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Alpine boots with tech compatibility

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907ski
Posts: 5 - Karma: 14
Looking for a high quality downhill boot that has tech inserts...

With the new atomic/salomon shifts I can now have tech bindings on my downhill set up without compromising safety, power, etc, yet I have not found a boot that equals that versatility. I was thinking buying some Dalbello Panterra 120's from last year and having the CAST guys add tech inserts, or buying Dalbello Lupo 120's. For those of us that ski around 75% resort and 25% backcountry, I would rather deal with the downsides of a true alpine boot in the backcountry than the downsides of a more touring oriented boot bombing laps at the resort.

Any advice here, or others facing similar decisions? Obviously I know the Lupo is a better boot for touring, but does that mean it isn't as great as a boot as the Panterra on the resort? Has anyone skied the Lupo downhill at the resort and wished they'd had an actual alpine boot instead?

**This thread was edited on Nov 4th 2018 at 6:40:02pm
Nov 4 2018 6:17PM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1477 - Karma: 9,236
Salomon QST Pro 130
Fischer Ranger 130
Head Kore 1
Lange XT Free
Tecnica Cochise 130

The 50/50 market is so unbelievably saturated with quality shit right now. Just find what fits best, you're spoiled for options.
Nov 4 2018 6:25PM
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Denseclouds
Posts: 495 - Karma: 2,843
I'm in the same predicament. Thinking about going with the Lange XT tour but i've heard and personally seen how they have terrible durability in the plastic.
Nov 4 2018 9:08PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8620 - Karma: 32,327
If it fits.....Hawx XTD. Imo the best tour boot out there if you want a decent ski down
Nov 4 2018 9:21PM
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CT_CREW
Posts: 655 - Karma: 3,431
haven't tried em but the new Full tilts with tech inserts might be dope, if you are into full tilts.
Nov 4 2018 9:43PM
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Mullet_man
Posts: 113 - Karma: 242
I’m selling a pair of K2 pinnacle 110 if you are interested.
Nov 4 2018 10:25PM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
Profahoben_212If it fits.....Hawx XTD. Imo the best tour boot out there if you want a decent ski down


This.

But get boot fit, then come to us with the fitter's recommendations, will make it much easier. Also, if the regular inbounds Hawx fits your foot, you can throw CAST toes in it and use it with SHIFT. I've been doing that for sidecountry stuff and it's SO great!
Nov 5 2018 10:00AM
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907ski
Posts: 5 - Karma: 14
CT_CREWhaven't tried em but the new Full tilts with tech inserts might be dope, if you are into full tilts.


Wow yeah I just looked up the Full Tilt Ascendants and that just might be what I go with. They're listed across the board at 799$ but I just found a sweet deal on FreezeProShop.com for only $450! Anyway either that or the Lupo seems to be my choices but I just can't seem to find many reviews on the latter.
Nov 5 2018 1:17PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
The referenced post has been removed.


A boot seller is not a boot fitter.

Know the difference.
Nov 6 2018 6:56AM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1477 - Karma: 9,236
onenerdykidA boot seller is not a boot fitter.

Know the difference.

Boom roasted
Nov 6 2018 9:39AM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1477 - Karma: 9,236
The referenced post has been removed.


I think he's implying that you don't know what a real bootfitter is.
Nov 6 2018 10:16AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
The referenced post has been removed.


Boot seller- a person in a shop who just sells boots without knowing how to really solve fit issues. These people are very common, and often well intentioned, but often lack the knowledge & tools to do any real modification to your boots.

Boot fitter - a person in a shop who has special training on foot biomechanics, shell-cuff-liner modification, and making footbeds. They have the knowledge and the tools required to properly solve fit issues.

Boot fitters by no means possess secret knowledge, but they do have knowledge, they have received training, and they have the proper tools & materials to do the job properly. Much like a bike mechanic, it's hard to be a good bike mechanic if you don't know what you are doing and/or lack the tools to do it. It's for sure something that can be learnt, but not many people have the proper training to it efficiently and to do it well. Making footbeds or re-molding a shell to the exact shape of your foot is something that does require proper training.
Nov 6 2018 1:23PM
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powpatrol
Posts: 1635 - Karma: 10,712
onenerdykidBoot seller- a person in a shop who just sells boots without knowing how to really solve fit issues. These people are very common, and often well intentioned, but often lack the knowledge & tools to do any real modification to your boots.

Boot fitter - a person in a shop who has special training on foot biomechanics, shell-cuff-liner modification, and making footbeds. They have the knowledge and the tools required to properly solve fit issues.

Boot fitters by no means possess secret knowledge, but they do have knowledge, they have received training, and they have the proper tools & materials to do the job properly. Much like a bike mechanic, it's hard to be a good bike mechanic if you don't know what you are doing and/or lack the tools to do it. It's for sure something that can be learnt, but not many people have the proper training to it efficiently and to do it well. Making footbeds or re-molding a shell to the exact shape of your foot is something that does require proper training.


I love when random people try go against the godly nerdy kid without realising what he’s all about.
Nov 6 2018 2:01PM
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JAlps
Posts: 555 - Karma: 1,934
Go to a Bootfitter before you even pick a model, seriously. You can go stack up the pros and cons of weight, mobility, soles etc. all day but if it doesn't fit your foot you are in for a terrible time.

Hawx XTD's are one of the sickest boots out there right now, but are extremely narrow in just about every way. Fortunately they are also one of the best heat molding boots on the market and I've heard of some dudes pushing the last (width) out 10 mm successfully. While I don't really recommend going this route if you have a wide foot it could be an option if you are looking for a super tight performance fit.

Lupo's are an awesome boot, and just about everybody I ski with owns them and loves them. I haven't heard a single complaint about their performance in the resort. One thing I will say though is that the removable tongue system and the buckles can be a bit cumbersome at times and aren't the easiest thing to really quickly buckle up. You do get used to it, but most of my buds never remove the tongue at all as it just takes too much time on turnarounds on big touring days.

Salomon QST's boots are definitely an option if you really do want to stick to a more alpine boot. They weigh the same as the SLab's and have almost the same amount of touring mobility... however when you add on the ~$140 cost of the tech soles you are basically at the price of the SLab's. If you have non touring ski setups with bindings that aren't MNC compatible (pivots, tyrolia attacks etc.) the swappable soles are a bitch but will make it so you don't have to get new bindings (or if you can hunt down beast heal inserts and put them into the Slabs that works too)

I'll try to wrap up this wall of text, but just gotta say... the Panterra 120 is a fucking BEEFY boot with a stock liner that packs out a ton, not something I would want to tour in haha.
Nov 7 2018 1:27AM
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907ski
Posts: 5 - Karma: 14
NightFantasiesGo to a Bootfitter before you even pick a model, seriously. You can go stack up the pros and cons of weight, mobility, soles etc. all day but if it doesn't fit your foot you are in for a terrible time.

Hawx XTD's are one of the sickest boots out there right now, but are extremely narrow in just about every way. Fortunately they are also one of the best heat molding boots on the market and I've heard of some dudes pushing the last (width) out 10 mm successfully. While I don't really recommend going this route if you have a wide foot it could be an option if you are looking for a super tight performance fit.

Lupo's are an awesome boot, and just about everybody I ski with owns them and loves them. I haven't heard a single complaint about their performance in the resort. One thing I will say though is that the removable tongue system and the buckles can be a bit cumbersome at times and aren't the easiest thing to really quickly buckle up. You do get used to it, but most of my buds never remove the tongue at all as it just takes too much time on turnarounds on big touring days.

Salomon QST's boots are definitely an option if you really do want to stick to a more alpine boot. They weigh the same as the SLab's and have almost the same amount of touring mobility... however when you add on the ~$140 cost of the tech soles you are basically at the price of the SLab's. If you have non touring ski setups with bindings that aren't MNC compatible (pivots, tyrolia attacks etc.) the swappable soles are a bitch but will make it so you don't have to get new bindings (or if you can hunt down beast heal inserts and put them into the Slabs that works too)

I'll try to wrap up this wall of text, but just gotta say... the Panterra 120 is a fucking BEEFY boot with a stock liner that packs out a ton, not something I would want to tour in haha.


Thank you, exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for. I have tried on the panterra (which i have decided not to go with), hawx, lupo, and full tilt ascendant. Found the last 2 for a great deal and about the same price online, just deciding which one to go with now.
Nov 7 2018 3:22AM
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CLQ
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 11,259
907skiThank you, exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for. I have tried on the panterra (which i have decided not to go with), hawx, lupo, and full tilt ascendant. Found the last 2 for a great deal and about the same price online, just deciding which one to go with now.


Tried on does not mean you have been fitted and theres about a 90% chance you buy a boot to big for your foot.
Nov 7 2018 6:22AM
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B.Quincy
Posts: 1074 - Karma: 963
NightFantasiesGo to a Bootfitter before you even pick a model, seriously. You can go stack up the pros and cons of weight, mobility, soles etc. all day but if it doesn't fit your foot you are in for a terrible time.

Hawx XTD's are one of the sickest boots out there right now, but are extremely narrow in just about every way. Fortunately they are also one of the best heat molding boots on the market and I've heard of some dudes pushing the last (width) out 10 mm successfully. While I don't really recommend going this route if you have a wide foot it could be an option if you are looking for a super tight performance fit.

Lupo's are an awesome boot, and just about everybody I ski with owns them and loves them. I haven't heard a single complaint about their performance in the resort. One thing I will say though is that the removable tongue system and the buckles can be a bit cumbersome at times and aren't the easiest thing to really quickly buckle up. You do get used to it, but most of my buds never remove the tongue at all as it just takes too much time on turnarounds on big touring days.

Salomon QST's boots are definitely an option if you really do want to stick to a more alpine boot. They weigh the same as the SLab's and have almost the same amount of touring mobility... however when you add on the ~$140 cost of the tech soles you are basically at the price of the SLab's. If you have non touring ski setups with bindings that aren't MNC compatible (pivots, tyrolia attacks etc.) the swappable soles are a bitch but will make it so you don't have to get new bindings (or if you can hunt down beast heal inserts and put them into the Slabs that works too)

I'll try to wrap up this wall of text, but just gotta say... the Panterra 120 is a fucking BEEFY boot with a stock liner that packs out a ton, not something I would want to tour in haha.


I am a fitter at a shop and I have the lupo ax 120 from last year, love them and with my nonexistent taper of my toes the fit required very little work so for me they rock. That being said, the XTD is sick, if I did it again I would get some XTDs and cook em a few times our atomic rep did this and has a pretty similar foot shape to me and its pretty easy to do. I am sure onenerdykid will chime in as it is his baby but atomics fit game is miles ahead right now and super sick.
Nov 8 2018 8:34AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
B.QuincyThat being said, the XTD is sick, if I did it again I would get some XTDs and cook em a few times our atomic rep did this and has a pretty similar foot shape to me and its pretty easy to do. I am sure onenerdykid will chime in as it is his baby but atomics fit game is miles ahead right now and super sick.


Appreciated!!
Nov 8 2018 9:55AM
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japanada
Posts: 13784 - Karma: 1,957
The XTDs or the Lupos are my favs. Currently in a lupo 130 and love em. Have had 2 sets of the XT 130s. Cracked the shell in the 1st pair and still have the 2nd sitting in the basement. The range of movement on the XTs leaves a lot to be desired. Also take a look at the neon yellow/green roxa boot. Designed by glen plake, super light, intuition liner. Pretty sweet boot, just was too short/long for my foot depending on the size.
Nov 9 2018 7:42AM
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Kbob94
Posts: 1237 - Karma: 7,708
So this is slightly along the lines of this thread but I figured why start a new one. I’m curious to know why aren’t there more boot companies making at 130 touring alpine boot that starts at a 100mm last. The only two that I know of in the industry are the Nordica strider 130 and the QST 130. Just curious what y’all think and your input. Maybe onenerdykid if you have more input that would be great.
Nov 9 2018 7:52AM
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patagonialuke
Posts: 1624 - Karma: 8,663
Kbob94So this is slightly along the lines of this thread but I figured why start a new one. I’m curious to know why aren’t there more boot companies making at 130 touring alpine boot that starts at a 100mm last. The only two that I know of in the industry are the Nordica strider 130 and the QST 130. Just curious what y’all think and your input. Maybe onenerdykid if you have more input that would be great.


I'd say you're mostly right in that there are more narrower-lasted crossover touring boots out there, but there are a decent number that are a bit wider. The Lange XT Free comes in a 100mm version, Scarpa Freedom RS is 101, Tecnica Cochise is 99, FT Ascendant is 102, Fischer Ranger Free is 99, and the Hawx Ultra XTD and Salomon S/Lab MTN are heat-moldable and I've heard of people who usually prefer 100mm lasts getting a good fit in those after molding.
Nov 9 2018 8:05AM
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Kbob94
Posts: 1237 - Karma: 7,708
patagonialukeI'd say you're mostly right in that there are more narrower-lasted crossover touring boots out there, but there are a decent number that are a bit wider. The Lange XT Free comes in a 100mm version, Scarpa Freedom RS is 101, Tecnica Cochise is 99, FT Ascendant is 102, Fischer Ranger Free is 99, and the Hawx Ultra XTD and Salomon S/Lab MTN are heat-moldable and I've heard of people who usually prefer 100mm lasts getting a good fit in those after molding.


Yeah that’s very true. The biggest thing I’ve run into is that they’ll make the wider last in the 120 flex but once it goes to the 130 flex all of a sudden they go to the narrow last. Which is slightly annoying especially for those guys who really want a stiff charging crossover boot but they need that wide last.
Nov 9 2018 8:09AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Kbob94So this is slightly along the lines of this thread but I figured why start a new one. I’m curious to know why aren’t there more boot companies making at 130 touring alpine boot that starts at a 100mm last. The only two that I know of in the industry are the Nordica strider 130 and the QST 130. Just curious what y’all think and your input. Maybe onenerdykid if you have more input that would be great.


If a 100mm last fits you out of the box, then it will be super easy to get a Hawx Ultra XTD to fit you.

The plastic is VERY moldable so you will gain width where needed and some instep height too. In the hands of a decent boot-fitter, this is easily achieved.
Nov 9 2018 9:29AM
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Kbob94
Posts: 1237 - Karma: 7,708
onenerdykidIf a 100mm last fits you out of the box, then it will be super easy to get a Hawx Ultra XTD to fit you.

The plastic is VERY moldable so you will gain width where needed and some instep height too. In the hands of a decent boot-fitter, this is easily achieved.


Ok that’s awesome and great to know!! Thanks so much.
Nov 9 2018 9:34AM
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postal_slime
Posts: 153 - Karma: 296
I’m just about to pull the trigger on some lupos ax 120s
I’m worried about the liner quality. Kinda feels cheap. Any durability issues anyone?
Nov 10 2018 11:34AM
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Colingarnes
Posts: 610 - Karma: 2,644
Pretty sure they make an ID version right..? Much nicer liner, maybe not that model tho.
zpr57I’m just about to pull the trigger on some lupos ax 120s
I’m worried about the liner quality. Kinda feels cheap. Any durability issues anyone?
Nov 10 2018 1:27PM
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japanada
Posts: 13784 - Karma: 1,957
Dalbello makes the AX120 in 100mm last. Swap the tongue and boom 130. Also any new boot can EASILY be stretched to 100mm.

Kbob94So this is slightly along the lines of this thread but I figured why start a new one. I’m curious to know why aren’t there more boot companies making at 130 touring alpine boot that starts at a 100mm last. The only two that I know of in the industry are the Nordica strider 130 and the QST 130. Just curious what y’all think and your input. Maybe onenerdykid if you have more input that would be great.
Nov 10 2018 6:08PM
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Kbob94
Posts: 1237 - Karma: 7,708
japanadaDalbello makes the AX120 in 100mm last. Swap the tongue and boom 130. Also any new boot can EASILY be stretched to 100mm.


Damn! I didn’t even think of that!! Thanks so much man.
Nov 10 2018 6:09PM
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Chunderface
Posts: 2438 - Karma: 9,565
Kbob94So this is slightly along the lines of this thread but I figured why start a new one. I’m curious to know why aren’t there more boot companies making at 130 touring alpine boot that starts at a 100mm last. The only two that I know of in the industry are the Nordica strider 130 and the QST 130. Just curious what y’all think and your input. Maybe onenerdykid if you have more input that would be great.


Scarpa Freedom RS. Stiff AF 130.
Nov 11 2018 1:40AM
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AGOF
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 3,602
japanadaDalbello makes the AX120 in 100mm last. Swap the tongue and boom 130. Also any new boot can EASILY be stretched to 100mm.


As far as I know the AX 120 and the the 130 use the same tongue, the extra plastic in the shell that narrows the boot is what adds the stiffness
Nov 11 2018 9:53PM
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maxwerks
Posts: 19 - Karma: 12
I have the same question as OP, I have a new setup of Kore 93 with Shift bindings for 50/50 touring and resort use. I am using Dynafit Beast Carbon in a size 25 but my Atomic FIS slalom boots are a 24 so I really need to downsize. Like the OP I only want minimal compromise in inbounds alpine performance. It would be great to find a 1500g that offers uncompromised downhill but I am not sure it exists. My very shortlist of lightweights:
* Tecnica Zero G Tour Pro
* Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 120/130
* Head Kore 1

Or a little heavier:
* Nordica Strider Dyn 130

It could help to add a zipfit liner to boost the downhill performance of the lightweights for inbounds skiing.

Thoughts? Anyone have on snow experiences with these?
Nov 14 2018 6:47PM
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patagonialuke
Posts: 1624 - Karma: 8,663
maxwerksI have the same question as OP, I have a new setup of Kore 93 with Shift bindings for 50/50 touring and resort use. I am using Dynafit Beast Carbon in a size 25 but my Atomic FIS slalom boots are a 24 so I really need to downsize. Like the OP I only want minimal compromise in inbounds alpine performance. It would be great to find a 1500g that offers uncompromised downhill but I am not sure it exists. My very shortlist of lightweights:
* Tecnica Zero G Tour Pro
* Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 120/130
* Head Kore 1

Or a little heavier:
* Nordica Strider Dyn 130

It could help to add a zipfit liner to boost the downhill performance of the lightweights for inbounds skiing.

Thoughts? Anyone have on snow experiences with these?


I'd take a look at all the boots mentioned above in this thread, go to a bootfitter, and see which one fits your foot the best.

The Hawx Ultra XTD boots are phenomenal, as is the Zero G. I think the Zero G makes more sense if you spend more time touring than in the resort, mostly cause it's so light, tours so well, and has a pretty thin (not very plush) liner. The Zero G still skis exceptionally well for how light it is, but if you're really splitting your time 50/50 (or more in the resort), I think slightly heavier boots like the Hawx XTD, Salomon MTN, Maestrale RS, Ranger Free, La Sportiva Synchro, or Dynafit Hoji Pro Tour would make more sense. The XTD is probably the closest one to a true alpine boot, but they're all very good boots on the downhill for how light they are.

And really, if you're not touring a whole lot, going with a boot in the 1700-2000 g range will probably make more sense. The Tecnica Cochise, Nordica Strider 130, Rossi Alltrack Elite 130, Scarpa Freedom RS, and Lange XT Free 130 are all great boots that will feel more similar to an alpine boot but that will let you go out on the occasional tour.

I would not recommend Kore 1 boot. It is not close to a 130 flex (probably closer to 110ish), and doesn't tour as well as the boots mentioned above.
Nov 14 2018 8:50PM
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maxwerks
Posts: 19 - Karma: 12
Odd that the Head Kore seems to underwhelm. Given its pedigree and the quality of the liner, I expected it to have the best downhill performance of this bunch. My bootfitter suggested to first try a size 24.5 zipfit liner in my size 25.5 Beast Carbon. If that fails we go for a new boot in 24.5. Unfortunately Hawx Ultra XTD has not been produced in 24 so that drops of the list.Blister in their review of the XTD 120 mentioned what a huge difference the liner makes in downhill performance. So I am wondering if a zipfit downhill liner would similarly boost the inbounds performance of the Zero G Tour Pro. Alternatively I may look at a heavier boot such as the Nordica Strider 130. Question is: which of these heavier tech alpine boots has the best ROM for skinning?
Nov 15 2018 1:33PM
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maxwerks
Posts: 19 - Karma: 12
Anyone try the Lange XT 140 pro? Is it just a different liner vs the XT 130?
Nov 18 2018 5:44PM
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LeeLau
Posts: 104 - Karma: 633
maxwerksI have the same question as OP, I have a new setup of Kore 93 with Shift bindings for 50/50 touring and resort use. I am using Dynafit Beast Carbon in a size 25 but my Atomic FIS slalom boots are a 24 so I really need to downsize. Like the OP I only want minimal compromise in inbounds alpine performance. It would be great to find a 1500g that offers uncompromised downhill but I am not sure it exists. My very shortlist of lightweights:
* Tecnica Zero G Tour Pro
* Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 120/130
* Head Kore 1

Or a little heavier:
* Nordica Strider Dyn 130

It could help to add a zipfit liner to boost the downhill performance of the lightweights for inbounds skiing.

Thoughts? Anyone have on snow experiences with these?


The Tecnica is awesome. I have it. But its a mid to low volume boot. I doubt a Zipfit liner would fit in there.

I don't know the Head Kore 1 at all or the Nordica
Nov 19 2018 9:06PM
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maxwerks
Posts: 19 - Karma: 12
Lee, do you use an intuition liner in the Pro Tour to boost its stifness? Do you rate it strong enough to drive GS race skis?

Another boot for the shortlist is the new Rossi Alltrack Elite LT. The Lange Promodel 140 sounds like the most beefy but I worry about its stated ROM of 43 degrees...
Nov 20 2018 1:58AM
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LeeLau
Posts: 104 - Karma: 633
maxwerksLee, do you use an intuition liner in the Pro Tour to boost its stifness? Do you rate it strong enough to drive GS race skis?

Another boot for the shortlist is the new Rossi Alltrack Elite LT. The Lange Promodel 140 sounds like the most beefy but I worry about its stated ROM of 43 degrees...


I do have a Tour wrap liner which is supposed to be stiffer but haven't used it yet in the Tecnica. On carpet it does make it feel stiffer.

I can't say it could drive GS race skis but only because I haven't tried. It does drive a fairly massive ski ( Prior Overlord 189) but thats not a super stiff unforgiving beast like a GS ski
Nov 20 2018 11:21AM
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maxwerks
Posts: 19 - Karma: 12
For GS skis the boot does not need to be rock hard like a slalom boot, but it does need to have full authority over the skis. Any wagueness in the flex would lead to a loss of control at really high speeds. Unfortunately it's not doable to test how the ZGTPs with a low volume zipfit liner would handle this. Do you think the Hawx XTD 120 might do better, or pretty much the same?
Nov 20 2018 4:34PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
maxwerksFor GS skis the boot does not need to be rock hard like a slalom boot, but it does need to have full authority over the skis. Any wagueness in the flex would lead to a loss of control at really high speeds. Unfortunately it's not doable to test how the ZGTPs with a low volume zipfit liner would handle this. Do you think the Hawx XTD 120 might do better, or pretty much the same?


I address your question in the Ultra XTD thread.
Nov 21 2018 7:18AM
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