Member of the Month

weatcoast
February, 2023

Online

Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!

Bindings for Fast & Aggressive Skiing

profile picture
marcomarinescu
Posts: 2 - Karma: 21
Hello!

I just purchased a new pair of 4FRNT Hoji 4-Lock 177cm after years of wanting to get them. I am really stoked and can't wait to get on them.
I lost touch with all the new advancements in binding technology for the last 2 years and I am looking for opinions on what bindings to pair them with.

A bit of background: I am 177cm tall and 67 kg. I am a very advanced skier (skiing for 23 years) and I prefer to ski big mountain lines with high speeds and long turns and occasional cliff drops, but will also be skiing forests and trees in Romania and also other locations in the EU (Alps). I am coming from the Liberty Helix 182cm (2016) paired with the Marker Tour F12, which has been my only freeride/resort off-piste ski for the last 5 years.

I want the Hoji's to be my go to exclusive freeride touring ski. I am therefore looking for a binding that can withstand an aggressive skiing style and feel great on the way down but still be light enough for extensive touring. I've seen Hoji runs exclusively on Dynafit and he slays big mountain lines and sends huge drops. I didn't know you can charge that hard on tech bindings.. they must have came a long way. The 4FRNT team recommended to go with the Dynafit Rotation 14 and they said Hoji also believes in it's performance.

Other alternative tech bindings with good downhill performance, I found whilst researching quite a bit are:
ATK Freerider 16 / 14 - They seem super well build and heard a lot of good things about them, with great downhill performance for its weight.
Salomon MTN - Also heard a lot of praise from them, and seen that Cody Townsend has them on almost all his pairs.
Marker Alpinist - Seems to be in the same category as the Salomon MTN, which heard it also has good downhill performance as well with the highest rating on Gear Lab.

Is it indeed possible to charge aggressive big mountain lines with tech bindings for the long run without performance or safety issues? I would prefer to go tech route to save up some weight if I could find a binding that feels great and solid on the downhill. I know it's a tradeoff but looking forward for your opinions.


Also note on the skis: Someone just told me that the Hojis ski quite short (probably due to the full rocker). Do you think I made a mistake to order the 177cm? Thing is it was either the 177cm or the 191cm since the 184s were out of stock.. Any advice on this?

Thanks a lot!
Marco
Mar 22 2022 2:36PM
4 0
profile picture
Celery
Posts: 1458 - Karma: 16,136
Have you considered pivots with cast? That's the real best option if you want to ski fast and charge.
Mar 22 2022 3:04PM
9 1
profile picture
Juviticus
Posts: 211 - Karma: 1,038
CeleryHave you considered pivots with cast? That's the real best option if you want to ski fast and charge.


Yeah pivot 15/18 with CAST is best bet for sure. Shifts pre-release often enough (sorry Salomon they're not that bad) and the Marker Duke PT, when compared to Pivot/CAST is way too expensive and heavy
Mar 22 2022 3:17PM
4 0
profile picture
Yukon_Cornelius
Posts: 107 - Karma: 1,126
I honestly expected this to be another troll thread and it’s almost funnier that it’s not.

I love my Pivot/Cast, but they’re HEAVY, if you care about that.

Maybe also worth checking out the Moment Voyagers in addition to the ones you listed.

best of luck
Mar 22 2022 5:07PM
4 0
profile picture
BrandoComando
Posts: 1454 - Karma: 18,222
ATK is the move. Best pin binding in the market right now for freeride. Retention and feel are excellent for a tech binding. I have a friend who sends huge cliff drops inbounds and carves hard on wide skis at 50+ mph on the ATK 14. The all-aluminum build quality is lightweight and super durable.
Mar 22 2022 6:53PM
4 0
profile picture
Raejnies
Posts: 70 - Karma: 403
Moment Voyager and atk freeraider is the same thing.
Yukon_CorneliusI honestly expected this to be another troll thread and it’s almost funnier that it’s not.

I love my Pivot/Cast, but they’re HEAVY, if you care about that.

Maybe also worth checking out the Moment Voyagers in addition to the ones you listed.

best of luck
Mar 23 2022 8:59AM
1 0
profile picture
anders_a
Posts: 1673 - Karma: 5,571
CAST or duke PT 16 are the only that fits with FAST AGGRESSIVE SKIING.



with that said, that ski doesnt fit with FAST AGRESSIVE SKIING
Mar 23 2022 9:19AM
1 0
profile picture
marcomarinescu
Posts: 2 - Karma: 21
@Celery @Juviticus @Yukon_Cornelius

Thanks for the suggestion guys! I have also gotten recommendations from friends regarding the Look Cast, and it's now sitting on top of the list. A friend of mine told me he's got Look Pivots on all his skies and he swears by them, saying it really does make a ski more playful and the feeling is phenomenal. The only downside here is weight.

@Yukon_Cornelius How's transitioning with them? I find it a little counterproductive to always switch the toe piece, and quite risky to do it on steep ridges where you barely find a place to put your pack down. I see a potential risk of dropping the toe piece at some point.

@BrandoComando Yeah, ATK Freerider 14, is high on my list as well, and heard is one of the most capable pin binding for freeride. As far as I've seen ATK really stepped up the game in pin bindings lately leaving Dynafit well behind.. interesting!

@anders_a Well depends on how you interpret that. I find my style pretty similar to Eric Hjorleifson's (only at a smaller scale - riding smaller mountains) and to me, he charges pretty fast and aggressive.
Mar 23 2022 9:56AM
0 0
profile picture
marcomarinescu
Posts: 2 - Karma: 21
As a side note, any Hoji users in the camp?

I am coming from the Liberty Helix 182 which skies well in resort, but in big mountain lines it sometimes feels clunky and not that responsive, with the edge catching the snow a lot of times when turning and throws me off balance. In tight trees it's almost like I'm forcing it to turn.. very demanding and not fun at all.

4FRNT team recommended told me that I should definitely go for the 177 given the info provided, but I keep hearing that the Hoji's ski quite short, and now I'm worried I didn't make the right decision to go with the 177... Would my lightweight balance out the shorter length? What do you guys think?

**This post was edited on Mar 23rd 2022 at 10:11:01am
Mar 23 2022 10:09AM
1 0
profile picture
Burrito
Posts: 1861 - Karma: 899
In my mind the two biggest things to consider are the conditions you'll be riding in and the amount of vertical you think you'll be covering from day to day in this setup.

Vertical is easy - the more you want to go up the more you'll appreciate the weight savings, transitions, etc. of a tech binding, and the more you care about the down the more you'll be willing to trade weight convenience for downhill performance.

As far as conditions - the softer, more forgiving the snow the less you'll notice the harsh, largely inelastic ride of a tech binding, and the more variable the snow conditions the more you will likely appreciate the elastic travel of an alpine style binding (assuming you want to ride those conditions hard, as well.)

Tech bindings have indeed come a long way, but they are not and never will be alpine bindings - at least in their current configuration. After spending a few years on various platforms, I've come to the following conclusions specifically for my needs, riding style, etc.

- No more trying to build 50/50 setups. I just wasn't compelled to tour enough on Kingpins or Shifts due to the fact that they were heavy and finicky, at least more so than my friends' tech binding setups. Being a little bit slower all the time really started to nag at me. Plus I like big skis for the resort, only adding to my uphill problems.

- If I really want a backcountry setup I can rail on for the couple of days per season I'm riding the best possible backcountry conditions, hands down Cast all the way.

- For a devoted touring setup pretty much any of the newer tech binding options out there work really well, but the ATK with the freeride spacer is the winner in my book.
Mar 23 2022 12:16PM
1 0
profile picture
rymeisterbaby
Posts: 122 - Karma: -550
marcomarinescuHello!

I just purchased a new pair of 4FRNT Hoji 4-Lock 177cm after years of wanting to get them. I am really stoked and can't wait to get on them.
I lost touch with all the new advancements in binding technology for the last 2 years and I am looking for opinions on what bindings to pair them with.

A bit of background: I am 177cm tall and 67 kg. I am a very advanced skier (skiing for 23 years) and I prefer to ski big mountain lines with high speeds and long turns and occasional cliff drops, but will also be skiing forests and trees in Romania and also other locations in the EU (Alps). I am coming from the Liberty Helix 182cm (2016) paired with the Marker Tour F12, which has been my only freeride/resort off-piste ski for the last 5 years.

I want the Hoji's to be my go to exclusive freeride touring ski. I am therefore looking for a binding that can withstand an aggressive skiing style and feel great on the way down but still be light enough for extensive touring. I've seen Hoji runs exclusively on Dynafit and he slays big mountain lines and sends huge drops. I didn't know you can charge that hard on tech bindings.. they must have came a long way. The 4FRNT team recommended to go with the Dynafit Rotation 14 and they said Hoji also believes in it's performance.

Other alternative tech bindings with good downhill performance, I found whilst researching quite a bit are:
ATK Freerider 16 / 14 - They seem super well build and heard a lot of good things about them, with great downhill performance for its weight.
Salomon MTN - Also heard a lot of praise from them, and seen that Cody Townsend has them on almost all his pairs.
Marker Alpinist - Seems to be in the same category as the Salomon MTN, which heard it also has good downhill performance as well with the highest rating on Gear Lab.

Is it indeed possible to charge aggressive big mountain lines with tech bindings for the long run without performance or safety issues? I would prefer to go tech route to save up some weight if I could find a binding that feels great and solid on the downhill. I know it's a tradeoff but looking forward for your opinions.


Also note on the skis: Someone just told me that the Hojis ski quite short (probably due to the full rocker). Do you think I made a mistake to order the 177cm? Thing is it was either the 177cm or the 191cm since the 184s were out of stock.. Any advice on this?

Thanks a lot!
Marco


salomon sth
Mar 23 2022 2:32PM
0 1
profile picture
IsaacNW82
Posts: 578 - Karma: 5,103
I think you might be asking for too much tbh so I'd try to decide
whether the weight or the freeride performance is more important to you.

You can definitely ski really hard on tech bindings if you lock out the toes but the safety is questionable. For example, Sammy Carlson does everything on Marker Kingpins with the toes locked out.

This article is very informative on the safety of tech bindings. Basically, more ACL safe, less Tib/fib safe, somewhat less safe overall as tib/fib fractures are more likely then ACL tears historically.
https://skimo.co/tech-binding-release-testing.
Mar 23 2022 3:17PM
0 0
profile picture
mrk127
Posts: 1516 - Karma: 13,788
All I gotta say is shift's are shit
Mar 23 2022 11:08PM
2 0
profile picture
FapMasterFLEX
Posts: 608 - Karma: 333
Don't get CAST. It's not practical for long European tours. you'll regret it the second you have a huge touring day. Commit to a lightweight build now, you're going to want it within 5 tours any way. ATK Freeraider is your best choice period. Skiers who are far more talented, heavier and send further than you rip on ATK's. Put the spacers in the 16s and have a blast. you won't regret it.
Mar 24 2022 1:42PM
2 0
All times are Eastern (-4)