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Salomon Guardian Issue That Led to a Season Ender

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Roy
Posts: 1982 - Karma: 1,240
Question I Need Help With:

Can you properly set up the Guardians to mostly eliminate pre-release while still having them release properly to prevent injury? If so how?

(super excited for the Cast system so I can take the pivots to the BC, I really only got the Guardians cuz I was doing longer stuff and had to get off the trekkers)

Injury:

Back in December, I was skiing and hit a tree stump under the snow. I was on my touring set up, a pair of Rossi Squads 180cm with Salomon Guardian Bindings with my dins set to 11 and I was 205 lbs at the time (and 5'10"). The binding did not release, my ski flexed hard and I felt my Achilles rip apart just before the binding blew into touring mode. I was skiing medium slow, probably around 30 km/h. I got to spent my New Years eve getting my leg stitched back together and missed this epic winter we had (at least I already had 21 days in the bag and a September trip to Argentia in the bag). I should also mention I had a similar incident the season before where my tip clipped a tree at higher speeds, my Rossi FKS's released properly. Although I broke the ski in half I was fine.

Why They Seem to Be A Problem Binding:

This was my first season on them and when things started filling in in December, I finally got into some more aggressive riding. The first issue I had is that the heels would blow when I got more forward on my skis in pillow lines. Each time I checked them and they looked adjusted properly. I had actually meant to increase the din the day of the incident, but it slipped my mind. Now that I'm more mobile, I wanted to get back to some skinning so I can be ready for the extended season we are going to have (I should get full clearance to ski mid June). The first thing I did was trying and step out of my binding with my good leg the din set to 11 (I am now 195lbs thanks rehab!) and I can not physically do it. With as quick of speed possible I'm putting in full force and I feel like the ski is about to break.

Thanks!
May 7 2017 4:27PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
Sounds like the forward pressure could be screwed up. I'd take them to a shop.. always nice to have people actually look and see what is going on.
May 7 2017 5:18PM
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skierman
Posts: 8064 - Karma: 4,801
"Can you properly set up the Guardians to mostly eliminate pre-release while still having them release properly to prevent injury? If so how? "

By not adjusting the release settings yourself because you sound like a fucking idiot. Binding techs exist for a reason.
May 7 2017 6:08PM
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Cole9
Posts: 339 - Karma: 741
skierman"Can you properly set up the Guardians to mostly eliminate pre-release while still having them release properly to prevent injury? If so how? "

By not adjusting the release settings yourself because you sound like a fucking idiot. Binding techs exist for a reason.

This happened to me 2 years ago and broke my leg same exact scenario with same bindings went to a binding tech and he set my din I think it could be a problem or a defect
May 7 2017 7:48PM
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Roy
Posts: 1982 - Karma: 1,240
skierman"Can you properly set up the Guardians to mostly eliminate pre-release while still having them release properly to prevent injury? If so how? "

By not adjusting the release settings yourself because you sound like a fucking idiot. Binding techs exist for a reason.


Haha you can adjust binding if you know how. I did not adjust any settings and when I inspected them they were still set up how the shop set them (manufactures recommendations). Which leads to 2 options. Either 1 they are poorly designed piece of shit bindings and I need to toss them which I hope is not the case. Or option 2 maybe you can play with them to get them working properly.
May 7 2017 7:49PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I am lighter than you, but taller with big-ish feet, and the skis I have Guardians on are the ones I ski pretty fast on. Therefore mine are also at 11 and I've never had issues with them. What you are describing sounds like A) forward pressure set improperly or B) you just aren't riding as hard as you think you are. I dropped my FKS to 9 a few years ago because I simply wasn't skiing that ski very hard (tree line kind of setup). A scary moment with a late release tweaked my knee to the breaking point and I felt lucky to step away with nothing but soreness.

I'm not saying that's definitely the answer, but I think it's good to be honest with yourself sometimes and dial it back if you aren't crushing as hard as you thought.
May 7 2017 9:31PM
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HuckNorris44
Posts: 1025 - Karma: 2,392
Roythey are poorly designed piece of shit bindings and I need to toss them


DING DING DING

Worst Touring Binding on the market
May 8 2017 4:01AM
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profa_212
Posts: 8638 - Karma: 32,570
Dustin.I am lighter than you, but taller with big-ish feet, and the skis I have Guardians on are the ones I ski pretty fast on. Therefore mine are also at 11 and I've never had issues with them. What you are describing sounds like A) forward pressure set improperly or B) you just aren't riding as hard as you think you are. I dropped my FKS to 9 a few years ago because I simply wasn't skiing that ski very hard (tree line kind of setup). A scary moment with a late release tweaked my knee to the breaking point and I felt lucky to step away with nothing but soreness.

I'm not saying that's definitely the answer, but I think it's good to be honest with yourself sometimes and dial it back if you aren't crushing as hard as you thought.


I would imagine these are the cases....go get the forward pressure checked. That is the go to thing with pre-releasing. Never had this problem with guardians...they are actually one of the binding that feel sturdiest to me as far as frame goes.
May 8 2017 11:10AM
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mehregan15
Posts: 779 - Karma: 741
GnarcoDING DING DING

Worst Touring Binding on the market


agreed, they are hands down the most horrible bindings out there. Bad for touring and absolutely horrendous for in-bounds skiing. from the stack height to the weight to the difficulty of use, they are just terrible.
May 8 2017 11:36AM
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VailValleySkier
Posts: 224 - Karma: 515
GnarcoDING DING DING

Worst Touring Binding on the market


mehregan15agreed, they are hands down the most horrible bindings out there. Bad for touring and absolutely horrendous for in-bounds skiing. from the stack height to the weight to the difficulty of use, they are just terrible.


What these two said, I have the guardians and have had them either pre-release for absolute no reason or had them not come off when they should of. No consistency for either, just completely random. Luckily it never resulted in injury for me, but I've decided to never use them again just to be safe. Get yourself a pin setup and ditch your frames.
May 8 2017 12:45PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8638 - Karma: 32,570
mehregan15agreed, they are hands down the most horrible bindings out there. Bad for touring and absolutely horrendous for in-bounds skiing. from the stack height to the weight to the difficulty of use, they are just terrible.


Guardians have the lowest stack height of all the frame bindings if I'm not mistaken.

Also they are debatably the best for the way down....for the way up they kinda suck though.

Frames are loosing the race to tech...tech is increasingly getting better while frame has stayed pretty much the same for a long long time. Frames are gonna get weeded out here soon I feel like. Tech are getting burlier and more reliable...soon there won't be much of a need for frame
May 8 2017 1:59PM
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mehregan15
Posts: 779 - Karma: 741
Profahoben_212Guardians have the lowest stack height of all the frame bindings if I'm not mistaken.

Also they are debatably the best for the way down....for the way up they kinda suck though.

Frames are loosing the race to tech...tech is increasingly getting better while frame has stayed pretty much the same for a long long time. Frames are gonna get weeded out here soon I feel like. Tech are getting burlier and more reliable...soon there won't be much of a need for frame


saying they have the lowest stack height of all frame bindings is like saying they are the best of the worst... even if they are better than Dukes or other options, they are still in "the worst" category.

they are also far from the best on the way down. using a frame binding ruins the flex of the ski. also, see above regarding stack height, which is not good for the way down.
May 8 2017 2:52PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8638 - Karma: 32,570
That's why I said in terms of frame bindings. Not every binding. Thank you for saying what I said again
May 8 2017 2:54PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
mehregan15saying they have the lowest stack height of all frame bindings is like saying they are the best of the worst... even if they are better than Dukes or other options, they are still in "the worst" category.

they are also far from the best on the way down. using a frame binding ruins the flex of the ski. also, see above regarding stack height, which is not good for the way down.


Like profahoben said, best in terms of FRAME binders.

Lowest stack heigh, and they actually allow the ski to flex more naturally than any other frame binder. Obviously a STH2, FKS/Pivot, or attack is gonna be better than any other binding on the way down. No shit. That's like saying a kingpin is better on the way up than a STH2. No shit.

However, if I got a frame binder, I'm not sure which one I would actually get. All of them have their pros and cons regarding frame bindings.


Tech binders and the new CAST is the future!
May 8 2017 3:17PM
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VailValleySkier
Posts: 224 - Karma: 515
.lenconLike profahoben said, best in terms of FRAME binders.

Lowest stack heigh, and they actually allow the ski to flex more naturally than any other frame binder. Obviously a STH2, FKS/Pivot, or attack is gonna be better than any other binding on the way down. No shit. That's like saying a kingpin is better on the way up than a STH2. No shit.

However, if I got a frame binder, I'm not sure which one I would actually get. All of them have their pros and cons regarding frame bindings.


Tech binders and the new CAST is the future!


I feel like CAST has been in the preorder stage forever lol
May 8 2017 5:52PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
GnarcoDING DING DING

Worst Touring Binding on the market


It's not a touring binding. It's an awesome downhill binding that also tours.
May 8 2017 9:08PM
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HuckNorris44
Posts: 1025 - Karma: 2,392
Dustin.It's an awesome downhill binding that also tours.


Cracks Wack. Shouldn't smokev that shit.
It's a horrible downhill, uphill, sidehill, overall piece of shit.

Before pins, I had a pair of adrenalines. Head and shoulders above any Guardian.
May 9 2017 3:34PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7408 - Karma: 11,040
VailValleySkierI feel like CAST has been in the preorder stage forever lol


CAST is now on version 2.0. They've been selling 1.0 for 4 or even 5 years now....
May 9 2017 4:55PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 8910 - Karma: 57,399
.lenconHowever, if I got a frame binder, I'm not sure which one I would actually get. All of them have their pros and cons regarding frame bindings.


Tech binders and the new CAST is the future!


the CAST system looks amazing but am i the only one that can't really imagine wanting to switch that shit out at the top of each run, especially in a hairy zone/climate?



also for what it's worth when i was choosing from the frame bindings, i went with the adrenalin and was very very happy with them, my only guess as to why they dont get talked about as much as the guardians and markers is less advertising? idk
May 9 2017 6:02PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
SofaKingSickthe CAST system looks amazing but am i the only one that can't really imagine wanting to switch that shit out at the top of each run, especially in a hairy zone/climate?



also for what it's worth when i was choosing from the frame bindings, i went with the adrenalin and was very very happy with them, my only guess as to why they dont get talked about as much as the guardians and markers is less advertising? idk


I mean, it wouldn't bother me to take them off. No different to putting skins on and off and changing walk to ski mode in my eyes. It bothers some people, and if it does.. cool. Don't buy them. I am however stoked for them along with many others.
May 9 2017 6:04PM
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VailValleySkier
Posts: 224 - Karma: 515
.MASSHOLE.CAST is now on version 2.0. They've been selling 1.0 for 4 or even 5 years now....


Are they out of stock? I just haven't seen any for sale anywhere. Their website only gives me the option to preorder.
May 9 2017 7:05PM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
.lenconLike profahoben said, best in terms of FRAME binders.

Lowest stack heigh, and they actually allow the ski to flex more naturally than any other frame binder. Obviously a STH2, FKS/Pivot, or attack is gonna be better than any other binding on the way down. No shit. That's like saying a kingpin is better on the way up than a STH2. No shit.

However, if I got a frame binder, I'm not sure which one I would actually get. All of them have their pros and cons regarding frame bindings.


Tech binders and the new CAST is the future!


you do realize them tech binders have been around a long while
as a binder tech for a couple decades now there isn't any binders that some poor craftsmen hasn't blamed for his tool injury including the dildos
so i guess the tools blaming the poor craftsmen that designed their binding they chose to use aint gonna stop
gear gabber ratchet
May 9 2017 7:31PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
SFBv420.0you do realize them tech binders have been around a long while
as a binder tech for a couple decades now there isn't any binders that some poor craftsmen hasn't blamed for his tool injury including the dildos
so i guess the tools blaming the poor craftsmen that designed their binding they chose to use aint gonna stop
gear gabber ratchet


Yeah I know they've been making them for a while, just cool to see them out on the market now.
May 9 2017 8:04PM
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
Also consider giray dadali's super beefy improved take on the alpine Trekker concept. Haven't gotten to mess with a pair yet, but they seem like they could be a really sick option. Heavyish, but you don't have to lift a frame with your boot on each step and you don't have a frame while your skiing down. And they seem pretty bomber and have a very intriguing walk mechanism. CAST is probably better on the way up, but on the supertrekkers or whatever they're called, at least you don't have to switch the toepieces out every run.
May 13 2017 6:11PM
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skierman
Posts: 8064 - Karma: 4,801
.lenconYeah I know they've been making them for a while


Haha, you didn't know that, you fucking idiot.
May 13 2017 6:12PM
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