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What are the downsides to Quiver Killers?

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supersquid
Posts: 1430 - Karma: 2,552
So next year I am looking at completing my quiver Gonna buy a 105 ski and a 116 underfoot. I also want to get into touring. Are there any downsides to putting quiver killers in them so I can use them for regular alpine and touring as well? This way I would only have to buy two skis and one touring binder and switch it between them. The only downside to this that I can see is putting two sets of holes in a brand new ski, as well as some potential conflicts with mounting positions between the bindings. What other negatives are there?
7 years ago
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24730 - Karma: 30,008
Cons - more bigger holes in your skis.

Pros - everything else.


I have a pair with 3 sets of quiver killers in them (my Tele bindings have longer hole patterns that cover over the other hole sets for alpine and AT) Just don't stack 4 holes horizontally across a ski and you'll be totally fine.
7 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
They are kind of expensive

They are a pain in the ass to instal and use.

You Swiss cheese your skis and pretty much ruin the resale value.

Somewhere about 50% of the way into your first installation you’ll wish you had just bought another ski or binding. Generally I have found Cost of inserts + time spent fucking with your skis + value lost on resale > cost of second pair of skis or bindings. YMMV.
7 years ago
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supersquid
Posts: 1430 - Karma: 2,552
cobra_commanderThey are kind of expensive

They are a pain in the ass to instal and use.

You Swiss cheese your skis and pretty much ruin the resale value.

Somewhere about 50% of the way into your first installation you’ll wish you had just bought another ski or binding. Generally I have found Cost of inserts + time spent fucking with your skis + value lost on resale > cost of second pair of skis or bindings. YMMV.


I work at a ski shop so installing them is very similar to installing helicoils. Thats not an issue. I am aware that the resale value if gonna be shit but I wouldnt plan on selling my skis so I am not worried about that. Can you elaborate on the difficulty of use? I can see it being annoying when your trying to change bindings after your tour ascent. But I wouldnt do that. I would change the binders in the shop the day before. Alpine binders for resort skiing and tech for tours. Only 1 binder a day.
7 years ago
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24730 - Karma: 30,008
supersquidI work at a ski shop so installing them is very similar to installing helicoils. Thats not an issue. I am aware that the resale value if gonna be shit but I wouldnt plan on selling my skis so I am not worried about that. Can you elaborate on the difficulty of use? I can see it being annoying when your trying to change bindings after your tour ascent. But I wouldnt do that. I would change the binders in the shop the day before. Alpine binders for resort skiing and tech for tours. Only 1 binder a day.


Yeah, theyre easy as hell to work with. No worse than snowboard bindings.

Another pro... added retention. more threads and more surface area of the ski retained onto the insert.

Resale value sucks on any ski that's been mounted even once, anyhow.
7 years ago
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Jaybrtn
Posts: 375 - Karma: 643
I run Binding Freedom inserts on a handful of my skis for the CAST system. No extra holes because the system used the same holes, but i can swap the system around to multiple skis as much as i want. Pretty sweet in my opinion.
7 years ago
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24730 - Karma: 30,008
JaybrtnI run Binding Freedom inserts on a handful of my skis for the CAST system. No extra holes because the system used the same holes, but i can swap the system around to multiple skis as much as i want. Pretty sweet in my opinion.


Pretty much the same as quiver killer. It uses the same holes that you would otherwise use and just mills them out a little wider. Same story.

I do like that you can technically throw a flathead in there and pull out the inserts if you break a ski or something... means you don't just throw em away.

Also, their universal mounting jig system is fucking rad.
7 years ago
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Wahsega
Posts: 3 - Karma: 11
I used Quiver Killers in 3 skis: 4FRNT's Click and Switchblade, and Liberty Variant 87. I'm using Tyrolia AAAtackk2 bindings. I like Quiver better then Binding Freedom as the slot in Freedom's for the screwdriver has the potential to let water in of not sealed with epoxy. However this weekend when I went to adjust the rear binding I couldn't. The cause was that Quivers use a pan head screw to install the bindings. This small added head height blocked the binding from moving. However Binding Freedom uses Posi Drive screws whose heads match what regular screws came with your bindings: flat head, small head, or low head screw. So check the clearances before installing if you want to adjust the binding length.
7 years ago
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supersquid
Posts: 1430 - Karma: 2,552
WahsegaI used Quiver Killers in 3 skis: 4FRNT's Click and Switchblade, and Liberty Variant 87. I'm using Tyrolia AAAtackk2 bindings. I like Quiver better then Binding Freedom as the slot in Freedom's for the screwdriver has the potential to let water in of not sealed with epoxy. However this weekend when I went to adjust the rear binding I couldn't. The cause was that Quivers use a pan head screw to install the bindings. This small added head height blocked the binding from moving. However Binding Freedom uses Posi Drive screws whose heads match what regular screws came with your bindings: flat head, small head, or low head screw. So check the clearances before installing if you want to adjust the binding length.


I assume you needed to change binding length because you had a different boot or friend with a different boot was using the ski? Or was this just when you needed to change bindings? What combination of binders are you using?

Also, what screw heads? do you need to use a different screw in the quivers than the screws that come with your bindings from the factory?
7 years ago
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Wahsega
Posts: 3 - Karma: 11
Was adjusting length for my son to try the Liberty ski's. Need to replace with a flathead screw. SLIDEWRIGHT.COM has good info on the proper screw sizes. My presumption looking at Quivers screw is that they are off the shelf stainless. I had a company here that only sells screws for western WA confirm it by visual inspection. Though this was on their quick eval. Bindings screws heads are a match for ski binding screws just threads are 5mm S.S. They have a knurled area on bottom of head to better lock binding in place.
7 years ago
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profa_212
Posts: 9217 - Karma: 40,498
supersquidI assume you needed to change binding length because you had a different boot or friend with a different boot was using the ski? Or was this just when you needed to change bindings? What combination of binders are you using?

Also, what screw heads? do you need to use a different screw in the quivers than the screws that come with your bindings from the factory?


WahsegaWas adjusting length for my son to try the Liberty ski's. Need to replace with a flathead screw. SLIDEWRIGHT.COM has good info on the proper screw sizes. My presumption looking at Quivers screw is that they are off the shelf stainless. I had a company here that only sells screws for western WA confirm it by visual inspection. Though this was on their quick eval. Bindings screws heads are a match for ski binding screws just threads are 5mm S.S. They have a knurled area on bottom of head to better lock binding in place.


yes it does require a different screw. Binding freedom has a full list of bindings with required screw lengths/types and you can buy them all through their online shop. Also, always use the locktite dampening stuff.
7 years ago
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supersquid
Posts: 1430 - Karma: 2,552
Bump, I got another question. Do quiver killers affect the characteristics of the ski? Would the extra metal make the ski feel damp/dead or absorb vibrations better?
7 years ago
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24730 - Karma: 30,008
supersquidBump, I got another question. Do quiver killers affect the characteristics of the ski? Would the extra metal make the ski feel damp/dead or absorb vibrations better?


I notice no difference. They aren't any better, they aren't any worse for how the skis actually ski.

I don't imagine there's any real noticeable difference. If the binding is affixed to the ski tightly, it doesn't matter what screw is holding it on as long as it keeps it there.. which both the standard self tapping woodscrews, and inserts do well.
7 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
supersquidI work at a ski shop so installing them is very similar to installing helicoils. Thats not an issue. I am aware that the resale value if gonna be shit but I wouldnt plan on selling my skis so I am not worried about that. Can you elaborate on the difficulty of use? I can see it being annoying when your trying to change bindings after your tour ascent. But I wouldnt do that. I would change the binders in the shop the day before. Alpine binders for resort skiing and tech for tours. Only 1 binder a day.


You have to remember to change the screws the day/night before. You will undoubtably forget to do this multiple nights because you’re tired, customers are shit heads, your third girlfriend this month just broke up with you, you didn’t get lunch, you want to the bar, you forgot your skis/bindings/whatever, or you told yourself you’ll do it in the morning. In the morning you’ll be too hungover/tired/whatever to do it, and now your friends are waiting for you or you brought the wrong set up.

You work in a shop, skis and bindings are cheap. Just get those.

Edit to add: with bindings like the shift and tecton the added benefit of a deadicated resort/touring binding is reduced significantly. Is it really worth your time and the cost of inserts, especially if your putting them on a ski which is already a compromise?

**This post was edited on Mar 20th 2018 at 7:23:50pm
7 years ago
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clorox
Posts: 1728 - Karma: 4,867
Anyone know the special locktite for quiver killers? My screws occasionally come loose and the shop that mounted them was clueless
7 years ago
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profa_212
Posts: 9217 - Karma: 40,498
GREEN_BASTARDAnyone know the special locktite for quiver killers? My screws occasionally come loose and the shop that mounted them was clueless


You can just buy it through the binding freedom website. Stuff is mandatory if you are running inserts.
7 years ago
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clorox
Posts: 1728 - Karma: 4,867
Profahoben_212You can just buy it through the binding freedom website. Stuff is mandatory if you are running inserts.


Thanks, just ordered some
7 years ago
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