PSA consciousness is an ILLUSION

ChadThundercockYou might not be wrong

Profahoben_212Someone got high

.FryConsciousness is real, but the self is an illusion. We are all one, connected to the same ultimate conscience which has spread itself through out countless dimensions and forms of life. Each vessel this universal conscience looks through is equipped with genetic filters which prevent it from experiencing ultimate reality. A worm is far less conscious than a human, but it is still experiencing a form of consciousness which allows it to sense and feel. A tree is conscious as well, but the information it processes is very different from that of a human, although it is still conscious nonetheless. Maybe you meant that on a much larger scale, consciousness is an illusion? That intelligence is sourced in a computer and reality is simulated? We'll never find out. Although, quantum theory has revealed that everything around us could very well be an illusion. It's been observed that electrons don't orbit an atom, but jump from place to place instantaneously, without any movement in between. Nothing else in this universe can be in multiple places all at once. Scientists have even observed that electrons will change their behavior when watched with cameras rather than a human eye. Is reality real? Is consciousness real? I think that consciousness is only as real as reality.

edit: typos

**This post was edited on Mar 21st 2020 at 3:01:09am

DolanReloadedDo you have a link to the statement you made about how electons behavior changes between a camera watching vs a human watching?
sounds interesting and contradictory to what ive read about the measurement problem.

.FryConsciousness is real, but the self is an illusion. We are all one, connected to the same ultimate conscience which has spread itself through out countless dimensions and forms of life. Each vessel this universal conscience looks through is equipped with genetic filters which prevent it from experiencing ultimate reality. A worm is far less conscious than a human, but it is still experiencing a form of consciousness which allows it to sense and feel. A tree is conscious as well, but the information it processes is very different from that of a human, although it is still conscious nonetheless. Maybe you meant that on a much larger scale, consciousness is an illusion? That intelligence is sourced in a computer and reality is simulated? We'll never find out. Although, quantum theory has revealed that everything around us could very well be an illusion. It's been observed that electrons don't orbit an atom, but jump from place to place instantaneously, without any movement in between. Nothing else in this universe can be in multiple places all at once. Scientists have even observed that electrons will change their behavior when watched with cameras rather than a human eye. Is reality real? Is consciousness real? I think that consciousness is only as real as reality.

edit: typos

**This post was edited on Mar 21st 2020 at 3:01:09am

DolanReloadedOn one of my previous screen names i posted something along these lines about how the chemical reactions that control every process in the human body are not fundamentally different from the chemical reactions going on in say a burning match.

theres nothing that happens in the human body that earns a distinction from any normal (what we would consider nonliving) chemical reaction.

This wasnt something taught to me in college—its just one of those questions that comes to you if you are curious enough.

for me, the initial question was, “is there any sort of control over the chemical reactions that occur in the body, or the alternative (which for some people is unthinkable) “is every molecule in your body simoly reacting with the first thing it can react with?” .

For me the former was ludicrous because it reeked of some sort of magical spirituality that i could not stand. The latter made perfect sense—and it led to the realization, that we cant consider ourselves alive.

its somewhat comforting to know youre not alive, because you know the thing that feels like you are here while you are in homeostasis does not go anywhere when you leave homeostasis.

As for consciousness, think in evolutionary terms. Would our massive intellects make sense to us if there hadnt been an innate sense of awareness and self existence that evolved alongside of our massive brains?

think about it this way. What would it be like if we didnt feel like we were “here” or “experiencing” our existence. We would constantly be asking ourselves “why the fuck do i not feel like im here? Why do i have all this mental power and reasoning ability but i dont feel like i exist?”

To me it seems obvious that evolution would get a tight hold of a discrepancy like that so that we didnt just wander off cliffs or go swimming with sharks. In order for your genes to grow your brain into something that protects your survival, a sense of self is necessary. If the brain wasnt capable of convincing us that “we” are “here” , then what leverage would it have to prevent us from doing dangerous things that could threaten the existence of your self?

People always say they “feel alive” when they do dangerous things like base jumping or wingsuiting. The reason they feel alive is because the brain is exerting its leveraged control over you trying to raise the significance of the fact that right now “you exist” and if you jump off this mountain or this building, you might end this existence of yours.

thats why people say they feel alive doing adventure sports like bc skiing or hucking huge cliffs. Never underestimate how much control evolution has had on developimg our brains instinctual thought patterns.


Spark notes- conscioussness is what it is.

**This post was edited on Mar 21st 2020 at 3:03:54am

.Fryhttps://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/02/980227055013.htm

4th paragraph down

NU3R0_PHYS1C1ST“for me, the initial question was, “is there any sort of control over the chemical reactions that occur in the body, or the alternative (which for some people is unthinkable) “is every molecule in your body simoly reacting with the first thing it can react with?””

That’s an interesting one again. Take someone with anxiety. They get nervous thoughts, which then influences say, their facial expression to that of a nervous one. Then people around them treat them based on that expression. Then because people treat them with distrust the problems just got worse.

So thoughts manifest in reality and then create further chemical dismay within something like the dopaminergic system. Epigenetics is what I’m driving at.

I really liked the last part of your paragraphs saying that it’s all a survival mechanism. There’s a theory that language stemmed from small calls for dangerous animals in our primordial selves, which developed into language through metaphors and nouns (the theory is a lot more complex than that)

midwesternmaniacConsciousness is the fabric that holds our universe together and is present within each atom

midwesternmaniacUseless theory

NU3R0_PHYS1C1STYour not wanted in this thread, see look at how Fry replied to my thread, now look at yourself.

And consciousness is absolutely not the fabric that holds the universe, it’s not a fabric at all. And I think people who use that word in regards to of the universe provide an example of a misconception of consciousness.

midwesternmaniacConsciousness is the fabric that holds our universe together and is present within each atom

NU3R0_PHYS1C1STI would say that is a different phenomenon to consciousness.

midwesternmaniacSome ideas help, some enable a dissociation from ones humanity . This happens in almost any school of thought . Empowering beliefs are out there but not all empowering beliefs are healthy or useful .

I speak from a place from being very into ideas like the one in this thread , and while there's some truth in what is said , it's still only half truth , one angle of the puzzle called: life

All this exploring of consciousness and essentially occult knowledge has it's dangers, and i guess I just like to share how I feel with people who remind me of how I spoke in the past .

Calling something like consciousness and illusion is something no one can prove, but if BELIEVED, can change someone still

Words hold power and to belittle the power of your own consciousness does not do you any favors .

midwesternmaniacIm taught consciousness is a form of energy , like I said before . The word fabric was metaphorical. If anything is a PSA it's the fact that consciousness is in everything and the point is if everything is a little alive or conscious you should pretty much treat it all better . Hopefully. An example of not treating things as alive or conscious being harmful is pollution of nature . Human belief can be polluted too

NU3R0_PHYS1C1STYou say you’re taught this, are you at university? Ah I see your line of logic here. I don’t want to be demeaning or condescending but it’s very typical of psychedelic users to think in this manner. I’m not saying it’s wrong to think like that, instead it’s actually beneficial. But it may not be correct, but again the world doesn’t rest on truths does it?

midwesternmaniacThey don't teach you everything in University.. besides , University is ultimately a man made thing . And since you bring psychedelics up, remember that there are long standing cultural contexts with those things. The ways people relate to knowledge has been globally altered by colonial education systems.

NU3R0_PHYS1C1STWhat is seen on psychedelics is not necessarily the inherent truth.

midwesternmaniacWell that's a big claim actually , because anyone who feels they have seen the inherent truth will tell you you're wrong . Plus it totally depends on how. There are types of access you can not buy.

NU3R0_PHYS1C1STIt’s a big claim but it’s not potentially incorrect. What are your thoughts on infinite in relation to what we are talking about?

midwesternmaniacI say my thoughts are this : no matter what powers lay beyond the physical, use of these powers for anything other than restorative or protective reasons , is problematic . The infinite reminds me that faith can be reasonable!

NU3R0_PHYS1C1STThat’s a nice way to put it. I mean for me personally, what is infinite without paradoxes? That is why multiple beliefs can all seem equally valid despite contradictions

midwesternmaniacAre you familiar with the term "archetype"

mattytrumight be useful to draw a momentary, working distinction between consciousness and intelligence.

consciousness, as you pointed out nu3ro, is understood by different people in different ways and seems to be generally understood by the layperson as what a human sees, thinks, etc.

the universal 'intelligence' (which i would refer to as consciousness in a manner similar to midwestern: "the fabric that holds our universe together") is something more akin to what nu3ro was getting at when he said "does every molecule simply react with the first thing it can react with?" this is, in fact, an intelligent process. even though it is happening on the atomic level and our "conscious" mind does not control a random molecular reaction somewhere in our body, that molecule is 'designed' to have certain properties or is quantized in a certain way to have certain reaction potentialities with other atoms or molecules. this is proven to be intelligent because generally, that reaction serves to propagate life! specifically, our human life. even if you put this design down to cold hard evolution, it is undeniable that there is a striving for greater intelligence and order in the organization of our natural world, generation after generation. it's cool how 'personality traits' such as resilience and perseverance come into play here as well.

so, i would say consciousness=intelligence=god (if that's too much just stick with consciousness=intelligence)

in this sense i totally agree that the laypersons definition of consciousness is critically inaccurate and contributes to an anthropocentric, flawed understanding of the workings of our natural world.

LonelyCan we get a @xxACIDTRIPxx and @X_ANKILLA podcast?

NU3R0_PHYS1C1STDon’t compare me to him lol. There’s a difference between fruitatarian conspiracy ramblings and posts on consciousness based on the theories of nuero scientists.

LonelyI'm not. Podcasts are most interesting when the participates have wildly different views.

On another note I think that you would like Behave by Robert Sapkolksy

mattytrumight be useful to draw a momentary, working distinction between consciousness and intelligence.

consciousness, as you pointed out nu3ro, is understood by different people in different ways and seems to be generally understood by the layperson as what a human sees, thinks, etc.

the universal 'intelligence' (which i would refer to as consciousness in a manner similar to midwestern: "the fabric that holds our universe together") is something more akin to what nu3ro was getting at when he said "does every molecule simply react with the first thing it can react with?" this is, in fact, an intelligent process. even though it is happening on the atomic level and our "conscious" mind does not control a random molecular reaction somewhere in our body, that molecule is 'designed' to have certain properties or is quantized in a certain way to have certain reaction potentialities with other atoms or molecules. this is proven to be intelligent because generally, that reaction serves to propagate life! specifically, our human life. even if you put this design down to cold hard evolution, it is undeniable that there is a striving for greater intelligence and order in the organization of our natural world, generation after generation. it's cool how 'personality traits' such as resilience and perseverance come into play here as well.

so, i would say consciousness=intelligence=god (if that's too much just stick with consciousness=intelligence)

in this sense i totally agree that the laypersons definition of consciousness is critically inaccurate and contributes to an anthropocentric, flawed understanding of the workings of our natural world.

DolanReloadedThis wasnt something taught to me in college—its just one of those questions that comes to you if you are curious enough.

for me, the initial question was, “is there any sort of control over the chemical reactions that occur in the body, or the alternative (which for some people is unthinkable) “is every molecule in your body simply reacting with the first thing it can react with?” .

For me the former was ludicrous because it reeked of some sort of magical spirituality that i could not stand. The latter made perfect sense—and it led to the realization, that we cant consider ourselves alive......

i**This post was edited on Mar 21st 2020 at 4:35:43pm

DolanReloadedHere

mattytruwhoops my bad brah!

BLandzConsciousness is precisely the direct contribution of perpendicular brain thoughts interacting with the in-cohesive tarantula web of being that when transformed and manipulated into a proper fitting glove like structure the indirect spatula of the thought then transcends into the mind of the sole-proprietors reach.

BLandzConsciousness is precisely the direct contribution of perpendicular brain thoughts interacting with the in-cohesive tarantula web of being that when transformed and manipulated into a proper fitting glove like structure the indirect spatula of the thought then transcends into the mind of the sole-proprietors reach.

midwesternmaniacScientists are trying to research their way into enlightenment but forget you have to live your way into it

midwesternmaniacScientists are trying to research their way into enlightenment but forget you have to live your way into it