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Whats the biggest issue with buying skis today?

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jpastor
Posts: 431 - Karma: 848
My self personally have not had an issue with buying skis, I have just always know what I wanted.

But for the people that do not quite know what they want what is the biggest problem with finding that perfect ski or quiver of skis.

Are there to many options?
Websites that do not have detailed enough descriptions or reviews of the ski?
You can not narrow your search down?
Maybe your shop just does not understand the way you ski or they do not know enough?
The websites are just to over whelming?

Would love to know what you guys think
Jun 11 2015 5:04PM
119 11
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gotti
Posts: 4269 - Karma: 4,548
skis aint skateboards

/thread
Jun 11 2015 5:05PM
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ndye
Posts: 3756 - Karma: 7,088
They cost a fuck ton
Jun 11 2015 5:06PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 8913 - Karma: 57,407
yeah personally my biggest problem is there are so many options, which is great, but it's sort of overwhelming.

the other major gripe i have is that there's no standard rating for flex, it's just whatever the company deems it to be

i can look at ski X and ski Y and see the specs of each-- 96 in the waist is 96 in the waist-- but there's no good way to compare the flex of each ski without trying them both or asking someone who's tried both and whose judgment you trust

i think it'd be sick if 1) flexes were standardized (no idea how that would work) and 2) there was a site or something where i could enter the specs i wanted, the flex i wanted, the price range, camber options, etc, and it would generate a list for me. that'd be quite an endeavor though, if you wanted it to be comprehensive
Jun 11 2015 5:09PM
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OregonDead
Posts: 6794 - Karma: 23,540
ndyeThey cost a fuck ton


This, otherwise I would buy skis all the time. I have no problem finding skis I'd want to ride but it's hard to justify the price. When I see a great deal I usually talk myself out of it because I know I need to keep fuel in the car.
Jun 11 2015 5:36PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043
Titsandwich11i think it'd be sick if 1) flexes were standardized (no idea how that would work) and 2) there was a site or something where i could enter the specs i wanted, the flex i wanted, the price range, camber options, etc, and it would generate a list for me. that'd be quite an endeavor though, if you wanted it to be comprehensive


I think your second point is exactly how the review system here should work. You put in the stats you want then it generates possibilitys and you can take a look at the reviews. Improvements are ongoing so hopefully we can get it to a stage where it works how you describe.

As for flex it's hard. It's not just the flex but the rocker and mount point which effect it. People forget simply mounting a binding 2cm back can entirely change the flex pattern of a ski. For this reason it's supper hard to quantify and why it really is still best to demo.
Jun 11 2015 6:04PM
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JGWI
Posts: 2842 - Karma: 7,812
I now have a pretty good idea of what I like and don't like so buying gear is pretty straight forward. I would say one of the biggest problems with gear sales today is the low informed sales that go on through big box stores. I was lucky that I chose a good 'honest' shop to get my first set up from but I know a few people who really got taken and didn't even realize it until they became more invested in the sport.
Jun 11 2015 6:04PM
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myllhouse
Posts: 1064 - Karma: 2,154
all these bugs in my skin
Jun 11 2015 6:24PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 8913 - Karma: 57,407
tomPietrowskiI think your second point is exactly how the review system here should work. You put in the stats you want then it generates possibilitys and you can take a look at the reviews. Improvements are ongoing so hopefully we can get it to a stage where it works how you describe.

As for flex it's hard. It's not just the flex but the rocker and mount point which effect it. People forget simply mounting a binding 2cm back can entirely change the flex pattern of a ski. For this reason it's supper hard to quantify and why it really is still best to demo.


yeah i should have elaborated on that part.. even if companies all agreed on a standard flex rating (and idk enough to even know if that's plausible), there are a lot of other variables. but it'd be a start

but that system being tried on this site is a great, ambitious idea. if it comes to fruition i'd be super impressed
Jun 11 2015 6:38PM
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jakeordie
Posts: 654 - Karma: 3,242
The lack of a mounting standard, so if you get new skis mounted and don't like them they're not worth much to anyone else :(
Jun 11 2015 6:57PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043
Titsandwich11yeah i should have elaborated on that part.. even if companies all agreed on a standard flex rating (and idk enough to even know if that's plausible), there are a lot of other variables. but it'd be a start

but that system being tried on this site is a great, ambitious idea. if it comes to fruition i'd be super impressed

I guess te best way would be if all brands used the same flex testing machines. I know most brands have some testing but I think I many cases they may be custom built. Perhaps someone in the ski building world can elaborate more.

Hopefully you you will see big changes in the review system but one of the best ways everyone can help is by adding your own reviews. The more data in the system te more useful it becomes. So even if you just review using the sliders it all helps and will help build a bigger and better system.
Jun 11 2015 9:07PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5206 - Karma: 20,187
jakeordieThe lack of a mounting standard, so if you get new skis mounted and don't like them they're not worth much to anyone else :(


this, really wish companies would figure out a way to do this but bindings are all so different it would never work
Jun 11 2015 9:57PM
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jpastor
Posts: 431 - Karma: 848
So what if there was a site or program where you plug in certain detailed variables and a list of skis with detailed reviews comes up. You then click on the ski you want and it then gives a list of suppliers.

Would that stream line the system
Jun 11 2015 11:23PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
tomPietrowskiI guess te best way would be if all brands used the same flex testing machines. I know most brands have some testing but I think I many cases they may be custom built. Perhaps someone in the ski building world can elaborate more.

Hopefully you you will see big changes in the review system but one of the best ways everyone can help is by adding your own reviews. The more data in the system te more useful it becomes. So even if you just review using the sliders it all helps and will help build a bigger and better system.


there is an ISO norm for flex testing skis and all major manufactures test fore, aft and bulk (tip & tail supported) stiffness. Unfortunately, most see it as letting out too much information to give it in lb/in or N/cm, so you'll likely never see that. Alternatively, if a 3rd party review system got a hold of the ISO norm (like $80 for a PDF) and made a crude test machine, it wouldn't be hard to provide that information.
Jun 12 2015 10:22AM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043
loganimlachthere is an ISO norm for flex testing skis and all major manufactures test fore, aft and bulk (tip & tail supported) stiffness. Unfortunately, most see it as letting out too much information to give it in lb/in or N/cm, so you'll likely never see that. Alternatively, if a 3rd party review system got a hold of the ISO norm (like $80 for a PDF) and made a crude test machine, it wouldn't be hard to provide that information.

Interesting
Jun 12 2015 1:07PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 36697 - Karma: 110,722
actually getting information about skis and just gear in general. call me a gaper, but I actually do enjoy going into a ski shop with employees that actually know what they are selling, and aren't there for the free skiing benefits and to gouge tourists and their wallets. I don't expect you to know every little piece of information regarding skiing, but don't make it like its pulling teeth when I ask you questions about stuff.
Jun 12 2015 2:45PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,182
DeebieSkeebiesactually getting information about skis and just gear in general. call me a gaper, but I actually do enjoy going into a ski shop with employees that actually know what they are selling, and aren't there for the free skiing benefits and to gouge tourists and their wallets. I don't expect you to know every little piece of information regarding skiing, but don't make it like its pulling teeth when I ask you questions about stuff.


I find employees will just try to sell you the biggest bullshit and just rehash bullshit from the company themselves. (butter zone, fatty bases, elf shoe technology). It doesn't take that long to learn about different cores and construction and different bases and you'll have a much better ski after researching it yourself rather than listening to your average joe who think rocker and reverse chamber are two different things.
Jun 12 2015 2:57PM
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jpastor
Posts: 431 - Karma: 848
S.J.WI find employees will just try to sell you the biggest bullshit and just rehash bullshit from the company themselves. (butter zone, fatty bases, elf shoe technology). It doesn't take that long to learn about different cores and construction and different bases and you'll have a much better ski after researching it yourself rather than listening to your average joe who think rocker and reverse chamber are two different things.



It all depends on the shop though. I have found that the younger guys that work in shops are more in tune than some old dude. Younger people are popping up in shops more and more and these old guys just can't hang with all the knew technology.

So it depends on the shop. But yes I guess you are right they just spit nonsense and buzzwords at your until you buy.
Jun 12 2015 3:13PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043
S.J.Wn listening to your average joe who think rocker and reverse chamber are two different things.


They are different. You can have rocker on a cambered ski but you would not have camber on a full reverse camber ski so they are actually different. Maybe listen to some shop employees :)
Jun 12 2015 5:40PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,182
tomPietrowskiThey are different. You can have rocker on a cambered ski but you would not have camber on a full reverse camber ski so they are actually different. Maybe listen to some shop employees :)


I was referring to full reverse chamber and full rocker, not a mix of the two. I can see your confusion with that statement.
Jun 12 2015 8:29PM
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JimmyGreen
Posts: 96 - Karma: 2,287
Skis these days travel way too fast for my liking and often make me ski like shit
Jun 12 2015 8:31PM
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sbarlett
Posts: 882 - Karma: 4,255
I hate how I cant easily purchase skis without my parents knowing
Jun 12 2015 10:36PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,182
The referenced post has been removed.


well sometimes real life is shit. I wanted a pair of Candides 1.0 but I wasn't sure on the flex. Everything about the ski was perfect for my liking with construction,edges, width but I wasn't going to buy them until I flexed them. But no shop around me stocked them. Candides 1 may be the perfect ski for me but I will never know because no shop around me has them.
Jun 13 2015 12:57AM
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jpastor
Posts: 431 - Karma: 848
So if you were to buy skis on line, what things would you guys want to see that would make it easier. From what im seeing is flex and a solid review that you can trust.
Jun 13 2015 9:49AM
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Zurg
Posts: 1486 - Karma: 4,701
I didn't read anything above, but I wish they had a universal sizing and a flex pattern. This would eliminate all my problems with buying skis online.
Jun 13 2015 12:05PM
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Toaster-Tony
Posts: 3531 - Karma: 5,850
It might just be because I'm a park rat, but every time I've ordered skis, I pretty much had a rough idea of the dimensions I wanted and just picked simething out and stuck with it. My only concern is durability, really.
Jun 13 2015 12:14PM
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jpastor
Posts: 431 - Karma: 848
another issue sometimes i have is that,some skis are labeled all mountain when in reality could be used for powder and vice versa
Jun 13 2015 9:37PM
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steezyclezy
Posts: 217 - Karma: 1,260
Their given length is often different to their actual one and the difference changes from company to company.

Also some ski shops (from experience in NZ and UK) seem to have an obsession with all mountain skis. I ski park and there is often very few park specific twins, but it is worse if you want a proper piste ski and you have to settle for a wider softer ski that is shit on the piste and not even that great in the soft stuff. What's worse is that they get marketed to beginner-intermediate skiers as the "perfect ski" because of their accessibility, yet they aren't even that easy or genuine to ski on.
Jun 14 2015 3:16AM
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TRIKD
Posts: 67 - Karma: -3
It's being done.... SFI
http://www.friflyt.no/Ski/Verdens-grundigste-skitest

loganimlachthere is an ISO norm for flex testing skis and all major manufactures test fore, aft and bulk (tip & tail supported) stiffness. Unfortunately, most see it as letting out too much information to give it in lb/in or N/cm, so you'll likely never see that. Alternatively, if a 3rd party review system got a hold of the ISO norm (like $80 for a PDF) and made a crude test machine, it wouldn't be hard to provide that information.
Jun 14 2015 9:14AM
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.ZT.
Posts: 5679 - Karma: 2,792
Durability, it's hard to know for sure how durable or weak a ski is, and unfortunately, the way I ski makes me prone to fucking up my skis pretty quickly.
Jun 14 2015 9:00PM
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ghosthop
Posts: 631 - Karma: 1,027
availability to demo
Jun 14 2015 11:01PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 8913 - Karma: 57,407
The referenced post has been removed.


yeah that's a great idea man. because we all live next to a shop with a comprehensive inventory of every ski in the industry. it's all so clear now, thanks
Jun 15 2015 10:59AM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
TRIKDIt's being done.... SFI
http://www.friflyt.no/Ski/Verdens-grundigste-skitest


that's sick! i just wish it was in a more accessible format for everyone, possibly in some other languages too.
Jun 15 2015 3:17PM
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stinky_cheese
Posts: 1215 - Karma: 5,118
i hate how sizing between companies is so different. i have 184 4frnt devastators and they are shorter than my friends 179 K2 shredditor 112s
Jun 17 2015 2:24PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
S.J.Wwell sometimes real life is shit. I wanted a pair of Candides 1.0 but I wasn't sure on the flex. Everything about the ski was perfect for my liking with construction,edges, width but I wasn't going to buy them until I flexed them. But no shop around me stocked them. Candides 1 may be the perfect ski for me but I will never know because no shop around me has them.


Hand flexing a ski still isn't that accurate. Only time I think a Hand flex is accurate is when the ski is a noodle, and even then it's not accurate.
Jun 17 2015 5:52PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 8913 - Karma: 57,407
The referenced post has been removed.


haha yeah dude where i live now, i'll be lucky to see more than 3 or 4 brands and most of those will be carvers. which is understandable from a shop's point of view i guess but it makes physically shopping around a no go
Jun 18 2015 10:43AM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
.lenconHand flexing a ski still isn't that accurate. Only time I think a Hand flex is accurate is when the ski is a noodle, and even then it's not accurate.


It gives you a benchmark though. So if you combine that with reviews you can gauge how other skis weigh up in comparison.
Jun 18 2015 11:39AM
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