Full Tilt to be branded as K2 boots?

c4deStupid move for K2 keeping full tilt as a separate brand was the best thing they could have done. Curious if harlaut will stick with k2 boots and run their skis or stay with Amer and run atomic boots

As an American I hope he and Casabon stay with K2 but i bet they follow the money/opportunity...

Dude why is anyone debating this?? They will 100% stick with K2 lol

ReturnToMonkeyAs an American I hope he and Casabon stay with K2 but i bet they follow the money/opportunity...

BradFiAusNzCoCaDude why is anyone debating this?? They will 100% stick with K2 lol

Why do you say this? (You're part of this debate now)

Because it is a boot that was developed in conjunction with them and it’ll be the same boot. It wouldn’t be in K2/FT interest to lose them. Plus atomic doesn’t have 3 piece unless they use a QST boot haha

ReturnToMonkeyWhy do you say this? (You're part of this debate now)

So you believe that K2 will retain their promodels?

BradFiAusNzCoCaBecause it is a boot that was developed in conjunction with them and it’ll be the same boot. It wouldn’t be in K2/FT interest to lose them. Plus atomic doesn’t have 3 piece unless they use a QST boot haha

Nobody has anywhere near enough information to claim that x pro skier will change brands, or x product won't exist next year. "Limited boot offering" could mean literally anything and if they dump their team, then they clearly weren't doing well financially.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't FT only have 3 shells: the classic, ascendant and descendant? My interpretation of the original tweet is that they aren't going to discontinue those. They will just put a K2 logo on them.

SkibumsmithSomebody please correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't FT only have 3 shells: the classic, ascendant and descendant? My interpretation of the original tweet is that they aren't going to discontinue those. They will just put a K2 logo on them.

It's amazing what some critical thinking will accomplish haha

This makes pretty good sense and I'd be surprised if they drop any of their shells. FT line is bloated anyway with pro models that are just confusing.

Putting FT under a k2 brand ain't an issue - park rats can still buy them but it will likely expand market of people who are interested.

FT are generally seen as 'park boots' by general public - and tbh they may have tainted the whole 3 piece shell from a marketing perspectice, I have mates who see a krypton 130 and call them a floppy park boot because they are 3 piece. Those dudes might love an FT boot but likely won't even try them.

I’m not saying that but their pro models are just the same boot with a different liner. Very easy to do. No reason for them to leave

ReturnToMonkeySo you believe that K2 will retain their promodels?

Although I don't know details about FT or K2's future plans, I can definitely explain some of the common strategy and reasoning as to why businesses would do something like this.

Remember K2 is owned by a private equity firm, not us skiers, or its employees. Firms like this have one very simple goal... buy a brand cheap, then do whatever it takes to make as much money as you can growing it as quickly as you can, while spending as little as you can, (squeeze blood from a stone) so you can show big financial results and sell it for even more profit 3-5 years later. Sometimes this is done by consolidating multiple brands into one, keeping only the best performing assets, other times it's done by acquiring a lot of different brands like K2 Sports previous owned by the public company Newell with their portfolio of brands prior to breaking some of them up and selling K2 Sports to the current owners at this equity firm.

Of course it's very important to be a financially profitable business, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with running a business to make money! But this is an example of big big big picture financial goals being prioritized as far more important than a brand's heritage, contributions to skiers and the sport of skiing and the profit is does currently make.

So how does dissolving one brand and moving some of its key products into another achieve this?

Imagine running 1 brand vs 2. You automatically have 2x the expenses paying for marketing, product development, sales, trade shows, events, athletes, promotions, manufacturing tooling, operations, blah blah. IF you actually achieved 2x the sales, then it's all worth it! But when 1 brand is selling 20k boots and the other sells 100k boots, yet expenses are similar, that's where someone at the top looks at a spreadsheet one day and says... WTF?! I'm not saying FT is 20% the size of K2 but I assure you it takes far more effort to sell far fewer FT boots than the same boot with a K2 logo on it, simple as that.

Reality is, it's hard as hell to convince a ski shop to sell as many FT boots as K2 boots. It also takes a ton more work for a ski shop to convince a consumer to give a brand they never bought from a try. That's no reason to shut down a brand... but if your goal is to make as much money as possible spending as little as possible and you don't put much value on its brand equity... then these are the super high level corporate decisions that get made.

As a stand alone private company FT would prosper, it's simply currently living under the wrong roof with unreasonable expectations. Remember I was tasked with creating the FT brand, I ran it from 2006-2013 working for K2. The first thing the President of K2 Sports Robert Markovitch told me was, your goal is to help us figure out the boot business, once we sell 20k pair, we will have learned enough to start K2 boots. Well we achieved that many years ago and it's been awesome to see K2 enter the boot market and do well! I personally think both brands compliment each other perfectly, attacking the market from opposite sides, but end of the day... it's less about skiing, and only about the bottom line for Kohlberg & Co.

I'm honestly extremely impressed by how legit FT has become in recent years. Product looks amazing, website, marketing all look better than ever! Huge congratulations to the whole crew at FT and the athletes, and customers who made FT the one and only ultimate rebel ski boot brand, like no other ever has been... or will ever be. You all made it happen!🤘

SkibumsmithSomebody please correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't FT only have 3 shells: the classic, ascendant and descendant? My interpretation of the original tweet is that they aren't going to discontinue those. They will just put a K2 logo on them.

correction: the classic shell is the original raichle mold with updated buckles tongues etc, the soul is the updated version of the classic with a wider toe box and replaceable soles, and the descendant is the 102mm wide boot that was introduced in 2014 or 15. The ascendant is not classified as a different shell because it differs from the descendant only by the rear cuff, addition of a walk mode and tech inserts.

"don't cry because it's over smile because it happened"

eheathNobody has anywhere near enough information to claim that x pro skier will change brands, or x product won't exist next year. "Limited boot offering" could mean literally anything and if they dump their team, then they clearly weren't doing well financially.

Yeah in retrospect i feel like an idiot

JLevAlthough I don't know details about FT or K2's future plans, I can definitely explain some of the common strategy and reasoning as to why businesses would do something like this.

Remember K2 is owned by a private equity firm, not us skiers, or its employees. Firms like this have one very simple goal... buy a brand cheap, then do whatever it takes to make as much money as you can growing it as quickly as you can, while spending as little as you can, (squeeze blood from a stone) so you can show big financial results and sell it for even more profit 3-5 years later. Sometimes this is done by consolidating multiple brands into one, keeping only the best performing assets, other times it's done by acquiring a lot of different brands like K2 Sports previous owned by the public company Newell with their portfolio of brands prior to breaking some of them up and selling K2 Sports to the current owners at this equity firm.

Of course it's very important to be a financially profitable business, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with running a business to make money! But this is an example of big big big picture financial goals being prioritized as far more important than a brand's heritage, contributions to skiers and the sport of skiing and the profit is does currently make.

So how does dissolving one brand and moving some of its key products into another achieve this?

Imagine running 1 brand vs 2. You automatically have 2x the expenses paying for marketing, product development, sales, trade shows, events, athletes, promotions, manufacturing tooling, operations, blah blah. IF you actually achieved 2x the sales, then it's all worth it! But when 1 brand is selling 20k boots and the other sells 100k boots, yet expenses are similar, that's where someone at the top looks at a spreadsheet one day and says... WTF?! I'm not saying FT is 20% the size of K2 but I assure you it takes far more effort to sell far fewer FT boots than the same boot with a K2 logo on it, simple as that.

Reality is, it's hard as hell to convince a ski shop to sell as many FT boots as K2 boots. It also takes a ton more work for a ski shop to convince a consumer to give a brand they never bought from a try. That's no reason to shut down a brand... but if your goal is to make as much money as possible spending as little as possible and you don't put much value on its brand equity... then these are the super high level corporate decisions that get made.

As a stand alone private company FT would prosper, it's simply currently living under the wrong roof with unreasonable expectations. Remember I was tasked with creating the FT brand, I ran it from 2006-2013 working for K2. The first thing the President of K2 Sports Robert Markovitch told me was, your goal is to help us figure out the boot business, once we sell 20k pair, we will have learned enough to start K2 boots. Well we achieved that many years ago and it's been awesome to see K2 enter the boot market and do well! I personally think both brands compliment each other perfectly, attacking the market from opposite sides, but end of the day... it's less about skiing, and only about the bottom line for Kohlberg & Co.

I'm honestly extremely impressed by how legit FT has become in recent years. Product looks amazing, website, marketing all look better than ever! Huge congratulations to the whole crew at FT and the athletes, and customers who made FT the one and only ultimate rebel ski boot brand, like no other ever has been... or will ever be. You all made it happen!🤘

For the record K2s initial entry into the boot market was awful on my opinion. Their boots were heavy they fit weird and they were overpriced. With the new Recon/Mindbender line they’re a whole lot better, but the Pinnacle/Spyne boots were terrible from my perspective as a fitter

I had pinnacle 110s. They basically fell apart in one season. The stoke decreased as the season went on.

animatorFor the record K2s initial entry into the boot market was awful on my opinion. Their boots were heavy they fit weird and they were overpriced. With the new Recon/Mindbender line they’re a whole lot better, but the Pinnacle/Spyne boots were terrible from my perspective as a fitter

BradFiAusNzCoCaI had pinnacle 110s. They basically fell apart in one season. The stoke decreased as the season went on.

Well it’s not like we’re never going to see the 3 piece boot again they’ll be the same thing just with a k2 logo on them

Came here to cry with tears of sadness over another fallen brand I've been possibly too loyal too. But after reading everyone's thoughts and especially @Jlev post, I get it. It sucks but I totally get it. I was going to wait another year to get new boots but I guess I get one final pair this year

I know. I’ve said that a few times in this thread..

SkiPigeon123Well it’s not like we’re never going to see the 3 piece boot again they’ll be the same thing just with a k2 logo on them

K2 Biz decisions:

1. Drop Seth

2. Drop Pep

3. Drop Fulltilt


Next thing you know they will be manufacturing skis in China!

Oh wait...