Custom on3p Jeffrey 102 is this the ultimate ski?

Tour layup is the tour core and a 1.4 mm base (as opposed to normal 1.8mm) and 2x2mm edges (instead of 2.5x2.5mm). So you'd have a marginal loss in durability which could matter more on a park ski. OP instead you could do a "50/50" layup which is the tour core but standard edge/base size and then go custom soft?

Sego wide 149

I just got the Jeffery 110 and it feels like its flex is already on the soft side.

50/50 layup amazing

keep in mind that the tour layup's thinner edges/bases is actually the same as the industry norm for regular resort skis from most other brands, so not thin or flimsy by any means.

So a tour layup jeff102 would be rounder flexed, lighter version of the standard jeff102. So yeah, it will be a little less bombproof than the regular jeff102s but still on par for the segment. So in essence a lighter and more flickable version than the stock version. They would probably be a lot of fun.

That being said, I would probably opt for the 50/50 layup if you are wanting a slightly lighter ski but want to retain the bombproof standard bases/edges, or opt for a stock layup ski with a modified core (softer option) if you "just" want them to be slightly softer. I would think that the 50/50 or standard layups are the more appropriate layups to handle the abuse dished out by park shredding, even if the tours will be no worse than most park skis on the market wrt durability.

last but not least, there will be dedicated park skis from ON3P in the 2022 lineup. I have no idea when they will be released nor do I know any specifics wrt shapes/lengths, but it could be worth it to wait for bit and see what is released. The custom sale will surely be on for a few more weeks (iggy usually lets us know before it is done for the season, at least over at TGR), so no great rush. :)

kid-kapowkeep in mind that the tour layup's thinner edges/bases is actually the same as the industry norm for regular resort skis from most other brands, so not thin or flimsy by any means.

So a tour layup jeff102 would be rounder flexed, lighter version of the standard jeff102. So yeah, it will be a little less bombproof than the regular jeff102s but still on par for the segment. So in essence a lighter and more flickable version than the stock version. They would probably be a lot of fun.

That being said, I would probably opt for the 50/50 layup if you are wanting a slightly lighter ski but want to retain the bombproof standard bases/edges, or opt for a stock layup ski with a modified core (softer option) if you "just" want them to be slightly softer. I would think that the 50/50 or standard layups are the more appropriate layups to handle the abuse dished out by park shredding, even if the tours will be no worse than most park skis on the market wrt durability.

last but not least, there will be dedicated park skis from ON3P in the 2022 lineup. I have no idea when they will be released nor do I know any specifics wrt shapes/lengths, but it could be worth it to wait for bit and see what is released. The custom sale will surely be on for a few more weeks (iggy usually lets us know before it is done for the season, at least over at TGR), so no great rush. :)

Great idea thanks for the help, will definitely wait to see what’s released

I have a pair of 186 Jeffrey 108 50/50s (with tour core). They ski the hard snow really great. I would strongly advise against using that ski in the park though. That core just wont be as strong as a 100% bamboo core. The stock/bamboo core will be much stronger in handling hard impacts, rails, butters, etc..

paulownia is wood that is used in lots and lots of skis (from ON3P, Icelantic, Moment, Line, and so on) and snowboards (throughout Mervin's range - aka Lib and Gnu) usually mixed with other types of wood such as bamboo, ash, maple or aspen. Its use is not limited to touring skis.

In this case I would assume that the extra thick bases took up the slack compared to other wood cores used in skis from other manufacturers or bamboo. There is also not a huge difference in density between bamboo and paulownia. Some claim it is the tree with the heighest strenght to weight ratio of all trees and others have found that has similar properties to poplar, the he most commonly used species of wood for ski cores according to 4FRNT. 4FRNT also specify that they add paulownia to poplar cores to decrease weight while also increasing the torsional strength.

So based on my understanding paulownia seem like a realtively suitable core material for the use. So why do you strongly recommend against it? Have you had issues after use with your skis?

The reason I ask is not to call you, but but to understand where you are coming from. Especially as I would not hesitate to do anything with 50/50 ON3Ps that I do on standard layup ON3Ps. :)

Alright I'll address all of this. Keep in mind, sure you could ski park on a 50/50 or a tour and they probably would a pretty fun park ski given how light they are, but the "tour core" is not going to be as durable as the "stock" core. Bamboo is just a stronger material. Losing grams is not free, but paulownia is a pretty good trade off. Paulownia is quite a bit lighter (less dense) compared to bamboo and is not as strong as bamboo.

kid-kapowpaulownia is wood that is used in lots and lots of skis (from ON3P, Icelantic, Moment, Line, and so on) and snowboards (throughout Mervin's range - aka Lib and Gnu) usually mixed with other types of wood such as bamboo, ash, maple or aspen. Its use is not limited to touring skis.

Most of what ON3P builds uses a 100% bamboo core. The only time paulownia is used is when weight savings is an objective. I can't speak to other brands but at ON3P paulownia is only used when the ski is intended to do well going both uphill and downhill.

kid-kapowIn this case I would assume that the extra thick bases took up the slack compared to other wood cores used in skis from other manufacturers or bamboo. There is also not a huge difference in density between bamboo and paulownia. Some claim it is the tree with the heighest strenght to weight ratio of all trees and others have found that has similar properties to poplar, the he most commonly used species of wood for ski cores according to 4FRNT. 4FRNT also specify that they add paulownia to poplar cores to decrease weight while also increasing the torsional strength.

The advantage of a 50/50 layup (thicker base/edge) vs the tour layup (thinner base/edge) is really to give better impact resistance to rocks, stumps, etc... The thicker UHMW and steel does slightly stiffen the ski, but it mainly adds weight and increases impact resistance. We were hesitant for a long time to build a ski with thinner base and edge since ON3P is predicated on durability, but we wanted to build a competitive touring ski and realized how much weight could be saved by going to a thinner base and edge. When we started testing the tour cores, torsional rigidity was a factor at the top of our mind, and torsionally the tour cores hold up to the stock cores. This has to do with the spacing of the bamboo stringers in the core, the mount plate, and the triaxial fiberglass.

I'm not sure about the weights and densities listed in that thread. If you go to wood-database.com, paulownia is listed density at 280 kg/m3. Bamboo density is listed with a range of 500-850 kg/m3. At ON3P we have found our paulownia to be slightly lighter than these figures and the bamboo in the lighter side of the 500-850 range. If you look at the elastic modulus, paulownia is listed at 635,000 lbf/in2 and bamboo at 2,610,000 lbf/in2. A real world example of this is how easy it is to break a piece of paulownia vs how difficult it is to break a piece of bamboo... bamboo just bends and paulownia snaps. In comparison to paulownia, bamboo is a little more than twice as dense, yet based on the elastic modulus about 4 times as strong.

kid-kapowSo based on my understanding paulownia seem like a realtively suitable core material for the use. So why do you strongly recommend against it? Have you had issues after use with your skis?

The reason I ask is not to call you, but but to understand where you are coming from. Especially as I would not hesitate to do anything with 50/50 ON3Ps that I do on standard layup ON3Ps. :)

I think paulownia is a great material and very suitable core material. I was pretty pretty blown away with how well it skied. I would just hesitate at using it in the park.. or any time the ski will be taking heavy impacts, I just know that bamboo reacts better to a folding impact. I have never had any issues with my skis nor have my friends... Its just what I layed out before that makes me want to steer people away from it. I'm sure you could get away with riding the 50/50 or tour in the park but I also think that 100% bamboo meets the conditions of park riding much better than paulownia.

holy crap - that was a fantastic answer that I learned a lot from! Thanks for taking the time to elaborate on your experiences!

Would it be ok if I quoted your reply and posted it in the ON3P thread over on TGR as well? I am sure a lot of mags are very interested in learning more about the properties of the various core constructions as as well.

kid-kapowholy crap - that was a fantastic answer that I learned a lot from! Thanks for taking the time to elaborate on your experiences!

Would it be ok if I quoted your reply and posted it in the ON3P thread over on TGR as well? I am sure a lot of mags are very interested in learning more about the properties of the various core constructions as as well.

Cheers. I love nerding out and talking ski construction, usually someone else on the forum beats me to it. Sure you can quote this post over on TGR... I will say that I'm not a big poster either place though.. I post on NS once or twice a year, and havent posted to TGR in 5+ years

sweet - thanks. I am sure that mags in the ON3P thread will enjoy getting the info directly from a guy who is involved in process. I know I did. Thanks again for taking the time to write such an informative answer - def made my day :)

much better than the left rear wheel on my Syncro that decided it wanted some time alone during my drive today. Yeah, it kind of worked out, but it could have ended pretty badly. I dunno why it happened though, which is the sucky part.

Ive got the jeffrey 108 in a softer flex, and a tad flatter camber/more rocker profile, standard layup, 186 length mounted very centered an I love it as a park ski. im 5'11 so the length is a little much but otherwise they crush. if you're not interested in getting super technical the weights not an issue, still easy enough to whip around fast 270's on and such.
I much prefer their softer flex to the standard, its still not a soft ski, but you can flex them out if you put some effort in unlike the standard flex.

kid-kapowlast but not least, there will be dedicated park skis from ON3P in the 2022 lineup. I have no idea when they will be released nor do I know any specifics wrt shapes/lengths, but it could be worth it to wait for bit and see what is released. The custom sale will surely be on for a few more weeks (iggy usually lets us know before it is done for the season, at least over at TGR), so no great rush. :)

Isn't the magnus a park specific ski? Do they just wanna try and make a different style of park ski?

I don’t have ON3Ps but I have some 100% bamboo core skis and you just really made me want to ride them right now.

I love bamboo cores.

Caveman.Alright I'll address all of this. Keep in mind, sure you could ski park on a 50/50 or a tour and they probably would a pretty fun park ski given how light they are, but the "tour core" is not going to be as durable as the "stock" core. Bamboo is just a stronger material. Losing grams is not free, but paulownia is a pretty good trade off. Paulownia is quite a bit lighter (less dense) compared to bamboo and is not as strong as bamboo.

Most of what ON3P builds uses a 100% bamboo core. The only time paulownia is used is when weight savings is an objective. I can't speak to other brands but at ON3P paulownia is only used when the ski is intended to do well going both uphill and downhill.

The advantage of a 50/50 layup (thicker base/edge) vs the tour layup (thinner base/edge) is really to give better impact resistance to rocks, stumps, etc... The thicker UHMW and steel does slightly stiffen the ski, but it mainly adds weight and increases impact resistance. We were hesitant for a long time to build a ski with thinner base and edge since ON3P is predicated on durability, but we wanted to build a competitive touring ski and realized how much weight could be saved by going to a thinner base and edge. When we started testing the tour cores, torsional rigidity was a factor at the top of our mind, and torsionally the tour cores hold up to the stock cores. This has to do with the spacing of the bamboo stringers in the core, the mount plate, and the triaxial fiberglass.

I'm not sure about the weights and densities listed in that thread. If you go to wood-database.com, paulownia is listed density at 280 kg/m3. Bamboo density is listed with a range of 500-850 kg/m3. At ON3P we have found our paulownia to be slightly lighter than these figures and the bamboo in the lighter side of the 500-850 range. If you look at the elastic modulus, paulownia is listed at 635,000 lbf/in2 and bamboo at 2,610,000 lbf/in2. A real world example of this is how easy it is to break a piece of paulownia vs how difficult it is to break a piece of bamboo... bamboo just bends and paulownia snaps. In comparison to paulownia, bamboo is a little more than twice as dense, yet based on the elastic modulus about 4 times as strong.

I think paulownia is a great material and very suitable core material. I was pretty pretty blown away with how well it skied. I would just hesitate at using it in the park.. or any time the ski will be taking heavy impacts, I just know that bamboo reacts better to a folding impact. I have never had any issues with my skis nor have my friends... Its just what I layed out before that makes me want to steer people away from it. I'm sure you could get away with riding the 50/50 or tour in the park but I also think that 100% bamboo meets the conditions of park riding much better than paulownia.

Piss_BoyIsn't the magnus a park specific ski? Do they just wanna try and make a different style of park ski?

oh they are for sure, but they are only offered through customs currently. The 2022 park lineup has yet to be launched - I have no idea when it will be, but it will surely be worth the wait.

There have been some slight changes for most of the other skis compared to the 2021 lineup, so it would not surprise me if some tweaks are coming to the park skis as well. ;)

Skiblade420It seems like the 191 option would be a good tall guy park ski. My question is would this feel similar to a mag if I ordered with softer flex?

also is there a disadvantage in the park to get the tour layup? The 191 is 2130g per ski. The tour layup takes 250 - 400 grams off the weight per ski.

Maybe that takes idk 300 grams off? Leaving the weight at 1830 per ski.

did I just create the perfect park ski or am I tripping out?

I used the stock Jeffrey 102s this past season and they're sick but I wouldn't necessarily recommend them to someone who is specifically using them for park. I found that they are pretty stiff so I think applying a custom layup would be very beneficial. If you want speed and stability through crud/groomers I'd leave them stock, but if you want more play I'd use a softer core.

Holy shit this is an interesting read