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WARNING: Destroy Your Pieps DSP Beacons

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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,545
To make sure everyone is aware: the Pieps DSP Beacons/Transceivers are consistently switching modes while stowed properly. If you haven't heard the story specifically, Nick McNutt's ski partners think his beacon switched off during the avalanche, which resulted in the full burial. Nick's beacon had been checked at the trailhead.

Since putting stories out on social media, everyone is hearing more and more fail stories of DSP Sport and Pro avalanche transceivers. A lot of folks just thought "oh shit, I guess mine is being funky, must be my fault." I've personally heard from a half-dozen or so friends who have seen the same issue.

IF YOU HAVE A DSP PRO OR SPORT BEACON: keep that shit in a drawer.

Also, consider emailing Black Diamond and Pieps requesting an exchange for a transceiver that will work under stress.

Ideally, Black Diamond, Pieps, and/or their parent company Clarus Corp will issue a mandatory recall notice on all DSP Sport or Pro models and immediately discontinue sales. This is a beacon that has a huge potential to fail during the times you need it most. This is a model that carries potentially criminal negligence due to the manufacturing errors.

However, they haven't done this yet. So, it might be helpful for their office folks to know how unsafe their product is.

If you need help finding the email addresses of Clarus Corporation employees, feel free to DM me.

TLDR: Don't use that shit, your life depends on it. Don't let your friends, their lives depend on it. Go raise hell until we have a safe product.
Oct 11 2020 6:00PM
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Tripleblacks
Posts: 120 - Karma: 599
Well my money will not be going to black diamond until they step up and fix this shit. It is really crappy that their response is some bullshit instagram post.
Oct 16 2020 10:06PM
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animator
Posts: 4547 - Karma: 26,209
RIP_leos_shackMy sailing coach from university was killed in an avalanche because his Pieps DPS beacon failed in the same way. When his widow tried to bring up the issue, she was stifled by Black Diamond who threatened to sue her if she went public to the media. Hopefully someone with a greater profile and social media presence can bring about some real change. In the meantime, I'm calling for a total boycott of Black Diamond.


This is disgusting that a company would do this
Oct 16 2020 10:33PM
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snowcrunch
Posts: 5 - Karma: 15
A lot of irony in the fact that I am only getting Black Diamond Pipes ads on this site.

Pieps DSP user here, obviously need to replace it (Mammut?) but am annoyed that Pieps/BD is not offering a recall/tradein program.
Oct 18 2020 8:35PM
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,785
snowcrunchPieps DSP user here, obviously need to replace it (Mammut?) but am annoyed that Pieps/BD is not offering a recall/tradein program.


I wouldn’t give up on that. I’m seeing this issue be posted by non backcountry and non skier friends on IG. I think Pieps is fucked unless they address this head on.

A “user error” that they enabled that doesn’t happen on any other beacon? Don’t think that argument is gonna hold up for em
Oct 18 2020 9:30PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 36738 - Karma: 111,154
snowcrunchA lot of irony in the fact that I am only getting Black Diamond Pipes ads on this site.

Pieps DSP user here, obviously need to replace it (Mammut?) but am annoyed that Pieps/BD is not offering a recall/tradein program.

I tried reaching out to an online retailer I bought mine from and requested some sort of refund or some way to send it back and got no info back on it, and was told to reach out to BD/Pieps for the same copy-and-paste email response. Maybe this week theyll issue a statement, but this thing shouldnt go quietly into the night. BD needs to face the music over this
Oct 19 2020 12:44PM
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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,545
On Thursday of last week I had a call with Rick Vance, Head of Quality for BD & Pieps. It was a decent call about standards, bench testing, and BD's failure to respond properly. Rick had told me that they were in full crisis mode and planning to announce a recall "today or tomorrow" (Thursday or Friday).


Obviously, we've heard fuck-all from BD since then, but we've heard increasingly dire stories confirming that this defect has been in play for a number of years now.

I've followed up with Rick directly a number of times and have not heard anything back. This is unacceptable.

Keep raising hell, we cannot have anyone riding with these beacons this season.

**This post was edited on Oct 19th 2020 at 4:20:00pm
Oct 19 2020 4:16PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13060 - Karma: 18,420
Troy.On Thursday of last week I had a call with Rick Vance, Head of Quality for BD & Pieps. It was a decent call about standards, bench testing, and BD's failure to respond properly. Rick had told me that they were in full crisis mode and planning to announce a recall "today or tomorrow" (Thursday or Friday).


Obviously, we've heard fuck-all from BD since then, but we've heard increasingly dire stories confirming that this defect has been in play for a number of years now.

I've followed up with Rick directly a number of times and have not heard anything back. This is unacceptable.

Keep raising hell, we cannot have anyone riding with these beacons this season.

**This post was edited on Oct 19th 2020 at 4:20:00pm

Keep up the good work man. You are a hero for all of us.
Oct 19 2020 4:22PM
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r00kie
Posts: 5212 - Karma: 59,091
Troy.On Thursday of last week I had a call with Rick Vance, Head of Quality for BD & Pieps. It was a decent call about standards, bench testing, and BD's failure to respond properly. Rick had told me that they were in full crisis mode and planning to announce a recall "today or tomorrow" (Thursday or Friday).


Obviously, we've heard fuck-all from BD since then, but we've heard increasingly dire stories confirming that this defect has been in play for a number of years now.

I've followed up with Rick directly a number of times and have not heard anything back. This is unacceptable.

Keep raising hell, we cannot have anyone riding with these beacons this season.

**This post was edited on Oct 19th 2020 at 4:20:00pm


Never thought I would say it but....fuck Black Diamond
Oct 19 2020 4:23PM
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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,545
Troy.Hey @SFBv420.0 , sensational headlines aren't my personal flavor; I fuckin wish I didn't have to.

Given that the ski community is as tight-knit as it is, I'm hesitant to post direct receipts, but if you had clicked any of the links in this thread, you would have found the CarFax

**This post was edited on Oct 21st 2020 at 6:38:25pm


Hey all, my original post here had mentioned a widespread issue at Mt Hood Meadows and it appears I may have misunderstood the severity. I’ve deleted my comments earlier and will work on gerring clarity here.

apologies for any confusion.
Oct 21 2020 6:39PM
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SkiingNinja
Posts: 1964 - Karma: 880
I heard back from them on the “upgrade” they offered concerned DSP users. I have to pay $100 to upgrade. Half-assed. They are losing so many customers. Getting a BCA T4 or Barryvox and keeping the pieps as a target practice device only.
Oct 26 2020 10:24AM
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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,545
SkiingNinjaI heard back from them on the “upgrade” they offered concerned DSP users. I have to pay $100 to upgrade. Half-assed. They are losing so many customers. Getting a BCA T4 or Barryvox and keeping the pieps as a target practice device only.


Can you post a screenshot of your email?!
Oct 26 2020 11:27AM
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SkiingNinja
Posts: 1964 - Karma: 880
Troy.Can you post a screenshot of your email?!






My beacon is over two years old, so they are treating it as an out-of-warranty upgrade instead of a design flaw / recall. In other words, they classify it as reasonable wear and tear and are not taking responsibility for the design.
Oct 26 2020 1:34PM
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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,545
SkiingNinja



My beacon is over two years old, so they are treating it as an out-of-warranty upgrade instead of a design flaw / recall. In other words, they classify it as reasonable wear and tear and are not taking responsibility for the design.


Oh my god this is disgusting
Oct 26 2020 2:19PM
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Yung_Gnarley
Posts: 9091 - Karma: 3,017
D E S T R O Y
Oct 27 2020 10:35AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51307 - Karma: 158,059
Well fuck
Oct 27 2020 4:39PM
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9116 - Karma: 65,382
Troy.Oh my god this is disgusting


Yup, they clearly want to try to avoid claiming liability for any deaths that have resulted from this faulty design. Black Diamond is a company, not a charity group, and if they claim any sort of responsibility, they are immediately wide open to a class action lawsuit. They are still wide open for one anyway, but they can try to make the argument that this was because of user error, and are therefore not liable.
Oct 27 2020 4:55PM
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,785
Their response is fucking heinous. Returned mine and my dads at MEC (they took them back no questions asked) and got on the tracker train. Apparently we were the third DSP return the employee had seen that day. Have warned so many people and a couple have DSPs and are now replacing. Pieps is done.
Oct 27 2020 9:16PM
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Coloradical
Posts: 673 - Karma: 180
I mean did something hit mcnutts beacon pretty hard on the way down or throughout the day? Perhaps in the past?
Oct 27 2020 9:21PM
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r00kie
Posts: 5212 - Karma: 59,091
ColoradicalI mean did something hit mcnutts beacon pretty hard on the way down or throughout the day? Perhaps in the past?


Idk, maybe a hard hike like a fucking avalanche? Also if you watch the ig video on pieps page featuring the VP of quality, you'll see how little force it takes to override the switch lock, let alone if its even a little worn out. The design is inherently flawed.

**This post was edited on Oct 27th 2020 at 10:07:59pm
Oct 27 2020 10:07PM
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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,545
ColoradicalI mean did something hit mcnutts beacon pretty hard on the way down or throughout the day? Perhaps in the past?


Seems you replied without checking the CarFax first, mate.

McNutt's switched off during the avalanche after a beacon check prior to dropping in.

Other folks, like @ModMommy saw theirs switch off during a skin while in the proper holster.

Other folks have done a proper test with a force-gauge and found it took 800g of force

**This post was edited on Oct 28th 2020 at 11:11:31am
Oct 28 2020 1:29AM
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FapMasterFLEX
Posts: 608 - Karma: 333
just got this reply yesterday. Mine is under 2 years so it seems like the upgrade is free.
Oct 28 2020 8:51AM
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Coloradical
Posts: 673 - Karma: 180
Well that's not good
Troy.Seems you replied without checking the CarFax first, mate.

McNutt's switched off during the avalanche after a beacon check prior to dropping in.

Other folks, like @ModMommy saw theirs switch off during a skin while in the proper holster.

Other folks have done a proper test with a force-gauge and found it took 800g of force (
Oct 28 2020 10:47AM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 36738 - Karma: 111,154
anyone have any luck trying to get theirs sent back to online retailers for a refund at least? like if BD/Pieps is just going to give people the typical corporate lawyer runaround and you're gonna still sell a faulty product, at least give the people who bought the product their money back.
Oct 28 2020 1:24PM
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,785
DeebieSkeebiesanyone have any luck trying to get theirs sent back to online retailers for a refund at least? like if BD/Pieps is just going to give people the typical corporate lawyer runaround and you're gonna still sell a faulty product, at least give the people who bought the product their money back.


Mountain Equipment Coop in Canada did a full refund on mine from early 2018. That might offer a precedent for you to make your case elsewhere?
Oct 28 2020 3:25PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 36738 - Karma: 111,154
KevskiMountain Equipment Coop in Canada did a full refund on mine from early 2018. That might offer a precedent for you to make your case elsewhere?

Right on. Evo has their 365+1 return/refund policy that does include things that are "Broken and Defective" for anyone else wondering that also purchased something through them. Im sure they probably dont like being in a possibly compromising position but it also could get more people to press BD/Pieps to do something.
Oct 28 2020 7:35PM
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9116 - Karma: 65,382
https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/977845/The-Day-Nick-McNutt-Nearly-Died-in-An-Avalanche
Interesting that all they say in the vid is: the beacon failed. I get that TGR is a company and probably doesn't want to open themselves up to lawsuits, but all they needed to have said was, this was the beacon model that Nick was wearing, and here's what we know happened. They didn't need to say anything about a recall, or anything about how you shouldn't wear it, let people make up their minds for themselves, but at least say something!
Oct 29 2020 5:44PM
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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,545
.

**This post was edited on Oct 29th 2020 at 8:56:37pm
Oct 29 2020 6:19PM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,956
Bump.

Anyone got any updates on the recall/upgrade process? Ski season is easing in here, and I've inspected the function of my DSP beacon and not sure if I should try to do the upgrade.
Nov 13 2020 10:24AM
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Denseclouds
Posts: 495 - Karma: 2,843
FapMasterFLEXjust got this reply yesterday. Mine is under 2 years so it seems like the upgrade is free.


Well??
Nov 15 2020 3:08AM
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steezbox
Posts: 1394 - Karma: 701
Kind if off topic, but this whole debacle has me second guessing buying anything pieps. Just found a good deal for a brand new Pieps powder BST some guy is selling, but my trust for anything they make is now kind of shot. I at least dont feel bad because buying second hand doesnt give them any more money, but im not fucking around with a faulty beacon. Do the rest of their products still hold up? Am i safe to be getting their other beacons?
Nov 15 2020 12:58PM
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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,545
No.QuarterBump.

Anyone got any updates on the recall/upgrade process? Ski season is easing in here, and I've inspected the function of my DSP beacon and not sure if I should try to do the upgrade.


Nothing yet, they've sat on their hands since the fake-courtesy exchange, hoping this'll blow over (probably).

Personally, I finally pinged them on an exchange about a week ago and haven't heard anything back.
Nov 15 2020 1:10PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 36738 - Karma: 111,154
Troy.Nothing yet, they've sat on their hands since the fake-courtesy exchange, hoping this'll blow over (probably).

Personally, I finally pinged them on an exchange about a week ago and haven't heard anything back.


they're probably banking on being super busy for the holidays coming up with shipocalypse upon us and hope people are so busy that they forget all about this which is even more reason to make sure no more people get this beacon in question cuz its still for sale online

**This post was edited on Nov 15th 2020 at 1:17:58pm
Nov 15 2020 1:16PM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
Troy.Nothing yet, they've sat on their hands since the fake-courtesy exchange, hoping this'll blow over (probably).

Personally, I finally pinged them on an exchange about a week ago and haven't heard anything back.

the dentists over at the adult forum have been recieving new ones and there is much more info there vrs, (car fax) instahoe stories
A lot of experianced folks are shaking their head at the "we thought our risk for the day were done"
mother nature doesnt roll that way
im glad they learned that lesson without a more serious outcome
Nov 15 2020 1:18PM
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Denseclouds
Posts: 495 - Karma: 2,843
Troy.Nothing yet, they've sat on their hands since the fake-courtesy exchange, hoping this'll blow over (probably).

Personally, I finally pinged them on an exchange about a week ago and haven't heard anything back.


I also got the "courtesy exchange" email. Love the wording too -
"For users of the DSP Sport and DSP Pro beacons, we will undertake a thorough inspection of your beacon and, regardless of what we conclude, we will send you a free replacement from our current beacon family. Attached to this email is a pre-paid shipping label for you to send in your beacon for inspection and upgrade. Please clearly label the outside of the return package with RA 308310. Once we receive your beacon, we will contact you regarding a replacement. "

I literally took my beacon in to the black diamond warranty department (thats the address on the return form as all of these requests are being forwarded from pieps directly to BD) and have still not heard anything back..

Keep pressing NS #gangGANG
Nov 15 2020 2:32PM
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Tripleblacks
Posts: 120 - Karma: 599
I received my replacement beacon about a week ago (DSP Pro bt). It works well and has a really good coarse search (I can pick up a beacon at 50 m). That said, I probably will not be purchasing anything from pieps or black diamond in the future. I hope they get these replacement beacons turned around for everyone else.
Nov 15 2020 7:18PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51307 - Karma: 158,059
I feel like even if it works fine on the replacements I'd still be scared. That's the last thing anyone wants to worry about in avy terrain is "will my beacon even help me"
Nov 15 2020 8:11PM
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Tripleblacks
Posts: 120 - Karma: 599
theabortionatorI feel like even if it works fine on the replacements I'd still be scared. That's the last thing anyone wants to worry about in avy terrain is "will my beacon even help me"


To clarify, I do not see any technical issues with the replacement (take this with a grain of salt because I did not notice the switch issue until this thread, big ups to @Troy. for posting). It seems like they have fixed the issues with their previous beacon (the old version also had a very weak tether attachment which they fixed).

My disinterest in purchasing future pieps/black diamond products is based on how they have handled this as well as their general business practices.
Nov 15 2020 8:34PM
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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,545
Well, shitty news gang. Just got the first video confirmation of the Powder BT (new Pieps beacon) having a lock-slide failure.

Trying to get more intel + replication of errors, but this came from a personal friend who patrols in British Columbia.

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/981424/video-1606161065-mp4
Also, every person I've talked to has gotten ghosted by the "courtesy exchange" Pieps offered via social, myself included.
Nov 23 2020 6:21PM
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Denseclouds
Posts: 495 - Karma: 2,843
Talked to a lady at BD's customer service line today and asked for an update since it's been couple weeks since I heard last. She said they were waiting on a shipment of the new beacons and that it had just arrived today, so they should be getting them out soon. To be honest she didn't sound very confident, even a little uncertain.. Hopefully we can all get our replacements soon. Keep the forum updated on any possible failures in the "replacement model"
Nov 23 2020 6:40PM
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 12429 - Karma: 114,711
https://www.instagram.com/p/CNkhLCvAe1L/
Apr 12 2021 11:18AM
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ModMommy
Posts: 10737 - Karma: 55,683
What a joke. Don't pat them on the back for this, they took way too long to do this.
Apr 12 2021 11:31AM
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guelah_papyrus
Posts: 122 - Karma: 841
Guy in our trip yesterday had one of those. Let him know of the dangers - sure he'll be thrilled once I send him this. Thanks for sharing
Apr 12 2021 11:31AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51307 - Karma: 158,059
Man, they finally posted that on there regular account now that the season is done.
Apr 12 2021 12:04PM
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ModMommy
Posts: 10737 - Karma: 55,683
Bump for the half assed voluntary recall BD did after BCA did a voluntary recall on a product with no associate deaths or incidents. No praise for BD, only frustration it took so long and for making a 10 model recall not a full recall.
Jul 28 2022 3:45PM
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r00kie
Posts: 5212 - Karma: 59,091
safarisamBump for the half assed voluntary recall BD did after BCA did a voluntary recall on a product with no associate deaths or incidents. No praise for BD, only frustration it took so long and for making a 10 model recall not a full recall.


Recieved this email from BD today.

Is this still from the same issue this thread was created for or a new one. Email describes the opposite problem but I have little trust in BD on such issues.
Jul 28 2022 4:04PM
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ModMommy
Posts: 10737 - Karma: 55,683
r00kieRecieved this email from BD today.

Is this still from the same issue this thread was created for or a new one. Email describes the opposite problem but I have little trust in BD on such issues.


New issue, still wouldn’t trust BD with my corpse, sure as shit don’t trust it with my life.
Jul 28 2022 4:29PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 36738 - Karma: 111,154
Honestly how fucking stupid must the people who run BD be? They really thought they could get away with it again....
Jul 29 2022 12:01PM
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skierman
Posts: 8075 - Karma: 4,901
YAY CAPITALISM!
Jul 29 2022 1:09PM
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