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-emile-are we adding letters everyday ? jesus christ..
any way, people need to respect the LGBTQA4ASKFJNAS,D,W;EFKWLKDAJSFNDKJw.lnmds,mn2b3r 1;o community
What's so bad about adding representation for people who don't fall into certain categories? Yes, it gets confusing when one day it's LGBT, then it's LGBTA, then it's LGBTAQ, then it's LGBTAQP, but each letter represents a certain aspect of the community which each feel the need to be represented.
Take Pansexual for example (the sexual attraction to any gender identity) in the past you could dismiss it as being Bi-sexual, but there are bisexuals who wouldn't be attracted to trans and those who would, so the community created the pansexual category.
i have nothing against gays, couldn't care less about what they do, but trans is a different thing.
my personal opinion is that its a mental health issue. if a 65 year old man thought he was a 10 year old boy and wanted to be treated as such, he would be put into a psych ward.
what is the difference then between a 65 year old man thinking he is a female. that thinking quite obviously starts in the brain, ergo mental health issue.
at the end of the day, if you are born a male, your sex will always be male. you can try and chop and change that as much as you want, you might call yourself a transfemale, but you will never be a female.
There's a difference between physical gender and gender identification. Look it up.
There are plenty of gays who don't come out of the closet for years and years and years... does that make them not gay for the previous however-long just because they didn't go public? I mean, It's been pretty obvious that Jenner has been heading down this path for a long time, anyway... hence the Family Guy clip - which even 6 years ago was old-hat. Jenner has been doing this longer than Michael Jackson was turning white. Who cares if he's 65 and finally feels comfortable coming out now...
2015 is a lot more tolerable about this sort of thing than 1985, 1995, or even 2005... so I don't blame him for waiting until now, whatsoever. We're finally getting to a point in our culture where queer tolerance is becoming mainstream enough where it's not considered weird or gross or confusing anymore. That's why this is such a big deal - because Jenner is a relatively household name who's gone down this path, and it's another step in the right direction for general acceptance of transexuals in society.
As for the Ashe award.. honestly, who cares if it went to Jenner over the Galloway dude or whoever else probably deserved it... Truth be told, they all deserved it... Hell, in that light, Stephen Hawking probably deserves it every year until the day he dies, because that dude can formulate space-time quantum equations in his friggin head better than we can remember what we need from the grocery store, all while having been confined to a wheelchair for half a century and having to speak using a 1984 Macintosh computer voice.
Instead of causing a fuss over the Bruce Jenner thing... we should be making a fuss over that nimrod Huckabee who has a creepy interest in spying on underaged children...
skiforce1Now you're just trying to push buttons there buddy
ok if Bruce is now a women then this guy is really a lizard.
your move.
Again. Physical modification does not have anything to do with gender identification. Gain some perspective.
-emile-this is not hate nor being sarcastic, it's a genuine question.
say that guy really thinks he's a lizzard in his mind, would you say he's a lizzard ?
No. He's a Homo sapiens. In the same phylum as lizards but that's as close as it gets.
Same goes for Jenner. He has XY chromosomes. Nothing can change that. XY = male. XX = female. He is a male and that cannot change no matter how many bodily mutilations you do.
VinnieFNo. He's a Homo sapiens. In the same phylum as lizards but that's as close as it gets.
Same goes for Jenner. He has XY chromosomes. Nothing can change that. XY = male. XX = female. He is a male and that cannot change no matter how many bodily mutilations you do.
VinnieFNo. He's a Homo sapiens. In the same phylum as lizards but that's as close as it gets.
Same goes for Jenner. He has XY chromosomes. Nothing can change that. XY = male. XX = female. He is a male and that cannot change no matter how many bodily mutilations you do.
You know there are females out there with XY chromosomes, do you not?
There's a gene on chromosome 17 that, if mutated, it can turn off the 'maleness' and someone with XY could come out of the womb as female, and even have ovaries that work.
There are guys who come out with vaginas. There are women who come out with dicks. This whole idea that there's a black and white thing going on is fucking jokes haha.
-emile-this is not hate nor being sarcastic, it's a genuine question.
say that guy really thinks he's a lizzard in his mind, would you say he's a lizzard ?
Since when does an organism's sex determine the species?
What you're saying can basically be that if a human comes out as a chick with a dick, they must also be a snail, since Snails have both sex organs... Or even Trees, or plants, since same thing goes there, as well.
I'd consider people who think there's an invisible old man who controls everything to be way crazier than anyone with personal conflicts between their orientation or gender identification... One has evidence. The other has "faith".
DingoSeanSince when does an organism's sex determine the species?
What you're saying can basically be that if a human comes out as a chick with a dick, they must also be a snail, since Snails have both sex organs... Or even Trees, or plants, since same thing goes there, as well.
I'd consider people who think there's an invisible old man who controls everything to be way crazier than anyone with personal conflicts between their orientation or gender identification... One has evidence. The other has "faith".
Ok, so let me get this straight...
guy who thinks he's a woman is more sane than guy who believes in god?
if jenner wants to be called a woman, cool, we can indulge, don't give a fuck, but seriously if she ACTUALLY believes she IS a woman, thats all kinds of wrong
.lenconSo if I add boobs can I keep my blue name but be able to go through lady gabber?
That's basically the NS version of Caitlyn
No. Boobs do not make you a woman any more than getting a leopard print tattoo would make you a fierce jungle cat from Africa.
plyswthsqrrlsOk, so let me get this straight...
guy who thinks he's a woman is more sane than guy who believes in god?
if jenner wants to be called a woman, cool, we can indulge, don't give a fuck, but seriously if she ACTUALLY believes she IS a woman, thats all kinds of wrong
So... you feel like you're a man right? You Identify as a man? Imagine if you felt like that, but also had a vagina... That's the thing that trans people go through. Just because it's not the 'norm' that you know of doesn't mean it's crazytalk. It's much in the same realm as guys being attracted to dudes, and girls being attracted to girls, sexually...
It's an identity, and there's plenty of proof in the pudding if you understand the science behind it.
DingoSeanSo... you feel like you're a man right? You Identify as a man? Imagine if you felt like that, but also had a vagina... That's the thing that trans people go through. Just because it's not the 'norm' that you know of doesn't mean it's crazytalk. It's much in the same realm as guys being attracted to dudes, and girls being attracted to girls, sexually...
It's an identity, and there's plenty of proof in the pudding if you understand the science behind it.[/QUOTESo, you feel like you talked to people today. You had a conversation. Now imagine if you thought that happened, but it never really did. That's the thing that schizophrenic people go through. Just because it's not the 'norm' that you know of doesn't mean it's crazy talk...
Oh, fuck wait, it is crazy talk - because it is a mental disorder. Much the same as transgender people. Your mind doesn't match the physical realities.
So you have boy parts but want to be a girl. That's cool and all, and you do you, but it is still a mental disorder.
DingoSeanNo. Boobs do not make you a woman any more than getting a leopard print tattoo would make you a fierce jungle cat from Africa.
So... you feel like you're a man right? You Identify as a man? Imagine if you felt like that, but also had a vagina... That's the thing that trans people go through. Just because it's not the 'norm' that you know of doesn't mean it's crazytalk. It's much in the same realm as guys being attracted to dudes, and girls being attracted to girls, sexually...
It's an identity, and there's plenty of proof in the pudding if you understand the science behind it.
Not really, I mean even if I identified as a female I would steal know that genetically, physically, I am a male. It sounds to me that she doesn't even recognize that
I get that there is a "difference" between gender identity and a person's sex, but one doesn't influence the other. You can identify as a woman, but you still ARE a man, and if you can't even recognize that as being true, then there is some grounds for assuming you may have some sort of psychological / neurological problems
What annoys me is that we (media) makes a big deal about it. Frankly I think Bruce wanted the attention a little bit because that's how he is.
But it annoys me that we choose to bring all this pointless hate because we give some gender confused person a magazine cover photo and some news coverage.
cobra_commanderSo, you feel like you talked to people today. You had a conversation. Now imagine if you thought that happened, but it never really did. That's the thing that schizophrenic people go through. Just because it's not the 'norm' that you know of doesn't mean it's crazy talk...
Oh, fuck wait, it is crazy talk - because it is a mental disorder. Much the same as transgender people. Your mind doesn't match the physical realities.
So you have boy parts but want to be a girl. That's cool and all, and you do you, but it is still a mental disorder.
"A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.
According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."-American Psychological Association
roddy116What annoys me is that we (media) makes a big deal about it. Frankly I think Bruce wanted the attention a little bit because that's how he is.
But it annoys me that we choose to bring all this pointless hate because we give some gender confused person a magazine cover photo and some news coverage.
True. Even saying he doesn't deserve attention is giving him the attention he doesn't deserve.
I'm pledging to no longer post anything on this thread because it is just feeding the fire. Peace out homies, you know where I stand on this.
Also I'll say it. It's totally fucked up that we have to be so up tight in a simple label that at the end of the day really just means what gender you were legally born into. That's all it really is.
Bring the hate on but you all know that all this transgender/ gender confusion is in reality pointless.
roddy116What annoys me is that we (media) makes a big deal about it. Frankly I think Bruce wanted the attention a little bit because that's how he is.
But it annoys me that we choose to bring all this pointless hate because we give some gender confused person a magazine cover photo and some news coverage.
I wouldn't call Jenner Gender confused anymore.. That's the whole point of this display.
...and I do have some agreement that there is some attention whoring going on (because kardashians) but even so, people had the same reactions 10-15 years ago when celebrities started coming out as gay because they finally felt comfortable with things.
DingoSeanYou know there are females out there with XY chromosomes, do you not?
There's a gene on chromosome 17 that, if mutated, it can turn off the 'maleness' and someone with XY could come out of the womb as female, and even have ovaries that work.
There are guys who come out with vaginas. There are women who come out with dicks. This whole idea that there's a black and white thing going on is fucking jokes haha.
The females out there with XY still carry the genetic information from an X chromosome within a Y chromosome. So it's functionally still XX and is still a female. Same goes for males with XX.
There are also people with XXYY or XXXX, although incredibly rare.
Point being is that Jenner is still carrying XY chromosomes. Regardless of what he thinks he is or what modifications have been done to his body he is still genetically a male.
Now as anybody who's taken even rudimentary taxonomy knows, classifying based on phenotypes can be wildly inaccurate. Using genetics is far superior. Classifying the sex of an organism on their genetic makeup (ie the genes they currently have which before birth drove development into either male or female) would be biologically more correct than basing the sex of an organism off modifications done later in life.
If you're a biologist and you're studying a species of bird that both male and female are identical in every way except in their sex organs and their genes and you find a specimen that inexplicably had its sex organs removed, would you then classify it as not having a sex? No. If you then for some sick reason removed the male parts from another bird and stitched them on are they now a male? No. If you did a genetic analysis and found that they were ZW, would you conclude that they're in fact female regardless that you stitched male parts onto it? Yes.
DingoSeanYou know there are females out there with XY chromosomes, do you not?
There's a gene on chromosome 17 that, if mutated, it can turn off the 'maleness' and someone with XY could come out of the womb as female, and even have ovaries that work.
There are guys who come out with vaginas. There are women who come out with dicks. This whole idea that there's a black and white thing going on is fucking jokes haha.
can you not read ?
I didn't link sex and species at all.......
All I'm saying is that Bruce Jenner believes in his mind that he is a female, fine, but the fact remains that he isn't.
just like lizard boy can believe he is a lizard even though he isn't.
the question was : if Bruce Jenner says that he associates as and truly believes he is a female, you have no problem reffering to him as a 'she' and as a female, but what about someone who believes he isn't human, like lizard guy.
VinnieFThe females out there with XY still carry the genetic information from an X chromosome within a Y chromosome. So it's functionally still XX and is still a female. Same goes for males with XX.
There are also people with XXYY or XXXX, although incredibly rare.
Point being is that Jenner is still carrying XY chromosomes. Regardless of what he thinks he is or what modifications have been done to his body he is still genetically a male.
Now as anybody who's taken even rudimentary taxonomy knows, classifying based on phenotypes can be wildly inaccurate. Using genetics is far superior. Classifying the sex of an organism on their genetic makeup (ie the genes they currently have which before birth drove development into either male or female) would be biologically more correct than basing the sex of an organism off modifications done later in life.
If you're a biologist and you're studying a species of bird that both male and female are identical in every way except in their sex organs and their genes and you find a specimen that inexplicably had its sex organs removed, would you then classify it as not having a sex? No. If you then for some sick reason removed the male parts from another bird and stitched them on are they now a male? No. If you did a genetic analysis and found that they were ZW, would you conclude that they're in fact female regardless that you stitched male parts onto it? Yes.
If someone mistook you for a girl for whatever reason you'd get offended. This is exactly what it's like when someone calls a transgender by their sex and not their chosen gender identity.
S.J.WIf someone mistook you for a girl for whatever reason you'd get offended. This is exactly what it's like when someone calls a transgender by their sex and not their chosen gender identity.
"if someone mistook you for a lizard you'd get offended. It's exactly what the lizard guy feels like when he gets mistaken for a human"
All I'm saying is that Bruce Jenner believes in his mind that he is a female, fine, but the fact remains that he isn't.
just like lizard boy can believe he is a lizard even though he isn't.
the question was : if Bruce Jenner says that he associates as and truly believes he is a female, you have no problem reffering to him as a 'she' and as a female, but what about someone who believes he isn't human, like lizard guy.
Humans can be Male, Female, transgender, whatever... these are things humans can be.
Humans cannot be lizards, or any other reptile. They can also not be Lions. Or Birds. Or flying sex snakes.
This logic is pretty easy to sort out, friend.
As for lizard-man, that dude is a performer... he has those tattoos because that's his schtick.. he's not trying to identify as another species. If someone else actually thought they were another species, they might be hypnotized or something, because it's sorta difficult to be a fish if you can't breathe underwater...
DingoSeanHumans can be Male, Female, transgender, whatever... these are things humans can be.
Humans cannot be lizards, or any other reptile. They can also not be Lions. Or Birds. Or flying sex snakes.
This logic is pretty easy to sort out, friend.
As for lizard-man, that dude is a performer... he has those tattoos because that's his schtick.. he's not trying to identify as another species. If someone else actually thought they were another species, they might be hypnotized or something, because it's sorta difficult to be a fish if you can't breathe underwater...
Bruce is a performer as well. How many shows has he been on now 3 ? I see no difference between lizard man and Bruce they both did it to show off and make money.
skiforce1Bruce is a performer as well. How many shows has he been on now 3 ? I see no difference between lizard man and Bruce they both did it to show off and make money.
Haha okay, if that's your opinion of Bruce/Caitlyn fine... I'll go ahead and give benefit of the doubt myself... but your personal opinion in that case is your own and that's fine.
however... as far as somebody who's trans coming out and making a sex change, it's certainly not crazyness or 'wrong' as it's been stated before in this thread.
DingoSeanHaha okay, if that's your opinion of Bruce/Caitlyn fine... I'll go ahead and give benefit of the doubt myself... but your personal opinion in that case is your own and that's fine.
however... as far as somebody who's trans coming out and making a sex change, it's certainly not crazyness or 'wrong' as it's been stated before in this thread.
I think it's weird. 'He' and 'she' may not be biologically linked to anything, but I believe it is. If you're a male, you're a he. Filed under a mental problem too. Nothing will change my opinion.
Lol it's funny because now dingo and such say that lizard boy can not identify as a lizard because it's a species difference, but that's exactly what people would have said a century ago about changing your gender.
Give it a couple decades and that will probably a thing to. Fuck.
But honestly society is so fucked up that we've gotten to the point were we put our money and time towards these stupid social movements (manspreading, transabled) and not towards issues like the fact that 14% of the worlds population is starving.
But hey we need to fight for poor Caitlyn and her millions that she's making!!!!!!
i dont understand why people go through with it though, is it that distressing being considered a guy if you feel like a girl? Like would it not be more distressing having to go through surgery and then worrying what people thought of you. Would it not just be easier being gay?
It's a fact... and you're sooo sure that that's exactly what this is all about.
...I'll give you that it's suspicious considering the family involved, but cmon dude. It's not like Bruce/Caitlyn went from macho-man yesterday to full on ladytime today. It's been years ongoing of what's pretty obviously been a change in the works.
What you're essentially saying is the same as claiming some gay celebrity only went gay for the media attention... and this is even more hardcore than that considering that Bruce had been straight up growing boobs and going through hormone treatment for a while leading up to this.
DingoSeanYou know there are females out there with XY chromosomes, do you not?
There's a gene on chromosome 17 that, if mutated, it can turn off the 'maleness' and someone with XY could come out of the womb as female, and even have ovaries that work.
There are guys who come out with vaginas. There are women who come out with dicks. This whole idea that there's a black and white thing going on is fucking jokes haha.
Right this does exist, and that is my idea of what "transgendered" is. In Bruclyn's case (as far as I know) had only male parts, was one of the greatest Olympic male athletes the US has ever had, fathered 6 children.
It really doesn't matter how much surgery he has, he is a man, he will never be able to carry a child, he doesn't have ovaries, he can not produce eggs, he can not produce milk from his tits.
He was also quoted saying that "he still lets his kids call him dad, for now"...sorry dude, you will always be their dad, you can't honestly believe your kids will start calling you "mom" just because you hacked your ding-a-ling off and got some bolt ons.
In willing to bet that anyone who disavows the legitimacy of individuals who identify as trans or who have even an inkling of doubt about their gender identity have opinions predicated on nothing but nonsense. It's truly hard to find empathy for concepts foriegn to us; NS reaches a very niche group of people into a hobby not known for having many lgbt athletes so not understanding is understandable :). There's a bevvy of things that some of us will never ever experience firsthand and that's beyond okay, but don't use experiences that you're lacking to insinuate others are just putting on a show or something. Accredited psychologists, sociologists, therapists and so on have researched gender dysmorphia, it's real, their are texts and studies and websites laden with information. At the core though this will always be about empathy, seeing another human and recognizing their feelings as being as justified and meaningful as yours. I know that if many of you guys had dear trans friends you'd find it pretty damn hard to dissavow them as attention seeking or whatever stupid label you choose to put on them.
(P.S. people bitching about the Arthur Ashe thing are proof that no one watches or cares about the espys. That award is named after an athlete who died of HIV after heart surgery and used his time alive to spread awareness of the dangers of HIV as not merely a gay disease, other recipients included coaches who fought for desegregation and athletes who in general were involved with social activism.)
I have nothing against people hacking their dick off and throwing on some lady parts. if a dude wants to play dress up and look pretty thats ok with me. do whatever weird shit you want. but what does bother me is that this is now going to become something us normal, non-dick-hacking people are going to be pressured to accept into our society like its normal. If you look at some trans chick with a giant adams apple in the wrong way, we're going to be shunned for not being accepting, if we call Bruce a man, we'll be labeled, etc..
Bruce going through however much of his life wanting to be a woman is purely a luxury. His 1st world life is so damn comfortable and boring that he has the luxury to cut his dick off and pretend to be a woman. Sorry if i dont feel bad for his "suffering" while other people who dont have the luxury to play dress up are starving and fearing death every day. He's not brave in any way, he's a desperate celebrity in some stupid search for significance. i dont have a problem with it. but im not going to put any effort into integrating him or any other trans into society any more than they are.
you can do whatever you want with your body but a man pretending to be a woman by swapping genitals will never be normal, and we shouldnt act like it is. I'm not saying lets treat them poorly or like they're any less than someone else, but they made a significant physical change to themselves that is completely abnormal, so why treat their change like its anything other than what it is?
DingoSeanHumans can be Male, Female, transgender, whatever... these are things humans can be.
Humans cannot be lizards, or any other reptile. They can also not be Lions. Or Birds. Or flying sex snakes.
This logic is pretty easy to sort out, friend.
As for lizard-man, that dude is a performer... he has those tattoos because that's his schtick.. he's not trying to identify as another species. If someone else actually thought they were another species, they might be hypnotized or something, because it's sorta difficult to be a fish if you can't breathe underwater...
well yeah, they can be male or female, but if you're born as one you aren't the other.
-emile-well yeah, they can be male or female, but if you're born as one you aren't the other.
Stop confusing sex with gender.It's not that hard to understand that sex and gender are two different things. Identifying as a woman isn't saying that you've got XX chromosomes, it's saying you identify as the other GENDER.
S.J.WStop confusing sex with gender.It's not that hard to understand that sex and gender are two different things. Identifying as a woman isn't saying that you've got XX chromosomes, it's saying you identify as the other GENDER.
religion is also a social construct. Does that mean we should just get rid of religion? What about money? There's nothing biologically intrinsic about money, but pretty much every humans life revolves around it.
J.D.I just despise so many of you people. As in you're just awful excuses for human beings. Fuck. Why did I open this thread.
Quoting for emphasis.
It's amazing how many of you can still be so ignorant/bigoted. Grow the fuck up. Nobody is asking you to be friends with anyone in the LGBT community, just that you accept them for who they are. If that's asking too much, then you can fuck right off and move to Russia where you can be part of an anti-LGBT society.
I was hearing on the radio there's a group of people in BC trying to get the government to take gender designation off driver's licenses because it's insensitive to people who are transexual. What a fucking joke some people are.
It's amazing how many of you can still be so ignorant/bigoted. Grow the fuck up. Nobody is asking you to be friends with anyone in the LGBT community, just that you accept them for who they are.
So I have to accept Caitlyn Jenner because Bruce Jenner couldn't accept Bruce Jenner? cool.
I'm still waiting For an Athlete who is not quite Good enough for the olympic team to come out as being a 'women' and the cat fight that would follow between all the various 'accpetance' crowds. Feminists vs LGBTALPHAGBETSOUP special interest groups.
Sorry, but if you can't accept who you are, that's fucked up. Go ahead, I don't really care that someone decided to self mutilate themselves - their life - not mine; but it's still all kinds of fucked up.
It's amazing how many of you can still be so ignorant/bigoted. Grow the fuck up. Nobody is asking you to be friends with anyone in the LGBT community, just that you accept them for who they are.
So I have to accept Caitlyn Jenner because Bruce Jenner couldn't accept Bruce Jenner? cool.
I'm still waiting For an Athlete who is not quite Good enough for the olympic team to come out as being a 'women' and the cat fight that would follow between all the various 'accpetance' crowds. Feminists vs LGBTALPHAGBETSOUP special interest groups.
Sorry, but if you can't accept who you are, that's fucked up. Go ahead, I don't really care that someone decided to self mutilate themselves - their life - not mine; but it's still all kinds of fucked up.
All I'm saying is that Bruce Jenner believes in his mind that he is a female, fine, but the fact remains that he isn't.
just like lizard boy can believe he is a lizard even though he isn't.
the question was : if Bruce Jenner says that he associates as and truly believes he is a female, you have no problem reffering to him as a 'she' and as a female, but what about someone who believes he isn't human, like lizard guy.
It's a shame there's already a "L" in the lgbtwgfhdksjshd shit maybe we should add a "z" so lizards can be included in the increasingly PC and inclusive acronym
VinnieFI was hearing on the radio there's a group of people in BC trying to get the government to take gender designation off driver's licenses because it's insensitive to people who are transexual. What a fucking joke some people are.
yeah fuck the people who just want to feel accepted and who they feel like they are.
