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Touring Bindings
So I'm planning on getting into the backcountry a bit this season and I have everything necessary besides a proper binding setup. I'd like something to handle creamy dad turns but also cliffs and booters, my two options I'm looking into are Salomon shifts cause I hear they can handle everything very well, but would like more confirmation on that. Other option is daymakers because I can just hook them up to my favorite alpine binding which is good for confidence and versatility, only downside is having the extra weight in my backpack and the risk of parts breaking. Anyone have suggestions?
what boots do you have? if you have tech inserts go for the shift, i've been skiing it lately and it is a really good feeling binding, feels like an sth to me at least after you get the settings done correctly. that being said i wouldn't put them on skis if i skied park regurarly, in that case i would go for the cast setup. the shift works super well on a pair of all-mountain skis that i still want to take out touring. i haven't tried the daymakers but i've heard good things about it for sure. the biggest plus for the daymakers is that you can still use your normal alpine boots if you don't have tech boots without hauling a heavy frame binding up.
kalle.what boots do you have? if you have tech inserts go for the shift, i've been skiing it lately and it is a really good feeling binding, feels like an sth to me at least after you get the settings done correctly. that being said i wouldn't put them on skis if i skied park regurarly, in that case i would go for the cast setup. the shift works super well on a pair of all-mountain skis that i still want to take out touring. i haven't tried the daymakers but i've heard good things about it for sure. the biggest plus for the daymakers is that you can still use your normal alpine boots if you don't have tech boots without hauling a heavy frame binding up.
I have roxa r3 boots for touring which can be used on normal bindings but also have inserts for tech bindings like dynafits. I'd plan on using either with my arv 106s most likely so I can ski deep pow and hit jumps and such. Would you suggest the shifts if I want to hit relatively big jumps or cliffs? My friend told me he talked to some guys on salomons team and they said they can huck their meat on them.
Our Freetour setup is really what you're looking for. Might be a bit more of an initial investment if you don't currently own Look Pivot 18s but they will last you for years and will be your most versatile one binding option, hands down. The Salomon/Atomic guys are still usually skiing the STH2 binding inbounds as it is more durable and much less finicky than the Shift. In terms of touring, if your touring to a jump spot, you could get by with the daymakers but you won't really want to tour with them on any real hike, especially since you already have tech inserts in your boots. Once you've toured with a tech toe you'll never go back. We created the Freetour because we're skiers and we were in the same dilemma as you, there wasn't anything that did everything really well. cheers
CastOur Freetour setup is really what you're looking for. Might be a bit more of an initial investment if you don't currently own Look Pivot 18s but they will last you for years and will be your most versatile one binding option, hands down. The Salomon/Atomic guys are still usually skiing the STH2 binding inbounds as it is more durable and much less finicky than the Shift. In terms of touring, if your touring to a jump spot, you could get by with the daymakers but you won't really want to tour with them on any real hike, especially since you already have tech inserts in your boots. Once you've toured with a tech toe you'll never go back. We created the Freetour because we're skiers and we were in the same dilemma as you, there wasn't anything that did everything really well. cheers
Appreciate hearing from a company in this thread, however with my current budget I'm not sure if you guys would be my best option at the moment if I'd have go get pivot 18s, I do agree daymakers are only so good and are ideal for short tours and hitting jumps. This is why I'm leaning towards the shift because it only requires itself and seems to be able to handle the two things I wanna do on yours, ski deep pow and hit jumps.
Titus69Appreciate hearing from a company in this thread, however with my current budget I'm not sure if you guys would be my best option at the moment if I'd have go get pivot 18s, I do agree daymakers are only so good and are ideal for short tours and hitting jumps. This is why I'm leaning towards the shift because it only requires itself and seems to be able to handle the two things I wanna do on yours, ski deep pow and hit jumps.
Totally understand. We might compete with the ~$100 cost difference if we outsourced to Asia but it isn't really what we're about. Look forward to getting you dialed when you outgrow/wear out those plastic bindings. You'll start to realize, while the end goal of touring is to find the deepest pow, it isn't always there. Hit me up if you change you mind and want a little discount on our setup. silas@casttouring.com
Titus69I have roxa r3 boots for touring which can be used on normal bindings but also have inserts for tech bindings like dynafits. I'd plan on using either with my arv 106s most likely so I can ski deep pow and hit jumps and such. Would you suggest the shifts if I want to hit relatively big jumps or cliffs? My friend told me he talked to some guys on salomons team and they said they can huck their meat on them.
shift or cast, i've only mounted a set of cast touring and they are literally like the p18 but just with an upgrade. i've skied the shift pretty aggressively and taken it on a few bigger slams as well. it will stand up to abuse but not like a full metal binding would though. setting it up correctly is crucial.
I used the Shift all season and I never had an issue with it. It's a great binding.
kalle.shift or cast, i've only mounted a set of cast touring and they are literally like the p18 but just with an upgrade. i've skied the shift pretty aggressively and taken it on a few bigger slams as well. it will stand up to abuse but not like a full metal binding would though. setting it up correctly is crucial.
How do you properly set them up to handle everything well?
BrawnTrendsI used the Shift all season and I never had an issue with it. It's a great binding.
Sounds like it might be the play
Titus69How do you properly set them up to handle everything well?
Sounds like it might be the play
Pay close attention to adjusting forward pressure and AFD height, check after a couple days.
mystery3Pay close attention to adjusting forward pressure and AFD height, check after a couple days.
Ok thank you, lucky to be working in a shop so can consistantly have em checked on.
Titus69Ok thank you, lucky to be working in a shop so can consistantly have em checked on.
There's a way to make sure the AFD doesn't move down once it's set (which the problem many people have had), Lee Lau has talked about it and it should be somewhere in the Shift topic or his review on this forum.
Titus69How do you properly set them up to handle everything well?
Sounds like it might be the play
i don't have them setup how they instruct by salomon/atomic. i have it tighter both from the afd and the forward pressure. i wouldn't adjust them like that to a customer.
the key to having the afd stay at its place is to stop adjusting it while moving it upwards, at least that's how i've not had problem with it! PM me if you have any questions.
tecton 12 > shift
all day.
all day.
in the past i have always used Salomon guardian bindings, but i dont backcountry tour anymore
11010110in the past i have always used Salomon guardian bindings, but i dont backcountry tour anymore
How did the hold up? My friend has I think what look like STHs with some mechanism in the back for touring on them. I'm just trying to get a touring binding that's close to a normal binding so it can handle what I wanna do in the backcountry.
Titus69How did the hold up? My friend has I think what look like STHs with some mechanism in the back for touring on them. I'm just trying to get a touring binding that's close to a normal binding so it can handle what I wanna do in the backcountry.
any tour binding can become a downhill alpine binding. like you can basically use touring bindings as your everyday binding(i did that with my Guardians) some, like Fritschi tecton, Dynafit speed turn and Marker alpinist are more of a nuisance to constantly being used as a downhill oriented piece of equipment. The Guardians are a run-of-the-mill binding and really versatile and arent as 'speciailized' as some others but i had zero issues, set and forget type of thing
11010110any tour binding can become a downhill alpine binding. like you can basically use touring bindings as your everyday binding(i did that with my Guardians) some, like Fritschi tecton, Dynafit speed turn and Marker alpinist are more of a nuisance to constantly being used as a downhill oriented piece of equipment. The Guardians are a run-of-the-mill binding and really versatile and arent as 'speciailized' as some others but i had zero issues, set and forget type of thing
Yeah, I'm just looking for touring bindings that are able to withstand a decent size jump and drops, traditional pin bindings like dynafits seem like they'll blow me up if I want to do stuff like that. Seems like a shift is my best option otherwise Daymakers would be good but not for long tours.
Titus69Yeah, I'm just looking for touring bindings that are able to withstand a decent size jump and drops, traditional pin bindings like dynafits seem like they'll blow me up if I want to do stuff like that. Seems like a shift is my best option otherwise Daymakers would be good but not for long tours.
Daymakers are a great affordable approach to backcountry touring. IMO i'd rather have a dedicated binding\boot system, but if ur strapped for cash then get 'em!
11010110Daymakers are a great affordable approach to backcountry touring. IMO i'd rather have a dedicated binding\boot system, but if ur strapped for cash then get 'em!
I mean I have an available discount for most bindings, daymakers are just a good option to keep my preferred alpine binding on my feet, but if theres a binding like what the shift sounds like that'll get me through jumps and such than that's better, cause the weight of the daymakers in my bag would kind of be a pain and a potential hazard during a crash.
.nastytecton 12 > shift
all day.
On the up, absolutely. On the down, no.
In the end it depends of each person' priorities.
.nastytecton 12 > shift
all day.
Except OP is planning on hitting jumps. Shift/CAST/Frames are really the only options if you're looking to hit booters.
All these people talking about how good the shifts performs definitely didn’t ski it long enough or in variable snow.
The single climbing riser is wack, why even design a binding like that when every other binding has 2. They tour fine but that not the hard part for a binding to do. Had multiple friends as well as myself unable to stay in the binding despite being tested and adjusted multiple times by the shop. I actually didn’t have an issue ejecting out of the toe as one might expect, but had a lot of punch front style releases out of the heals, leaving skis half way down pillow lines in a huge pain the ass to get them back.
Overall I’d treat the shift as a safer kingpin, I actually had less ejecting issues out of my kingpins.
For reference both of these airs were done on the east coast on kingpins:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BgSOiOXhMdd/?igshid=k2qjescwthmp
The single climbing riser is wack, why even design a binding like that when every other binding has 2. They tour fine but that not the hard part for a binding to do. Had multiple friends as well as myself unable to stay in the binding despite being tested and adjusted multiple times by the shop. I actually didn’t have an issue ejecting out of the toe as one might expect, but had a lot of punch front style releases out of the heals, leaving skis half way down pillow lines in a huge pain the ass to get them back.
Overall I’d treat the shift as a safer kingpin, I actually had less ejecting issues out of my kingpins.
For reference both of these airs were done on the east coast on kingpins:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BgSOiOXhMdd/?igshid=k2qjescwthmp
TheWeazAll these people talking about how good the shifts performs definitely didn’t ski it long enough or in variable snow.
The single climbing riser is wack, why even design a binding like that when every other binding has 2. They tour fine but that not the hard part for a binding to do. Had multiple friends as well as myself unable to stay in the binding despite being tested and adjusted multiple times by the shop. I actually didn’t have an issue ejecting out of the toe as one might expect, but had a lot of punch front style releases out of the heals, leaving skis half way down pillow lines in a huge pain the ass to get them back.
Overall I’d treat the shift as a safer kingpin, I actually had less ejecting issues out of my kingpins.
For reference both of these airs were done on the east coast on kingpins:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BgSOiOXhMdd/?igshid=k2qjescwthmp
Ok thanks for the input on that, would you suggest the kingpin then for what I want to do over the shift?
Titus69Ok thanks for the input on that, would you suggest the kingpin then for what I want to do over the shift?
No not really, although sammy c was sending in the backcountry on kingpins.
i guess it kinda depends how hard you’ll actually be skiing on these skis, if your skiing pow all the time then shifts may work fine. I would say cast has the best compromise between downhill skiing and uphill touring, I personally would probably choose tectons next after that, If I were hitting more jumps or going on tours that are mostly going to be under 3-4000 feet of vert I’d do daymakers or a frame binding, longer tours and less jumps I’d think about tech bindings with an alpine heel like the kingpin or the tecton.
Personally I own a cast setup on a heavier ski that I use most days at the resort, and then also when I’m touring to a jump or a gnarlier line where I want my stiffer skis. And then I have an older dynafit tech binding on a light pair of skis for when I know I’m going to be doing a lot of skinning and less sending. Before I got my light set up though I did do a 6000 foot climb around here with the cast set up, sure it was kind of heavy but it got me up and then safely down and I wasn’t scared about my skis staying on my feet on the way down.
You really just gotta think about what you will actually be using this touring set up for and choose from there.
TheWeazNo not really, although sammy c was sending in the backcountry on kingpins.
i guess it kinda depends how hard you’ll actually be skiing on these skis, if your skiing pow all the time then shifts may work fine. I would say cast has the best compromise between downhill skiing and uphill touring, I personally would probably choose tectons next after that, If I were hitting more jumps or going on tours that are mostly going to be under 3-4000 feet of vert I’d do daymakers or a frame binding, longer tours and less jumps I’d think about tech bindings with an alpine heel like the kingpin or the tecton.
Personally I own a cast setup on a heavier ski that I use most days at the resort, and then also when I’m touring to a jump or a gnarlier line where I want my stiffer skis. And then I have an older dynafit tech binding on a light pair of skis for when I know I’m going to be doing a lot of skinning and less sending. Before I got my light set up though I did do a 6000 foot climb around here with the cast set up, sure it was kind of heavy but it got me up and then safely down and I wasn’t scared about my skis staying on my feet on the way down.
You really just gotta think about what you will actually be using this touring set up for and choose from there.
Since I'll be skiing Alta a lot I'll be skiing through gates kinda close to inbounds, but will have skis for that and shorter boot pack if I dont have whatever I'll tour with in the car. I wanna tour some decent sized stuff this year, my goal is to ski mt superior if conditions and timing permits, seen homies do the skin up most of it on daymakers before hiking. Otherwise unless I were to be filming or with a big crew I'll likely ski some mellow lines with minor cliffs and such, first year I'll have skins and shit to tour on so probably wont do super gnarly or way out there stuff, although I wanna start skiing some big mtn lines.
TheWeazNo not really, although sammy c was sending in the backcountry on kingpins.
Doesn't Carlson ski with the toes locked though?
Can confirm
BrawnTrendsDoesn't Carlson ski with the toes locked though?
I ride kingpins on my JJ zeros but my next Touring binding purchase is most likely gonna be the CAST system. Kingpins are mostly fine for in resort skiing, but I definitely had falls that I would have released from my pivots with dins on 12. I'm a big fan of so it all ski gear; I have standard soles on my Dalbello Lupo AX's and only switch out liners for touring (Intuition ID Pro's for the resort). I like the reliability of pivot 18's on my park skis and certainly don't mind carrying a little extra weight considering pins make walking so much better than frame bindings or booting it.
finderI ride kingpins on my JJ zeros but my next Touring binding purchase is most likely gonna be the CAST system. Kingpins are mostly fine for in resort skiing, but I definitely had falls that I would have released from my pivots with dins on 12. I'm a big fan of so it all ski gear; I have standard soles on my Dalbello Lupo AX's and only switch out liners for touring (Intuition ID Pro's for the resort). I like the reliability of pivot 18's on my park skis and certainly don't mind carrying a little extra weight considering pins make walking so much better than frame bindings or booting it.
Can you maybe show me a pic and describe the casts? Does the pivot toe piece go in with the pin toe of the casts?
Titus69Can you maybe show me a pic and describe the casts? Does the pivot toe piece go in with the pin toe of the casts?
https://casttouring.com/
You basically get plates to go under your heel and toe piece. The one under the heel piece has risers for different walk angles, and the one for the toe piece lets you slide the pivot toe off and replace it with a Dynafit style toe with pins. It's another step for transitioning from climb to ski, but it's up to you if it's worth it to tour with pivots.
finderhttps://casttouring.com/
You basically get plates to go under your heel and toe piece. The one under the heel piece has risers for different walk angles, and the one for the toe piece lets you slide the pivot toe off and replace it with a Dynafit style toe with pins. It's another step for transitioning from climb to ski, but it's up to you if it's worth it to tour with pivots.
Yeah that would be my only issue is having to get a pair of pivot 18s, otherwise sounds like a good idea
I got some daymakers last year and I fucking love them. For somebody that just started touring I think they are perfect to dip your feet in the water. Sure maybe you are not gonna pull some 2 day BC mission on them but what's stopping you from trying. Huge shout-out and ahmets brother and Chris.
JoeF2661I got some daymakers last year and I fucking love them. For somebody that just started touring I think they are perfect to dip your feet in the water. Sure maybe you are not gonna pull some 2 day BC mission on them but what's stopping you from trying. Huge shout-out and ahmets brother and Chris.
The big thing stopping me from wanting them is just added weight especially with the float bag I have being small, otherwise I'm all for them.
Titus69The big thing stopping me from wanting them is just added weight especially with the float bag I have being small, otherwise I'm all for them.
For sure but honestly dude you are young. Do an extra set of lunges on leg day. One of these days I'll buy a legit touring setup but daymakers work great and it's not like your strapping bricks to your boots.
if you're considering frame bindings like the guardian, just thought i should mention that when i went through that process i ended up getting the tyrolia adrenalins rather than the guardian. i heard about fewer issues on them than guardians and they have a (relatively) low stack height. basically like a pair of attacks on a frame. i really liked mine for short tours and for the fact that i didn't have to make a huge plunge into gear and spend a ton on new boots etc etc
just a thought!
just a thought!
I think it also depends who you're touring with. If all your friends are on lightweight tech bindings, following them uphill with frame bindings is going to suck for you.
I know because I've been there. And it sucked.
I know because I've been there. And it sucked.
BrawnTrendsI think it also depends who you're touring with. If all your friends are on lightweight tech bindings, following them uphill with frame bindings is going to suck for you.
I know because I've been there. And it sucked.
yeah i went on a couple tours with some dynafit friends when i was on frame bindings. it definitely sucked on the way up, then i dusted them on the way down. that only works if you're with a patient crew though haha
SofaKingSickyeah i went on a couple tours with some dynafit friends when i was on frame bindings. it definitely sucked on the way up, then i dusted them on the way down. that only works if you're with a patient crew though haha
Yeah I dont have many friends to tour with, one usually uses his dynafits and then a few other kids I know are usually on daymakers.
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