Information on Vail or Alterra

Can you talk briefly about local mountains becoming financially stagnant and needing mega passes? How does that just happen?

Or you can do your work by yourself?

/r/shittygroupmembers

TubeBroCan you talk briefly about local mountains becoming financially stagnant and needing mega passes? How does that just happen?

Basically you can trace the movement and the idea of mega passes back to 1998 when a few resorts in colorado dropped their season's pass prices to about 25% of previous value with the caveat that you have to buy with your friends and it went from there.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1998/10/02/looking-for-a-lift-colorado-ski-resorts-wage-a-discount-war/3539ac1b-b09c-431d-8c31-3251b514e862/?utm_term=.0a47656008aa

According to Chris Diamond, this was just a last ditch effort to make payroll for winter park:
https://snowboarding.transworld.net/photos/when-did-ski-resort-lift-tickets-become-so-expensive/

Vail was smart and saw the writing on the wall earlier and started looking at buying and buying, but they needed money first. Before 1998, a seasons pass was about 750 bucks.

Perhaps resorts don't need mega passes, but they certainly benefit from their existence. It could easily have been due to poor management winter park nearly bit the dust, but I think there was a lot of scare around climate change and there certainly still is now. Vail gets revenue for these resorts up front before the season starts with the Epic Pass. Mega Resorts like Vail have made it so the resort's existence isn't just reliant on snow anymore.

Theoretically, if you had enough capital, you could turn your mountain into a Vail-like area with the resort owning all the entertainment, lodging, and everything else associated with skiing too, thereby making it more of a destination, but when you have to compete against the real Vail, you lose because you don't have the financial backing or multi resort span. It's a kind of chicken and egg situation. If all resorts had done this, maybe it would have worked, but it didn't happen that way, and it's not going to happen now unless Vail eventually gets broken up by the Monopoly rules in the U.S. The one thing we do get out of it all is cheap season's passes for you and me to enjoy while we eat our 3 dollar walmart sandwiches for lunch.

TRVP_ANGELOr you can do your work by yourself?

/r/shittygroupmembers

I am the only group member, I was curious as many of you have interesting info about the industry I don't have access to either by word of mouth or you've seen something I haven't.

I think it's a combination of the lesser of two evils and what each one brings to the table. They both have deep pockets so expect facilities, lifts, and amenities to improve (although that's sort of a negative too since costs go up). They both have their respective Ikon or Epic passes and I personally favor the Ikon pass because Alterra seems to be the less douchey of a company. I've been to Stowe once and Vail's convergence into that mountain has told me all I need to know to make a decision about Vail.

Wanted to post a thread about this earlier in winter but forgot. Rumor last time I checked is Jay Peak is likely to get bought by one of these two behemoths this Spring/Summer and since it's inevitable, I'd be down for Alterra to take them over. Then I'd for sure buy the Ikon pass. Could also ski at Snowshoe with it and use it for trips out west. Honestly it would save me money versus buying day passes. If vail buys them, then you can expect their ticket prices to double and a lot of folks be very sad.

As much as I so much enjoy going places that are individual entities with the old school laid back vibe, it's foolish to think that sort of stuff will last forever at all places. Corporations will prevail as always. On the bright side though with the Epic and Ikon pass, if you ski a lot they basically make the price of tickets pretty freaking decent.

BigPurpleSkiSuitBasically you can trace the movement and the idea of mega passes back to 1998 when a few resorts in colorado dropped their season's pass prices to about 25% of previous value with the caveat that you have to buy with your friends and it went from there.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1998/10/02/looking-for-a-lift-colorado-ski-resorts-wage-a-discount-war/3539ac1b-b09c-431d-8c31-3251b514e862/?utm_term=.0a47656008aa

According to Chris Diamond, this was just a last ditch effort to make payroll for winter park:
https://snowboarding.transworld.net/photos/when-did-ski-resort-lift-tickets-become-so-expensive/

Vail was smart and saw the writing on the wall earlier and started looking at buying and buying, but they needed money first. Before 1998, a seasons pass was about 750 bucks.

Perhaps resorts don't need mega passes, but they certainly benefit from their existence. It could easily have been due to poor management winter park nearly bit the dust, but I think there was a lot of scare around climate change and there certainly still is now. Vail gets revenue for these resorts up front before the season starts with the Epic Pass. Mega Resorts like Vail have made it so the resort's existence isn't just reliant on snow anymore.

Theoretically, if you had enough capital, you could turn your mountain into a Vail-like area with the resort owning all the entertainment, lodging, and everything else associated with skiing too, thereby making it more of a destination, but when you have to compete against the real Vail, you lose because you don't have the financial backing or multi resort span. It's a kind of chicken and egg situation. If all resorts had done this, maybe it would have worked, but it didn't happen that way, and it's not going to happen now unless Vail eventually gets broken up by the Monopoly rules in the U.S. The one thing we do get out of it all is cheap season's passes for you and me to enjoy while we eat our 3 dollar walmart sandwiches for lunch.

Great insight. Here's my question though. Before Vail went on a buying spree, or at that time, was there a decrease in skier visits across the board in the industry in the US? Or did Vail's shift literally lead to resorts coming up short/stagnant and needing to jump on board?

One question though. Do you despise the Ikon pass for more than just cottonwood traffic and lift congestion?

I really don't understand how every company (or better yet shareholders) expects to have yoy positive profits every time. Wouldn't it eventually plateau at least temporarily until more acquisitions occur?

And by stagnant revenues, elaborate.

From article 1:

The experiment is a somewhat desperate bid to counter two trends afflicting the ski industry here and nationally. For close to a decade, this industry has had virtually no growth. Without the surge in popularity of snowboarding, there likely would have been a significant decline.

runforlove2018One question though. Do you despise the Ikon pass for more than just cottonwood traffic and lift congestion?

I really don't understand how every company (or better yet shareholders) expects to have yoy positive profits every time. Wouldn't it eventually plateau at least temporarily until more acquisitions occur?

And by stagnant revenues, elaborate.

Agreed on alterra being less douchey which makes me happy since they'd probably be more likely to buy snowbird alta. Someone said in another thread no resort is going to be cater to someone who spends 450 on a seasons pass and that's it.

runforlove2018I think it's a combination of the lesser of two evils and what each one brings to the table. They both have deep pockets so expect facilities, lifts, and amenities to improve (although that's sort of a negative too since costs go up). They both have their respective Ikon or Epic passes and I personally favor the Ikon pass because Alterra seems to be the less douchey of a company. I've been to Stowe once and Vail's convergence into that mountain has told me all I need to know to make a decision about Vail.

Wanted to post a thread about this earlier in winter but forgot. Rumor last time I checked is Jay Peak is likely to get bought by one of these two behemoths this Spring/Summer and since it's inevitable, I'd be down for Alterra to take them over. Then I'd for sure buy the Ikon pass. Could also ski at Snowshoe with it and use it for trips out west. Honestly it would save me money versus buying day passes. If vail buys them, then you can expect their ticket prices to double and a lot of folks be very sad.

As much as I so much enjoy going places that are individual entities with the old school laid back vibe, it's foolish to think that sort of stuff will last forever at all places. Corporations will prevail as always. On the bright side though with the Epic and Ikon pass, if you ski a lot they basically make the price of tickets pretty freaking decent.