Member of the Month

weatcoast
March, 2023

Online

Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!

BC/Touring Safety resource recommendations?

profile picture
Schoess
Posts: 1846 - Karma: 21,702
Hello Friends,

I have recently began acquiring most of what I need to get myself into touring. I currently live in SLC, Utah. My tentative plan is to do a bit of no risk XC with the setup to get used to it, and then tour up Brighton/Alta in the spring for some risk free practice.

My question is, what would be your recommendations for good online resources to learn all about safety in the back country? I plan to take an avy course of some sort next season as well (could use some pointers on what to take and what's out there).
Jan 31 2022 9:35AM
4 0
profile picture
XC
Posts: 181 - Karma: 1,268
Nothing beats a mentor/buddy that can lead and teach you. But doing your part to learn before going is also a key factor. I appreciate your approach to getting into things slowly with consideration of the dangers. This old module has some great info in it. It's kinda outdated and some components are locked, but if you follow the outline you'll take away some good info: http://avycourse.blogspot.com/2010/04/welcome.html

Also, Outdoor Research videos on YouTube are pretty good: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLajYFniMZtJiKnkUrTi3JxslhfSq7YQpr

If you can afford it, I'd hire a AMGA guide to mentor you. I know some offer remote mentoring. You can contact them to discuss it personally and see if they can coordinate a custom arrangement for you: https://wasatchmountainguides.com/itinerary/backcountry-ski-mentorship/ (DISCLAIMER! I work for this company).

I bet though that you'll find capable buddies that will lead some tours with you. Make sure they know their shit though!
Jan 31 2022 12:14PM
2 0
profile picture
Schoess
Posts: 1846 - Karma: 21,702
XCNothing beats a mentor/buddy that can lead and teach you. But doing your part to learn before going is also a key factor. I appreciate your approach to getting into things slowly with consideration of the dangers. This old module has some great info in it. It's kinda outdated and some components are locked, but if you follow the outline you'll take away some good info: http://avycourse.blogspot.com/2010/04/welcome.html

Also, Outdoor Research videos on YouTube are pretty good: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLajYFniMZtJiKnkUrTi3JxslhfSq7YQpr

If you can afford it, I'd hire a AMGA guide to mentor you. I know some offer remote mentoring. You can contact them to discuss it personally and see if they can coordinate a custom arrangement for you: https://wasatchmountainguides.com/itinerary/backcountry-ski-mentorship/ (DISCLAIMER! I work for this company).

I bet though that you'll find capable buddies that will lead some tours with you. Make sure they know their shit though!


Thank you for the detailed reply! I will certainly explore these resources and try to go with friends who know what they're doing when it comes time for the BC. I would like to do an in person course with instructor, but we'll see what the budget is looking like considering I want to buy a house this year :P
Jan 31 2022 2:17PM
2 0
profile picture
edai
Posts: 4951 - Karma: 4,442
yo i live in murray and am in basically the exact same spot experience wise. been out with friends once or twice in colorado for hut trips but ive got a new setup shipping to me right now and avy course feb 11th. also got a bunch of other homies with little to moderate experience levels touring, ill hyu.
Jan 31 2022 11:27PM
2 0
profile picture
SkiingNinja
Posts: 1954 - Karma: 840
Free quick resources:
https://coloradomountainschool.com/product/avalanche-awareness-clinic/
https://kbyg.org/
Plenty of YouTube stuff out there
Get in the practice of reading your local avalanche forecasting center's discussions every day.

Paid online resources
https://www.mtnsense.com/p/backcountry-skiing-avalanche-course (also consider the digital nav course)
Feb 1 2022 4:07PM
2 0
profile picture
Schoess
Posts: 1846 - Karma: 21,702
SkiingNinjaFree quick resources:
https://coloradomountainschool.com/product/avalanche-awareness-clinic/
https://kbyg.org/
Plenty of YouTube stuff out there
Get in the practice of reading your local avalanche forecasting center's discussions every day.

Paid online resources
https://www.mtnsense.com/p/backcountry-skiing-avalanche-course (also consider the digital nav course)


Thank you, I'll check this out!
Feb 1 2022 8:53PM
2 0
profile picture
BrandoComando
Posts: 1456 - Karma: 18,271
You should pick up a copy of Bruce Tremper's Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain. It's basically the avy 101 textbook and it's full of valuable knowledge from a longtime Utah Avy Center forecaster. He's funny too, which helps with readability
Feb 2 2022 12:27PM
6 0
profile picture
Schoess
Posts: 1846 - Karma: 21,702
Awesome! I'll definitely check and see if there's an audio book version too so I can listen at work!
BrandoComandoYou should pick up a copy of Bruce Tremper's Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain. It's basically the avy 101 textbook and it's full of valuable knowledge from a longtime Utah Avy Center forecaster. He's funny too, which helps with readability
Feb 2 2022 12:50PM
3 0
profile picture
OldManAtABasin
Posts: 255 - Karma: 2,187
You should read Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain by Bruce Tremper — it's essentially the gold standard. He also has a condensed version thats like 150 pages called Avalanche Essentials. Take your Avy 1 then find a beacon park. I'd also recommend the nols wilderness first aid class which will be the best $200 you ever spend. There is a solid book called Hunting Powder which teaches you how to read weather in the mountains. It's aimed toward Colorado but the stuff you learn will apply to anywhere.

Find a mentor.
Feb 2 2022 1:51PM
4 0
profile picture
skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7036 - Karma: 15,808
OldManAtABasinYou should read Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain by Bruce Tremper — it's essentially the gold standard. He also has a condensed version thats like 150 pages called Avalanche Essentials. Take your Avy 1 then find a beacon park. I'd also recommend the nols wilderness first aid class which will be the best $200 you ever spend. There is a solid book called Hunting Powder which teaches you how to read weather in the mountains. It's aimed toward Colorado but the stuff you learn will apply to anywhere.

Find a mentor.

This. The Bruce Tremper book, and another book called "The Avalanche Handbook" should be available for $20-30 online or at an outdoor store in SLC. I'm sure they'd even have those books at the library there. Studying some topo maps of the areas you plan to go is helpful as well for planning your trip while avoiding hazardous terrain.
Feb 2 2022 3:44PM
3 0
profile picture
Schoess
Posts: 1846 - Karma: 21,702
Thank you all again for the information so far. I acquired an e book of Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain and am already 50 pages in. I have also connected with a few friends who are willing to go out with me and show me the ropes in real time. This season I don't plan to do any "real" tours, mainly just follow others and use the closed resorts in the spring. Based on the complexities of avalanches outlined in the intro and chapter 1 of the book, I definitely am going to take quite awhile to feel comfortable sending big (big for me) lines or really sending something while touring. Does anyone here have words for me regarding that? Do you feel comfortable trying stunts or dropping cliffs and shit while touring, or do you strictly save that for the resort?
Feb 2 2022 4:00PM
2 0
profile picture
OldManAtABasin
Posts: 255 - Karma: 2,187
SchoessThank you all again for the information so far. I acquired an e book of Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain and am already 50 pages in. I have also connected with a few friends who are willing to go out with me and show me the ropes in real time. This season I don't plan to do any "real" tours, mainly just follow others and use the closed resorts in the spring. Based on the complexities of avalanches outlined in the intro and chapter 1 of the book, I definitely am going to take quite awhile to feel comfortable sending big (big for me) lines or really sending something while touring. Does anyone here have words for me regarding that? Do you feel comfortable trying stunts or dropping cliffs and shit while touring, or do you strictly save that for the resort?


In the book he has a chapter focusing on the human element of decision making - read it multiple times.


Regarding what I do in the backcountry, it depends. There are too many variables at play but most importantly it depends on who I am with.
Feb 2 2022 4:10PM
2 0
profile picture
Schoess
Posts: 1846 - Karma: 21,702
OldManAtABasinIn the book he has a chapter focusing on the human element of decision making - read it multiple times.


Regarding what I do in the backcountry, it depends. There are too many variables at play but most importantly it depends on who I am with.


Thank you, that is great advice. I'm looking forward to getting to that part of the book! I already plan to reread sections a few times as there is information I didn't fully absorb the first time.
Feb 2 2022 11:32PM
2 0
profile picture
SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,120
OldManAtABasinYou should read Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain by Bruce Tremper — it's essentially the gold standard. He also has a condensed version thats like 150 pages called Avalanche Essentials. Take your Avy 1 then find a beacon park. I'd also recommend the nols wilderness first aid class which will be the best $200 you ever spend. There is a solid book called Hunting Powder which teaches you how to read weather in the mountains. It's aimed toward Colorado but the stuff you learn will apply to anywhere.

Find a mentor.

for another 220 bucks and a few more hours
a woffers worth it
wfr is immensely better than wfa
Feb 3 2022 8:13AM
0 0
profile picture
SkiingNinja
Posts: 1954 - Karma: 840
I don’t recommend reading The Avalanche Handbook until you have some formal education and a few seasons / many days under your belt. Unless you are a graduate student who likes that type of reading. It’s very heady.

For the send, I think your approach to easing in is good. There are certain snowpacks, certain times of the year and even certain days during mid winter that are totally fine to ski bigger terrain. For example, Colorado just had low avy danger for a while in January and people were getting rowdy, riding lines that are typically reserved for a spring isothermic snowpack.
Feb 3 2022 11:29AM
1 0
profile picture
skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7036 - Karma: 15,808
SchoessThank you all again for the information so far. I acquired an e book of Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain and am already 50 pages in. I have also connected with a few friends who are willing to go out with me and show me the ropes in real time. This season I don't plan to do any "real" tours, mainly just follow others and use the closed resorts in the spring. Based on the complexities of avalanches outlined in the intro and chapter 1 of the book, I definitely am going to take quite awhile to feel comfortable sending big (big for me) lines or really sending something while touring. Does anyone here have words for me regarding that? Do you feel comfortable trying stunts or dropping cliffs and shit while touring, or do you strictly save that for the resort?

I do tricks and am always looking for something to play on while day touring, especially if it's near road access but I dial it back a lot.
Any time I've been on a multi day trip it was with a specific objective of a line to ski, so wasn't thinking about features to hit, but sometimes if we saw a cool thing to hit on the way out we'd do it.
Feb 3 2022 11:46AM
0 0
profile picture
skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7036 - Karma: 15,808
Another thing that can make a big difference over years of touring is to keep a trip journal. Record your observations on weather, snow conditions, where you went, how long it took, what aspect(s) you skied, how you felt, any problems that arose and how you dealt with them. Also take a point and shoot or other compact camera to record snowpack, etc.
Cross reference your own observations with the weather forecast to build knowledge of how various weather affects the specific areas you're spending time in.
I feel a lot of people neglect this. It's time consuming and can feel like work. It helps you make more careful observations in the moment and think critically about your surroundings. If you make it a regular practice, it will help you be more prepared and make good decisions on future trips.
Feb 3 2022 11:57AM
1 0
profile picture
cydwhit
Posts: 5047 - Karma: 42,530
SFBv420.0for another 220 bucks and a few more hours
a woffers worth it
wfr is immensely better than wfa


While I appreciate how much better WFR is than WFA, I wish it was this small of a difference. WFA's around here are 16 hours (two evenings and one Saturday) and $220. WFR's are 72 hours, and $1000+. It's a pretty big jump both in time commitment and financial attainability for a lot of folks. And then you still need to WFA to re-cert every two years.

I feel like there's a lot of room for a ski-specific first aid class somewhere between the "mostly just use common sense and communicate with the patient while you wait for definitive care" of a WFA, and the fully committed 10ish days that most WFR classes take to cover a huge scope of issues.
Feb 3 2022 2:15PM
1 0
profile picture
OldManAtABasin
Posts: 255 - Karma: 2,187
SFBv420.0for another 220 bucks and a few more hours
a woffers worth it
wfr is immensely better than wfa


Eh, I don't know if I necessarily agree with this. It's significantly more than $220 more — a quick look and the cheapest I can find is $795 in my area and most approaching $1k. That's vastly different than $250 bucks for WFA.
Feb 3 2022 2:20PM
1 0
profile picture
SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,120
my bad i guess my last recert was 420 bucks
and nols will give you a grace year if you recert vrs. wfa for continued ed
so you can go 3 years although your woffer isnt valid the last year
if that makes sense
and for me its a grand well spent for the 1st one
Feb 4 2022 12:41PM
1 0
All times are Eastern (-4)