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integralmgmtThat's awesome for Gus, definitely a pioneer on and off the hill. I'm always so impressed by the insane level of precision he's able to display on anything from rails to jumps and the superpipe.
Despite almost all of us on NS supporting Gus, I think it's really important that we protect the opinions of both sides. I know where I stand and where I expect my friends to stand, but that doesn't mean my opinion is the only valid one. I often worry that we (most noticeable liberals) are really quick to shoot down other's views as unacceptable, when that's not true. Everyone is honestly entitled to believe whatever they want; I don't get to restrict that right, but I am responsible for forming my own views and holding myself accountable to them.
For real though, congrats Gus. So happy for you. Keep killing it!
this PC abomination somehow bugs me more than outward displays of intolerance, bigotry, homophobia, etc. At least I can respect someone that just says whatever they're thinking and feeling, regardless of how it will be perceived. Even if what they're saying is completely idiotic, they wear it on their sleeves.
Your post in my eyes is just incredibly misguided.
This isn't an issue where it's like talking about ways to improve the economy where there are divergent ideas about how/why economic systems work each with some data and logic backing up each stance and people passionately arguing why their ideology is superior while also recognizing the value in the other approach.
There really just isn't a good argument to be made for responding to this news negatively. Even the dismissive "why is this even news?" comments completely miss the point and the larger context. Of course it isn't newsworthy that some 24 year old man has come out as gay. What is newsworthy is how rare it is within action sports (and sports as a whole) for someone to speak honestly about their homosexuality. Gus's subjective experiences as a gay athlete and the accompanying struggles make this news.
He plainly said that his intention with coming out publicly was to hopefully prevent future gay athletes from wrestling with the fear of being found out or feeling utterly alone and like a freak. His motives are not to promote himself. That's commendable in my eyes.
Gus didn't "turn" gay because of a "media agenda pushing homosexuality". Likewise, no one's kids are going to be turned gay by Gus Kenworthy coming out as gay. The fear mongering and the chorus of people paranoid about the "gay agenda" is a fucking joke. Frankly, if your sexuality is so tenuous that an ESPN interview drives you to want to fuck the same sex....well, I don't know what to tell you.
So, either be happy that a member of our community is coming to peace and terms with himself and his identity and could possibly help other troubled young men and women to have the courage to live life as they are without fear, or simply just shrug your shoulders and move on. There just isn't a valid "other opinion" or "the other side of the coin" like your suggesting. There's one side exercising compassion, empathy and pride in an individual within our community being himself, and then there's another side where people are being petty, bigoted, and paranoid. They aren't on equal footing.
No. Not at all. That isn't how this works. Gus isn't trying to get attention for himself, the attention is being driven towards the stimga of being gay. Stories like this will continue the to go around and get a lot of media attention until being gay is as easy as being straight. Gus is the first big name in action sports to come out which is a HUGE deal, it's definitely not a publicity scheme. He just wants to lead people into a better mindset.
omg gus is gay! who could of saw this coming?!?!?!?!?!?!? Gus is a bro, regardless of his sexual orientation. Idk why every time someone famous comes out as gay it's hit news. It's 2015 dude it's not even that big of a deal.
Good for Gus, he also gained 45k followers on insta in one day, thats gotta be looked at as some sort of a positive response from the public outside of the ski industry. I know it may seem shallow but I for one am blown away by those numbers.
mmccarthy14omg gus is gay! who could of saw this coming?!?!?!?!?!?!? Gus is a bro, regardless of his sexual orientation. Idk why every time someone famous comes out as gay it's hit news. It's 2015 dude it's not even that big of a deal.
yeah it's 2015!! It's no big deal!!! That's why dozens and dozens of pro athletes, especially within the action sports community, have already come out!!! Oh wait.....
So, maybe it is a big deal that the action sports community doesn't foster an environment where people feel comfortable with being themselves.
Since fucking social media became a thing, it's like people think there's this hyper accelerated reality. I'm glad it's not a big deal to you, but that doesn't mean it isn't to a huge portion of the population. In 2001, 57% of the population said that they oppose gay marriage. There's been a lot of movement, but it's naive to think that we have arrived in some kind of "post sexuality" era. Things are getting better and people are getting more tolerant of others in general I think, but there's a lot of progress yet to come.
It's just not at all productive to take this stance. I'm not telling you you have to be an activist or some shit, but try putting yourself in someone else's shoes. You don't have skin in the game, or a horse in the race, so it's easy for it to be no big deal to you. Well, try and imagine if you or someone you were really close to was impacted by this shit deeply.
Maybe in another generation this will truly be a total non news event, but today, in this society, it is news. It's at least as much news as 90% of the drivel that people readily consume on a daily basis as "news".
NoSkillsCrewI understand why it might appear that way over social media. But being queer and having lived a very different experience within the ski community, one similar to Gus's, I just don't agree. It is great to see the support for Gus, but unless I see something change when I'm in the parks and I stop hearing people call things gay and other people f**s I will continue to feel unwelcome in the ski community. On NS I still see a fair amount of casual homophobia. In the parks here in Utah I hear allot of it. At my work at ski resorts I hear allot of it and never felt comfortable being openly queer in those spaces. It's great that Gus is getting support on social media but unless people change their language and actions on the ground I'm going to still feel unsafe and unwelcome in this community.
I feel the need to say I have a group of very understanding and supportive friends in the Utah ski scene who are very welcoming of me and could give two shits about my sexual orientation. But that doesn't change how the rest of the community has made me feel. I'm optimistic that things will get better, but that doesn't change how it is currently.
There's a difference between hearing people say "oh that's gay" and feeling "unsafe"...
SkiSurveyThere's a difference between hearing people say "oh that's gay" and feeling "unsafe"...
How would you know? You're not gay, so you clearly don't have the personal experience of feeling the negativity of that word. Live a little in someone else's shoes, and by that I mean trust what people of different perspectives have to say. You've no way to really predict how you'd react if you were in their situation so you can't form a conclusion based on that.
gavinrudyHow would you know? You're not gay, so you clearly don't have the personal experience of feeling the negativity of that word. Live a little in someone else's shoes, and by that I mean trust what people of different perspectives have to say. You've no way to really predict how you'd react if you were in their situation so you can't form a conclusion based on that.
Yeah, I'm not gay so I wouldn't know, but i'm just saying that the majority of people around him who use the word "gay", as in "haha yeah saga is getting pretty gay lately" are are not endangering his safety, which is the way he made it seem in his post. I don't agree with using the word "gay" in that way at all nor do I use it but I was just saying that "unsafe" might not the right word to describe that situation.
SkiSurveyYeah, I'm not gay so I wouldn't know, but i'm just saying that the majority of people around him who use the word "gay", as in "haha yeah saga is getting pretty gay lately" are are not endangering his safety, which is the way he made it seem in his post. I don't agree with using the word "gay" in that way at all nor do I use it but I was just saying that "unsafe" might not the right word to describe that situation.
Thanks for the respectable response. Perhaps you're right about using the word "unsafe", maybe "uncomfortable" or "scared" is better. From the perspective of a gay person, if all of their friends are unaware of their sexual preference and choose to associate the word "gay" with negative things, then it follows to imply that those friends thing negatively towards "gayness" itself. EVEN if their intentions do not mean so, or they have no problem with gays, their choice to use words like "gay" creates negativity. I'd imagine that if I were in the situation of a gay person, surrounded by people calling bad things "gay", I'd be really uncomfortable and afraid for how they would think of me if they knew I was gay. And perhaps that can be extrapolated to feeling unsafe...
I grew up in a family where this stuff was really frowned upon. Not gonna lie, for a long time I was super ignorant and was super hateful towards things like this. Finally moved away from home, lived a little, met some incredible people who offered a new perspective and realized how fucking stupid and close-minded I was/we were.
Anyways, reading this today made me so damn happy. I'm fucking stoked that people are able to be who they are openly. Idk about other people, but I was pleasantly surprised at how big of a positive response he got and I hope that gives everyone in a similar situation at least a little bit of hope/ inspiration (:
SkiSurveyYeah, I'm not gay so I wouldn't know, but i'm just saying that the majority of people around him who use the word "gay", as in "haha yeah saga is getting pretty gay lately" are are not endangering his safety, which is the way he made it seem in his post. I don't agree with using the word "gay" in that way at all nor do I use it but I was just saying that "unsafe" might not the right word to describe that situation.
How the fuck would you know? Ever been beat up just because of who you attracted to? Ever been called a faggot to you face while someone was doing so? Thats my fucking life and experience. There is violence in language and it's not your place to say otherwise.
NoSkillsCrewHow the fuck would you know? Ever been beat up just because of who you attracted to? Ever been called a faggot to you face while someone was doing so? Thats my fucking life and experience. There is violence in language and it's not your place to say otherwise.
I'm sorry if that seems harsh. But you need to realize that you don't get to decide what makes other people feel threatened. And if a person constantly feels threatened that makes them feel unsafe. I speak from experience.
NoSkillsCrewHow the fuck would you know? Ever been beat up just because of who you attracted to? Ever been called a faggot to you face while someone was doing so? Thats my fucking life and experience. There is violence in language and it's not your place to say otherwise.
I literally said "I'm not gay so I wouldn't know" in my post...but okay. Yeah I 100% agree with you that there is way too much use of gay being thrown around in everyday language, and I'm sure that it's really tough being gay around all that. I respect you for going through that. I was just saying that the majority of people I know who simply use the word gay to mean anything negative aren't endangering the welfare of gay people, they're just saying it because its something they say. I'm talking about kids who have no problem with gay people, but they just use the word because other people do. That's wrong and need to be changed, but saying that anyone who uses the word "gay" is a danger to you is a little much. And I can say whatever I want, thanks though
BWalmerI disagree. I think I'm the action sports community as a whole, you'd be correct. But, when we look at this thread, Gus's Instagram, and other outlets that I'm sure will follow -- posts from the skiing community as a whole -- we notice that most people are open to him and are congratulating him. I think the freeskiing community might be one of the more open communities in action sports. I mean his post has almost 9,000 likes and over 1,000 comments (mostly, if not all, positive). That's a better reflection of the freeski community than the XGames Instagram posts.
I'm glad that Gus can finally live his life more openly and hopefully be even happier. He's a great guy, and he deserves a lot of respect as a skier and as a person.
I was going to address this point differently and just point out I don't think anybody in the park wold ever send somebody away for being gay. I mean I don't even see why that would come up on the mountain or be an issue while skiing.
SkiSurveyI literally said "I'm not gay so I wouldn't know" in my post...but okay. Yeah I 100% agree with you that there is way too much use of gay being thrown around in everyday language, and I'm sure that it's really tough being gay around all that. I respect you for going through that. I was just saying that the majority of people I know who simply use the word gay to mean anything negative aren't endangering the welfare of gay people, they're just saying it because its something they say. I'm talking about kids who have no problem with gay people, but they just use the word because other people do. That's wrong and need to be changed, but saying that anyone who uses the word "gay" is a danger to you is a little much. And I can say whatever I want, thanks though
You're still missing the point completely. The fact is that the use of certain words, regardless of how someone "means" it, can have an extremely strong negative impact on someone who falls under the category targeted. On top of that, when people use the word gay or fag or whatever, it is never ever in a positive way. So try to understand that it doesn't matter if you don't think it should make him feel unsafe, the fact is that it does. So don't use it, simple as that.
"the thought of being found out kept me up at night. I constantly felt anxious, depressed and even suicidal. Looking back, it's crazy to see how far I've come. For most of my life I've dreaded the day that people would find out I was gay. Now, I couldn't be more excited to tell you all the truth."
I think it's actually important to hide one's homosexuality if you feel physically threatened or at risk for revealing your sexual disposition: and there are some cultures where it's capital crime.
Not exactly a "gay" (ie happy) state-of-mind to be in.
For him, it's interesting that the anxiety wasn't about not knowing whether or not you were camp, it was about not being able to openly express your feelings and personality, with the stakes raised due to the nature of action sports, and being rejected for being different and potentially risking sponsorship and also a degree of social isolation.
But kids have been using the term 'gay' and 'fag' to describe things and people they don't like for a long time. It's not new.
The truth comes out eventually, so maybe it's better to have some control in the how/when. Seems to be have timed well.
In his early days, Prince was told he could act and wear whatever he wanted because of the quality of the music. It made his style irrelevant, almost valuable. If Kenworthy is winning and performing well, no one's going to care, and for some maybe even look at homosexuality positively.
I suppose the next logical step after slaying contests, is for Kenworthy to go Heartcarving, and to maximize gaiety on two planks (or one.. on the proposed Gayton snowboard.) And that's coming from someone with possibly the lowest karma/post on NS...... HAHAHA.
john18061806No. Not at all. That isn't how this works. Gus isn't trying to get attention for himself, the attention is being driven towards the stimga of being gay. Stories like this will continue the to go around and get a lot of media attention until being gay is as easy as being straight. Gus is the first big name in action sports to come out which is a HUGE deal, it's definitely not a publicity scheme. He just wants to lead people into a better mindset.
He's not trying to get more attention, but ESPN is.
mmccarthy14It's 2015 dude it's not even that big of a deal.
Yeah, but like he said in his article... being accepted from coming out of a small town like that? I mean, that's not the easiest, and it still makes many people out there lose sleep and become depressed over the issue.
The fact that it IS 2015 and this kind of thing is STILL a big deal in some places is what makes these kinda parties almost necessary.
It's not like it's a publicity stunt like many people still see this sorta thing as... it's actually a really courageous thing - especially if you didn't grow up in a liberal bastion like San Francisco or Amsterdam or whatever. If you come from Small Mountain Town, Rocky Mountain Redstate, then you're going to probably have a frightened upbringing.
Remember. It's not even been 20 years since Matthew Shepard - that happened in freaking Ft. Collins, CO - a place where Lorax, Troy, and my roomie have all gone to school. All three are big skiers. Gay marriage JUST FINALLY got national court approval. things have come a long way, but we will have years before full acceptance.
Case/Point? Some idiot called me a "faggot vegon fairy" on instagram yesterday. Obviously he's an idiot due to misspelling vegan, but the fact that this shit still happens is insane. I have a dipshit coworker who's highly homophobic, and I work in a city where they have rainbow crosswalks directing people towards the Gay district... The bullshit is everywhere still, and the more these stories are seen as commonplace, the better it will be. Hopefully one day, all the Kim Davis shitpiles will die off and people can just be gay and nobody will bat an eye about it.
I'm stoked for Gus. He's not hiding anymore behind anything. Everyone knows, and everyone who matters is happy for him, ultimately. It's great, and I hope that more closeted folk on here and elsewhere will feel comfortable enough to do the same.
integralmgmtDespite almost all of us on NS supporting Gus, I think it's really important that we protect the opinions of both sides. I know where I stand and where I expect my friends to stand, but that doesn't mean my opinion is the only valid one. I often worry that we (most noticeable liberals) are really quick to shoot down other's views as unacceptable, when that's not true. Everyone is honestly entitled to believe whatever they want; I don't get to restrict that right, but I am responsible for forming my own views and holding myself accountable to them.
What's the other opinion here? That homosexuality is an abomination? that they shouldn't marry? That they need to find Jesus or some crap? How could I respect an opinion like that? I'm not going to find intolerant views like that as acceptable. People can believe whatever they want, sure, but I have the right to say those views are downright fecal matter... It's not a matter of liberal or conservative. It's a matter of being accepting of who someone is or not...
50KalBeing gay isn't dangerous.
Oh, no... it hasn't lead to however many suicides over the years or anything... and it's not like gays can't just travel to any country they want... It's not like if they are in the Peace Corps and get sent to Uganda they'll be in serious harms way or anything... nope.
Being Gay might not be dangerous if you live in Burlington, Boulder, or Boston... but if you go to the boondocks around Birmingham, AL? I don't know, but If that was me I'd probably leave the rainbows at home...
@LANTASKIIsn't being unable to respect, and not chastise a person's beliefs kind of the definition of Bigotry?
Then call me bigoted towards bigots? I'll wear that badge proudly if that's the case...
gnar_whalHe's not trying to get more attention, but ESPN is.
The fact that ESPN can get positive attention from an athlete coming out as gay in a positive and encouraging manner, is, in my eyes, fucking awesome.
Back to the Future day just happened yesterday. My question is - do you think that such a thing would even happen in 1985? much less to positive fanfare? I mean, back then, you had Ronald Reagan - the so called great communicator - flat out ignoring and not saying a word about the AIDS epidemic... you know, because it was apparently a gay disease and it was spread through unprotected sex. Condoms and gays: Furrowing neo-cons brows since the fall of Rome...
MinggI grew up in a family where this stuff was really frowned upon. Not gonna lie, for a long time I was super ignorant and was super hateful towards things like this. Finally moved away from home, lived a little, met some incredible people who offered a new perspective and realized how fucking stupid and close-minded I was/we were.
Anyways, reading this today made me so damn happy. I'm fucking stoked that people are able to be who they are openly. Idk about other people, but I was pleasantly surprised at how big of a positive response he got and I hope that gives everyone in a similar situation at least a little bit of hope/ inspiration (:
casualyeah it's 2015!! It's no big deal!!! That's why dozens and dozens of pro athletes, especially within the action sports community, have already come out!!! Oh wait.....
So, maybe it is a big deal that the action sports community doesn't foster an environment where people feel comfortable with being themselves.
Since fucking social media became a thing, it's like people think there's this hyper accelerated reality. I'm glad it's not a big deal to you, but that doesn't mean it isn't to a huge portion of the population. In 2001, 57% of the population said that they oppose gay marriage. There's been a lot of movement, but it's naive to think that we have arrived in some kind of "post sexuality" era. Things are getting better and people are getting more tolerant of others in general I think, but there's a lot of progress yet to come.
It's just not at all productive to take this stance. I'm not telling you you have to be an activist or some shit, but try putting yourself in someone else's shoes. You don't have skin in the game, or a horse in the race, so it's easy for it to be no big deal to you. Well, try and imagine if you or someone you were really close to was impacted by this shit deeply.
Maybe in another generation this will truly be a total non news event, but today, in this society, it is news. It's at least as much news as 90% of the drivel that people readily consume on a daily basis as "news".
Hah solid decade and a half old statistic! Even it was a recent stat, not all 57% would say this is a " huge deal".
And you should realize that you're playing into the hyperaccelerated reality of social media by forcing people to view things the same as you and judging them if they don't.
JibberinoYou're still missing the point completely. The fact is that the use of certain words, regardless of how someone "means" it, can have an extremely strong negative impact on someone who falls under the category targeted. On top of that, when people use the word gay or fag or whatever, it is never ever in a positive way. So try to understand that it doesn't matter if you don't think it should make him feel unsafe, the fact is that it does. So don't use it, simple as that.
Yeah but where do you draw the line, there words and most of the time to not being directed at the person. Having red hair after that South Park episode came out I was called a fire crotch ginger and had no soul on and off the mountain. Doesn't necessarily mean people don't accept me for having red hair. I mean saying something like that helmet looks gay, I really don't see it as oh no I'll never be accepted for who I am. We are getting to a fine line and society and I start to see it as a problem when people want to limit what other people's words are. At the end of the day I think anybody can say anything about anyone no matter where they are good or bad. Just my .02 cents please downvote for freedom of speech.
@LANTASKIIsn't being unable to respect, and not chastise a person's beliefs kind of the definition of Bigotry?
Thats like saying that having an issue with the ideology of the nazis, anti-semites, or any other ludicrous group is also bigotry.
Definitionally sure, maybe its bigotry, but shit if you still have a problem with gay people in this day and age, your opinion doesn't deserve respect.
integralmgmtThat's awesome for Gus, definitely a pioneer on and off the hill. I'm always so impressed by the insane level of precision he's able to display on anything from rails to jumps and the superpipe.
Despite almost all of us on NS supporting Gus, I think it's really important that we protect the opinions of both sides. I know where I stand and where I expect my friends to stand, but that doesn't mean my opinion is the only valid one. I often worry that we (most noticeable liberals) are really quick to shoot down other's views as unacceptable, when that's not true. Everyone is honestly entitled to believe whatever they want; I don't get to restrict that right, but I am responsible for forming my own views and holding myself accountable to them.
For real though, congrats Gus. So happy for you. Keep killing it!
I hear what you're saying but I feel the need to reply.
If somebodies opinion was that white people are superior, would you say "I don't believe that, but I respect your opinion".
The problem with this issue is that it's looked at as an opinion. I personally don't like turkey, but I respect peoples love for it, and their right to eat it. If you asked me what I think of turkey, I'd tell you I think their ugly birds that jump out in the road, and taste like shit.
That's an opinion, and unamerican or not, seems perfectly legit.
To me, saying "Well I don't believe in that"(not going to dive into the things I see regularly) regarding gay people is a different thing. You can believe they're wrong, inferior, going to hell, or whatever else you want to believe, but that doesn't mean that you're right.
The religious aspect is what makes this the most challenging in my opinion. At the same time, those of you following that trail to your conclusions about gay people...
There are a ton of religious gay people out there. For many of the, it's a massive hurdle.
I prayed for several years, read the bible, did anything I could just begging to be straight. I didn't want money, presents for christmas, I didn't want anything, that was my wish. If I could have one thing, that's what I would have gone with.
So somebody telling me that they don't believe what I'm doing is right, or that they don't agree with my "choice" is kind of viewed by me as a huge fuck you.
Do I understand it? Of course, I grew up religious, I didn't move away from it until my late teens. I just hate the idea that we should accept both sides of this issue as legitimate. We wouldn't go down that route with racism, so why here?
Also, I'm pretty chill on the issue, I have religious friend against gay people, we're still friends, it's whatever. I'm not the person that brings up being gay everywhere to start a fight. At the same time I just felt the need to give my $.02.
You can believe whatever you want, gay people are going to hell, we're lady gaga's bastard children, or anything else, but that doesn't necessarily make your views legitimate outside of your head.
Other there a lot of people that support that belief? Yes, but from somebody who spent years trying to pray to your god, to change, and seeing 0 results, I find most arguments against it pretty easy to sweep off as a "I was taught this at one point and my mind is closed to new information"
nocturnalYeah but where do you draw the line, there words and most of the time to not being directed at the person. Having red hair after that South Park episode came out I was called a fire crotch ginger and had no soul on and off the mountain. Doesn't necessarily mean people don't accept me for having red hair. I mean saying something like that helmet looks gay, I really don't see it as oh no I'll never be accepted for who I am. We are getting to a fine line and society and I start to see it as a problem when people want to limit what other people's words are. At the end of the day I think anybody can say anything about anyone no matter where they are good or bad. Just my .02 cents please downvote for freedom of speech.
There is indeed freedom of speech, but if you choose to use it to belittle and degrade other people, you're a bigot and a dickhead. You still just won't comprehend that using those words hurt people more than you know. I don't get why that is so hard to understand? You have even been on the receiving end of it, so you'd think you would be more understanding. And I get that you don't feel offended by people using the word gay negatively, but have you considered that others might?
nocturnalYeah but where do you draw the line, there words and most of the time to not being directed at the person. Having red hair after that South Park episode came out I was called a fire crotch ginger and had no soul on and off the mountain. Doesn't necessarily mean people don't accept me for having red hair. I mean saying something like that helmet looks gay, I really don't see it as oh no I'll never be accepted for who I am. We are getting to a fine line and society and I start to see it as a problem when people want to limit what other people's words are. At the end of the day I think anybody can say anything about anyone no matter where they are good or bad. Just my .02 cents please downvote for freedom of speech.
Having red hair and being called a fire crotch and being gay and hearing someone refer to something as gay are two completely different things. Having red hair was never illegal, you didn't have to worry about whether or not someone was going to bash you if you said you had red hair, for a very long time you weren't denied the right to marriage because of your hair, you can't be fired because of your hair, and this list goes on and on. The issue of institutionalised homophobia is a lot deeper than Frenchy saying he doesn't like gays. (miss you frenchy). It's the way we as a society view use the term "gay" as a form of insult. And like Gus Kenworthy said "when something's not cool it's refered to as gay" and you can easily see in ESPN's video that sort of thinking scares people as to coming out and whether or not they'll be accepted.
Obviously everyone is guilty of using gay as a term even when pretty much everyone would have no problem with someone being gay. We as a society should move away from using "gay" and "retarded", like your life isn't going to be ruined by not using those words, but someone's else life may be a little nicer if when they walk down the street or go on NS they aren't seeing gay plastered everywhere putting doubt in their mind if they will be accepted.
Obviously this isn't going to magically happen overnight, it will take time but I think most people don't want to make other people feel like shit and most people would avoid using gay or retarded if they knew how it made other people feel.
TLDR: avoid using the term gay, it makes people feel bad. SJW has faith in society can change
DingoSeanRemember. It's not even been 20 years since Matthew Shepard - that happened in freaking Ft. Collins, CO - a place where Lorax, Troy, and my roomie have all gone to school. All three are big skiers.
JibberinoThere is indeed freedom of speech, but if you choose to use it to belittle and degrade other people, you're a bigot and a dickhead. You still just won't comprehend that using those words hurt people more than you know. I don't get why that is so hard to understand? You have even been on the receiving end of it, so you'd think you would be more understanding. And I get that you don't feel offended by people using the word gay negatively, but have you considered that others might?
But that's my point words only have the power that you give them. I understand how can be offensive but I wouldn't go so far to say if some kid says that looks gay it means that they should hide who they are and they won't be allowed on the ski mountains.
S.J.WHaving red hair and being called a fire crotch and being gay and hearing someone refer to something as gay are two completely different things. Having red hair was never illegal, you didn't have to worry about whether or not someone was going to bash you if you said you had red hair, for a very long time you weren't denied the right to marriage because of your hair, you can't be fired because of your hair, and this list goes on and on. The issue of institutionalised homophobia is a lot deeper than Frenchy saying he doesn't like gays. (miss you frenchy). It's the way we as a society view use the term "gay" as a form of insult. And like Gus Kenworthy said "when something's not cool it's refered to as gay" and you can easily see in ESPN's video that sort of thinking scares people as to coming out and whether or not they'll be accepted.
Obviously everyone is guilty of using gay as a term even when pretty much everyone would have no problem with someone being gay. We as a society should move away from using "gay" and "retarded", like your life isn't going to be ruined by not using those words, but someone's else life may be a little nicer if when they walk down the street or go on NS they aren't seeing gay plastered everywhere putting doubt in their mind if they will be accepted.
Obviously this isn't going to magically happen overnight, it will take time but I think most people don't want to make other people feel like shit and most people would avoid using gay or retarded if they knew how it made other people feel.
TLDR: avoid using the term gay, it makes people feel bad. SJW has faith in society can change
Actually there have been many cases and lawsuits going on for people being discriminated against for having red hair. And I really don't think you realize what gingers had to go through after that South Park episode came out. ( and I'm not even a full ginger im a daywalker) however after a couple months me and everyone else is on she just got over it. I embrace the term and it just became alert to me.
What you don't realize is you're giving the biggets and homophobic power by saying those words are hurtful and trying to ban them. When you try to ban a word the other side is just going to use it more kinda like the Confederate flag. And as for people killing themselves for being gay nof getting married. That had nothing to do with words that had to do with groups of people discriminating against them which is very different.
@LANTASKIIsn't being unable to respect, and not chastise a person's beliefs kind of the definition of Bigotry?
No.
It isn't.
Absolutely not.
Can this concept die right here, please? Your beliefs have nothing to do with bigotry. Bigotry involves denigration of someone for an inherent quality. Your beliefs do not meet this standard, because they can change and SHOULD change if they are demonstrated to be wrong. Nobody's beliefs are above the harshest criticism, and if they can't withstand criticism, you shouldn't be holding them.
gavinrudyHow would you know? You're not gay, so you clearly don't have the personal experience of feeling the negativity of that word. Live a little in someone else's shoes, and by that I mean trust what people of different perspectives have to say. You've no way to really predict how you'd react if you were in their situation so you can't form a conclusion based on that.
Just... no. Fuck your identity politics, dude, don't you know how much this screws up the whole political process? With this attitude, you're actually somehow managing to be part of the problem.
Same exact note as above - there are not certain groups of people who are entitled to discuss certain issues. Any conclusion formed by anyone is valid or invalid on its own merits, and the personal experience or characteristics of the individual expressing that conclusion has absolutely fuck all to do with it. Hearing what experiences have informed your views is helpful but the fact that someone else hasn't had similar experiences has nothing to do with their ability to speak on any subject.
My views on the ethics of abortion are no more or less valid because I'm not a woman; my views on the death penalty aren't more or less valid because I've never been on death row.
How can both "sides" of this "debate" manage to get this so completely screwed up?
*YungBuckwheat*There aren't any haters. Who could hate Gus Kenworthy.
Yeah, it's nice to see how far this place has come, along with everywhere else, really. There's a whole lot more love for this than hate. 5 years ago I'm not sure that would have been true; ten years ago I am sure it wouldn't have been.
nocturnalBut that's my point words only have the power that you give them. I understand how can be offensive but I wouldn't go so far to say if some kid says that looks gay it means that they should hide who they are and they won't be allowed on the ski mountains.
Actually there have been many cases and lawsuits going on for people being discriminated against for having red hair. And I really don't think you realize what gingers had to go through after that South Park episode came out. ( and I'm not even a full ginger im a daywalker) however after a couple months me and everyone else is on she just got over it. I embrace the term and it just became alert to me.
What you don't realize is you're giving the biggets and homophobic power by saying those words are hurtful and trying to ban them. When you try to ban a word the other side is just going to use it more kinda like the Confederate flag. And as for people killing themselves for being gay nof getting married. That had nothing to do with words that had to do with groups of people discriminating against them which is very different.
10/10 for sources for red hair discrimination lawsuits.
And two wrongs don't make a right. Just because you got called a ginger at school doesn't mean you can go around using the term gay to describe everything you don't like. And if you do choose to use the word gay openly don't get all pissy when people call you out on it.
And as far as the words only have as much power as you give them argument. Homophobes are going to homophobes regardless of whether or not the general public use the word gay to describe something. But this discussion isn't about homophobes. It's about how in the closet gays are scared by whether or not they will be accepted by their friends and family when their friends and family are using the word gay as an insult.
