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February, 2023

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Nuclear Take On How X Games Should Operate

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Farmville420
Posts: 1857 - Karma: 21,361
My dad was watching x games over the weekend with me. He loves skiing, he loves park skiing, he loves going to the dew tour stops in the east coast back in the day. He said this particular x games was unwatchable. And I agree, but not for the reasons you might think.

He said every run looks the same. He said “it’s hard to be impressed when every run looks identical”. Everybody spinning the same axis, with the same grabs, doing so many rotations you can’t count. Is it impressive? Obviously. Is it fucking insane how good these guys are? Of course. However for neutrals, it’s a snooze fest.

How can we improve it? I was thinking about potential parameters X games should place on riders in order to challenge them to add variety to their runs. This also keeps the competitive integrity because it applies to all riders. Here’s a few theoretical ones for slopestyle:

-Required single flip.

-Missing a grab results in 0 points for the trick.
-Requiring 3 unique grabs on each of the jumps.

-No repeat axis, so if you do a switch cork on one jump, you’re left with either rodeo, bio, misty, flat spin on your next two.

For Big Air:

-Required under 900 rotation on your first hit. Just warm up the night with something steezy, something savory
-Mandatory Left rotation
-mandatory right rotation
-0 points for no grab, bonus points for unique grabs

Can’t stop spin to win in big air, that event is based on spin to win and it always has been. I think a good judging criteria tho would be how different your tricks and grabs are and that can be factored in as well.

Halfpipe:
-Every hit must be unique, they already kind of abide to this so I won’t really say much about that. I watched a few pipe runs and generally the variety is pretty good but pipe is always a blast to watch. I guess just emphasize variety and award points to that.


Kinda sounds like it is taking away from the riders, but I think by doing something like this, it will actually force competitors to be more creative, and as a result they will be forced to have incredibly unique runs. I actually agreed with my dad, if I didn’t love skiing I could actually see watching some of these events and being like “well which trick is hard since they are all doing the same ones”. Let me know why this would be a potentially bad idea or criticize my lists, I’m working with some people to write a more formal appeal because now that Disney is no longer sucking money out of x games the new investors might actually be inclined to listen. Again this is supposed to be a discussion I could totally be overseeing things, this is just what I got so far.

**This thread was edited on Jan 28th 2022 at 11:33:12am
Jan 28 2022 11:32AM
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eheath
Posts: 60031 - Karma: 107,462
The biggest issue with this concept is that you are completely ruining the idea of big air, slopestyle and pipe skiing, adding requirements for flips/spins/etc just makes it aerials and it would just make it worse.

The caveat of our sport is that its very subjective, but that's why we love it, getting caught up on xgames results isn't productive.
Jan 28 2022 11:36AM
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yungsteeze
Posts: 673 - Karma: 1,968
manZ trying to mandate it back to 2005
Jan 28 2022 11:39AM
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Farmville420
Posts: 1857 - Karma: 21,361
eheathThe biggest issue with this concept is that you are completely ruining the idea of big air, slopestyle and pipe skiing, adding requirements for flips/spins/etc just makes it aerials and it would just make it worse.

The caveat of our sport is that its very subjective, but that's why we love it, getting caught up on xgames results isn't productive.


None of this post has anything to do with results tho. Also a bunch of my points are actually for judges and their discretion
Jan 28 2022 11:40AM
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Farmville420
Posts: 1857 - Karma: 21,361
yungsteezemanZ trying to mandate it back to 2005


Eh there has always been rules tho. Remember when the left/right spin big air format existed? Shit even now they are trying to make rules saying adding a 180 isn’t a “new” trick but an improvement on a previous one. It’s not like rules/judging criteria hasn’t existed since 05

**This post was edited on Jan 28th 2022 at 11:42:09am
Jan 28 2022 11:41AM
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eheath
Posts: 60031 - Karma: 107,462
Farmville420Eh there has always been rules tho. Remember when the left/right spin big air format existed? Shit even now they are trying to make rules saying adding a 180 isn’t a “new” trick but an improvement on a previous one. It’s not like rules/judging criteria hasn’t existed since 05

**This post was edited on Jan 28th 2022 at 11:42:09am


You're missing the point I'm making, the left/right thing failed, the rule this year that fucked over matej failed as well. They added rules and it didn't work, it needs to be an absolute free-for-all and your best two jumps should count.

I think it should be on the judges to make a call that a trick was too similar or reward people who spin both ways, do a harder rotation, do multiple rotations, etc. building it into the "rules" just limits the possibilities.
Jan 28 2022 11:46AM
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Farmville420
Posts: 1857 - Karma: 21,361
eheathYou're missing the point I'm making, the left/right thing failed, the rule this year that fucked over matej failed as well. They added rules and it didn't work, it needs to be an absolute free-for-all and your best two jumps should count.

I think it should be on the judges to make a call that a trick was too similar or reward people who spin both ways, do a harder rotation, do multiple rotations, etc. building it into the "rules" just limits the possibilities.


Ah okay I see what you mean. Yeah I mean, these rules could also just be for the judges only, or general guidelines. Just trying to figure out the best way to not limit riders but also incentivize not doing the same tricks every run. But yeah it does all really stem from what the judges want in the first place.
Jan 28 2022 11:51AM
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jakeordie
Posts: 644 - Karma: 3,066
Farmville420I was thinking about potential parameters X games should place on riders in order to challenge them to add variety to their runs. This also keeps the competitive integrity because it applies to all riders.

In gymnastics these are known as compulsories.

eheathThey added rules and it didn't work, it needs to be an absolute free-for-all

THIS.

The whole point of X-Games is being what the Olympics is not. It's a television show masquerading as a legitimate sporting event, and now that X sports are in the Olympics they need to take it where the IOC won't follow i.e. less structured.
Jan 28 2022 1:03PM
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r00kie
Posts: 4577 - Karma: 50,261
The biggest change x needs is adding a rail jam.
Jan 28 2022 1:08PM
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little1337
Posts: 7901 - Karma: 40,411
Mandate zero spins!
Jan 28 2022 1:11PM
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Celery
Posts: 1458 - Karma: 16,136
And to do one that isn't on the slope style setup, Those rails are too big for it. Something similar to the steel city showdown course would be sick.
r00kieThe biggest change x needs is adding a rail jam.
Jan 28 2022 1:12PM
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 5341 - Karma: 56,444
r00kieThe biggest change x needs is adding a rail jam.

Totally. They have slopestyle, halfpipe (basically a form of slope with only vert air features), big air (just the biggest slope jump), and knuckle huck (modified big air). So four events featuring air time, only one with rails and they seem to count less. I would definitely love to see some sort of extra, rail-only event like a rail jam. Standard formats with multiple types of jib features would obviously work best, but I also would love to see a rail jam with some beast of a challenge rail that enables riders to hit it in many different ways.
Jan 28 2022 1:13PM
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 12205 - Karma: 109,720
No more judges, Newschoolers voting system applies next year
Jan 28 2022 1:30PM
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yungsteeze
Posts: 673 - Karma: 1,968
rails being more significant would be nice. also they could make the rails harder i.e. kinked handrails and stuff so everyone isnt able to dance on all the rails and rip 4 pretz 4s on a fat tube. make a menacing quad kink handrail the only feature on the first tier lol. but then again the masses want to watch everybody spin as much as possible so the tubes that send you high in the air are more conducive to that
Jan 28 2022 3:32PM
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asparagus
Posts: 2276 - Karma: 25,951
Controversial opinion: I’m tired of knuckle huck. Replace it with a style contest, like a weird slope run where the goal is to be as aesthetically pleasing/stylish as possible. Lose points for doing hard tricks for no reason. Goal is to be as simple but interesting as possible.

Other idea: become like figure skating where you have tricks purely for style and tricks purely for tech.
Jan 28 2022 3:47PM
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piss_boy
Posts: 1261 - Karma: 8,483
asparagusControversial opinion: I’m tired of knuckle huck. Replace it with a style contest, like a weird slope run where the goal is to be as aesthetically pleasing/stylish as possible. Lose points for doing hard tricks for no reason. Goal is to be as simple but interesting as possible.

Other idea: become like figure skating where you have tricks purely for style and tricks purely for tech.

Or they should make some smaller funky features on the roller, like a berm hooking you into the other side of the landing or a canon rail or something
Jan 28 2022 3:59PM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 3932 - Karma: 35,140
yungsteezerails being more significant would be nice. also they could make the rails harder i.e. kinked handrails and stuff so everyone isnt able to dance on all the rails and rip 4 pretz 4s on a fat tube. make a menacing quad kink handrail the only feature on the first tier lol. but then again the masses want to watch everybody spin as much as possible so the tubes that send you high in the air are more conducive to that


yeah was just looking at the Olympic course and there are a lot of tubes and mailboxes in there. Like I thought these guys were the best in the world they can't throw down on a single barrel rail??
Jan 28 2022 6:56PM
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shinbangclan
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 7,527
I think this entire thing can be condensed with just having all the athletes do a warm-up "show run" like how football teams run out of an inflatable mascot mouth. Just their favorite, most stylish trick, along with a profile introduction. Makes it more viewer friendly.
Jan 28 2022 7:01PM
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armchair_skier
Posts: 1756 - Karma: 21,272
shinbangclanI think this entire thing can be condensed with just having all the athletes do a warm-up "show run" like how football teams run out of an inflatable mascot mouth. Just their favorite, most stylish trick, along with a profile introduction. Makes it more viewer friendly.


All the athletes mob the course at the start of the contest
Jan 28 2022 7:05PM
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Farmville420
Posts: 1857 - Karma: 21,361
yungsteezerails being more significant would be nice. also they could make the rails harder i.e. kinked handrails and stuff so everyone isnt able to dance on all the rails and rip 4 pretz 4s on a fat tube. make a menacing quad kink handrail the only feature on the first tier lol. but then again the masses want to watch everybody spin as much as possible so the tubes that send you high in the air are more conducive to that


hi_vis360yeah was just looking at the Olympic course and there are a lot of tubes and mailboxes in there. Like I thought these guys were the best in the world they can't throw down on a single barrel rail??

They give them easy rails for sure. Currently rails are actually my least favorite part of the entirety of x games. I mean rails are inherently stale by design, in snowboarding and skateboarding you can add rotations but also do different types of grinds themselves. Besides frontslides, backslides, broken and tail/nose press I can’t really think of any way to add flavor to the rail garden that isn’t just spinning more. And the worst part is people don’t even do those grinds, that just steezily whip their body at 4000 rpm and land effortlessly and for some reason I just can’t get hyped about it, no matter how fucked what they just did was
Jan 28 2022 7:08PM
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Farmville420
Posts: 1857 - Karma: 21,361
shinbangclanI think this entire thing can be condensed with just having all the athletes do a warm-up "show run" like how football teams run out of an inflatable mascot mouth. Just their favorite, most stylish trick, along with a profile introduction. Makes it more viewer friendly.


I think this is one thing we can all agree on, plus it puts into perspective how insane their tech runs are.
Jan 28 2022 7:09PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 50621 - Karma: 150,815
Mandatory dub cork onto a a rail
Jan 28 2022 7:10PM
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BLandz
Posts: 1054 - Karma: 16,265
TRVP_ANGELNo more judges, Newschoolers voting system applies next year

Lets be honest this is the only thing that would fix x games
Jan 28 2022 8:07PM
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iced
Posts: 3070 - Karma: 17,868
what if the just publicly executed whoever doesnt make podium
Jan 28 2022 8:18PM
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shinbangclan
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 7,527
icedwhat if the just publicly executed whoever doesnt make podium


this is good. Keeps the roster fresh and competitive
Jan 28 2022 9:33PM
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SendyMcSendyface
Posts: 2410 - Karma: 19,438
Controversial Opinion: Xgames suck, Olympics suck. The true way forward is to televise janky midwest rail jams.
Jan 28 2022 10:03PM
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keagan.karstens
Posts: 1294 - Karma: 28,839
Tell him to go watch rev tour
Jan 28 2022 11:07PM
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brosasaki
Posts: 105 - Karma: 801
- Skiers are unleashed for 1 day in a random city, TV crews follow as they all try to make the sickest urban edit
- Mixed terrain (jumps, rails, forest?) event where skiers are ranked by how little time they spend w/skis touching snow as they get from point A->B
- Literally just SLVSH
- Judged tree-skiing event
- Ski-paintball
- Mega-moguls
Jan 29 2022 12:57AM
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Goretex_Vidal
Posts: 314 - Karma: 4,120
21+ Slopestyle
Hour long jam
Competitors must drink a nip on the chair between each run.
Jan 29 2022 1:22AM
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SendyMcSendyface
Posts: 2410 - Karma: 19,438
brosasaki- Skiers are unleashed for 1 day in a random city, TV crews follow as they all try to make the sickest urban edit
- Mixed terrain (jumps, rails, forest?) event where skiers are ranked by how little time they spend w/skis touching snow as they get from point A->B
- Literally just SLVSH
- Judged tree-skiing event
- Ski-paintball
- Mega-moguls


I dig the "floor is lava" type idea, that would be super fucking cool...could set up so many creative features for that shit
Jan 29 2022 2:20AM
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skierman
Posts: 7333 - Karma: -832
X-Games doesn't exist to entertain your fucking idiot dad who cannot tell the difference between different grabs and rotations.



Why are gapers always insistent on changing shit to appease their ignorance?
Jan 29 2022 8:21AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24335 - Karma: 26,907
Something that would be quite fun for slope is if they had to spin a wheel of fortune to decide certain things they have to include in their run... or at least things that would give them bonus points if they complete them... so they would have to mix in stuff that wasn't prepared into their run if they want extra credit.

Creativity often comes from when we are limited to something, and we need to think outside of the box... imagine all these guys show up with at least semi-prepared runs, and now have to spin a wheel that forces them to try things they wouldn't have expected to throw in there.

Examples:
'throw a misty'

'k-fed'

'tail tap the (insert feature here)'

'complete run wearing xxxxxl outerwear'

'wall ride'

etc etc etc.

You could either be serious or get a little goofy with it.



Something like this could possibly separate the more versatile skiers who can really create shit from the guys who just prepare their lines and practice them into perfection.

It could be really fun for big air too, if in between all of the stuff they've prepared, they have to spin the wheel a couple times and try new shit and really show style or creativity with it.
Jan 29 2022 8:51AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24335 - Karma: 26,907
skiermanX-Games doesn't exist to entertain your fucking idiot dad who cannot tell the difference between different grabs and rotations.



Why are gapers always insistent on changing shit to appease their ignorance?


to be fair you can't tell either.
Jan 29 2022 8:52AM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14258 - Karma: 8,559
Here’s make take. The single trick events should be rider judged. That being big air and knuckle huck.

I would like to see a comp ( not x games) that is big air style, but each run everyone does the same spin (hell, start it at 180 and go up to 1260) and everyone does their best flavor of each spin. There’s the solution to the style aspect.

Also bring back switch right 10 mutes
Jan 29 2022 9:36AM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 3932 - Karma: 35,140
LemuelI would like to see a comp ( not x games) that is big air style, but each run everyone does the same spin (hell, start it at 180 and go up to 1260) and everyone does their best flavor of each spin. There’s the solution to the style aspect.


I think this happened one year at the jon olsson invitational not sure what year
Jan 29 2022 9:52AM
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Farmville420
Posts: 1857 - Karma: 21,361
DingoSeanCreativity often comes from when we are limited to something, and we need to think outside of the box... imagine all these guys show up with at least semi-prepared runs, and now have to spin a wheel that forces them to try things they wouldn't have expected to throw in there.

This was pretty much exactly my mentality for the original post. Creating restrictions means riders have to get creative if they want to stand out.

I actually like your idea with the wheel thing, it might make it less serious of a competition, but to be completely honest, it might be more fun to watch. I mean SLVSH is probably the most watched ski series of all time and that’s just a fun little game people play and is then recorded, so I honestly think turning x games into some kind of pure entertainment event would be cool. Plus we already have Dew Tour, FIS, World Cup events for people to watch more serious events, I think x games should be for the masses and just purely entertainment based
Jan 29 2022 10:06AM
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bennwithtwons
Posts: 881 - Karma: 5,181
This is why the average us student is so bad at math
Jan 29 2022 11:10AM
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@LANTASKI
Posts: 599 - Karma: 1,598
yungsteezemanZ trying to mandate it back to 2005


NS, and park skiing as a whole were a whole lot better in 2005 than today.

2001-2008 was the true golden era of freeskiing
Jan 29 2022 11:24AM
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IsaacNW82
Posts: 578 - Karma: 5,103
It would be cool to watch riders mix it up much more, but I think the best way to do this is by tweaking the judging criteria, not adding hard rules. It seems like the main complaint is simply that trick difficulty/landing stuff clean is judged more importantly than style.
Jan 29 2022 11:45AM
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Jonah_w
Posts: 679 - Karma: 4,335
Slopestyle should add a time trial, and the competitors have to bob for apples at the top of the course. After catching an apple, they must take a medium-size chomp, then throw the apple at a target 30 yards away (extra 3 points for honeycrisp, minus 3 for red delicious). If you hit the target, you get a 5 second bonus subtracted from your time (-10 second bonus for opposite-handed throw). After you throw, you can clip into your skis and begin your run. Each competitor MUST complete one 450 on, pretz 450, my personal favorite rail trick and the best looking trick by popular opinion (switch 2, pretz front 4 will suffice but will receive a deduction for lack of spin upon entry). More bonus points for switch dub misty 1260's, especially if done twice in the same run. Automatic score bump +5 for headstand/handstand in the corral. Maybe squeak a little kendama in there too.. haven't figured that one out yet. Judging will be done by the competitor's fathers. Also include a popular vote, decided by text voting of viewers under the age of 10
Jan 30 2022 12:41PM
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Farmville420
Posts: 1857 - Karma: 21,361
Jonah_wSlopestyle should add a time trial, and the competitors have to bob for apples at the top of the course. After catching an apple, they must take a medium-size chomp, then throw the apple at a target 30 yards away (extra 3 points for honeycrisp, minus 3 for red delicious). If you hit the target, you get a 5 second bonus subtracted from your time (-10 second bonus for opposite-handed throw). After you throw, you can clip into your skis and begin your run. Each competitor MUST complete one 450 on, pretz 450, my personal favorite rail trick and the best looking trick by popular opinion (switch 2, pretz front 4 will suffice but will receive a deduction for lack of spin upon entry). More bonus points for switch dub misty 1260's, especially if done twice in the same run. Automatic score bump +5 for headstand/handstand in the corral. Maybe squeak a little kendama in there too.. haven't figured that one out yet. Judging will be done by the competitor's fathers. Also include a popular vote, decided by text voting of viewers under the age of 10


My only criticism is that I would actually pay to watch this
Jan 30 2022 1:28PM
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skierman
Posts: 7333 - Karma: -832
DingoSeanto be fair you can't tell either.


Yeah man, I don't know grabs or how to count beyond 1620.



To be fair, not everyone is inept at math, you stupid fuck.
Jan 30 2022 1:33PM
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Zeaton
Posts: 11 - Karma: 56
Would be cool if they had a rail jam where for 10-15 minutes everyone sessions 1 rail (like a quad kink or a 50-foot flat rail) and riders have to throw the coolest tricks on these hard rails. they do this 4 times and riders aren't given a score just a rank.
Feb 1 2022 10:53AM
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abcdefu
Posts: 182 - Karma: 802
Its definitely hard to quantify who's trick is better. I think adding all sorts of rules and really focusing on judging takes away from the event as a whole. Its always gonna be hard to say who won and there's always gonna be disappointment but I do think it comes down to overall impression in the moment and that's okay.
Feb 1 2022 11:16PM
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