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Pivot Question

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WoFIowz
Posts: 9788 - Karma: 72,394
I know, go to the shop.

So this year I dropped down a boot size for better performance and it upped my din to 8.5 from 7. Obviously I could take to the shop but just wondering if I'm being paranoid or something. I have 3 days on the skis and no issues with prereleases, but I haven't fallen either. So my issue:

I noticed my left boot is nearly impossible to click in (90% of the time I can't click in without pulling the dildo up with my hand). The right one is definitely tougher than last year but clicks in just fine most times. Is it possible the forward pressure is too high? The angled parts of the pivots seem to cut into the heel of my boot but they also did that on previous boots too. Or am I just less coordinated with my left foot which combined with a higher din, makes it more difficult to step into the binding? It's not really an issue now but I worry more so about if I lose my skis and have to clip in on a steep run of fresh snow (already challenging for most with pivots).
Dec 7 2021 11:38AM
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jompcock
Posts: 1482 - Karma: 10,772
Is the foreword pressure higher on the ski that's harder to step into? Smaller boot has more leverage against the binding so raising the din would would make sense. 1.5 seems like a large jump just for going down a boot size unless you're heavier and are skiing harder this year. Post pics of the white FP indicator on the heel piece with the boot in binding if you can. My pivots snap right in at 11 din as long as the heel is straight. Another important thing is to make sure your boot is clear of snow. Smacking the boot in the binding often won't be enough for me so I often have to smack my boot with my pole grip until it's all cleared off.
Dec 7 2021 11:58AM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6594 - Karma: 69,728
Your forward pressure sounds super fucked if you can't step into it yourself. There's a decent guide on TGR to getting the forward pressure right, it's kinda a dark art because the indicator on pivots suck ass.
Dec 7 2021 12:24PM
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ericforman
Posts: 722 - Karma: 6,211
This sounds unsafe
Dec 7 2021 1:49PM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9788 - Karma: 72,394
BiffbarfYour forward pressure sounds super fucked if you can't step into it yourself. There's a decent guide on TGR to getting the forward pressure right, it's kinda a dark art because the indicator on pivots suck ass.

You got a link?
Dec 7 2021 4:16PM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6594 - Karma: 69,728
HypeBeastYou got a link?


https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/308131-P18-Pivot-FKS-forward-pressure-ignore-the-indicator
Dec 7 2021 4:19PM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9788 - Karma: 72,394
Here's some pics. The right one looks nearly identical but for some reason the left is a bit easier to get into. In the below pic you can see the heel sits above prior to snapping in, so perhaps just needs adjusted back a little. I'm gonna take em back in but curious if anyone had any other comments.







Looks sideways just cuz of the pic angle




Dec 7 2021 5:30PM
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animator
Posts: 4547 - Karma: 26,213
So my 2 cents as a tech are whenever I mount or adjust a pair of these, I will ALWAYS test them. The reason for that is because even when adjusting the forward pressure word for word from the tech manual, Ive personally had a ton of issues with the forward pressure not being correct. In my experience the white tab on the back of the heel is very unreliable and therefore I adjust the heelpiece to where I can engage the boot and it sits correctly in the binding, and then I test both bindings twice. This is a surefire way to ensure that the binding is good. Going purely off of the tab has led to a lot of prerelease for me so thats my method (which requires a shop with knowledge of the binding which unfortunately is not every shop).
Dec 7 2021 5:54PM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4202 - Karma: 10,400
HypeBeast


The boot should barely graze the dildo as you're stepping in, the fact that it's completely resting on the dildo shows they're too tight.
Dec 7 2021 6:10PM
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Chunderface
Posts: 2471 - Karma: 9,608
Did you adjust the bindings after getting new boots?
Dec 7 2021 6:40PM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9788 - Karma: 72,394
skeirmanDid you adjust the bindings after getting new boots?

I had them remounted but if I didn't they wouldn't even be close to fitting. Come on lol
Dec 7 2021 10:22PM
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Chunderface
Posts: 2471 - Karma: 9,608
A lot of the time 1 mondo size is 10mm, and depending on where the forward pressure arms are adjusted when the heel is mounted, you can adjust them 10mm. I have 320mm and 330mm bsl boots and I can use either without a remount just by adjusting the arms. But ya anyway just wanted to make sure you hadn't made that mistake by chance because that would have been possibly an easy fix.
Dec 7 2021 10:54PM
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mattytru
Posts: 2775 - Karma: 5,523
forward pressure is far too high or potentially they mismounted one of your bindings (jig got bumped and then not readjusted, something like that). how many notched rings are visible on the heelpiece's forward pressure adjustment arms?
Dec 8 2021 12:35AM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9788 - Karma: 72,394
Biffbarfhttps://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/308131-P18-Pivot-FKS-forward-pressure-ignore-the-indicator

Even better, found the tech manual. I find it interesting that the forward pressure is messed up, however aren't shops supposed to do binding release tests when they install/adjust bindings? I got a feeling that this doesn't happen as much as it should. Any techs wanna weigh in on my suspicions about places not testing the release values and just using the visual indicators and "feel" to ensure a proper functioning binding?


Dec 9 2021 5:45AM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9071 - Karma: 58,832
Gosh even the manual basically says it's an art not a science lol
Dec 9 2021 8:58AM
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jompcock
Posts: 1482 - Karma: 10,772
HypeBeastEven better, found the tech manual. I find it interesting that the forward pressure is messed up, however aren't shops supposed to do binding release tests when they install/adjust bindings? I got a feeling that this doesn't happen as much as it should. Any techs wanna weigh in on my suspicions about places not testing the release values and just using the visual indicators and "feel" to ensure a proper functioning binding?
SofaKingSickGosh even the manual basically says it's an art not a science lol


A tech I talked to said the indicator is just a guide for where you should start out and then adjust by feel based on how easy it is to rotate the heel. I had a boot/binding that had the indicator lined up and the FP was still so loose that it would snap up without even grabbing the heel unless you pulled the binding up by hand.
Dec 9 2021 10:50AM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6594 - Karma: 69,728
HypeBeastEven better, found the tech manual. I find it interesting that the forward pressure is messed up, however aren't shops supposed to do binding release tests when they install/adjust bindings? I got a feeling that this doesn't happen as much as it should. Any techs wanna weigh in on my suspicions about places not testing the release values and just using the visual indicators and "feel" to ensure a proper functioning binding?




It's possible that despite your fwd pressure being so jacked that it still passed the test, the torque values have a huge range of like +- 10%. Wild that the pivot manual says ignore the indicator lol that's about how I adjust mine. Tighten till the heel can't rotate and the boot snaps in when the dildo's about horizontal
Dec 9 2021 2:14PM
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Chunderface
Posts: 2471 - Karma: 9,608
Lolllll at that manual.
Dec 9 2021 7:05PM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6735 - Karma: 58,156
Forgive me if I missed someone else saying it, but just eyeballing it - your dildo goes out at an angle that shows forward pressure is too high. dildo should be more upright
Dec 10 2021 1:08AM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9788 - Karma: 72,394
animatorSo my 2 cents as a tech are whenever I mount or adjust a pair of these, I will ALWAYS test them. The reason for that is because even when adjusting the forward pressure word for word from the tech manual, Ive personally had a ton of issues with the forward pressure not being correct. In my experience the white tab on the back of the heel is very unreliable and therefore I adjust the heelpiece to where I can engage the boot and it sits correctly in the binding, and then I test both bindings twice. This is a surefire way to ensure that the binding is good. Going purely off of the tab has led to a lot of prerelease for me so thats my method (which requires a shop with knowledge of the binding which unfortunately is not every shop).


Is the binding supposed to be in wtr or alpine for grip walk soles? The way I read that manual is grip walk should be alpine. I noticed this today and they have it set to wtr


Dec 14 2021 8:30PM
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animator
Posts: 4547 - Karma: 26,213
HypeBeastIs the binding supposed to be in wtr or alpine for grip walk soles? The way I read that manual is grip walk should be alpine. I noticed this today and they have it set to wtr




If you have the Alpine/WTR version of the Pivot 12/14, it must be set to Alpine for GripWalk soles, per the Look Technicians Manual.
Dec 14 2021 8:59PM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9788 - Karma: 72,394
animatorIf you have the Alpine/WTR version of the Pivot 12/14, it must be set to Alpine for GripWalk soles, per the Look Technicians Manual.

WOW. I was gonna chalk this up to a tech who just was too eager but they literally didn't even do that right. I wasn't gonna say anything but now I'm def calling them. I figured out tonight they just cranked the forward pressure until it hit the two marks on the bottom of the boot but in reality the white tab isn't even close when they're properly set. You shouldn't have to check binding functionality after getting them professionally done. Tf. @eheath for the post in the other thread about that tab
Dec 14 2021 9:09PM
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Chunderface
Posts: 2471 - Karma: 9,608
God I really fucking hate shops.
Dec 14 2021 10:06PM
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animator
Posts: 4547 - Karma: 26,213
HypeBeastWOW. I was gonna chalk this up to a tech who just was too eager but they literally didn't even do that right. I wasn't gonna say anything but now I'm def calling them. I figured out tonight they just cranked the forward pressure until it hit the two marks on the bottom of the boot but in reality the white tab isn't even close when they're properly set. You shouldn't have to check binding functionality after getting them professionally done. Tf. @eheath for the post in the other thread about that tab


The white tab is moot, I find on a lot of pivots that are used the white tab is really not reliable. I for the most part ignore that, adjust the heel piece per the manual, then test and adjust from there. If you go purely off of the white tab, most of the time the forward pressure is not nearly enough
Dec 14 2021 10:11PM
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