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Starting as a snow maker next week... What kind of boots do i need?
I would imagine that you would want to drop some serious money on them considering how much water will be falling on you and how cold of conditions you will be in. I also believe steel toe would be a normal feature on work boots.
You can talk to your manager and ask as well. Sometimes you might get a deal on a certain brand of boots that work with your mountain. I got free snowboard boots last year because of our partnership with a chain of shops. Always worth asking.
If not at least you'll know you aren't missing a deal. And he can tell you what he likes, and what other people on the crew generally rock.
Check out some mountaineering boots. Good place to start.
If you ride for work, wear your ski boots. If you're on 4 wheelers/skidoos, Baffin or Sorells will be fine, but shitty for walking on icy patches made by leaky hoses/pipes.
I always snowmake in ski boots or La sportiva mountaineering boots, because I often need crampons at work.
Here are some other things you need to survive snowmaking:
-Weed.
-Lots and lots of Kinco Mittens/Gloves.
-Clear Goggle lenses.
-A high tolerance for old, worn out, frustrating equipment and coworkers.
-Weed.
-A good drying room.
-Coffee.
-Quick reactions so you can dodge shitty unrated chinese aluminum camlocks popping off at any time, unless your resort is so shit there isn't even enough water pressure to break them.
**This post was edited on Oct 17th 2017 at 8:27:44pm
If you ride for work, wear your ski boots. If you're on 4 wheelers/skidoos, Baffin or Sorells will be fine, but shitty for walking on icy patches made by leaky hoses/pipes.
I always snowmake in ski boots or La sportiva mountaineering boots, because I often need crampons at work.
Here are some other things you need to survive snowmaking:
-Weed.
-Lots and lots of Kinco Mittens/Gloves.
-Clear Goggle lenses.
-A high tolerance for old, worn out, frustrating equipment and coworkers.
-Weed.
-A good drying room.
-Coffee.
-Quick reactions so you can dodge shitty unrated chinese aluminum camlocks popping off at any time, unless your resort is so shit there isn't even enough water pressure to break them.
**This post was edited on Oct 17th 2017 at 8:27:44pm
Times are changing. Most places drug test you if you ever get injured now. Worth thinking about if you're working mtn ops.
Depending on your shift regulations and what not there's a few different options. If you have the day shift and are Predominantly skiing save your pennies and just rock ski boots.
If you require steel toe and temps don't go below -20 celsius you can get away with steel toed baffins without losing your toes from frostbite. otherwise splurge on a pair of scarpa mountaineering boots.
If you don't require steel toe, you'll be more then happy with a pair of woods waterproof neoprene boots. I've been snowmaking in northern Alberta for 3 years and spent 12hr night shifts at the summit of Lake Louise, soaked/frozen from head to toe, in -40c, with high winds and not much shelter, on many occasions and these boots kept me toasty and dry, time and time again, and they'll only set you back 50 bucks.
Just a word of caution, if you get non steel toed boots be a little more cautious, I've never been in any scenarios where i needed steel toes as a snowmaker but different work places have different hazards.
**This post was edited on Oct 18th 2017 at 12:15:52am
**This post was edited on Oct 18th 2017 at 12:32:34am
My friend rocked Scarpa Invernos that he got from a used ski shop and raved about them. They're a great product the only issue I've seen with mountaineering boots is that they don't usually come high up and I can see water and snow getting in there easily If your pants manage to get above your ankles.
I also think the pay scale ski area wide industry wide is horrible. I'm sure I'm a broken record on that. But when you're paying semi skilled positions (snowmaker, groomer, lift ops, etc) $10/hr it's pretty bad. You make better money and better benifits flipping burgers. And the "perks" in ski business is just skiing, if you even have the time too.
If the ski business followed the construction industry standards it would be better. Because a snowmaker is a laborer. A groomer is an equipment operator. Could match others up as well here and there to other industries. These positions pay over double at times then ski area jobs but are the same.
Ski patrol union helped some of this on their side. I'm not pro or anti union, but maybe the ski business needs that more. Get a kick in the ass for pay. Until then you will continue to have short staffed ski areas which leads to problems from parking to tickets to snow to lifts to burgers.
SkiBum.$10/hr is good pay? Because thats standard starting pay for that position ski area wide.
Oh you do it for a few seasons or your a supervisor. Cool, your at $14 an hour now. Yay.
When you're working massive shifts all the time and getting OT. It adds up. If you don't [mind the work you can do pretty well.
The ski industry doesn't really pay that well in general. But you can do alright snowmaking. And if you're any good it's an easy way to transfer into park crew or grooming.
SkiBum.$10/hr is good pay? Because thats standard starting pay for that position ski area wide.
Oh you do it for a few seasons or your a supervisor. Cool, your at $14 an hour now. Yay.
Not sure where you work but at the resort I work at our snowmakers start around $14hr. It's in the Aspen area so that is still low for the area. Our guys do 12 on 12 off and can do 6 days a week if they want.
After 40hrs its all over time so that first year is making $21hr for 30ish hours a week..... I don't feel bad because he's making bank.
SkiBum.I also think the pay scale ski area wide industry wide is horrible. You make better money and better benifits flipping burgers. And the "perks" in ski business is just skiing, if you even have the time too.
If the ski business followed the construction industry standards it would be better. Because a snowmaker is a laborer. A groomer is an equipment operator. Could match others up as well here and there to other industries. These positions pay over double at times then ski area jobs but are the same.
Ski patrol union helped some of this on their side. I'm not pro or anti union, but maybe the ski business needs that more. Get a kick in the ass for pay. Until then you will continue to have short staffed ski areas which leads to problems from parking to tickets to snow to lifts to burgers.
Your absolutely right that a majority of most ski resorts take advantage of the workers.
But the reason it's like this is were a seasonal workforce. Its a short period of time to try maximize profits and a lot of places are not even year round. It's way too easy to shuffle people through.
I really wish the starting wages could be higher, employee housing more plentiful & cheaper, plus a union would be awesome.
But it comes down to a lot of small places would go out of business.
A union would be great but then in off season you need to pay union dues to keep it going. I guess that's more of just getting things together and making sure people pay the dues.
I guess you could try to make a ski resort union where multiple positions fall underneath. Have snowcat drivers, snowmakers, lifties, park builders, and other labor mountain positions all shared the same union.
It would not be easy as it sounds. https://www.wikihow.com/Form-a-Union
Yeah, 50kal. I think all the bigger places start over 10. I can't see vail starting anybody snowmaking for less than 11, maybe even 12. I guess some of the smaller places could still be rocking 10, maybe a few just under.
The overtime def adds up though. They're doing alright, at least for the ski industry.
I've worked for Powdr Corp, Vail and Peak Resorts. So, I don't know Aspen/KSL/Intrawest (or whoever are all under now) pay scale. But while I worked for all those base pay started at $10, sometimes lower. I'm pretty familiar with industry standards still and while you could run into exceptions here and there, $10-12 seemed standard for most. Yeah, you get lots of overtime (if you get paid overtime, some resorts don't pay OT till 50+ hours because it's a seasonal job)...that differs by state laws as well.
Moral of my rant is the ski industry pay standards are the same as the fast food industry. And it needs to change. And hopefully some day it does because I don't know how you staff these days with housing resort costs and inflation at destination resorts.
I've also heard similar pay horror stories from sister industries such as Disney/theme parks.
Ski area work is fun for the most part. People work in an industry they enjoy even though pay is bad. I get it and have seen it.
SkiBum.I've worked for Powdr Corp, Vail and Peak Resorts. So, I don't know Aspen/KSL/Intrawest (or whoever are all under now) pay scale. But while I worked for all those base pay started at $10, sometimes lower. I'm pretty familiar with industry standards still and while you could run into exceptions here and there, $10-12 seemed standard for most. Yeah, you get lots of overtime (if you get paid overtime, some resorts don't pay OT till 50+ hours because it's a seasonal job)...that differs by state laws as well.
Moral of my rant is the ski industry pay standards are the same as the fast food industry. And it needs to change. And hopefully some day it does because I don't know how you staff these days with housing resort costs and inflation at destination resorts.
I've also heard similar pay horror stories from sister industries such as Disney/theme parks.
Ski area work is fun for the most part. People work in an industry they enjoy even though pay is bad. I get it and have seen it.
Aspen pays more generally across the board. Sometimes by a good amount.
I wouldn't complain if the ski industry paid more though. For some people it's something to do in a gap year to get the ski bum experience and it doesn't matter. Other people are doing it long term and it really can get tough. Rent in the vacation destination areas isn't getting any cheaper.
I would probably still work in the ski industry if it paid in meatballs but making enough so you can pay rent AND eat is generally a good thing for most people. Being able to save a couple of bucks as well wouldn't hurt either.
theabortionatorAspen pays more generally across the board. Sometimes by a good amount.
I would probably still work in the ski industry if it paid in meatballs but making enough so you can pay rent AND eat is generally a good thing for most people. Being able to save a couple of bucks as well wouldn't hurt either.
Aspen does pay good is some positions and other positions the pay is piss poor like a lot of places. I like working for Aspen but they could do a lot of easy things better.
To get this thread back on track OP, whatever boot you get it should have a removable liner (personal opinion).
It will help you dry your boots if you are able to remove your liner. Dry boots are key for long cold nights.
If you ride for work, wear your ski boots. If you're on 4 wheelers/skidoos, Baffin or Sorells will be fine, but shitty for walking on icy patches made by leaky hoses/pipes.
I always snowmake in ski boots or La sportiva mountaineering boots, because I often need crampons at work.
Here are some other things you need to survive snowmaking:
-Weed.
-Lots and lots of Kinco Mittens/Gloves.
-Clear Goggle lenses.
-A high tolerance for old, worn out, frustrating equipment and coworkers.
-Weed.
-A good drying room.
-Coffee.
-Quick reactions so you can dodge shitty unrated chinese aluminum camlocks popping off at any time, unless your resort is so shit there isn't even enough water pressure to break them.
**This post was edited on Oct 17th 2017 at 8:27:44pm
True. I only did a temp season there last year when a work visa fell through. I really only knew what the day crew and park operators were making.
That said I felt like they had a pretty good vibe going there.
Was that you that I got those comps from last year? If so much appreciated. We ended up passing the others along, but it got a friend that I hadn't seen in a while to come down for 2 days and bike around, and ski all day at aspen. Thanks!
Sorry, taking the thread back off track again. All these people complaining about $10-14/hr qualifying as "taking advantage" of workers and not paying enough must be clueless. What do you think it should be? $20? I'd say $10-14 starting is pretty darn good for a job that requires no prior skills beforehand. Now if it was minimum wage paying, then yeah i could agree with that. Not to mention, these workers are a dime a dozen and if you try to bargain, there's always someone else to fill your place. These occupations thrive on seasonal workers and college students.
Sure I'll start a mountain ops union. Dues are $15/paycheck and I'll negotiate salary and benefits for you all :)
IsitWinterYet17Sorry, taking the thread back off track again. All these people complaining about $10-14/hr qualifying as "taking advantage" of workers and not paying enough must be clueless. What do you think it should be? $20? I'd say $10-14 starting is pretty darn good for a job that requires no prior skills beforehand. Now if it was minimum wage paying, then yeah i could agree with that. Not to mention, these workers are a dime a dozen and if you try to bargain, there's always someone else to fill your place. These occupations thrive on seasonal workers and college students.
Sure I'll start a mountain ops union. Dues are $15/paycheck and I'll negotiate salary and benefits for you all :)
Well $10 is minimum wage in most states. $14 is generous if you read above.
Also, these employees are not a dime a dozen. The large resorts have faced huge employee shortages. They have entire hiring departments just to try to fill enough potions to get buy for a year. The main hiring issues are stated above, pay, housing, short term work, resort town expenses. I think wages should be comparable to other industry like I stated above.
SkiBum.Well $10 is minimum wage in most states. $14 is generous if you read above.
Also, these employees are not a dime a dozen. The large resorts have faced huge employee shortages. They have entire hiring departments just to try to fill enough potions to get buy for a year. The main hiring issues are stated above, pay, housing, short term work, resort town expenses. I think wages should be comparable to other industry like I stated above.
All true, but the thing that most people don't seem to understand is that all these problems that resort towns face are all self inflicted and it's all cyclical. Good people are difficult to find. Why? Because the pay is shit and the towns are expensive and close to impossible to make an actual home in. Why? Because resorts refuse to break the decades old mold of disposable seasonal employees.
All it takes from a potential recruit is a quick google search to figure out that ski town living is brutal, uncomfortable, & expensive. So what do resort operators do? They all get together and lobby at a state and federal level for more J1's who come here on an extended vacation taking up beds and putting resorts at risk. In my experience J1's generally don't give a fuck about the quality of work they're doing. They just want to smuggle chicken tendies out of whatever cafeteria they're working at to save money on food to buy loads of iphones to take home and flip (literally the story of my roommates and all of their friends from Peru 2 years ago).
Why is housing a joke in resort towns? Because it's 2017 and existing home owners have figured out that they can pay their mortgages in one week by renting out their spot on a phone app for cheaper than a guest would pay at a hotel. Resort towns can't keep up with these issues because they're too busy spending tax dollars trying to ban plastic bags to pat themselves on the back or building paved bike paths to advertise how INSANELY outdoorsy a paved bike path is. Usable land sits vacant or zoned improperly until a developer comes along who wants to build condos for more 2nd and 3rd home owners instead of developing housing solutions for their work force that they're so eager to see leave at the end of the winter.
Why are resort towns so expensive? Because these towns were designed to be vacant half the year and that leaves a huge tax burden on all the dummies like myself who live in one year round. On top of that how are brick and mortar stores supposed to stay competitive with a 10+% local & or state tax rate? Anyone remember how there used to be good ski shops in Colorado? Now it's all VRR, Sun & Ski, Breeze, or Christy Sports. Oh wait, summit just an REI!!! It would be really interesting to see how much vacant retail space exists in the rockies.
But back to the pay topic...Anything Mtn, Ops can get absolutely brutal at times. If it were up to me lifts, snowmaking, parks, cat operators... they should all be making bank with the opportunity to work OT if they want it. Those are the ones who are here to make a career and make a home. With all that said.. Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, and other similar places all start at ~$15/hr. up here. It's not that resorts can't keep up with those pay rates, it's that they refuse to. They look at it from a perspective of having a ski pass as big compensation. My ski pass works to get up the lift but it sure as hell doesn't pay bills.
All in all things in big resort towns are pretty fucked and no one even seems to care about fixing anything. Personally, I'm over it.
I was gonna reply to his post but I think you covered it pretty damn well Tom.
Ski areas look at everyone as expendable. But if you wan't to get or grow quality employees it's not a great approach.
Sure ski areas take people on with no related skills. But they train them. It's not like every job at a ski resort is some mindless unskilled job. Some of the more skilled jobs, people could take their same skill set, move to another industry and kill it.
For some reason there will always be some hopeless folk that really care about skiing/the industry, and will keep coming back even if we're living in a cardboard shack, and getting paid in ramen.
I really hope some places make some changes soon before it's totally insane. Summit seems to have lost it's damn mind.
Are you suggesting you shouldn't where nike basketball shoes while making snow. I think dude drives a good point of style over errrthang. Snow performance 2/10, cold performnce 3/10, tread pattern, -2/10, overall impression 11/10.
Because at nike, it's not about the job you do, it's all about how you look while doing it.
theabortionatorAre you suggesting you shouldn't where nike basketball shoes while making snow. I think dude drives a good point of style over errrthang. Snow performance 2/10, cold performnce 3/10, tread pattern, -2/10, overall impression 11/10.
Because at nike, it's not about the job you do, it's all about how you look while doing it.
That's the truth. OP needs to get some hype boots for snowmaking, like these
