Alright, I hate binding comparison threads as much as the last guy, but these two systems have really caught my eye and I'm trying to decide before they release in the fall. I already posted this to AT& Backcountry, but it's dead af over there. If anyone has firsthand knowledge that they want to contribute on either platform, it would be greatly appreciated!
The bindings:
Atomic/Salomon Shift
http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/salomon-atomic-shift-mnc-binding
CAST Freetour System
http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/cast-pivot-freetour-system
About me:
I've done a bit of research, and these two systems seem like the best of both worlds for binding retention on the downhill and weight saving on the uphill. I am using Atomic Hawx Utlra XTD 130 boots that have tech inserts and WTR soles, so both the Shift and new Pivot should be compatible. I typically run my DIN at around 11, and tend to ski more aggressive lines with switch landings and carves mixed in. Planning on mounting whatever I purchase onto a pair of Moment Bibby/Wildcat Tours in a 190.
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CAST vs Atomic/Salomon Shift, someone had to ask...
Well, I'd say if you already have Pivots, then go with CAST, otherwise go with Shift. There is a thread somewhere here with some CAST reviews, my experience was the same. The other thing that comes to mind is CAST production problems due to one of their contractors. Hopefully they solved them. Last year bindings should have been ready in November, but only arrived in March, which was really frustrating.
Shift is new to the market, it was only available for reviewers and atomic/salomon associated guys for previous season but looks solid. You can check blister or wildsnow reviews
**This post was edited on Jul 9th 2018 at 8:52:14pm
Shift is new to the market, it was only available for reviewers and atomic/salomon associated guys for previous season but looks solid. You can check blister or wildsnow reviews
**This post was edited on Jul 9th 2018 at 8:52:14pm
If you have any Shift-specific questions or want more details on it, just let me know!
N41v131355Well, I'd say if you already have Pivots, then go with CAST, otherwise go with Shift. There is a thread somewhere here with some CAST reviews, my experience was the same. The other thing that comes to mind is CAST production problems due to one of their contractors. Hopefully they solved them. Last year bindings should have been ready in November, but only arrived in March, which was really frustrating.
Shift is new to the market, it was only available for reviewers and atomic/salomon associated guys for previous season but looks solid. You can check blister or wildsnow reviews
**This post was edited on Jul 9th 2018 at 8:52:14pm
Thanks for the insight. I will be buying each setup from scratch, and in a perfect world, would like to add a second, skinnier touring ski next year. If I do that, I could use quiver killers with the shift binding across two skis, or purchase a second pair of pivots and the "2nd setup" add-on from CAST.
My quiver includes Moment Bibby 190 (non-tour) w/ pivots, Black Crows Nocta 185 w/ CAST + Pivots, and Moment Meridian Tour 181 w/ Tectons. Not special enough to have any experience with the Shift yet though :(
Bibby 190 is a pretty burly ski, and the tour version is not super light (still 8.5 lbs). When skiing 190 Bibby + Pivots + Lange Freetour 130, the boots felt too light to properly drive that setup, so I usually use my old racing boots when skiing the Bibby 190s. I think the heavier CAST system would likely pair better with your Bibby Tours in terms of how it rides on the downhill.
My 185 Noctas are about the same weight as 190 Bibby Tours, and with the CAST system they feel quite heavy on the uphill--yuuuge difference from my lighter Meridian tour + Tecton setup. I generally use the Noctas + CAST for shorter tours in the winter and the Meridians + Tectons for longer volcano summits in the spring/summer in the PNW.
For your skis and skiing style, my guess is CAST would be better. I just have doubts that the lighter Shift would pair as well with burlier 190 Bibby Tours. Luke from Moment posts on these forums and could probably give you a better idea of what bindings people are using on Bibby Tours. Might be worth posting on TGR too since lots of Bibby fanboys there.
Bibby 190 is a pretty burly ski, and the tour version is not super light (still 8.5 lbs). When skiing 190 Bibby + Pivots + Lange Freetour 130, the boots felt too light to properly drive that setup, so I usually use my old racing boots when skiing the Bibby 190s. I think the heavier CAST system would likely pair better with your Bibby Tours in terms of how it rides on the downhill.
My 185 Noctas are about the same weight as 190 Bibby Tours, and with the CAST system they feel quite heavy on the uphill--yuuuge difference from my lighter Meridian tour + Tecton setup. I generally use the Noctas + CAST for shorter tours in the winter and the Meridians + Tectons for longer volcano summits in the spring/summer in the PNW.
For your skis and skiing style, my guess is CAST would be better. I just have doubts that the lighter Shift would pair as well with burlier 190 Bibby Tours. Luke from Moment posts on these forums and could probably give you a better idea of what bindings people are using on Bibby Tours. Might be worth posting on TGR too since lots of Bibby fanboys there.
RFMIIFor your skis and skiing style, my guess is CAST would be better. I just have doubts that the lighter Shift would pair as well with burlier 190 Bibby Tours.
This is an interesting thing for people to experience. In terms of power transmission, the Shift feels like skiing on an STH 16, and provides more power to the ski than a Baron. I know it sounds like typical marketing blah blah blah, but everyone who has skied it will tell you the same. If I can manage to put them on each applicable ski in my quiver, I'm doing it.
onenerdykidThis is an interesting thing for people to experience. In terms of power transmission, the Shift feels like skiing on an STH 16, and provides more power to the ski than a Baron. I know it sounds like typical marketing blah blah blah, but everyone who has skied it will tell you the same. If I can manage to put them on each applicable ski in my quiver, I'm doing it.
I'm intrigued. Definitely plan on picking up a pair to stick on something. If the Shift lives up to everything the reviews thus far have said...goodbye CAST, goodbye frame bindings, and goodbye to a large chunk of Kingpin and Tecton sales.
onenerdykidThis is an interesting thing for people to experience. In terms of power transmission, the Shift feels like skiing on an STH 16, and provides more power to the ski than a Baron. I know it sounds like typical marketing blah blah blah, but everyone who has skied it will tell you the same. If I can manage to put them on each applicable ski in my quiver, I'm doing it.
Still gathering my thoughts to do a full reply to this thread, but for now, yeah, I totally agree with this. If I could have these on every ski I own, I probably would.
The shift skis better than any touring binding I've been on. To me it felt identical (if not better) than the Warden 13, and better than the Guardian 16. I do feel like I can drive a little harder on my STH 16s but only just... No difference to write home about. I'd go Shift 1000% over cast. Less hassle, less can go wrong when you're out there.
http://blistergearreview.com/at-binding-reviews/cast-freetour-upgrade-kit
Well, this sold it for me. I went CAST
Well, this sold it for me. I went CAST
ALawhttp://blistergearreview.com/at-binding-reviews/cast-freetour-upgrade-kit
Well, this sold it for me. I went CAST
I think thats the right choice for the time being. I'm sure how much I trust the durability on the Shift.
Shift everyday in my opinion. The pivot is great but the cast system is just more to go wrong and more weight. The shift skis so well and works any boots i want to stick in it. For me shift is a no brainer.
tomPietrowskiShift everyday in my opinion. The pivot is great but the cast system is just more to go wrong and more weight. The shift skis so well and works any boots i want to stick in it. For me shift is a no brainer.
I mean the Cast has multiple climbing bails, is made of metal, and is less complex. Why do you think that there is more to go wrong?
CLQI mean the Cast has multiple climbing bails, is made of metal, and is less complex. Why do you think that there is more to go wrong?
Well anytime you are converting a pre existing product there is potential for issues. Between Cast and Salomon/atomic I know who I would trust more. Not saying cast will be bad I would just not trust it as much
My quick and dirty would be: CAST is much more likely to have an issue on the uphills/transitions, but as a pure alpine binding Pivots are damn near impossible to beat. SHIFT is great, it totally does ski like an STH, but an STH doesn't ski like a Pivot. If you're a Pivot person, that matters. I'm not, but many are.
cydwhitMy quick and dirty would be: CAST is much more likely to have an issue on the uphills/transitions, but as a pure alpine binding Pivots are damn near impossible to beat. SHIFT is great, it totally does ski like an STH, but an STH doesn't ski like a Pivot. If you're a Pivot person, that matters. I'm not, but many are.
Cy, what kind of issue do you think CAST will have?
N41v131355Cy, what kind of issue do you think CAST will have?
The CAST tech toe is definitely a little more fiddly than any other tech toe. I had a few times where I really had to fight to get it on, and then locked onto my boots (see my review above) not the end of the world, it's just not as quick and pain free to transition as say, kingpins.
For me the shift was fantastic for the first few months that I used it. I skied it a little more inbounds than in the backcountry, abusing it jibbing alta on both harpack and mostly powder, and at first it was great. I put my DIN up a little higher than usual, checked and adjusted the toe height every once in a while, and it held on really well. Meanwhile it was lightyears ahead of my old frame bindings for going uphill.
After a few months though it started prereleasing super bad. I got to where I couldn't trust it to do a nosebutter in powder because it was an almost guaranteed prerelease. Switch landings were mostly a no go. It is still made of plastic, and after real inbounds abuse I think it just started to deteriorate. I think if I had used it as an only backcountry binding it would have held on much longer, it may have been naive to think that a touring binding would be ok with hardpack jumping and moguls. Still had a lot of fun on the Shift overall, but i'm curious to try the cast system for jump building and shorter tours to more difficult terrain where you want your bindings to be capable of holding on with impact and speed (like wolverine cirque).
Any gripes with the cast system? How legit is the pin toe that they give you? Is it ever difficult to swap the toe pieces in nasty weather? how much heavier is it than the shift?
After a few months though it started prereleasing super bad. I got to where I couldn't trust it to do a nosebutter in powder because it was an almost guaranteed prerelease. Switch landings were mostly a no go. It is still made of plastic, and after real inbounds abuse I think it just started to deteriorate. I think if I had used it as an only backcountry binding it would have held on much longer, it may have been naive to think that a touring binding would be ok with hardpack jumping and moguls. Still had a lot of fun on the Shift overall, but i'm curious to try the cast system for jump building and shorter tours to more difficult terrain where you want your bindings to be capable of holding on with impact and speed (like wolverine cirque).
Any gripes with the cast system? How legit is the pin toe that they give you? Is it ever difficult to swap the toe pieces in nasty weather? how much heavier is it than the shift?
My line vision 108s with a shift is nothing short of a visionary ski experience for me
Had both, sold shift now only have cast and a full tech binding for lighter days where I’m further out and not going to be skiing that hard because getting injured that far out would suck.
For me the shift was severely underwhelming, now I’ve never skied a solly binding other than a really old pair of 997s which I actually found way more trustworthy despite being almost 20 years old.
I had horrible pre releases from the shift, I checked them on our Montana testing machine three times and had the rep take a look at them. To me it seems like the heel essentially has no elasticity, your either locked in or suddenly you are not attached to your ski. Watched multiple friends tomohawk and leave skis at the top of pillow lines after double ejecting on the first drop, real pain in the ass to climb back up and get that in a couple feet of snow.
In my opinion the shift is essentially just a safer version of the kingpin that skis a little better but is heavier, I would consider it a touring binding not an every day binding.
In a similar manner I think the cast system does have its flaws, but those flaws are all limited to when you are going uphill, which I personally am not especially worried about considering they are absolutely solid on the way down. Also the newest version of cast with the purple tech toes fixes a lot of the issues that I had on my original version 2.0s that had the grey tech toes.
For me the shift was severely underwhelming, now I’ve never skied a solly binding other than a really old pair of 997s which I actually found way more trustworthy despite being almost 20 years old.
I had horrible pre releases from the shift, I checked them on our Montana testing machine three times and had the rep take a look at them. To me it seems like the heel essentially has no elasticity, your either locked in or suddenly you are not attached to your ski. Watched multiple friends tomohawk and leave skis at the top of pillow lines after double ejecting on the first drop, real pain in the ass to climb back up and get that in a couple feet of snow.
In my opinion the shift is essentially just a safer version of the kingpin that skis a little better but is heavier, I would consider it a touring binding not an every day binding.
In a similar manner I think the cast system does have its flaws, but those flaws are all limited to when you are going uphill, which I personally am not especially worried about considering they are absolutely solid on the way down. Also the newest version of cast with the purple tech toes fixes a lot of the issues that I had on my original version 2.0s that had the grey tech toes.
shift pre-releases horribly for every (male) person I know. Salomon didn't put enough travel in the heel. Cast is the only binding that makes no compromise in terms of skiing performance. If you want to ski hard, get a CAST. If you want OK performance without the weight or hassle of the CAST, get the salomon, crank the heel DIN to 13 and cross your fingers on landings/crud/no fall zones.
Shift has been awesome for me, inbounds and out. Put about 20 of my days last season on them and never had a prerelease issue other than on a couple switch hardpack landings. I'm a fairly light guy at 165lb and ride around DIN 9 so maybe that has something to do with it? My buddy's girlfriend has a pair of shifts too and sounds like she hasn't had an issue on them either.
For me they're living up to the hype of a touring binding that can totally perform inbounds.
For me they're living up to the hype of a touring binding that can totally perform inbounds.
KevskiShift has been awesome for me, inbounds and out. Put about 20 of my days last season on them and never had a prerelease issue other than on a couple switch hardpack landings. I'm a fairly light guy at 165lb and ride around DIN 9 so maybe that has something to do with it? My buddy's girlfriend has a pair of shifts too and sounds like she hasn't had an issue on them either.
For me they're living up to the hype of a touring binding that can totally perform inbounds.
Me too...after I got the forward pressure and AFD set up properly. I'm 5'7" 140 295bsl and have dins set at 8. I skied them pretty hard in a variety of conditions without issue.
Since I'm here anyone want to buy my shifts, I'm most likely not buying a new boot this year
I have the og cast, I've skied it everyday for the past 3 1/2 seasons now. My brother has the 2.0, and I'm finally retiring my system this season for the 3.0. New touring equipment needs at least 2 seasons to prove itself (looking at you kingpin). The shift does seem super dope, all the sponsored athletes say it skis well, tours well, fights the patriarchy, and possibly cures cancer. I had a pair of STH 16s before, which I loved, but after about a season and a half of use, the heel developed some pretty significant slop. Cast is the least bullshit of all the options, its metal, its a pivot, and if you do end up breaking something, they sell all the parts separately. plus, with the second ski kits, you can just buy cheap 12s and 14s and rock the same set of toe pieces on all your skis. I just recently saw a dude with a pair on his park skis (vishnus, new wave alert!!!!), and I've skied lots of park on my setup as well. Dependability is really the most important factor when it comes to touring. I'll take the extra weight and time to transition any day over boot-packing to the car because my binding broke.
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