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RIP Kingpin

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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1480 - Karma: 9,274
The Marker Kingpin has been pulled from the market for infringing on G3 patents, per Powder Mag:
http://www.powder.com/gear/g3-sues-marker-kingpin-binding/

**This thread was edited on Jun 28th 2017 at 9:58:18pm
Jun 28 2017 9:57PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8647 - Karma: 32,671
Yup saw this this morning....ordered shortly after.

Sad but that's business. Sucks that such a bomber binding will be gone....but now g3 owns the market again.
Jun 29 2017 2:13AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
I don't think it's gone gone, just stopped from currently being sold. I'm sure Marker and G3 will come to some kind of licencing agreement and the binding will be back on the market.
Jun 29 2017 10:09AM
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OldNJaded
Posts: 65 - Karma: 234
Meh, good riddance.

DayMaker Touring is where it's at!
Jun 29 2017 10:35AM
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profa_212
Posts: 8647 - Karma: 32,671
onenerdykidI don't think it's gone gone, just stopped from currently being sold. I'm sure Marker and G3 will come to some kind of licencing agreement and the binding will be back on the market.


That is likely....but it will still be gone for at least a season or two. I picked up a pair last night

OldNJadedMeh, good riddance.

DayMaker Touring is where it's at!


Lol no
Jun 29 2017 2:15PM
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Bamski
Posts: 814 - Karma: 79
Depending on the patent, it could be a (relatively) small change on Marker's end to get the kingpin back on the market - or it could be completely game changing and render their current heel mechanism useless. Something tells me the demand for tech AT bindings is strong enough that Marker isn't going to stay out of the fight for long.
Jun 29 2017 2:34PM
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tahoearmada20
Posts: 971 - Karma: 352
Im shocked this didnt happen sooner
Jun 29 2017 3:49PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
fuck those dorky engineers. they can't even ski.
Jun 29 2017 6:35PM
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wrichmond
Posts: 562 - Karma: 369
Any engineer mags around to comment on this?
Jun 29 2017 11:44PM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7605 - Karma: 20,104
OldNJadedDayMaker Touring is where it's at!


Only if you're doing short routes, sessioning a booter or slack country, or you really like weight, bulky bags and inconvenience.
Jun 30 2017 11:43AM
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OldNJaded
Posts: 65 - Karma: 234
skiP.E.I.Only if you're doing short routes, sessioning a booter or slack country, or you really like weight, bulky bags and inconvenience.


I've done plenty of varied tours on the DayMakers. Doubt yourselves all you want lol!
Y'all act like these things weigh 800 pounds.

I didn't have have to change my boots or my bindings. Was a plus in my opinion.

**This post was edited on Jun 30th 2017 at 11:54:05am
Jun 30 2017 11:52AM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7605 - Karma: 20,104
OldNJadedI've done plenty of varied tours on the DayMakers. Doubt yourselves all you want lol!
Y'all act like these things weigh 800 pounds.

I didn't have have to change my boots or my bindings. Was a plus in my opinion.

**This post was edited on Jun 30th 2017 at 11:54:05am


Don't get me wrong, I've used trekkers plenty and really appreciate them. I know the daymakers are probably an improvement on those too. However when it came time for new gear I figured I do enough touring to justify touring bindings (not even tech), and they work far better than the daymaker type system, while costing less than buying alpine bindings and daymakers. For the people I know who are touring every day doing avi control and forecasting, tech bindings make their job significantly easier.
Jun 30 2017 12:34PM
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patagonialuke
Posts: 1624 - Karma: 8,663
BamskiDepending on the patent, it could be a (relatively) small change on Marker's end to get the kingpin back on the market - or it could be completely game changing and render their current heel mechanism useless. Something tells me the demand for tech AT bindings is strong enough that Marker isn't going to stay out of the fight for long.


Yeah Marker put a ton of money into the Kingpin, so there's no way they're gonna just bail on it. My guess is they'll either settle the case or pay to license the patent (like some companies have done with Dynafit). The Powder article mentioned that the brake mechanism was a specific issue, and it seems like that would be a relatively easy thing to change. Not sure though, the whole patent/suit process is way above my head.
Jun 30 2017 3:50PM
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tiger_shart
Posts: 510 - Karma: 1,585
Crazy to see, however I like that this gives smaller companies like cast more room to sell their products. Also maybe now that people have seen the kingpin, companies like dynafit and G3 might push to create something similar? Personally wasn't a fan of the kingpin, that plastic heel piece seems sketchy as fuck.
Jul 1 2017 12:10PM
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patagonialuke
Posts: 1624 - Karma: 8,663
ShireRatCrazy to see, however I like that this gives smaller companies like cast more room to sell their products. Also maybe now that people have seen the kingpin, companies like dynafit and G3 might push to create something similar? Personally wasn't a fan of the kingpin, that plastic heel piece seems sketchy as fuck.


Are you saying you prefer traditional tech heels (I.e. Two metal pins) to basically an alpine heel? Or are you comparing it to a regular alpine binding?
Jul 1 2017 1:40PM
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tiger_shart
Posts: 510 - Karma: 1,585
patagonialukeAre you saying you prefer traditional tech heels (I.e. Two metal pins) to basically an alpine heel? Or are you comparing it to a regular alpine binding?


I am a huge fan of the cast system. To me it's the most efficient touring system with the fewest compromises. Touring with a pin tech toe makes all the difference compared to a frame binding. I think the future of touring bindings are those like the kingpin, tech toe with a full on alpine style heel. Where I think marker fucked up, and this is where marker always fucks up, was making it a plastic piece of shit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the kingpin is a tech toe, with a squire heelpiece. It's a sick concept with poor execution.
Jul 1 2017 2:12PM
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patagonialuke
Posts: 1624 - Karma: 8,663
ShireRatI am a huge fan of the cast system. To me it's the most efficient touring system with the fewest compromises. Touring with a pin tech toe makes all the difference compared to a frame binding. I think the future of touring bindings are those like the kingpin, tech toe with a full on alpine style heel. Where I think marker fucked up, and this is where marker always fucks up, was making it a plastic piece of shit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the kingpin is a tech toe, with a squire heelpiece. It's a sick concept with poor execution.


Gotcha, while I'm a fan of metal bindings for my alpine setup, I think it makes sense for Marker to use a plastic heel on their touring binding due to weight savings. But yeah, it looks like we'll be seeing more similar designs, with the Tecton now and the solly/atomic binding hopefully in the near future
Jul 1 2017 2:44PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8647 - Karma: 32,671
ShireRatI am a huge fan of the cast system. To me it's the most efficient touring system with the fewest compromises. Touring with a pin tech toe makes all the difference compared to a frame binding. I think the future of touring bindings are those like the kingpin, tech toe with a full on alpine style heel. Where I think marker fucked up, and this is where marker always fucks up, was making it a plastic piece of shit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the kingpin is a tech toe, with a squire heelpiece. It's a sick concept with poor execution.


It makes perfect sense to me. You don't want a lunkin hunk of metal on a tech binding. Defeats the purpose of a lightweight set up. Also I haven't heard of too many issues with the heel on the kingpin...maybe there are some I haven't heard. I think they did a great job because like you said....those who actually need the burlyness of a metal alpine binding will go with cast. But for the people that want a more trustworthy tech binding...kingpin is a good choice
Jul 1 2017 3:21PM
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tiger_shart
Posts: 510 - Karma: 1,585
Profahoben_212It makes perfect sense to me. You don't want a lunkin hunk of metal on a tech binding. Defeats the purpose of a lightweight set up. Also I haven't heard of too many issues with the heel on the kingpin...maybe there are some I haven't heard. I think they did a great job because like you said....those who actually need the burlyness of a metal alpine binding will go with cast. But for the people that want a more trustworthy tech binding...kingpin is a good choice


I understand the point of shaving weight, however the last thing I want to be dealing with in the backcountry is a busted binding. The kingpin is so new that I doubt it's really been put to any sort of long term durability test, which is why I'm apprehensive to trust it. To me the kingpin is markers way of introducing tech touring to the masses, much like the duke did with frame bindings 10 years ago. With that said, the duke was more about good marketing than it was performance. With the kingpin gone from the market for at least the next few seasons I'm excited to see what markers competitors come up with to fill the void it leaves. I'm sure both amer (Salomon, atomic) and dynafit, can create much more durable and better performing options than what marker has coughed up.
Jul 1 2017 4:42PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8647 - Karma: 32,671
ShireRatI understand the point of shaving weight, however the last thing I want to be dealing with in the backcountry is a busted binding. The kingpin is so new that I doubt it's really been put to any sort of long term durability test, which is why I'm apprehensive to trust it. To me the kingpin is markers way of introducing tech touring to the masses, much like the duke did with frame bindings 10 years ago. With that said, the duke was more about good marketing than it was performance. With the kingpin gone from the market for at least the next few seasons I'm excited to see what markers competitors come up with to fill the void it leaves. I'm sure both amer (Salomon, atomic) and dynafit, can create much more durable and better performing options than what marker has coughed up.


Just curious....have you ever used the kingpin? They have really great reviews around the board...include blister loving them....if I remember correctly he had some of the same worries of you.

They are much better than 2 pins in your heel....no doubt about it. Like you said, this could end up being like a duke, where marker comes out with it and then salomon and atomic improve upon it, but at the same time this design was revolutionary and gets rid of the biggest complaint in the tech world....the sketchy pin heel. Along with this, even though it was one season on them....they had no major issues or recalls on them (looking at you g3).

I get that they aren't your cup of tea....stay with the cast system...its a good system if it works for you....but marker spent a shit load of money on them. They didn't just cough them up. Honestly it's the only piece of marker gear I have or have wanted to buy in 10 years.

Meh...just not your cup of tea my man
Jul 1 2017 5:28PM
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tiger_shart
Posts: 510 - Karma: 1,585
Profahoben_212Just curious....have you ever used the kingpin? They have really great reviews around the board...include blister loving them....if I remember correctly he had some of the same worries of you.

They are much better than 2 pins in your heel....no doubt about it. Like you said, this could end up being like a duke, where marker comes out with it and then salomon and atomic improve upon it, but at the same time this design was revolutionary and gets rid of the biggest complaint in the tech world....the sketchy pin heel. Along with this, even though it was one season on them....they had no major issues or recalls on them (looking at you g3).

I get that they aren't your cup of tea....stay with the cast system...its a good system if it works for you....but marker spent a shit load of money on them. They didn't just cough them up. Honestly it's the only piece of marker gear I have or have wanted to buy in 10 years.

Meh...just not your cup of tea my man


I have not ridden it yet, I've read the reviews and talked with numerous people who have been riding them throughout the season. Everyone so far says they ski great, i even saw a couple kids riding park on them at timberline and they had positive reviews. However given markers track record, Im personally gonna give them another season or two before my skepticism fades. Any new binding is going to cost a shit ton of money to produce, especially one that complies to both tech and din standards. Im happy that marker has the balls to bring something new to the market, however I don't think they are the best at making a truly trustworthy product.
Jul 1 2017 6:13PM
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blazeonyia
Posts: 307 - Karma: 1,067
Just wanted to post and ask if there are any updates on the kingpin? I have two pairs and love them! As far as the straight touring binding vs alpine heel and tech toe piece there isn't too much of a weight difference. I have put these through the ringer and never had a problem...until the heel piece went flying off skiing down a green run. Although I believe in the alpine tech combo concept for touring, this is marker we are talking about. Found that there are two very thin pieces of plastic holding the heel piece to the metal runner. It makes the binding adjustable. It also makes the heel flimsy and prone to breaking. Marker's warranty dept. sent a replacement. It was used big time though they pulled all their inventory a week later so that may have had something to do with it.

Just curious on the future of this concept. Take the two flip down components that adjust heel height and put them on an FKS. Problem solved. Prob a little more to it than that but you get the idea. Any info on this is greatly appreciated. I'll still ski the kingpin even with the flimsy heel.
Aug 29 2017 6:25PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
blazeonyiaMarker's warranty dept. sent a replacement. It was used big time though they pulled all their inventory a week later so that may have had something to do with it.

Just curious on the future of this concept.


Marker is currently being sued by G3 for patent infringement- that's what Marker pulled all of their inventory, not the heel breakage.

You won't be seeing the Kingpin any time this year because of the lawsuit. Marker will have to either pay G3 a licensing fee or redesign the Kingpin to circumnavigate G3's patents. The former will probably take a year to arrive at, the latter probably 2.
Aug 30 2017 2:42AM
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patagonialuke
Posts: 1624 - Karma: 8,663
onenerdykidMarker is currently being sued by G3 for patent infringement- that's what Marker pulled all of their inventory, not the heel breakage.

You won't be seeing the Kingpin any time this year because of the lawsuit. Marker will have to either pay G3 a licensing fee or redesign the Kingpin to circumnavigate G3's patents. The former will probably take a year to arrive at, the latter probably 2.

And this is why I'm getting more and more eager for the Solly/Atomic announcement at SIA this year...
Aug 30 2017 9:21AM
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wrichmond
Posts: 562 - Karma: 369
patagonialukeAnd this is why I'm getting more and more eager for the Solly/Atomic announcement at SIA this year...

Solly is joining the tech binding party this year?
Aug 30 2017 11:43PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
wrichmondSolly is joining the tech binding party this year?


We've had a "purist" tech binding for a couple of years now in Euroland, and this year it will come to North America with a brake. What Luke is referring to is something a little different ;)
Aug 31 2017 2:23AM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
onenerdykidWe've had a "purist" tech binding for a couple of years now in Euroland, and this year it will come to North America with a brake. What Luke is referring to is something a little different ;)

Is there a less purist, more burly pin binding in the pipeline at atomic/salomon?
Aug 31 2017 3:41PM
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N41v131355
Posts: 209 - Karma: 341
onenerdykidWe've had a "purist" tech binding for a couple of years now in Euroland, and this year it will come to North America with a brake. What Luke is referring to is something a little different ;)


What is the approximate time for release of the thing he is referring to? I've seen some photos of it, looks really cool
Sep 1 2017 10:40AM
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Kretzschmar
Posts: 6691 - Karma: 97,873
According to Blister, it's back




**This post was edited on Oct 16th 2017 at 4:08:44pm
Oct 16 2017 4:07PM
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