks!

**This thread was edited on Feb 20th 2024 at 11:26:25pm

I came across this thread while looking for a replacement for my countach. It's a decent ski for general resort riding, but there isn't anything about the ski that truly excels in any particular realm for me.

It's light imo but I'm more accustomed to heavier skis in the "charging" category, and my personal preference is a more damp ski with freestyle roots. It's super predictable until you hit chop at speed at which point it deflects easier than I'd like and in really deep snow it sunk more than my 108mm waist CT 3.0 from years ago. I found these skis most useful for night skiing the resort with occasional park laps but overall I almost think it would be better in my lineup with pin bindings as a tourer.

For a hard-charging ski I'd like more dampness/forgiveness and heft to explode moguls as I hit them, and for my surfy/reckless abandon style of skiing the countach isn't scratching any itches. It's also not playful enough in the park for me although the stiffness felt pretty good on jumps. It's an in-betweener from my perspective, and apparently my tastes are more on the extremes rather than using a middle-ground ski and making it work for everything.

TL;DR I'm getting a new ski because the countach was too finicky for full gas charging in my conditions, and not fun enough when skiing playfully. It's great if you're looking for an all-around resort ski that can sneak into the side country or pick down a couloir but don't expect to straight-line the apron from up high without doing a dance to save your life.

grant.I came across this thread while looking for a replacement for my countach. It's a decent ski for general resort riding, but there isn't anything about the ski that truly excels in any particular realm for me.

It's light imo but I'm more accustomed to heavier skis in the "charging" category, and my personal preference is a more damp ski with freestyle roots. It's super predictable until you hit chop at speed at which point it deflects easier than I'd like and in really deep snow it sunk more than my 108mm waist CT 3.0 from years ago. I found these skis most useful for night skiing the resort with occasional park laps but overall I almost think it would be better in my lineup with pin bindings as a tourer.

For a hard-charging ski I'd like more dampness/forgiveness and heft to explode moguls as I hit them, and for my surfy/reckless abandon style of skiing the countach isn't scratching any itches. It's also not playful enough in the park for me although the stiffness felt pretty good on jumps. It's an in-betweener from my perspective, and apparently my tastes are more on the extremes rather than using a middle-ground ski and making it work for everything.

TL;DR I'm getting a new ski because the countach was too finicky for full gas charging in my conditions, and not fun enough when skiing playfully. It's great if you're looking for an all-around resort ski that can sneak into the side country or pick down a couloir but don't expect to straight-line the apron from up high without doing a dance to save your life.

Yo grant what did you end up choosing and how do you like them?

What did anyone else choose, and same question?

I have some 184 sender free 110s mounted at rec I’ve been skiing for a season-ish now and they are not doing it for me. I feel a massive amount of stability on my 186 black ops 118s mounted -2 from rec, confidence to point, but they are a little cumbersome in tighter stuff, like pow hunting in the trees after a storm or something.

Was hoping for more of a “daily driver” version of the black ops 118, but this is not it. Unless…. they still are and I just screwed up the mount and should have gone -2 as well.

Idk about remounting and devaluing since they are so hot right now.
idk about 191s cause I have never really skied something that long and idk if they would be more “daily driver” or just as cumbersome feeling as the 118.

Just to complicate things I picked up some 182 m-frees for a crazy deal (which funny enough measure exactly the same length as the 184 sender 110) and trying to decide if they should be a part of the quiver, but also worried about them being too short / not feel solid enough to point.

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