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ON3P Kartel vs Candide 2.0

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Mj2936
Posts: 62 - Karma: 58
Hey guys, looking at these two skis as an alternative for my daily driver.

5'7" 160lbs, from the Midwest but ski west as much as possible.

My current daily driver is a Nordica enforcer 100 in 177cm but they are a little heavy and damp. Fun to ski, but requires more charging to really get a lot out of them, and sometimes feels a little sketchy in tight lines to turn quickly.

Looking at the kartel 98/108 vs the candide 2.0 for a more playful free ride ski for all snow conditions.

Thoughts? Any other skis? (Armada ARV, salomon QST, Etc).

Also how about sizing? I'm between the 171 and 176cm on the kartels, looking more to be all mountain than in the park

Thank you!

**This thread was edited on Jan 13th 2018 at 8:20:18pm
Jan 13 2018 6:37PM
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Greg_K
Posts: 947 - Karma: 2,718
The Enforcer is a great all mountain ski that is damp, forgiving and good in all conditions. The Kartel 98 will feel more lively, have more pop, has a forgiving tip/tail flex and lighter weight to make it more fun overall than the Enforcer. The build quality of ON3P skis are fantastic as well. It would have a substantial feel and do well all mountain like the Enforcer but with a much more playful feel.

The Faction Candide 2.0 is a symmetrical ski with a very soft flex that is more of a soft snow/wide park jibbing ski. It will be will be light ski but at the loss of dampness and it’s softer flex will not perform as well on harder snow or at speed. Build quality is not at the ON3P level with the CT series skis getting lots reports of delam or edge issues.

So Kartel 98 all day long if you want great all mountain performance that’s more fun than your current skis.
Jan 13 2018 8:41PM
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Mj2936
Posts: 62 - Karma: 58
Greg_KThe Enforcer is a great all mountain ski that is damp, forgiving and good in all conditions. The Kartel 98 will feel more lively, have more pop, has a forgiving tip/tail flex and lighter weight to make it more fun overall than the Enforcer. The build quality of ON3P skis are fantastic as well. It would have a substantial feel and do well all mountain like the Enforcer but with a much more playful feel.

The Faction Candide 2.0 is a symmetrical ski with a very soft flex that is more of a soft snow/wide park jibbing ski. It will be will be light ski but at the loss of dampness and it’s softer flex will not perform as well on harder snow or at speed. Build quality is not at the ON3P level with the CT series skis getting lots reports of delam or edge issues.

So Kartel 98 all day long if you want great all mountain performance that’s more fun than your current skis.


Thanks! If I go the kartel 98....what size do you think would be appropriate for me if I am using it all mountains and hitting more natural jumps and hits rather than man made park specific hits?
Jan 13 2018 8:56PM
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Greg_K
Posts: 947 - Karma: 2,718
On sizing 176cm or even the 181cm as it’s a twin tip with a decent amount of rocker and the fact that you will be more center mounted compared to the Enforcers will make them feel shorter. The longer 181cm will be a more stable but the 176cm will be more nimble in tighter spaces. 171cm is way too short for you.
Jan 13 2018 9:06PM
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ay_ray
Posts: 18 - Karma: 34
had same conflict this summer! ultimately went with the kartels (custom w softer carbon fibers bc i'm a 5'5 female) and i LOVE them
really great for all mountain but still soft enough to fuck around!! durability is amazinggg too - have skied over a ton of really big rocks this season and bases still look perfect
Jan 13 2018 10:33PM
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Cade2
Posts: 2124 - Karma: 2,704
Get those candides man
Jan 13 2018 10:48PM
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Mj2936
Posts: 62 - Karma: 58
ay_rayhad same conflict this summer! ultimately went with the kartels (custom w softer carbon fibers bc i'm a 5'5 female) and i LOVE them
really great for all mountain but still soft enough to fuck around!! durability is amazinggg too - have skied over a ton of really big rocks this season and bases still look perfect


thx!! I'll probably stick with the regular stiffness. Did you end up stiffening up the tail or tip?
Jan 13 2018 10:48PM
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ay_ray
Posts: 18 - Karma: 34
Mj2936thx!! I'll probably stick with the regular stiffness. Did you end up stiffening up the tail or tip?


no i didn't! i get a little chatter in the tips if i'm skiing super dicey snow but it's never been a real issue
& from what i've heard from a friend who used to ride the same ski that someone your size should be able to flex tip/tail p easily on reg stiffness should you desire to do so
Jan 13 2018 11:04PM
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laws
Posts: 373 - Karma: 789
ay_rayhad same conflict this summer! ultimately went with the kartels (custom w softer carbon fibers bc i'm a 5'5 female) and i LOVE them
really great for all mountain but still soft enough to fuck around!! durability is amazinggg too - have skied over a ton of really big rocks this season and bases still look perfect


Wyd on Newschoolers Amy? Lmao
Jan 14 2018 12:08AM
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Crispy.
Posts: 6102 - Karma: 7,626
Also check out the Black Crows Camox. Never have fallen in love with a ski more than these. Literally the perfect playful charger.
Jan 14 2018 8:37AM
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Greg_K
Posts: 947 - Karma: 2,718
Agree on the Camox recommendation as I've heard nothing but good things about that ski too. Similar to the Kartel 98 in that it's solid underfoot but with playful tip and tail that's fun all over the mountain.

For the original poster, you would be fine with your size on the standard Kartel 98 flex. Most skis from any manufacturer go up a touch in stiffness as they increase in length to compensate for the increase in weight of the taller person so the 176cm will be a bit stiffer than the 171cm.
Jan 14 2018 9:53AM
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Mj2936
Posts: 62 - Karma: 58
Greg_KAgree on the Camox recommendation as I've heard nothing but good things about that ski too. Similar to the Kartel 98 in that it's solid underfoot but with playful tip and tail that's fun all over the mountain.

For the original poster, you would be fine with your size on the standard Kartel 98 flex. Most skis from any manufacturer go up a touch in stiffness as they increase in length to compensate for the increase in weight of the taller person so the 176cm will be a bit stiffer than the 171cm.


Still softer and more playful than the enforcer 100?

And what do you think of the 108s if I wont be exploring as much powder?

**This post was edited on Jan 14th 2018 at 10:29:32am
Jan 14 2018 10:16AM
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Greg_K
Posts: 947 - Karma: 2,718
The Kartel or Camox are both solid underfoot but with more forgiving tip and tails giving them solid hard snow performance while still being playful in the soft snow. The Enforcer is softer in the tip compared to underfoot but stiffer in the tail which helps hard snow carving but is less forgiving in bumps etc. The more forgiving tail, the more forward binding mount and lighter ski weight will make either the Kartel 98 or Camox an easier ski to manage.

The advantage of the Kartel 108 vs 98 would be more float for the 108 in deeper snow/powder but at the sacrifice of edge to edge quickness on firmer snow. As a ski not being used much in powder as you say, stay with the 98 as it will be easier to ski on non pow days than the 108. Rent/get a dedicated powder ski for truly deep days but anything except that would be easily handled on a 98mm wide ski. Good one ski quiver size for your area.

**This post was edited on Jan 14th 2018 at 11:13:16am
Jan 14 2018 11:12AM
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SHREDHOUND
Posts: 35 - Karma: 143
I'm in a very similar position to you, as I am 6'1" 175lbs and am looking for a more playful alternative to my 185cm Nordica Enforcers and maybe bridge the gap to my 192cm QST 118.

I ski at Whistler and am a more directional skier who likes to charge hard but am interested in learning to ski park, as well as ski the whole mountain. The Candides have been on my radar, as well as the Kartel, both in the 98 and the 108, but I am having a hard time deciding which would suit my needs best. My gut says to go with the 98 but it would seem counterproductive to have two of my 3 pairs of skis be essentially the same width.

Any suggestions?
Jan 15 2018 3:38PM
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Mj2936
Posts: 62 - Karma: 58
Any other input, candidss vs kartels?
Jan 16 2018 9:57AM
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Mj2936
Posts: 62 - Karma: 58
Crispy.Also check out the Black Crows Camox. Never have fallen in love with a ski more than these. Literally the perfect playful charger.


Very interesting ski. If I choose the kartels as sort of a all mountain freestyle ski...would I suffer too much with the 108 width in hardpack and groomer conditions at my size and weight? I'm used to the enforcers, but they are heavy skis with metal in them. I'm really stuck between the 98 and 108. Want to be able to hit the terrain park some, but I mostly ski around the mountain, not so much park
Jan 18 2018 1:59AM
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_Jeffrey_
Posts: 1651 - Karma: 572
Get the Kartel 108 for all mountain. Once you go ON3P it's hard going back to any other brand
Jan 18 2018 2:15AM
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ay_ray
Posts: 18 - Karma: 34
Mj2936Very interesting ski. If I choose the kartels as sort of a all mountain freestyle ski...would I suffer too much with the 108 width in hardpack and groomer conditions at my size and weight? I'm used to the enforcers, but they are heavy skis with metal in them. I'm really stuck between the 98 and 108. Want to be able to hit the terrain park some, but I mostly ski around the mountain, not so much park


this question wasn't directed towards me but I'm going to answer anyway!
108 might be a little wide but it's definitely still usable as an all-mtn ski, you just need to work a little harder in certain conditions-- i'm 5'5/120 and rode 106 underfoot as an all mountain ski for like 2 years before I got anything narrower (really only had a hard time when it got slushy in the spring)
Jan 18 2018 11:10PM
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Mj2936
Posts: 62 - Karma: 58
ay_raythis question wasn't directed towards me but I'm going to answer anyway!
108 might be a little wide but it's definitely still usable as an all-mtn ski, you just need to work a little harder in certain conditions-- i'm 5'5/120 and rode 106 underfoot as an all mountain ski for like 2 years before I got anything narrower (really only had a hard time when it got slushy in the spring)


I ride mostly west for my trips, but my local mountain is Midwest, and that is only really as warmups for my big trips out west. As we saw this year though, "out west" can still mean shitty or icy conditions depending on the season. I guess I'm nervous because I've never skied anything above 100mm but maybe I need to just bite the bullet
Jan 18 2018 11:36PM
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ay_ray
Posts: 18 - Karma: 34
Mj2936I ride mostly west for my trips, but my local mountain is Midwest, and that is only really as warmups for my big trips out west. As we saw this year though, "out west" can still mean shitty or icy conditions depending on the season. I guess I'm nervous because I've never skied anything above 100mm but maybe I need to just bite the bullet


if you're worried 108 is too fat for an everyday ski, then just stick with the 98 !! they're a really solidly built ski and can handle a lot of what you throw at them. 108 honestly is really wide for an "all mountain" ski & if you later decide you need a wider ski for snowier days it's fine to have a multi-ski quiver
Jan 19 2018 12:02AM
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Mj2936
Posts: 62 - Karma: 58
ay_rayif you're worried 108 is too fat for an everyday ski, then just stick with the 98 !! they're a really solidly built ski and can handle a lot of what you throw at them. 108 honestly is really wide for an "all mountain" ski & if you later decide you need a wider ski for snowier days it's fine to have a multi-ski quiver


Not a bad idea. Something like get a kartel 108 later, or maybe something like the CT 3.0/4.0?
Jan 19 2018 12:11AM
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ay_ray
Posts: 18 - Karma: 34
Mj2936Not a bad idea. Something like get a kartel 108 later, or maybe something like the CT 3.0/4.0?


yeah exactly! like a 98 underfoot for most days and something fatter (106+) for days when there's lots of snow

obviously a multi-ski quiver isn't by any means necessary but if you purchase some slimmer skis now and find yourself needing a pow ski a couple years down the road that's probably totally reasonable
Jan 19 2018 10:37PM
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Mj2936
Posts: 62 - Karma: 58
For all who have skied the 98 vs 108, do you feel that the 108 is much slower edge to edge, or noticeably stiffer flex? Especially if the enforcer felt slightly slow in swing weight?
Jan 20 2018 11:20AM
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Greg_K
Posts: 947 - Karma: 2,718
The wider you go on any ski will be slower edge to edge especially on hard pack(less noticeable on softer snow) as well as having a longer turning radius and ski weight going up as you get wider within most companies lines. Not a huge difference but noticeable especially in tighter spots which seems to be your issue with the Enforcers. The Kartel 98 would be a great one ski quiver for someone in your area and a more playful replacement for what you have in the Enforcer. The Kartel 108 is a little overkill for your area as a daily driver and more of a West Coast one ski quiver or part of a quiver for someone like you. The weight of the Kartel 108 is about the same as your Enforcer skis although the Kartel's mount position will help with swing weight to make them feel lighter.

The Kartel 98 will be exactly what you want(more playful Enforcer that's great in all conditions like the Enforcer) and think you will find yourself using the Kartel 98 as your daily driver and then could replace the Enforcer with a wider Kartel like the 108/116 as your "bring to West Coast/snow days in the midwest" ski or brought with the Kartel 98 in case there is no new snow when you go.

BTW-what bindings are you using with the Enforcers? Part of your "feels too heavy" on that ski might be binding weight and a lighter binding like the Attack 13 would shed some weight on the new skis as the Enforcers are really not that heavy compared to other skis of that width.
Jan 20 2018 1:11PM
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Mj2936
Posts: 62 - Karma: 58
Greg_KThe wider you go on any ski will be slower edge to edge especially on hard pack(less noticeable on softer snow) as well as having a longer turning radius and ski weight going up as you get wider within most companies lines. Not a huge difference but noticeable especially in tighter spots which seems to be your issue with the Enforcers. The Kartel 98 would be a great one ski quiver for someone in your area and a more playful replacement for what you have in the Enforcer. The Kartel 108 is a little overkill for your area as a daily driver and more of a West Coast one ski quiver or part of a quiver for someone like you. The weight of the Kartel 108 is about the same as your Enforcer skis although the Kartel's mount position will help with swing weight to make them feel lighter.

The Kartel 98 will be exactly what you want(more playful Enforcer that's great in all conditions like the Enforcer) and think you will find yourself using the Kartel 98 as your daily driver and then could replace the Enforcer with a wider Kartel like the 108/116 as your "bring to West Coast/snow days in the midwest" ski or brought with the Kartel 98 in case there is no new snow when you go.

BTW-what bindings are you using with the Enforcers? Part of your "feels too heavy" on that ski might be binding weight and a lighter binding like the Attack 13 would shed some weight on the new skis as the Enforcers are really not that heavy compared to other skis of that width.


You are absolutely correct. Length may have something to do with it too. Im skiing it in a 177cm which is great in wide open terrain, but probably why feels a little sluggish in tight spots. I have look pivots on them. I think your idea of the kartel 98 as a daily with a 108 as a second (as previously suggested, something like a kartel 108 or BG or candide 3.0) may be the two ski quiver I ultimately end up with
Jan 20 2018 2:12PM
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Mj2936
Posts: 62 - Karma: 58
Also, I almost never ski the midwest ha. But...if this season shows out west can mean bad snow
Jan 20 2018 2:22PM
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Greg_K
Posts: 947 - Karma: 2,718
Even skiing out West/Mid West I’d still pick the Kartel 98. There’s not a huge difference between them but you’d be sacrificing overall performance on fewer days (days without new snow) on the 98 and get a powder ski eventually for when it does snow.
Skied Fernie this season and Whistler last season on my 95 underfoot daily drivers for the Mid West as there was no fresh snow either time and they were great. Brought 105 underfoot skis out there as well and barely used them.

Pivots aren’t too heavy and are fantastic bindings. Could save a bit of weight with the Pivot 12 or 14 rather than the Metal Pivot 18 I guess if you wanted to trim some weight.
Was wondering if you had a demo binding on the Enforcers which would add noticeable weight compared to the regular version of the binding.
Jan 20 2018 5:33PM
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Mj2936
Posts: 62 - Karma: 58
Greg_KEven skiing out West/Mid West I’d still pick the Kartel 98. There’s not a huge difference between them but you’d be sacrificing overall performance on fewer days (days without new snow) on the 98 and get a powder ski eventually for when it does snow.
Skied Fernie this season and Whistler last season on my 95 underfoot daily drivers for the Mid West as there was no fresh snow either time and they were great. Brought 105 underfoot skis out there as well and barely used them.

Pivots aren’t too heavy and are fantastic bindings. Could save a bit of weight with the Pivot 12 or 14 rather than the Metal Pivot 18 I guess if you wanted to trim some weight.
Was wondering if you had a demo binding on the Enforcers which would add noticeable weight compared to the regular version of the binding.


Nope not demo bindings. You think the 98/108 is enough of a waist difference? I'm thinking that would be the setup (unless I go billygoat or something like the CT 4.0 for pure powder)
Jan 20 2018 9:41PM
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Greg_K
Posts: 947 - Karma: 2,718
With a 2 ski quiver, I’d go with a bigger difference with your Kartel 98 as the daily driver and something like a 115 or wider powder ski. Lots of fun playful powder skis that would compliment the Kartels well.
With a 3 pairs or more ski quiver, put the Kartel 108 in there for in between days.
Jan 20 2018 11:13PM
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ay_ray
Posts: 18 - Karma: 34
TL;DR pull trig on the 98s!!! amazingggggg SUPER FUN all-mountain ski that's way more any-condition friendly than a 108

bindings-wise consider pivots!! i ride the 12s and have always felt super stable and safe
they don't add too much weight to the ski so you can still throw the fuck down but release when you need to
Jan 21 2018 2:07AM
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