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The news this weekend that a gigantic American war-plane unrelentingly bombed a hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan for an hour can hardly be seen as an anomaly in a world thoroughly accustomed to the North American nation state’s global reign of terror.
The US AC-130 military aircraft lay waste to the hospital, setting patients laying in their sickbeds on fire, and dispersing volunteers body parts far and wide. At least 22 people have died so far, including 10 patients and 12 staffers. 3 children were among the dead.
The hospital, staffed by Doctor’s Without Borders, had repeatedly given its exact coordinates to the US military to avoid such an attack. The Doctor’s Without Borders organization is all too aware of the dangers doctors face in an American war zone and was sure to take every precaution, but ultimately the American military machine is not a force that can be reasoned with.
There is no precaution that can be taken to shield against a violent, destructive force that exists only to create chaos; to destabilise resource-rich regions and then allow American corporations to march in and plunder the battered population’s wealth.
The long, long history of American attacks on civilians in the lands they invade and conquer can only be described as a perverse monopoly on terrorism. The US leaders and their media expend incredible energy on inciting hatred against the ‘terrorists’ in the regions they’ve targeted for assimilation. These ‘terrorist’ fighters try desperately but futilely to fight back at the aggressive foreign attackers that fill their lands and skies.
The indigenous ‘terrorists’ are denigrated by NATO members as the very worst of humanity. Yet, the American military has slaughtered far more innocent men, women and children than any terrorist cell in history. In Afghanistan alone, just since 2008, the UN has documented 1,700 confirmed civilian kills by NATO airstrikes.
A similar strategy is employed on the home front, with the American police force’s strict monopoly on violence brutalizing America’s working poor. This so-called ‘legitimate use of physical force’ is held exclusively by the state.
“The modern state is a compulsory association which organizes domination.” –Max Weber
For a state to dominate, attack, imprison and assassinate its own population is bad enough, but when this state decides it holds the same monopoly over the entire planet’s population – this is cause for great alarm and it should be reason enough for the people of the world to embark on a mass shunning of this global terrorist organization that has made itself the de-facto compulsory world government, ruling over every being on the face of the planet.
It has gotten to the point where any person standing against North American imperialism is labelled a terrorist. Civilians of conquered nations are given a simple choice; either support the puppet government installed for you by the US, or you are a terrorist. Again and again, the empire vilifies anyone that stands apart from the state. The state is unquestionable, to oppose it is blasphemy and all those who attempt to fight against it will be branded terrorists and assassinated from the skies.
But what of the doctors, nurses and other apolitical volunteers dedicating their lives to treat the victims of the empire’s infinite wars? After the airstrikes on the hospital, the US desperately tried to excuse their latest slaughter, changing their story like clockwork every few hours, clumsily trying to shift the blame onto their puppet Afghan regime, and of course never offering anything resembling an apology for the unprovoked carnage.
The initial statement released by the US was the first of many blatant lies:
“U.S. forces conducted an airstrike in Kunduz city at 2:15am (local), Oct. 3, against individuals threatening the force. The strike may have resulted in collateral damage to a nearby medical facility.”
Of course, it is now clear that the hospital was directly targeted for continuous bombing over a one-hour period, and wasn’t anything close to ‘collateral damage’ as the US claimed.
This surreal phrase, ‘collateral damage’, is so frequently used to excuse the mass ‘casualties’ (murdered people) of America’s global terror campaign ‘Operation Enduring Freedom’, that it has become embedded in the consciousness of the average US citizen, and as soon as the word ‘collateral damage’ is uttered, we’re able to shrug our shoulders and stop ourselves from analyzing the mass murder of innocents any further. After all, the brave US world police, punishing the evildoers that would stand in the way of American freedom (mass murder) and prosperity (mass profit) is completely necessary for our survival. The rest of the world is filled to the brim with terrorists, anarchists and communists, and we must destroy them all.
So, when the initial statement US officials released was held up to the light and found to be full of holes, the cunning US leaders, frustrated that the media hadn’t yet moved on to the next story, decided that the bad guys must have been hiding inside the hospital, and that necessitated the bombing. Usually, this is enough to placate the world’s cajoler media, with the only dissenting voices being unimportant brown peasants with missing limbs and dead babies; of no interest to the cosmopolitan westerner.
But this time, the US propaganda arm was up against a highly-respected western organization, Doctor’s Without Borders, and the medical humanitarian group refused to allow the war-makers lies to propagate. This is one of many denouncements that was published to the Doctors Without Borders twitter stream:
“(We are) disgusted by the recent statements justifying the attack. These statements imply that Afghan and US forces working together decided to raze to the ground a fully functioning hospital – with more than 180 staff and patients inside – because they claim members of the Taliban were present. This amounts to an admission of a war crime. This utterly contradicts the initial attempts of the US government to minimise the attack as ‘collateral damage’. There can be no justification for this abhorrent attack on our hospital that resulted in the deaths of MSF staff as they worked, and patients as they lay in their beds. MSF reiterates its demand for a full transparent and independent international investigation.”
You would think that the US; the indisputable leader of the NATO empire, would be better at spinning its lies by now. I suppose they can’t be blamed for their feeble efforts, since they’re so unaccustomed to actually having to explain their actions to the public with any semblance of logic or common sense. The level of scrutiny this charitable organisation is suddenly shining on the almighty USA is simply unreasonable – We come, we destroy, we profit. It’s not that complicated, so why ask questions?
MSF153449
“Fucking charity workers, don’t you know America kills you to safeguard your freedom?”
After repeatedly giving their exact GPS coordinates to the US forces, most recently 5 days before the attack, the personnel at the hospital again called the US military during the attack. The staffers begged them to stop the bombing. Their pleas were ignored and the attacks continued for another 30 minutes.
This is by no means the first time the US has bombed a hospital. They’ve also wiped out schools, news stations, mosques, a wedding party, countless homes and several entire villages, each time refusing to apologise and offering wafer-thin explanations such as, “they sympathized with the Taliban”, “the report cannot be independently verified” and the trusty old “unfortunate collateral damage”.
The monopoly on terror that the US has enjoyed going as far back as 1950, can only be taken away from them if we stop allowing the officials to excuse their horrific actions with perverse doublespeak. These brave and courageous people weren’t ‘collateral damage’, or co-conspirators of a dastardly Taliban plot, they were simply the latest in a long list of USA murder victims.
It has become increasingly ironic that Afghanistan was invaded by the US all those years ago for being a ‘state sponsor of terrorism’.
Also ironic, or perhaps eerie is a better word: Doctor’s Without Borders had previously criticised the US for its Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP). The agreement has just been met, affecting 40% of the world’s economy.
As a country, how long are we going to let this go on? How long are we going to pretend that the endless wars we're in are for humanity reasons rather than resource reasons? The information is out there, yet mainstream news outlets will never report truthfully on it.
I believe the public is finally waking up. America doesn't act in the interest of its citizens, there is so much stuff you could find that demonizes the government but too many people are busy watching football to learn something.
_Ryan_I believe the public is finally waking up. America doesn't act in the interest of its citizens, there is so much stuff you could find that demonizes the government but too many people are busy watching football to learn something.
I believe more and more people are waking up too but it's no where near enough. It's hardly a topic of conversation ever. Maybe because I don't watch the news that often or the people I'm around don't talk about it.
The fact that the Americans had those coordinates as a "don't bomb here" shows complacent to me. Have they got so used to bombing that they don't triple check each other and just bomb a spot for a whole hour? Meanwhile though the hospital claims it called and told them what was going on? It's just so crazy. Will any countries hold us responsible because they damn well should...
more outrage over a lion being killed than a bunch of innocent people.
not familiar with humanitarian codes/laws but this surely isn't allowed, right? even in the event of hospitals housing the "enemy". I remember the whole Israel/Palestine conflict caused a ton of people to be outraged due to bombings in civilian areas. why aren't we kicking up dust over this?
DeebieSkeebiesmore outrage over a lion being killed than a bunch of innocent people.
not familiar with humanitarian codes/laws but this surely isn't allowed, right? even in the event of hospitals housing the "enemy". I remember the whole Israel/Palestine conflict caused a ton of people to be outraged due to bombings in civilian areas. why aren't we kicking up dust over this?
The main reason this story is not blowing up is that the U.S. government is not allowing the major news outlets to report on this. Those same mainstream news outlets are the ones that decide what issues are important to us. They are the ones that make Cecil the Lion seem like the biggest story since 9/11. Even the NY times has to run their stories by the federal government before they report on them. That means you have to question pretty much any story they write about the war. That is, if they even report on the war.
My brother also posted this article in a rogan group on FB with well over 10k members and nobody has commented on it. And that is a very active forum. Maybe because the article seems long? Maybe we should somehow turn that into a meme that is easily digestible? If it had a confederate flag in the picture or Bruce Jenner in the title it would easily have 25 comments in the first 10 mins. That proves the point that the mainstream media decides what issues our society finds important.
I used this quote in another thread but it is powerful:
I wish the American people would finally demand that their government end its destructive policy of trying to change any regime that does not bow to Washington’s demands. I wish Congress respected our Constitution enough to demand that the president seek a declaration of war before attacking a foreign country. I wish President Bush and his neocon advisors had never decided to overthrow the Syrian government. I wish President Obama had fired the neocons who led him from one foolish intervention to another. I wish the CIA had not trained rebels to fight alongside al-Qaeda in Syria. I wish we would reject the shrill cries of the warmongers. I wish the US media was more than just a propaganda arm of the US government.
Park skiers have money sure but the people that the government listens to have big time money. The kind of people that can afford build their entire mansion out of brand new ON3Ps and wipe their asses with nothing but $100 bills. These guys are so rich they can completely insulate themselves from the perception of any negative self consequences and so insulated they believe their profits are worth it.
War sucks for everyone.
There's got to be something that they aren't telling us. Some sort of high level terrorist leader that was in the hospital or something. But I agree with you OP.
Rosa_ParkThere's got to be something that they aren't telling us. Some sort of high level terrorist leader that was in the hospital or something. But I agree with you OP.
You have faith in the government, huh? lol. The fact that we're at war 7 years after Obama is elected is asinine..
Rosa_ParkThere's got to be something that they aren't telling us. Some sort of high level terrorist leader that was in the hospital or something. But I agree with you OP.
US/NATO planes bombed a hospital operated by Doctors Without Borders in Afghanistan on Saturday. The attack lasted an hour, and continued even after medics “frantically phoned NATO and Washington” to tell them what they were bombing.
It was no use. The attackers already knew full well what their target was. Doctors Without Borders had long ago provided them with the GPS coordinates of their facilities. And the US-installed Afghan government, which had raided that very same hospital in July of this year, had requested the strike, claiming the hospital was being used by insurgents.
The attack killed 22 people, including 12 medical workers and 10 patients. Three of the patients were children. The first bombardment targeted the Intensive Care Unit, where an eyewitness nurse said, “Patients were burning in their beds.” And a hospital caretaker said that he could hear women and children, “screaming for help inside the hospital while it was set ablaze by the bombing.”
US/NATO planes bombed a hospital operated by Doctors Without Borders in Afghanistan on Saturday. The attack lasted an hour, and continued even after medics “frantically phoned NATO and Washington” to tell them what they were bombing.
It was no use. The attackers already knew full well what their target was. Doctors Without Borders had long ago provided them with the GPS coordinates of their facilities. And the US-installed Afghan government, which had raided that very same hospital in July of this year, had requested the strike, claiming the hospital was being used by insurgents.
The attack killed 22 people, including 12 medical workers and 10 patients. Three of the patients were children. The first bombardment targeted the Intensive Care Unit, where an eyewitness nurse said, “Patients were burning in their beds.” And a hospital caretaker said that he could hear women and children, “screaming for help inside the hospital while it was set ablaze by the bombing.”
Rosa_ParkThere's got to be something that they aren't telling us. Some sort of high level terrorist leader that was in the hospital or something. But I agree with you OP.
It's pretty clear what happened the Afghan army was fighting, because the Taliban took the city over the day before. They gave the coordinates for an air strike, because they needed support, and the military intelligence didn't do the due diligence in just fire the missiles where the Afghan army requested.
Rosa_ParkThere's got to be something that they aren't telling us. Some sort of high level terrorist leader that was in the hospital or something. But I agree with you OP.
Are you serious?
And OP, it's only terrorism if it's against us, preferably by brown people of a different culture.
If somebody kills an American soldier over there right now there considered to be a terrorist by many people here. It doesn't really matter that that is a part of war.
On the flip side, we can and do kill anybody and that's just part of America spreading our freedom. Dead civilians? Who gives a fuck? The war is over there, and it's a bunch of brown people we don't relate to.
If somehow they managed to get some sort of missile across the ocean and through our defenses and hit something, even if it only killed one civilian, even if it killed 0 civilians and one person in the military, hell even if it killed nobody and simply hit a tree. We would condemn that as an act of terrorism. American flags would be hung, USA chants, and let's get those motherfuckers! type deals would be heard.
At the same time we could blow up a million civilians there, and we wouldn't care. We don't associate with them. To us they're not really human, and thanks to that distinction, we simply don't care.
I mean one American life is worth more than millions of civilians from other countries right?
We talk about freedom and democracy, but have no problem arming rebel groups and or assassinating sometimes elected leaders that don't want to do business are way.
I mean obviously we're always right, and they are always wrong/evil. So I really don't see a problem with it.
Anybody who rags on our foreign policy just hates freedom.
And OP, it's only terrorism if it's against us, preferably by brown people of a different culture.
If somebody kills an American soldier over there right now there considered to be a terrorist by many people here. It doesn't really matter that that is a part of war.
On the flip side, we can and do kill anybody and that's just part of America spreading our freedom. Dead civilians? Who gives a fuck? The war is over there, and it's a bunch of brown people we don't relate to.
If somehow they managed to get some sort of missile across the ocean and through our defenses and hit something, even if it only killed one civilian, even if it killed 0 civilians and one person in the military, hell even if it killed nobody and simply hit a tree. We would condemn that as an act of terrorism. American flags would be hung, USA chants, and let's get those motherfuckers! type deals would be heard.
At the same time we could blow up a million civilians there, and we wouldn't care. We don't associate with them. To us they're not really human, and thanks to that distinction, we simply don't care.
I mean one American life is worth more than millions of civilians from other countries right?
We talk about freedom and democracy, but have no problem arming rebel groups and or assassinating sometimes elected leaders that don't want to do business are way.
I mean obviously we're always right, and they are always wrong/evil. So I really don't see a problem with it.
Anybody who rags on our foreign policy just hates freedom.
I don't know why I waste the time but reading some of these comments on social media about this makes me want to throw my computer out into the street. Are people really sitting there defending/justifying these war crimes? Or the classic "humanitarian workers should know that going over seas is dangerous, why should we feel bad? Christians get killed by Isis every day hurrrdurrrr".
God this country is full of retards and its a shame we have to share the same oxygen with them.
louie.miragsAs a country, how long are we going to let this go on? How long are we going to pretend that the endless wars we're in are for humanity reasons rather than resource reasons? The information is out there, yet mainstream news outlets will never report truthfully on it.
That article made Fox News blush at its bias haha.
californiagrownThat article made Fox News blush at its bias haha.
Probably true. A few days ago some of the links I saw floating around facebook were the kind of sites I don't click on.
That said regardless of anything from this, we(the American public) don't seen to give a fuck about who get's killed over seas as long as we have, or are able to demonize them.
We suck at relating to other people. This keeps us in conflict about race, culture, religion, and anything else we can fight about.
We're great at seeing out differences and distancing ourselves from other people. We're pretty awful at looking at things from other peoples perspectives, understanding them, and empathizing with them.
AlsoKnownAsProbably true. A few days ago some of the links I saw floating around facebook were the kind of sites I don't click on.
That said regardless of anything from this, we(the American public) don't seen to give a fuck about who get's killed over seas as long as we have, or are able to demonize them.
We suck at relating to other people. This keeps us in conflict about race, culture, religion, and anything else we can fight about.
We're great at seeing out differences and distancing ourselves from other people. We're pretty awful at looking at things from other peoples perspectives, understanding them, and empathizing with them.
Idk. This is a huge story, and frankly, we didn't kill all that many people. Just did if in a heinous way.
Bombings and terrible shit happens constantly over there so we are desensitized to it, until we are the direct cause.
louie.miragsI posted this in the Bernie thread but it relates more here:
Ironic
I posted something similar in a gun control thread on here a couple days ago. About how we really only give a fuck about this small fraction of violence. Inner cities, other countries, etc doesn't matter.
californiagrownIdk. This is a huge story, and frankly, we didn't kill all that many people. Just did if in a heinous way.
Bombings and terrible shit happens constantly over there so we are desensitized to it, until we are the direct cause.
Yeah, I just can imagine if something small happened in the states. I mean it's been such a long time since a war has taken place here. We're always at war, but it's always i some far away place we never have to visit.
Rosa_ParkI agree with you I am just trying to come up with some reason that they may have done it... I hate americas bullshit as any other intelligent person..
I know, but we've done some pretty fucked up shit over the years. How people feel about everything overall is up to them, but we've definitely overlooked a lot of stuff over the years.
californiagrownIdk. This is a huge story, and frankly, we didn't kill all that many people. Just did if in a heinous way.
Didn't kill that many people? You're trolling with that statement.
californiagrownBrilliant deduction!
Your attempt to discredit and justify the incident mixed with trolly post hurt my head. I've notice that you like to argue for the sake of arguing even if you don't necessarily agree with what you're saying.
-benedettoDidn't kill that many people? You're trolling with that statement.
22 dead. That happens weekly through bombings in that part of the world. It is not an exceptionally large number killed for that part of the world.
Your attempt to discredit and justify the incident mixed with trolly post hurt my head. I've notice that you like to argue for the sake of arguing even if you don't necessarily agree with what you're saying.
I didn't try to discredit or justify it anywhere. Nor did I imply anything other than that was a horrible article written about a very popular and well covered event. You're seeing things that aren't there chief.
I think the psychology behind it is pretty interesting. There's an article somewher called a war with words. It talks about how the media and the military use certain words to desensitize us.
You never here the details about the people killed. It's always them or it or they. "They" are something devoid emotion and humanity which is why it's so easy for us to stomach hearing about this. That's what we've been taught.
You tell a soldier to drop a bomb on a hospital with doctors who have families and children, and who are working for a positive cause ...and they will have a difficult time doing it.
Tell them there is a bunch of shithead jihadist in there and it's no problem
And OP, it's only terrorism if it's against us, preferably by brown people of a different culture.
If somebody kills an American soldier over there right now there considered to be a terrorist by many people here. It doesn't really matter that that is a part of war.
On the flip side, we can and do kill anybody and that's just part of America spreading our freedom. Dead civilians? Who gives a fuck? The war is over there, and it's a bunch of brown people we don't relate to.
If somehow they managed to get some sort of missile across the ocean and through our defenses and hit something, even if it only killed one civilian, even if it killed 0 civilians and one person in the military, hell even if it killed nobody and simply hit a tree. We would condemn that as an act of terrorism. American flags would be hung, USA chants, and let's get those motherfuckers! type deals would be heard.
At the same time we could blow up a million civilians there, and we wouldn't care. We don't associate with them. To us they're not really human, and thanks to that distinction, we simply don't care.
I mean one American life is worth more than millions of civilians from other countries right?
We talk about freedom and democracy, but have no problem arming rebel groups and or assassinating sometimes elected leaders that don't want to do business are way.
I mean obviously we're always right, and they are always wrong/evil. So I really don't see a problem with it.
Anybody who rags on our foreign policy just hates freedom.
californiagrownIdk. This is a huge story, and frankly, we didn't kill all that many people. Just did if in a heinous way. l
More than the amount of people killed in the last Oregon shootings. They are both horrible incidents but our society cares more about the americans. The majority of our country is screaming for change because of gun violence, meanwhile you say about non-americans, "we didn't kill all that many people." Just because they're not American? Yet, you just got lucky being born in America. We're all people.
louie.miragsMore than the amount of people killed in the last Oregon shootings. They are both horrible incidents but our society cares more about the americans. The majority of our country is screaming for change because of gun violence, meanwhile you say about non-americans, "we didn't kill all that many people." Just because they're not American? Yet, you just got lucky being born in America. We're all people.
Maybe it's because I don't get my news from social media, but I've seen waaaaay more outrage over the accidental bombing.
Also, there is a difference between a gunman killing people at a school, and a screwup in the fog of war.
californiagrownMaybe it's because I don't get my news from social media, but I've seen waaaaay more outrage over the accidental bombing.
Also, there is a difference between a gunman killing people at a school, and a screwup in the fog of war.
So, where do you get your news from? If it was not for reddit I would have never been exposed to this news. And I don't watch TV or mainstream news
"fog of war" is not an excuse in this case. The hospital repeatedly called saying to stop bombing. They knew it was a hospital. This is our tax dollars hard at work with a president who promised change.
louie.miragsSo, where do you get your news from? If it was not for reddit I would have never been exposed to this news. And I don't watch TV or mainstream news
"fog of war" is not an excuse in this case. The hospital repeatedly called saying to stop bombing. They knew it was a hospital. This is our tax dollars hard at work with a president who promised change.
Largely al Jazeera, BBC, and NPR.
The hospital had also given their coordinates multiple times beforehand. What likely happened is Afghan forces told the US to bomb that site because "fighters were using it". We didn't do due diligence to back check the story. I absolutely don't believe the US bombed a hospital with the intent to soley kill civilians... And I think you'd be crazy to think otherwise. Huge fuckup, totally the USA's fault. Awful what happened. But a mistake, NOT a premeditated killing of soley civilians.
I said this earlier in the thread but it had to be complacency. I use that term because they always preached in the Navy about not being complacent. One would assume they would triple check before dropping bombs especially when it sounds like it wasn't immediate danger. But we don't have the full story.
louie.miragsSo, where do you get your news from? If it was not for reddit I would have never been exposed to this news. And I don't watch TV or mainstream news
"fog of war" is not an excuse in this case. The hospital repeatedly called saying to stop bombing. They knew it was a hospital. This is our tax dollars hard at work with a president who promised change.
Additionally I've seen this story a bunch on the NBC Nightly News. That's about as mainstream as it gets lol.
As for a president who promised change... How many wars with ground troops are we fighting right now? You don't think that is change? Gay marriage, healthcare? You don't think that's change? Do you know what the word "change" means?
californiagrownAdditionally I've seen this story a bunch on the NBC Nightly News. That's about as mainstream as it gets lol.
As for a president who promised change... How many wars with ground troops are we fighting right now? You don't think that is change? Gay marriage, healthcare? You don't think that's change? Do you know what the word "change" means?
Yes, I understand that there have been some major changes. But the healthcare issues are far from fixed. And the mainstream articles on the bombing have been the U.S. flip flopping why it happened. From it being called "collateral damage" to the U.S. claiming they thought terrorist were hiding there. Either way, America has been dropping bombs without an act of war and bombing a hospital is a warcrime.
The nightly news did bring it up and kept referring to it as a "mistake". Even though for the last few days they could not get their story straight. The fact they keep referring to bombing a hospital as a "mistake" gets so many people to be actually buy into that narrative. Which is bullshit. They knew very well there was a hospital there.
I truly find it crazy how so many people (including yourself) are in support of civilian lives being murdered just because they are not American. Or just because it is "collateral damage".
I wonder what the media would broadcast if Russia bombed that hospital.
I'm fucking done watching propaganda news, CNN, Fox News, MSMBC, they are all bought off by corporations and are the talking heads for the oligarchs just like RT and China today is. They repealed the smith mundt act, which gives the government power to propagandize western media.
They often sensationalize the truth or tell you truth A but refuse to tell you truth B. They tell you what they want you to hear and not what you should hear.
Presently, Iran, Iraq, Syria, China and Russia recently made an intelligence pact, sharing information together to pinpoint and destroy ISIS strongholds in and around Syria. As we know Russia has started to bomb ISIS inside of Syria, with the assistance of the Chinese government/military and permission from Assad. Hence, this follows international laws. Now Germany’s Angela Merkel states, that Assad needs to be a part of the conversation. “Approaching Assad would be an about-face in the way the west is dealing with Syria.”
If Germany is making a stance against US foreign policy, France will most likely take a similar stance soon.
Globally, we have Turkey, Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Qatar with the United States who have directly and indirectly supported the growth of ISIS opposed to Russia, Iran, Iraq, China, Syria, China, Germany and soon to be France. Israel fighter jets have been bombing Assad, when Assad is fighting ISIS and he is the last garrison keeping ISIS at bay from fully taking over that region.
Russia is now threatening to shoot Israel fighter jets down and has been invading turkish air space. Pretty dangerous shit is going down.
Yeah, big, old bad Russia, who in the past 24 hours has targeted four ISIS command centers, a jihad training center, a workshop supposedly producing suicide belts, and three ISIS army depots. Why is it that the US led coalition has spent a whole year supposedly bombing ISIS, yet ISIS continues to grow exponentially. They gained millions of dollars from Saudi Arabia and Turkey by selling off the oil that they were stealing. Could it be that they refrained from bombing ISIS for political interests so as to destabilize Syria and oust Assad?
Reuters reported that Syrian trained rebels that the US gave intelligence and weapons to, gave those weapons, arms, trucks and intelligence to Al-Nusra. The Al Qaeda front fighting in Syria against Assad.
Russia is very bad they kill civilians in Syria, next day the US coalition bombs an Afghan hospital. CNN broadcasted that the big, old Taliban bombed the hospital. US reports were so vague no one could figure out who bombed the hospital. Then the US coalition made the assumption that the hospital was a Taliban base. CNN and NYT have been obscuring who actually caused this bombing. I could go into more detail but the fact of the matter is that the world is starting to turn against the United States.
In my personal opinion the US was training ISIS in Syria to oust Assad. Assad needs to go because he disagreed with the pipeline from saudi Arabia that was going to go through Turkey and bypass Russia. The geopolitics of this region is completely screwed up.
Sounds like the makings of WW3. I don't want that until after my Inactive Reserve Time is up which is Feb 2016. jk. Obviously, I would never want a WW3..
louie.miragsYes, I understand that there have been some major changes. But the healthcare issues are far from fixed. And the mainstream articles on the bombing have been the U.S. flip flopping why it happened. From it being called "collateral damage" to the U.S. claiming they thought terrorist were hiding there. Either way, America has been dropping bombs without an act of war and bombing a hospital is a warcrime.
The nightly news did bring it up and kept referring to it as a "mistake". Even though for the last few days they could not get their story straight. The fact they keep referring to bombing a hospital as a "mistake" gets so many people to be actually buy into that narrative. Which is bullshit. They knew very well there was a hospital there.
I truly find it crazy how so many people (including yourself) are in support of civilian lives being murdered just because they are not American. Or just because it is "collateral damage".
Lol. Get learned. Bombing a hospital isn't a warcrime. Bombing a hospital and knowingly killing some civilians isn't a war crime. You should get your facts straight, my man.
Similar to first degree murder, there has to be intent to commit the murder of civilians not considered "collateral damage".
This was a mistake. How do you think it wasn't? Lol.
You honestly think the US had the intent to bomb a hospital and strictly cause civilian casualties?
Collateral damage has been a grey area since the beginning of war. It is a fine line for sure and officers are court marshalled for using there best judgment that steps over the line. How much collateral damage is acceptable? Is it okay to prolong a war because you may oray not harm a civilian or two? Where is that line? It's not black and white at all. It's war.
californiagrownLol. Get learned. Bombing a hospital isn't a warcrime. Bombing a hospital and knowingly killing some civilians isn't a war crime. You should get your facts straight, my man.
.
Where'd you get the information that bombing a hospital isn't a war crime? I saw a report saying even if there was injured combatants in there, it's still against the rules of war.
Killing civilians should be a crime during an unwinnable war. And is it even a war? It's all grey.
californiagrownLol. Get learned. Bombing a hospital isn't a warcrime. Bombing a hospital and knowingly killing some civilians isn't a war crime. You should get your facts straight, my man.
Similar to first degree murder, there has to be intent to commit the murder of civilians not considered "collateral damage".
This was a mistake. How do you think it wasn't? Lol.
You honestly think the US had the intent to bomb a hospital and strictly cause civilian casualties?
Collateral damage has been a grey area since the beginning of war. It is a fine line for sure and officers are court marshalled for using there best judgment that steps over the line. How much collateral damage is acceptable? Is it okay to prolong a war because you may oray not harm a civilian or two? Where is that line? It's not black and white at all. It's war.
Relax with your "get learned" talk. You are googling the same shit I am. And of course the U.S. is claiming it was a mistake, that is how they get out of it.
Whether or not they were targeting the hospital or really thought there were terrorist there, this is not the first "mistake" in the "fog of war". The estimated death count in this undeclared war is in the 100s of thousands. And to make matters worse, they were attempting to call off the strike and the bombing continued.
Stop the wars. Stop spending trillions of dollars overseas when we have our own problems. What bothers me so much is our tax dollars are paying for these murders. The same tax dollars they'll throw you in jail for if you don't pay. So we're forced to take part in this mass murder.
louie.miragsRelax with your "get learned" talk. You are googling the same shit I am. And of course the U.S. is claiming it was a mistake, that is how they get out of it.
Whether or not they were targeting the hospital or really thought there were terrorist there, this is not the first "mistake" in the "fog of war". The estimated death count in this undeclared war is in the 100s of thousands. And to make matters worse, they were attempting to call off the strike and the bombing continued.
Stop the wars. Stop spending trillions of dollars overseas when we have our own problems. What bothers me so much is our tax dollars are paying for these murders. The same tax dollars they'll throw you in jail for if you don't pay. So we're forced to take part in this mass murder.
I'm not googling, it helps when your only source of news isn't social media ;)
And America is inextricably linked with the world's economy. We need to be a player in everything that goes on around the world trying to stabilize regions and getting their policies to benefit us. We cannot become isolationists from an economic perspective, and IMO, from a moral one either.
Can we better plan and execute our military efforts, sure. But hindsight is 20/20 and criticising from the sideline is easy. Doesn't mean you should let your voice and opinion be heard, but you need to have a grasp on the factors involved at ground level as well as the bigger picture.
californiagrownLol. Get learned. Bombing a hospital isn't a warcrime. Bombing a hospital and knowingly killing some civilians isn't a war crime. You should get your facts straight, my man.
Similar to first degree murder, there has to be intent to commit the murder of civilians not considered "collateral damage".
This was a mistake. How do you think it wasn't? Lol.
You honestly think the US had the intent to bomb a hospital and strictly cause civilian casualties?
Collateral damage has been a grey area since the beginning of war. It is a fine line for sure and officers are court marshalled for using there best judgment that steps over the line. How much collateral damage is acceptable? Is it okay to prolong a war because you may oray not harm a civilian or two? Where is that line? It's not black and white at all. It's war.
In general terms, a war crime may be committed when there is an attack on a civilian population during an armed conflict, said Steven Kay, a lawyer who defended Kenyan President Uhuru Kenyatta against charges of crimes against humanity at the International Criminal Court,
There is an extensive body of law that regulates military action during conflict.
The aim, said Anthony Dworkin, a human rights expert at the European Council on Foreign Relations, is to draw a balance between what armed forces are justified to do out of military necessity -- which includes causing collateral damage to civilians -- and the principles of humanity.
"Hospitals enjoy a special protected status under international humanitarian law. So, to attack a hospital or medical facility, whether it is a civilian or military installation, is a crime," Kay said.
Saturday wasn't the first time Doctors Without Borders has complained about military action on the Kunduz hospital.
In July, the aid group condemned what it called a "violent incursion by armed members of Afghan Special Forces." The troops allegedly entered the hospital -- which, according to MSF, "has a strict no weapons policy" like its other facilities -- and "physically assaulted three MSF staff members (and arrested) three patients." Those patients were released after an hour.
"Since it opened in 2011, Kunduz Trauma Center has been a place where all patients can receive free medical and surgical care safely," MSF's Director of Operations Dr. Bart Janssens said at the time. "This serious event puts at risk the lives of thousands of people who rely on the center for urgent care."
californiagrownI'm not googling, it helps when your only source of news isn't social media ;)
again, relax with the trolls. It is obvious you say shit just to stir the pot. It is getting annoying having a convo with you because in person you wouldn't respond like that. If you did respond with those subtle trolls we would simply never be friends. And it would surprise me if you actually had any friends. I say that not as an insult but as me letting you know I am picking up on the trolls.
My source is not social media. Throughtout this thread and the Bernie thread I have provided many sources and you have not. You have just been acting like you already know it all. And it is also clear you're buying into the what the mainstream media is saying. It was all a mistake and America is in this for humanitarian reasons. Those 100s of thousands of deaths are all simply "collateral damage".... right
louie.miragsagain, relax with the trolls. It is obvious you say shit just to stir the pot. It is getting annoying having a convo with you because in person you wouldn't respond like that. If you did respond with those subtle trolls we would simply never be friends. And it would surprise me if you actually had any friends. I say that not as an insult but as me letting you know I am picking up on the trolls.
My source is not social media. Throughtout this thread and the Bernie thread I have provided many sources and you have not. You have just been acting like you already know it all. And it is also clear you're buying into the what the mainstream media is saying. It was all a mistake and America is in this for humanitarian reasons. Those 100s of thousands of deaths are all simply "collateral damage".... right
You literally said you get all your news from Reddit.... And what queued you onto the teasing, the winky face maybe? Hahahaha
You just seem to have a hard time dealing with someone who disagrees with you and is extremely knowledgeable on the subject. Sorry, but you might not have all the answers my man?
