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August, 2021

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Pass pulled

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elm.
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 10,400
On monday I was skiing at crystal with two friends and it was a descent 6" pow day. We skied most of the day and near the end of the day we took a long traverse and came up to a closed sign. We skied down along the rope line and decided to duck the rope in search of fresh snow. Keep in mind that this closed gate where the sign was can take you to a completely different area than the rope we were ducking. It's easiest to see on a trail map. Also I have skied Mt. Baker the last 5 years and ducking a rope is generally OK as long as there are no signs on the posts saying, "DO NOT ENTER." At crystal there were none of these signs.

We skied down along the ropeline and a ski patroller caught up to us and asked us for our passes and said they had photo evidence of us ducking the rope. After being "detained" for 2 hours, we finally got to go home. The patrollers were all pretty mean about the whole thing. They explained that they were bombing above, at the King, and that we were in a hazardous area. We were maybe 30 feet from the ropeline, which is next to an open run. Also keep in mind this is the same ski patrol that failed to do good avalanche control, which is why chair 6 was destroyed by an avalanche in 2014.

IKON pass pulled for a month.

Nowhere at crystal does it say that you cannot duck a rope. I have photo evidence of this. The day after, I was at Alpental and it explicitly says that you cannot duck a rope. I have photo evidence of this too.

I know I was in the wrong, but I've never received such harsh consequences. Should I try to combat this or just face the month of a pulled pass?
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Feb 26 2020 6:14PM 1 16
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shin-bang
Posts: 4056 - Karma: 6,459
Didn’t read the whole post but automatically voted for you to fight the charges
Feb 26 2020 6:18PM 38 2
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CalumSKI
Posts: 3865 - Karma: 18,885
ahhh a month, that actually sucks dude

what are u gonna do

**This post was edited on Feb 26th 2020 at 6:25:14pm
Feb 26 2020 6:19PM 4 0
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elm.
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 10,400
CalumSKIahhh a month

what are u gonna do


I bought a snoqualmie "half season" pass so I'm good, just might miss out to trips like to Jackson and Big sky
Feb 26 2020 6:23PM 4 0
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CalumSKI
Posts: 3865 - Karma: 18,885
elm.I bought a snoqualmie "half season" pass so I'm good, just might miss out to trips like to Jackson and Big sky


thats dope dude, have fun with that pass tho
Feb 26 2020 6:25PM 1 0
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270on420out
Posts: 7409 - Karma: 49,304
elm.Nowhere at crystal does it say that you cannot duck a rope. I have photo evidence of this.


Gonna have to call bullshit on this one.

https://www.tetongravity.com/story/ski/News-Washington-State-House-Votes-To-Criminalize-Ducking-Ropes-3452625#!

So no you shouldn’t fight them. You could have been slapped with a misdemeanor/1000$ fine/banned from the resort. I’d be pretty stoked on just getting my pass taken for a month.
Feb 26 2020 6:31PM 26 1
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elm.
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 10,400
DIRTYBUBBLEGonna have to call bullshit on this one.

https://www.tetongravity.com/story/ski/News-Washington-State-House-Votes-To-Criminalize-Ducking-Ropes-3452625#!

So no you shouldn’t fight them. You could have been slapped with a misdemeanor/1000$ fine/banned from the resort. I’d be pretty stoked on just getting my pass taken for a month.


If you can find it printed next to a chairlift then yes I totally fucked up, but it wasn't at any of the lifts I've seen. We also asked 3 lifties where it says you can't duck a rope, and they said they didn't know.

There were no DO NOT enter signs at the bamboo sticks between the ropes.
Feb 26 2020 6:37PM 0 16
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CalumSKI
Posts: 3865 - Karma: 18,885
elm.If you can find it printed next to a chairlift then yes I totally fucked up, but it wasn't at any of the lifts I've seen. We also asked 3 lifties where it says you can't duck a rope, and they said they didn't know.

There were no DO NOT enter signs at the bamboo sticks between the ropes.


u did say this though:
We skied most of the day and near the end of the day we took a long traverse and came up to a closed sign.

and by closed sign do you mean a sign that clearly shows that the run is closed?
Feb 26 2020 6:40PM 15 0
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elm.
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 10,400
CalumSKIu did say this though:
We skied most of the day and near the end of the day we took a long traverse and came up to a closed sign.

and by closed sign do you mean a sign that clearly shows that the run is closed?


Yes, but that closed sign gives you access to a different bowl that you cannot access down below, where we dropped in. Because of this, it was unclear whether the area we were going into was closed. From my experience, roped off does not always equal closed.
Feb 26 2020 6:47PM 3 16
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clorox
Posts: 1722 - Karma: 4,727
My home mountain sometimes "soft closes" trails which is when they have a closed sign but no rope. Never have I heard of it being acceptable to duck ropes.
Feb 26 2020 6:52PM 18 0
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Sfont87
Posts: 64 - Karma: 146
It’s the patrollers job to keep everyone safe and ducking a rope puts you and others at risk. Not to mention the fact that it’s illegal. So I don’t think there’s a way to get out of this one. On the other hand if there aren’t any consequences to appealing then it can’t hurt to try.
Feb 26 2020 7:07PM 12 0
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Biffbarf
Posts: 3232 - Karma: 31,848
You don't have a case man. Just take it and learn from it. There's really no reason to duck a rope, don't let freshie fever get to your head.
Feb 26 2020 7:19PM 24 1
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holt_up
Posts: 219 - Karma: 1,391
elm.On monday I was skiing at crystal with two friends and it was a descent 6" pow day. We skied most of the day and near the end of the day we took a long traverse and came up to a closed sign. We skied down along the rope line and decided to duck the rope in search of fresh snow. Keep in mind that this closed gate where the sign was can take you to a completely different area than the rope we were ducking. It's easiest to see on a trail map. Also I have skied Mt. Baker the last 5 years and ducking a rope is generally OK as long as there are no signs on the posts saying, "DO NOT ENTER." At crystal there were none of these signs.

We skied down along the ropeline and a ski patroller caught up to us and asked us for our passes and said they had photo evidence of us ducking the rope. After being "detained" for 2 hours, we finally got to go home. The patrollers were all pretty mean about the whole thing. They explained that they were bombing above, at the King, and that we were in a hazardous area. We were maybe 30 feet from the ropeline, which is next to an open run. Also keep in mind this is the same ski patrol that failed to do good avalanche control, which is why chair 6 was destroyed by an avalanche in 2014.

IKON pass pulled for a month.

Nowhere at crystal does it say that you cannot duck a rope. I have photo evidence of this. The day after, I was at Alpental and it explicitly says that you cannot duck a rope. I have photo evidence of this too.

I know I was in the wrong, but I've never received such harsh consequences. Should I try to combat this or just face the month of a pulled pass?

Sorry dawg but this is all you. It clearly says in a ton of places not to duck the rope. Also how was the chair six avalanche patrols fault?
Feb 26 2020 7:20PM 19 0
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elm.
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 10,400
Holt_upSorry dawg but this is all you. It clearly says in a ton of places not to duck the rope. Also how was the chair six avalanche patrols fault?


I don't know if you fully read it. My point is that it does it does not say anywhere that you can't duck the rope.
Feb 26 2020 7:56PM 1 16
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r00kie
Posts: 2584 - Karma: 21,059
If a rope is up it is implied that the area is closed. Patrol doesn't put ropes up just cause they think they look nice.
Feb 26 2020 8:02PM 28 0
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CalumSKI
Posts: 3865 - Karma: 18,885
elm.Yes, but that closed sign gives you access to a different bowl that you cannot access down below, where we dropped in. Because of this, it was unclear whether the area we were going into was closed. From my experience, roped off does not always equal closed.

but u said that there was literally a closed SIGN
Feb 26 2020 8:04PM 12 0
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TheMoostafian
Posts: 4130 - Karma: 4,052
I know what you mean about Baker, there’s a rope right at the top of chair 6 that is almost always okay to duck, but those ropes have signs that say, “unmarked cliffs” and it’s pretty clear that you can duck them at your own risk. If you ducked a rope with a closed sign, I’d say you’re probably at fault.
Feb 26 2020 8:04PM 14 0
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ShadowXVX
Posts: 195 - Karma: 821
elm.Yes, but that closed sign gives you access to a different bowl that you cannot access down below, where we dropped in. Because of this, it was unclear whether the area we were going into was closed. From my experience, roped off does not always equal closed.


Not that this will help you at all, but at Snowbird which is where I do most of my skiing, there are closed area ropes and cliff area ropes. Ducking closed area ropes is not allowed but ducking cliff area ropes is allowed. In either case, there will be multiple signs either saying 'closed' or 'cliff area' along the length of rope.
Feb 26 2020 8:05PM 5 0
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SoAnG
Posts: 386 - Karma: 389
Be a man and hold yourself accountable. You took the chance ducking the rope knowing there can be consequences as you stated.
Feb 26 2020 8:11PM 7 0
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elm.
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 10,400
ShadowXVXNot that this will help you at all, but at Snowbird which is where I do most of my skiing, there are closed area ropes and cliff area ropes. Ducking closed area ropes is not allowed but ducking cliff area ropes is allowed. In either case, there will be multiple signs either saying 'closed' or 'cliff area' along the length of rope.

This is the entire argument. There were no signs saying closed
Feb 26 2020 8:39PM 1 7
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a_burger
Posts: 4988 - Karma: 16,154
Lmao ducking a rope is universally bad. that’s like arguing it’s ok you stole something because the store didn’t have a no shoplifting sign. If you can’t get to something that has a rope above it without uphill travel or ducking the rope your not supposed to be there.
Feb 26 2020 8:44PM 19 0
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Sfont87
Posts: 64 - Karma: 146
elm.I don't know if you fully read it. My point is that it does it does not say anywhere that you can't duck the rope.

It’s kind of implied tho
Feb 26 2020 9:14PM 13 0
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MXmx
Posts: 345 - Karma: -164
Id just play stupid and try to get it back. Don’t be aggressive or combative.

At least it wasn’t pulled a week or two later as it would be the end of the season.
Feb 26 2020 9:32PM 0 0
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Darc
Posts: 134 - Karma: 653
OP is the reason Mc Donalds had to put "caution hot" on a fresh cup of coffee
Feb 26 2020 10:03PM 31 0
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Dan-Man
Posts: 7281 - Karma: 2,862
Sounds IKONic.
Feb 26 2020 10:12PM 5 0
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6185 - Karma: 2,037
First instinct: don't get caught

Second instinct: that's very irresponsible of you to do

Vote: fight it

If you really want to get your shit back, you should write a formal apology letter (make it an attached pdf) and submit that to the powers that be, probably Crystal and Ikon? See what that gets you. FYI: the second you roll out this kinda argument to management though (about the lack of closed sign), you're fucked, so just apologize and take an avy class or do something to support patrol.

Pretty sure this is gonna be attached to your Ikon account forever though, so that also sucks. Someone in here can confirm that.
Feb 26 2020 10:21PM 9 1
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skeirman
Posts: 1547 - Karma: 4,287
Month suspension is fucking harsh. But just FYI, a law, regulation, or rule does not need to be posted to be in effect. There are no signs anywhere explaining any law or rule in day to day life, but they are all still in force and you are subject to them regardless.
Feb 26 2020 10:33PM 13 0
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skierman_jack
Posts: 1443 - Karma: 11,042
That’s really really harsh. As much as it seems you should fight it you don’t have a single stick to shake here. You broke resort rules and laws. Still sucks tho buddy
Feb 26 2020 10:53PM 5 0
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MXmx
Posts: 345 - Karma: -164
Seems quite harsh, do you have any previous encounters with ski patrol?

In California I see people doing this and other bad things (mainly snowboarders) without ski patrol saying anything.

Act dumb, be nice and say you will never do that again.

If you’ve never had issues with ski patrol, I think the mountain mall cop was having a power trip.
Feb 26 2020 11:10PM 1 0
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CT_CREW
Posts: 422 - Karma: 1,708
Read the fine print on your Ikon Pass, bet it says something about obeying all signs, closures etc. of included resorts. Bet Crystal also has plenty of fine print explaining their rules, closures etc. Rope lines are closures, unless there is an open gate/marked entry point. Ducking ropes/closures is against the law in most western states, I would not fight this one.
Feb 26 2020 11:47PM 8 0
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50Kal
Posts: 2706 - Karma: 4,516
elm.From my experience, roped off does not always equal closed.

A solid continuous rope up means stay out. I don’t see how this can interpreted anyway else.
Feb 27 2020 12:03AM 9 1
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backyardcracker
Posts: 304 - Karma: 857
just don't duck ropes, that's unrealistic of them to pull your pass for a fucking month, but you also can't blame them for being upset with you for going in a roped off area
Feb 27 2020 12:19PM 3 1
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freeskibum82
Posts: 6355 - Karma: 4,980
OP the signs and ropes at baker are different as they outline the "extreme danger zones' and are clearly marked as such like every 100ft. You don't have a case here and im sure the month suspension is probably because of the attitude you gave him, not the fact your ducked a rope. Patrol wants to keep people safe. They get it, people want to ski pow but still need to follow rules. It's not like they want to just go around pulling passes.. you obviously left out details of your story here about the actual interaction with patrol just to get internet points.
Feb 27 2020 1:12PM 11 0
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NvR_Forgetti
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
elm.Yes, but that closed sign gives you access to a different bowl that you cannot access down below, where we dropped in. Because of this, it was unclear whether the area we were going into was closed. From my experience, roped off does not always equal closed.


If there is a closed sign and a rope I think it's safe to assume that it is closed.
Feb 27 2020 1:43PM 8 0
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NvR_Forgetti
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
elm.I don't know if you fully read it. My point is that it does it does not say anywhere that you can't duck the rope.


I can 100% say that if there is a closed sign and a rope at any resort that area is closed and you are not allowed to cross that rope
Feb 27 2020 2:07PM 1 0
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3475 - Karma: 3,585
You sounds like a Texan that’s trying to become an avy statistic. Do what you did in some states and you leave with a cop and a fine.
Feb 27 2020 2:17PM 6 0
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OregonDead
Posts: 6179 - Karma: 15,573
I'd go talk to the manager and apologize and try to get my pass back earlier. Whoever the big chief is up at Crystal. Hopefully they are not to big to have someone that can make independent decisions. I'd say something like how you now are more educated about the situation and you promise that it will never happen again. I have heard of this working at other mountains.

It makes sense that a mountain that bombs for avy control will get a lot more excited about this sort of thing because of all the liability etc even if it doesn't seem rational at all. Meadows probably would have pulled your pass for the rest of the season
Feb 27 2020 2:57PM 4 0
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Jpurd
Posts: 3195 - Karma: 3,516
You ducked a rope at a ski resort. Tough shit. Usually, a rope is up for a reason. I don't think most ski patrols keep trails closed just because they want to ruin someone's day.

Also, who cares if its 30 feet from an open trail. A lot can change in 30 feet.
Feb 27 2020 5:19PM 10 0
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theabortionator
Posts: 47629 - Karma: 115,181
You got caught fucking a rope on a pow day, ski patrol was bombing, and you're bad that they weren't as friendly as they couod have been and taking a shot at them about not being good enough at avy control?

I get your bummed on losing the pass but fuxk dude. Ducking ropes can get your oass pulled at pretty much every mountain in the US. That isn't some weird thing that only a few places do. Especially out west on a pow day. I've ducked ropes before shit happens, but you know what you're getting into when you're crossing that line.

Accept that you fucked up, be stoked it's a month and not the season, and make better choices next time. It sucks but it sounds like you wouldn't have learned anything from them just talking to tou about the dangers and why closed runs are closed. Honestly doesn't sound like you care a ton now even.

Patrollers have a lot of shit to deal with. Also being first responders to finding and recovering/cleaning up bodies from people ducking closed terrain. Maybe it wasn't that deep, wasn't that steep, maybe it could have been open. At the end if the day it's their call and you gotta roll woth that. If they open it and you die thats in them. If they close it and you die they legally did theyir job but they still have to deal with that.

Be smart man.
Feb 27 2020 7:18PM 12 0
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theabortionator
Posts: 47629 - Karma: 115,181
freeskibum82OP the signs and ropes at baker are different as they outline the "extreme danger zones' and are clearly marked as such like every 100ft. You don't have a case here and im sure the month suspension is probably because of the attitude you gave him, not the fact your ducked a rope. Patrol wants to keep people safe. They get it, people want to ski pow but still need to follow rules. It's not like they want to just go around pulling passes.. you obviously left out details of your story here about the actual interaction with patrol just to get internet points.


Yeah. I would guess this. Interactions can go either way. Sometimes somebody is cool and doesn't care, sometimes they do. It's still the rule. A lot of times people don't get their pass pulled that could because they appologize are cool. I don't know what happened, but Ive personaly watched plenty of people be total assholes in these situations and really can't blame patrol for throwing the book at them.
Feb 27 2020 7:25PM 1 0
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 10543 - Karma: 78,117
"They explained that they were bombing above, at the King, and that we were in a hazardous area. "

The mental gymnastics required to still think you were in the right and creating a thread thinking everyone would be on your side.


a few months ago a group were skiing up a ridge that patrollers were bombing above them for avy at whistler, everyones pass pulled for the entire season. You're lucky that it was only one month
Feb 27 2020 7:43PM 11 0
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holt_up
Posts: 219 - Karma: 1,391
TRVP_ANGEL"They explained that they were bombing above, at the King, and that we were in a hazardous area. "

The mental gymnastics required to still think you were in the right and creating a thread thinking everyone would be on your side.


a few months ago a group were skiing up a ridge that patrollers were bombing above them for avy at whistler, everyones pass pulled for the entire season. You're lucky that it was only one month


Facts. Patrol goes every to make sure idiots don’t die everyday in avalanches and ducking ropes makes their lives even harder

**This post was edited on Feb 27th 2020 at 8:36:13pm
Feb 27 2020 8:34PM 1 0
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 3944 - Karma: 244
Sorry you got the book thrown at you. They aren’t giving you your shit back. It’s a rope don’t be a moron you know you can’t duck it.


Next time if you break rules don’t be a little bitch and ski away from the patroller to your car and gtfo. Being with pals you can probably just dip to the lodge and let them get caught.
Feb 27 2020 9:20PM 2 0
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teamdummy
Posts: 1139 - Karma: 1,856
Saw this beautiful girl walking in the woods. She wasn’t wearing a “raping me is illegal” sign. So... you know.....I went ahead and........


sorry, extreme example. But OP’s argument is asinine.
Feb 28 2020 4:35AM 2 4
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HypeBeast
Posts: 6064 - Karma: 26,157
DarcOP is the reason Mc Donalds had to put "caution hot" on a fresh cup of coffee

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 This got me good.

Op first of all ur stoopid. If it's a continuous rope attached to a closed sign, it's closed. Unless you're mentally retarded it's pretty easy to understand this concept.

Second, you deserve to get your pass pulled. For a month? Probably places like to set examples with punitive charges like this to deter similar behavior. Imagine if you only got your pass pulled for a few days or a week for ducking ropes for chest deep pow- people would do this shit all the time and skiing fatality rate would certainly go up.

Judging by your opinion of ski patrol I'm speculating that you were a little cunt and they doubled their punishment. Your only option for "fighting" which probably won't work anyway is to write a letter and deliver it in person to a resort manager or better yet, ski patrol. Be sincere in your apology. If you said anything negative, include that too. Explain that you read up on the subject of ducking ropes and spoke with a lot of people and are now aware of how serious the gravity of the situation. You could have died. Thank them for looking out for your safety. Thank them for getting up 4 hours before you even wake to do safety management on the mountain, maybe even before sunrise. Feel free to describe yourself as irresponsible and endangering not only yourself, but other skiers below and also ski patrol. Call it a poor momentary lapse in judgment.
Feb 28 2020 8:26AM 5 0
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GrandThings
Posts: 2008 - Karma: 14,786
DarcOP is the reason Mc Donalds had to put "caution hot" on a fresh cup of coffee


I totally agree that our society (Americans anyway) have a sue-happy culture.

But everyone should look up the case of the McDonalds coffee. I agree that it sounds ridiculous but that lady got absolutely FUCKED UP by that coffee (i.e 3rd degree burns on her legs, and fused her vagina together.....yeah)

She ended up not even getting that much money, McD's still refused to pay her excess medical bills. She died a few years later after being permanently disabled and the settlement proceedings took too much out of her. Fucking crazy story.
Feb 28 2020 8:59AM 3 0
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pinkcamo1000
Posts: 3087 - Karma: 20,921
teamdummySaw this beautiful girl walking in the woods. She wasn’t wearing a “raping me is illegal” sign. So... you know.....I went ahead and........


sorry, extreme example. But OP’s argument is asinine.


Comments like this are the reason why lady gabber exists
Feb 28 2020 9:27AM 6 0
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HypeBeast
Posts: 6064 - Karma: 26,157
GrandThingsI totally agree that our society (Americans anyway) have a sue-happy culture.

But everyone should look up the case of the McDonalds coffee. I agree that it sounds ridiculous but that lady got absolutely FUCKED UP by that coffee (i.e 3rd degree burns on her legs, and fused her vagina together.....yeah)

She ended up not even getting that much money, McD's still refused to pay her excess medical bills. She died a few years later after being permanently disabled and the settlement proceedings took too much out of her. Fucking crazy story.

Interesting read. Thanks for the rec. I checked out the whole wiki page on it. It said she died in 2004 at the age 91 though. Also interesting is that other establishments per wiki serve as hot or hotter and also Mcdonalds still serves at same temperature but just with a bigger warning and improved packaging.

I will say though that 190F is not crazy high considering water boils first before brewing so it's much hotter if you brew at home. Also think about tea that's served just after boiling so probably about 200-210F.

Regardless water can fuck people up and does. I'm surprised ramen noodles haven't been sued yet. That shit is hot and it sticks. Causes so many burns every year
Feb 28 2020 12:23PM 1 0
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backwoodbandit
Posts: 11 - Karma: 69
Patroller here. 9/10 if an area with snow has a closed rope theres either avy or cat work going on. Most resorts follow the same policy when it comes to closed trails if you have to duck a rope to get in you 100% can't ski it and will get your pass pulled. If theres no rope to duck under you can ski the area, even with a closed sign, but you're on your own if you get stuck. Every trail has to be skied each morning and most times we won't close them unless theres 0 way down. Hate to be a dick but we have enough going on during the day that we don't have time to be rescuing people who can't follow the rules. Just save the hassle and possible thicc fine and wait till the area opens.
Feb 29 2020 11:16AM 4 0
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 2559 - Karma: 18,774
Just two days ago a groomer cat got caught in a slide here and fortunately the driver was okay, but if it was some skier who had ducked the rope the same might not be said. If for any reason, at least for your own safety respect the rules
Feb 29 2020 11:40AM 1 0
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NateDude
Posts: 119 - Karma: 669
A dude literally just died on hood because he ducked a rope that also had no signs and rode into an open creek. They found the body 3 days later.

The ropes aren't there to protect ski patrol's secret pow stash...
Feb 29 2020 7:43PM 3 0
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